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Discussion Elizabeth

How did Elizabeth figure out that she and Meliodas were cursed?


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Commanderaxe

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How does jack shit refer to Elizabeth when:

-She already embarrassed the Demon King individually.

-Helped Meliodas with a combo attack

-Jebaited the DK and allowed Merlin a free hit

-Is holding Gelda.
You mean a demon king weaker than base Mel? lel. A combo attack he didnt really need assist with. And using herself as bait is now a plus? Face it man, Elizabeth has been useless af this entire battle
 

OtakuFreak

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You mean a demon king weaker than base Mel?
Where did you conclude this idea from?

lel. A combo attack she didnt really need assist with. And using herself as bait is now a plus? Face it man, Elizabeth has been useless af this entire battle
Still a combo attack.

If Elizabeth is useless then what about Merlin, Diane, King, Ban etc? lol they've done even less
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Guys, can you help me please. I've seen something very suspicious in the anime, but there is no thread suitable enough to talk about lol. I post it here merely because it's about Elizabeth.
Do you have any idea why Elizabeth in the ending is portrayed with the dark wings?
I mean yeah it's Meliodas who turns into those black wing-like projectiles, but THERE ARE EXACTLY FOUR OF THEM AS WE EXPECT FROM ELI. Of course I would not suspect anything if the next couple to be shown weren't Ban and Elaine. As we see in the ending, Ban turns into colorful wings that match those of Elaine's. :hmm
So, are those four black projectiles indicators of Mel's demonic side, or they are probably foreshadowing that ELI ISN'T AS INNOCENT AS SHE PRETENDS TO BE. :hmm
Ever since the introduction of Bloodstained Eli and beginning of Mael's weird coward looking behaviour, the thought of a devilish plot led by SD has never left my mind. Afterall, SD should supposeldy be the strongest mindfucker in goddess realm.
I might be overthinking things, but if that's another clever foreshadowing, I'd respect Nakaba even more.
I saw it as a reference to Elizabeth's sin, where she alligned herself with Meliodas, a demon (hence the Meliodas turning into demonic wings).
 

Commanderaxe

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Where did you conclude this idea from?



Still a combo attack.

If Elizabeth is useless then what about Merlin, Diane, King, Ban etc? lol they've done less
He was losing to Mel in base, or struggling, whichever I dont much care for checking.

A combo that still did very little and was just 1 attack throughout this entire battle, how are you even arguing this lol. Merlin, Diane, King, Ban? They all traded blows extensively with the DK throughout the past chapters, Merlin even helped shield Elizabeth, Diane stopped the DK from drawing power from the river which was a HUGE boost to the battle. Theres no debating everyone has contributed more than Liz, this is obvious
 

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Honestly, at this point I really think it’s pointless to compare characters now in terms of who’s stronger. I have given up because too many inconsistencies to make sense of things and I doubt Nakaba thinks as much as some here do. Nakaba introduces power scaling and then screwed it up. People here are trying real hard to form theories so things may make some sense, but each week Nakaba adds another variable that screws up the equation. Hell we might see a badass eight winged Elizabeth in ten chapters, and Nakaba probably wanted it that way, but how he got to that point is horrible.
 

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A combo that still did very little and was just 1 attack throughout this entire battle, how are you even arguing this lol. Merlin, Diane, King, Ban?
Don't change the subject lol

She still did something, regardless of how effective you think it is, which contradicts your entire argument of ''eliz useless zz''

They all traded blows extensively with the DK throughout the past chapters,
Who? ''Past chapters'' refers to DK Zeldris (I assume):

-Which means, Merlin has done jack shit besides 1/2 attacks (one from Elizabeth's bait)

-Ban has done what?

-King has done what?


Merlin even helped shield Elizabeth,
When?

Diane stopped the DK from drawing power from the river which was a HUGE boost to the battle. Theres no debating everyone has contributed more than Liz, this is obvious
Yet you completely ignore how Elizabeth's presence directly inhibits the Demon King's ability to use his magical ability since she'd just start healing the second he would activate it.

She hasn't had the most contribution in this fight, but the least?
 
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Commanderaxe

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Don't change the subject lol

She still did something, regardless of how effective you think it is, which contradicts your entire argument of ''eliz useless zz''



Who? ''Past chapters'' refers to DK Zeldris (I assume):

-Which means, Merlin has done jack shit besides 1/2 attacks (one from Elizabeth's bait)

-Ban has done what?

-King has done what?




When?



Yet you completely ignore how Elizabeth's presence directly inhibits the Demon King's ability to use his magical ability since she'd just start healing the second he would activate it.

She hasn't had the most contribution in this fight, but the least?
She did the least. Ban stopped DK from assaulting Escanor and kept him at bay, same with King. Merlin actually helped to shield Elizabeth and the team in chapter 323. Ah right her presence prevents him using magical ability, yet what did he just do in recent chapters that requires the entire team to get involved....right a magical ability.
She is not only the weakest, but has contributed the least
 

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Ah right her presence prevents him using magical ability, yet what did he just do in recent chapters that requires the entire team to get involved....right a magical ability.
She is not only the weakest, but has contributed the least
I was talking about ''The Ruler'' and not any magical ability in general....

lol
 

Commanderaxe

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I was talking about ''The Ruler'' and not any magical ability in general....

lol
You didnt specify, regardless her impact has been far lower than the others, thats indisputable. She's more of a support type, and the whole bloody Eli thing was just some random shit Nakaba threw in to vaguely satisfy Elizabeth fans
 

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You didnt specify, regardless her impact has been far lower than the others, thats indisputable. She's more of a support type, and the whole bloody Eli thin
Your opinion isn't fact.

She's more of a support type, and the whole bloody Eli thing was just some random shit Nakaba threw in to vaguely satisfy Elizabeth fans
Yet it was implied through flashbacks and common sense that Elizabeth had a past of fighting, just like Meliodas.

The only people who think it was random are those who never paid attention to her character.
 

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Your opinion isn't fact.



Yet it was implied through flashbacks and common sense that Elizabeth had a past of fighting, just like Meliodas.

The only people who think it was random are those who never paid attention to her character.

She hasn't fought like the others, so her ability has been support like, and even that has been minimal. That's a fact

Well show me the scans of her fighting continuously on the level of her fellow sins. She's been stated to be strong through vague statements about her past, but we've never seen her perform such statements. We know she's somewhere on the "level" of her fellow AA and Mel, but which Mel? 142k Mel? Weaker? Either way her showing has been very unimpressive
 

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We know she's somewhere on the "level" of her fellow AA and Mel, but which Mel? 142k Mel? Weaker? Either way her showing has been very unimpressive
Given her wings, she's on the same level as Ludoshel, Base Mael & Prime Mel.
 

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Given her wings, she's on the same level as Ludoshel, Base Mael & Prime Mel.
Prime Mel was weaker than a 142k Mel according to Merlin so....
 

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Prime Mel was weaker than a 142k Mel according to Merlin so....
What gave this indication?

If Ludoshel is 201k then I'm pretty sure Mel is in the same area.
 

Commanderaxe

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What gave this indication?

If Ludoshel is 201k then I'm pretty sure Mel is in the same area.
But Mel during his time as leader of the 10 commandments was weaker than 142k according to Merlin, so prob another Nakaba mishap or Ludo was weaker back then. Idk the manga's shitty these day
 

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Elizabeth God-tier mode when?
Tbh it would not be surprising. If this was a better manga Nakaba would take steps to justify her getting to that level. With Meliodas Commandment exposure would've made total sense as the sole explanation of why Meliodas managed to surpass his old limits. A similar principle got set up in the past when Dreyfus got Full Size as a result of being possessed by Fraudrin. It would also be practically a logical necessity for Meliodas to go 10C DK mode in the first place. AKA his base PL gets boosted when he tries to use all 10 or else he would just explode from trying to absorb so much power, and he turned out to be strong enough to handle the transformation.

Elizabeth could have done similar things with Graces but oh well, at this point the only handwave I could see Nakaba using would be her slowly getting stronger as she fights SD. Something like, she is exposed to 600K+ PL Ark magic from SD and is able to absorb it to some extent, and then undergoes some sort of transformation to a higher level. And her reason for having the potential to reach that level on her own would be due to being her daughter, same with how Meliodas's overpowered potential would be at least partially due to being the son of the DK. If Nakaba was using the reasonable commandments-boost explanation then this wouldn't really work logically, but if Meliodas gets the asspull power up based on pure inner potential, it would make sense for her to get it too.

And should Nakaba do a SD+DK teamup scenario with each at full power, it would seem pretty necessary for Elizabeth to get stronger in that way unless the Sins besides Melidoas can really handle the SD all by themselves.

I do think that besides all the power up business and so on, though, that Elizabeth's character and reaction to her current situation is really lacking. I mean, we're finally at the finale, but it seems like the characters don't feel much of anything. I get that she's not a hateful character like Meliodas is supposed to be, but she should say something or at least think something. Even a brief flashback here or there could really add a lot to this. But right now I can't feel much of anything from the conclusion of the narrative. Nobody seems scared of losing, nobody really has a drive to win, nobody thinks back to all they've lost on the way or everything they want to happen later. Even at previous moments when they thought it was all over like when they defeated DK-Meliodas, Meliodas and Elizabeth never even had a meaningful conversation. "Bloody Ellie" was thrown in as basically a random joke. Her past as a Goddess is non-existent and seems like it'll never be clarified at this rate while her past as a Human has been forgotten. She doesn't seem to have any meaningful bonds with Margaret and Veronica at least not to the point that they are touched on anymore. I would be fine with her memories as a Goddess just being way more prevalent in her mind if there was substance there, but there just isn't.

Nakaba's Elizabeth Narrative:
"Elizabeth wuz a gud girl, she wanted peace and equality, she loved Meliodas because....Reasons. I'll explain later. Conveniently, Meliodas just happened to be the son of the Demon King and the one person in position to change the war if she fell in love with him and got him to betray his clan. How did this power relationship tie into them falling in love? Did she fall in love unintentionally after first trying to persuade him to think differently during their many battles? Or did she fall in love first and think of the political goal of getting him on her side after the fact? Don't worry, I will explain later. Soon afterwards, Elizabeth went about trying to stop Ludociel from doing a big genocide. Later on, she and Meliodas were currrrsed with Immortality based powers. When exactly did that happen? Was it before the Big Seal of Doom happened or afterwards? Even though the timing and specifics of that are all very important in understanding exactly why the SD and DK teamed up and how this ties in with when Gowther's spell happened, don't worry. I'll. Explain. Later.(not)."

Basically Nakaba doesn't want to give Elizabeth any depth and it seems like this is the case because he thinks would contradict her pre-planned simplistic waifu personality lol.

Elizabeth's personality:
"Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!Meliodas-sama! Meliodas-sama!"(x100)

It's sad but it basically seems to be the case. RIP.
 

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-Just an Elizabeth rant, nothing special really-

Character wise:
For me personally, Elizabeth is an interesting character. At first when I watched Episode 1 of Season 1 I was like "oh another crybaby useless heroine what a surprise, she'll probably do nothing more than going Meliodas-sama all the time" but she gained my respect when she protected that kid (ahem) during the Baste Dungeon Arc, and she didn't even pass out until she took the bell from Ruin. To go to such lengths while not being powerful...I was truly in awe of her courage and her resolve. From then on, I started to really, really like her. She was second only to Meliodas at that time and I always looked forward to more of her moments. And then one finally came. Her awakening as the Apostle of the Goddesses during Hendy's fight. She peaked my interest right then. "What is that on her eye OMG and why does she have that?!" was what I thought. I was honestly disappointed that Season 1 gave no explanation, but I thought that Season 2 might give one.

Watching Season 2 she had very little defining moments...and again no explanation for her eye. The thing I did note was that Elizabeth had the symbol of Goddesses from Nerobasta. I did make the connection, as such she might be a reincarnation of a goddess because reincarnation had already been revealed to be a thing in the series with Liz (if I want to talk about her as Elizabeth, then I have to admit that she impressed me a lot as well, Elizabeth does have that charm which draws people towards her) and Ellie. Still I never expected the truth to be so...heartbreaking? Harsh?

I couldn't wait for another season so I immediately started the manga since the very beginning (having been told of some changes in the anime as such). When I got past the point of the anime story, I should have seen that coming, but I didn't really (cos I'm also stupid), but Elizabeth appeared as a goddess. Her ideals, her efforts for peace really moved me, as they did way back, so I felt really horrible when Ludo took advantage of Elizabeth's naivete in the field of pacifism, I mean it being her first time negotiating with little experience would of course fail horribly (judging from her demeanor and Ludo's praise that was some of the very first times she actually tried to negotiate otherwise she would just...kill?). I think Elizabeth really is the best when she's her pacifist nature. Even though with that being said I do not think her smirking at the DK and being called "Bloody Ellie" was bullshit (I admit it could have been done a lot better). In fact it does make sense to me. Overall, I love Elizabeth's character, seeing her grow from a timid girl going around in a heavy rusty armor to becoming an unofficial captain of the Seven Deadly Sins... she has to be equal to Meliodas in my character ranking (at the 3rd place).

Oh and, I'm a firm believer that the Supreme Deity loved her daughter as any mother would. Why? Because every goddess out there fanboys/fangirls the Supreme Deity a bit too much (unlike the Demon King whom has no ally left) meaning she is a wonderful ruler, it wouldn't be surprising if she was a wonderful mother as well. If the SD was in the Horn of Cernunnos, I think she would still be alive and just found another vessel because she was laughing like a maniac when Meliodas destroyed the Horn, no way she would if her dead end was coming. I personally really want to know more about her relationship with Elizabeth, since I've always looked forward to mother-daughter relationships (other than my ships of course lol).

Power wise:
At first I wasn't very convinced of Elizabeth's power. But the thing that did convince me was when she told Ludo to "STEP DOWN". I was like "oh she's very confident in what she can do even though the Indura are way stronger than the five Commandments she just threatened earlier...so perhaps her being strong isn't a joke". I still think her feat against the Indura is the most impressive she has done so far, not even humiliating the DK holds a candle. With her 8 wings she used for her "Let There Be Light" because of course a non-serious Indura Derieri trashed a Ludo who wasn't using his Grace (I don't see how he would be able to handle both the Indura with Flash though) but Elizabeth made the both Indura Derieri and Monspeet serious while not having a Grace either. I recognize Elizabeth wouldn't have been able to do anything while she used her power of 4 AA level wings so she went serious mode, which is far above the AA level (except maybe The One Mael). While against the DK she didn't even need to use her seriously full power, because it's understandable that the DK wasn't at his full strength so around that time Elizabeth was indeed stronger in her base.

When Mael called Elizabeth a warrior on the same level as Ludoshel and Meliodas, I wasn't really surprised. I already knew by Sariel's statement of how strong her Ark is (which apparently doesn't show mercy to high level demons which includes Meliodas) so I guess with that information alone I can say that Sariel/Tarmiel had seen/heard rumours of Elizabeth fighting against top level/fodder demon(s) which earned her the nickname of "Bloody Ellie". If she would have only been a support, they could never have made such statements.

So I want to know how as "Bloody Ellie" she managed to make Meliodas feel a world of pain while he made Mael retreat (I still think The One Mael is the strongest goddess). The only problem I have right now with Elizabeth is that she doesn't fight much. I mean I don't really mind Meliodas protecting her because I love it for my ship but she should show more moments because her fans are gritting their teeth (Mael is no better, like seriously what the heck is wrong with the Goddess Clan?! First Nerobasta bailed out then Tarmiel then Mael and now Elizabeth refuses to fight along with the SD refusing to ever even show her face!).

I love how her light magic is designed differently from the others. Like when she made the Holy War Pact with Ludo we could clearly see the sharp and straight light of Ludo but with Elizabeth it was more fiery and seemed like pure white blazing flames. Imo Supreme Deity also has the same design as Elizabeth's light magic because it seemed that way in Chapter 249.

I do think many incidents which happened against her was because she is in a human body, which is weaker than that of a goddess. It was implied in two different situations, one by Elizabeth herself in Chapter 233 and one by Meliodas in Chapter 310. So I forgive her for every screw up she had as a human.

Overall I'll say I find Elizabeth's Arkslaps impressive and I wanted to see her form the light blade she used against the Demon King and Supreme Deity once more even one time. I'm sure she can be deadly when she actually wants to fight but doesn't because she's restricted in action.
 

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Restricting Elizabeth to a human body is probably one of the worst decisions Nakaba did for her character.

Once she awakened her memories, she should've been able to return to her original body (or reform it like the AA) allowing her to use her full power and not be a damsel in distress.

But as she is cursed to a human body, she would be unable to fully reform her Goddess body and like the AA would be forced into a human body or begin to disappear.

That way she can use her full power, but not all the time, so she can't fix every situation she is in.
 

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Restricting Elizabeth to a human body is probably one of the worst decisions Nakaba did for her character.

Once she awakened her memories, she should've been able to return to her original body (or reform it like the AA) allowing her to use her full power and not be a damsel in distress.

But as she is cursed to a human body, she would be unable to fully reform her Goddess body and like the AA would be forced into a human body or begin to disappear.

That way she can use her full power, but not all the time, so she can't fix every situation she is in.
What's more tilting that Elizabeth actually had been a warrior in her previous lives, ˝Bloody Eli˝ ( comparable to the AA) , an amazon and a knight, but she doesn't appear to have gained any of the knowledge or skill from those lives? Give that girl some kind of weapon and let her shine,geeshh
 

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Give that girl some kind of weapon and let her shine,geeshh
We saw her use a light based weapon against the Gods, so she definitely has the capabilities to use a weapon.

If I was Nakaba, I'd give her a staff like weapon to enhance her ark and give her the "spellcaster or healer" type look.
 
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