Predictions End of Series

[Arjuna]

I personally feel Soo-Woon will sacrifice himself to save Yona and Hak.

But let's see what the author intends to do.

 

[SamuelDean]

There have been several child kings placed on the throne upon early death of their predecessors.If you read books about Monarchy, most of the job was being done by advisors while good Kings were mainly great orators and had to take the final decision.

.

Please don t insult me. I am not uneducated and most of the child kings occured at the end of the monarchies, so they didn t do a good job.

Their advisers could use kings who didn t rule to their wishes like it happened at the end of the Roman Empire:
"The final collapse of the Empire in the West was marked by increasingly ineffectual puppet Emperors dominated by their Germanic masters of the soldiers."

Furthermore it is true that many of the "great kings" operated himself and didn t let others do their job: For example Louis XIV.

 

[Trjpyo]

Yona is uneducated and has no basic knowledge.
and you have to know at least the basics for the job to be done.

Sara Palin was politically active since she was an adult. She studied at 4 universities. I would say a bad example.

I dont think yona is uneducated. She was suppose to fill the role of queen not king so her education maybe quite different. She can read and write, schooled in the arts, other things a queen needs to know.

Sarah palin transfered to varying schools along the course of her college life but she had only one degree.

My point is, you dont have to be schooled in economics, finance, infrastructure, political science, etc. (everything about public service) before going for the mayoral position or any kind of public service post.

 

[SamuelDean]

I would say she still understands more of politics being politically active all her life than Yona who is 16, lived behind castle walls and yes...as a ruler she is uneducated.

You still have to understand the basic of politics to be able to fill in a role. Yona is active merely a couple of months. So she had to gain more knowledge at a rapid rate and she still would have problems to persuade people,since they already have a king who is skilled.

I agree that they don t have to study in the field they occupy, but they are by no means uneducated and they have to gain the essential knowledge.

 

[@Aylinn]

For a late starter like yona, gaining domestic and foreign allies for the (six months?) after shes been out of the castle is already a feat. Shes making connections fast and to influential people at that. As for the generals, gaining their support and trust takes time.

Still, you are not explaining how it would make the story good. Yona shows no interest in doing the administrative job and it seems that now she would only have one arc to learn all the necessary stuff. It is simply not enough and too late in the game. If Kusanagi wanted to turn Yona into a good ruler in a believable manner, the time for it is long gone. I think Yona should have got interested back in the Awa arc in this case.

In fact, I don’t think that many common people would follow Yona. Maybe does that care a lot about religion and the Wind tribe would, but the rest? Su-won made their lives easier, so they have little incentive to follow Yona and I doubt that they would want to overthrow Su-won for Yona. Aside from religious reasons there is no need for them to care about it and most people cares more about comfort.

But i cant help wonder why the author developed yonas character from ignorant princess to game changer. If her character development is heading towards an upward trajectory, the throne would be likely.

No idea, though I suppose that she might have wanted to show that Yona is capable of attaining some success alone, without the help of dragons. Besides, let’s not exaggerate Yona’s achievements. Kouren stopped being obsessed about taking revenge on Su-won thanks to Gobi, she didn’t want to listen about peace before he appeared and the reason why Su-won manged to gain some points in her eyes was Gobi’s doings, not Yona. However, how It turned out is different matter and I think I made my opinion clear enough why I think it was the worst arc.

 

[Trjpyo]

now she would only have one arc to learn all the necessary stuff. It is simply not enough and too late in the game.

Is it confirmed this is gonna be the last arc?

In fact, I don’t think that many common people would follow Yona. Maybe does that care a lot about religion and the Wind tribe would, but the rest? Su-won made their lives easier, so they have little incentive to follow Yona and I doubt that they would want to overthrow Su-won for Yona. Aside from religious reasons there is no need for them to care about it and most people cares more about comfort.

I wonder about the common people tho. The fire tribe peasantry knows the girl with the red hair helped them. The entire water tribe army knew it was princess yona who helped with the nadai, thanks to lili and since word of mouth travels fast i can only imagine the entire water tribe citizens knowing about it. She, along with the HHB, made their lives decent and comfortable.

No idea, though I suppose that she might have wanted to show that Yona is capable of attaining some success alone, without the help of dragons. Besides, let’s not exaggerate Yona’s achievements. Kouren stopped being obsessed about taking revenge on Su-won thanks to Gobi, she didn’t want to listen about peace before he appeared and the reason why Su-won manged to gain some points in her eyes was Gobi’s doings, not Yona. However, how It turned out is different matter and I think I made my opinion clear enough why I think it was the worst arc.

We, the readers know about that detail... but the rumors circulating in chap 154 dont contain such detail. Those kinds of rumors are enough to paint her as some kind ‘savior’ in effect garnering the support of a portion of the populace(wind and sky tribe).

 

[Mini_kinkin]

Please don t insult me. I am not uneducated and most of the child kings occured at the end of the monarchies, so they didn t do a good job.

Their advisers could use kings who didn t rule to their wishes like it happened at the end of the Roman Empire:
"The final collapse of the Empire in the West was marked by increasingly ineffectual puppet Emperors dominated by their Germanic masters of the soldiers."

Furthermore it is true that many of the "great kings" operated himself and didn t let others do their job: For example Louis XIV.

Erm. Who is insulting you? This is a discussion without any personal attacks, so please don't attack me personally too.

My point is, you dont have to be schooled in economics, finance, infrastructure, political science, etc. (everything about public service) before going for the mayoral position or any kind of public service post.

This is my point too, which is why I brought up child kings. There was no need to be sensitive about it.

If we are talking about knowledge and education, perhaps there are even better people than Soo-Won in Kouka who can rule, but that doesn't have anything to do with succession. That is my point.

Having an opinion that Yona is not ready is different from the fact that she is the right heir until she marries.

In fact, I don’t think that many common people would follow Yona. Maybe does that care a lot about religion and the Wind tribe would, but the rest? Su-won made their lives easier, so they have little incentive to follow Yona and I doubt that they would want to overthrow Su-won for Yona. Aside from religious reasons there is no need for them to care about it and most people cares more about comfort.

Actually, it would probably be the common people who support Yona the most.

 

[@Aylinn]

Is it confirmed this is gonna be the last arc?

No, this is why I wrote that it seems at the beginning of the sentence.

I wonder about the common people tho. The fire tribe peasantry knows the girl with the red hair helped them. The entire water tribe army knew it was princess yona who helped with the nadai, thanks to lili and since word of mouth travels fast i can only imagine the entire water tribe citizens knowing about it. She, along with the HHB, made their lives decent and comfortable.

Now, she helped some people on the way. However, she certainly did not meet personally each and every person of the town or didn’t help each and every village.

As for how they could feel Su-won making their live easier. If he, for example, took care to make taxes fairer, got rid of corrupted officials and chose better ones or made it more difficult to oppress people, then it would be something that many would feel positively in the whole country.

What Yona is doing is like helping to extinguish fire in the house. What Su-won can do on the administrative level is like giving people a lightning rod, so it is like treating the cause of the illness, not just symptoms.

As for the Water Tribe's issue with nadai, Su-won was there as well and contributed to the success as well. He also helped and contributed even more than Yona, but doesn’t seem to be given credit for it. Maybe it will change.

 

[Aniela]

About the child kings, while it happened, a) this was no the normal situation, and b) it rarely ended well. While this is true that you can have a puppet king and still a prosperous country, the only historical instance of this I can think of is Cardinal Richelieu and his reform of France, ironically, into an absolute monarchy. It seems at least a little unfair to me that you use "child monarchs" as an argument that Yona doesn't need to be educated to be the ruler, but then you don't provide a single historical example, while I can point out several "average" or "weak" monarchs who were more like puppets in the nobility's hands, and whose reign left their country in a worse state than it had been when they ascended the throne; in the latter case, it didn't even leave it on the map.

This isn't to say that you can't have a young yet competent king, but this is different. Alexander the Great was twenty when he became king of Macedonia, and Casimir III the Great was barely thirteen when he took over a depopulated, war-ruined country and managed to revive it. However, these two don't have "Great" next to their names by accident, and both of them were raised to be rulers. With homeschool education starting since your early childhood, you could be quite competent at 13 already. Yona, however, would lag behind 16 years of idle childhood and no political training whatsoever. If she does become the ruler, and a competent one at that, I'll call BS.

 

[Mini_kinkin]

About the child kings, while it happened, a) this was no the normal situation, and b) it rarely ended well. While this is true that you can have a puppet king and still a prosperous country, the only historical instance of this I can think of is Cardinal Richelieu and his reform of France, ironically, into an absolute monarchy. It seems at least a little unfair to me that you use "child monarchs" as an argument that Yona doesn't need to be educated to be the ruler, but then you don't provide a single historical example, while I can point out several "average" or "weak" monarchs who were more like puppets in the nobility's hands, and whose reign left their country in a worse state than it had been when they ascended the throne; in the latter case, it didn't even leave it on the map.

This isn't to say that you can't have a young yet competent king, but this is different. Alexander the Great was twenty when he became king of Macedonia, and Casimir III the Great was barely thirteen when he took over a depopulated, war-ruined country and managed to revive it. However, these two don't have "Great" next to their names by accident, and both of them were raised to be rulers. With homeschool education starting since your early childhood, you could be quite competent at 13 already. Yona, however, would lag behind 16 years of idle childhood and no political training whatsoever. If she does become the ruler, and a competent one at that, I'll call BS.

I wasn't using it as an example that Yona should get the throne.

Samuel Dean said:

"Please name one person that replaced a ruler and had no knowledge."

And I merely gave the example of child kings, saying it is possible to become a ruler without prior knowledge. Not exactly connecting it with Yona at all or that she should be the ruler.....just that it is possible....but apparently I was being insulting. Okay. And even if I was wrong, just correct me properly without getting sensitive about it.......Plus I am not from Europe and I have mainly studied the history of my own country, so from whatever I read I made statements, so all that is required is to give me the right info.
Anyway thanks for the info @Aniela

 

[Trjpyo]

As for how they could feel Su-won making their live easier. If he, for example, took care to make taxes fairer, got rid of corrupted officials and chose better ones or made it more difficult to oppress people, then it would be something that many would feel positively in the whole country.
What Yona is doing is like helping to extinguish fire in the house. What Su-won can do on the administrative level is like giving people a lightning rod, so it is like treating the cause of the illness, not just symptoms.

Yep, nice examples. Still waiting for the manga to make it canon tho.

As for the Water Tribe's issue with nadai, Su-won was there as well and contributed to the success as well. He also helped and contributed even more than Yona, but doesn’t seem to be given credit for it. Maybe it will change.

I wouldnt count on it being known. If southern kai knew the kouka king suggested military personnel to attack s.k. traders, it would result in a diplomatic row.

 

[@Aylinn]

Yep, nice examples. Still waiting for the manga to make it canon tho.

I think it was confirmed here that he is doing a good job and not idling away.
https://lmfcdn.secure.footprint.net...a15cdada4bda4c45f2d7bc79549dc6&ttl=1518174000

I wouldnt count on it being known. If southern kai knew the kouka king suggested military personnel to attack s.k. traders, it would result in a diplomatic row.

Yeah, it would be bad if Kai were not attacking them, but they do now, so I don't think it matters anymore.

 

[Aniela]

I wasn't using it as an example that Yona should get the throne.

Samuel Dean said:

"Please name one person that replaced a ruler and had no knowledge."

And I merely gave the example of child kings, saying it is possible to become a ruler without prior knowledge. Not exactly connecting it with Yona at all or that she should be the ruler.....just that it is possible....but apparently I was being insulting. Okay. And even if I was wrong, just correct me properly without getting sensitive about it.......Plus I am not from Europe and I have mainly studied the history of my own country, so from whatever I read I made statements, so all that is required is to give me the right info.
Anyway thanks for the info @Aniela

OK, so I guess if the question is "is it viable", then yes. Bah, nobility might be quite eager to put a weak king on the throne, so they can have more power for themselves. Often you didn't even have to have a true heir to the throne, just a person pretending to be one, like all the false Dimitries at Russia, though to be fair, these ended in a fiasco. But yeah, Yona can absolutely be crowned, especially with the Hiryuu thing. I just don't think it realistic that as she is now, she would be a competent ruler, or at least a ruler more competent than Su-won, and so, that it would make a compelling ending. And in Kouka's case, I think that it's well established that king is an important person in their system, not a mere manager - otherwise the country wouldn't fall into a decline under Il, because his supposed advisers would keep things straight.

The funny thing I see her is that there's an intermix between arguments "out of real life" and those "from the manga". For instance, @Trjpyo above argues that Su-won's good influence on Kouka isn't canon, because it wasn't in the manga. This a "from the manga" argument. On the other hand, she also argues that:

I dont think yona is uneducated. She was suppose to fill the role of queen not king so her education maybe quite different. She can read and write, schooled in the arts, other things a queen needs to know.

Sarah palin transfered to varying schools along the course of her college life but she had only one degree.

My point is, you dont have to be schooled in economics, finance, infrastructure, political science, etc. (everything about public service) before going for the mayoral position or any kind of public service post.

And now, I may not remember it, but did we actually see Yona read or write in the manga? We know that she can dance, but that's all. More than that, the story explicitly showed what happened to Kouka under an incompetent king, who cared more about peace than his own country (kind of like Yona was on Xing's side instead of allying with Kouka in the conflict), so there's no reason to think that Yona would fare any better on the throne than Il.

The way I see it, you can either have "the manga way", in which case Yona's literacy is up for debate and she wouldn't fit into Kouka's ruling system without basic education on politics, finance, economics and all that or you can argue for "the real life way", where you say that Yona could be a good ruler without the proper education because these matters are handled by (supposedly existent) advisers, but then you can't also deny Su-won's achievements such as listed by @@Aylinn above. You can't just change perspective to whichever fits you better at the moment.

 

[Trjpyo]

And now, I may not remember it, but did we actually see Yona read or write in the manga? We know that she can dance, but that's all. More than that, the story explicitly showed what happened to Kouka under an incompetent king, who cared more about peace than his own country (kind of like Yona was on Xing's side instead of allying with Kouka in the conflict), so there's no reason to think that Yona would fare any better on the throne than Il.

No one wins in war. Both sides end up with a depleted national treasury and human resources killed. I’m glad yona stepped in the xing-kouka row bec apparently both leaders of countries didnt even think much about discussing things in the negotiating table first. Soowon and kouren equally guilty.
I’d rather have someone on the throne who didnt think lives were just disposable.

The way I see it, you can either have "the manga way", in which case Yona's literacy is up for debate and she wouldn't fit into Kouka's ruling system without basic education on politics, finance, economics and all that or you can argue for "the real life way", where you say that Yona could be a good ruler without the proper education because these matters are handled by (supposedly existent) advisers, but then you can't also deny Su-won's achievements such as listed by @@Aylinn above. You can't just change perspective to whichever fits you better at the moment.

Im not against making assumptions so i'll give it chance:
1. i feel the ‘making taxes fairer’ is so far from ‘managing well’ since the manga didnt even portray koukas economic status.
2. As for the corrupt/incompetent officials, im not so sure. I wouldve appreciated it if soowon had jungi step down. He seems to be about ‘giving people 2nd chances’. Which is why i feel the likelihood of him firing corrupt officials is unlikely.

See. Lets assume all we want.

 

[Aniela]

No one wins in war. Both sides end up with a depleted national treasury and human resources killed. I’m glad yona stepped in the xing-kouka row bec apparently both leaders of countries didnt even think much about discussing things in the negotiating table first. Soowon and kouren equally guilty.
I’d rather have someone on the throne who didnt think lives were just disposable.

1 - I don't believe Su-won thinks of lives as disposable. If anything, he was launching a preemptive strike because he wanted to have as few casualties as possible, knowing that Xing was going to attack Kouka either way.
2 - Il didn't think so either, and he valued peace above all else. It didn't end well. I wonder how many people died prematurely because of him from famine, lack of proper medical care (Fire Tribe)...

Im not against making assumptions so i'll give it chance:
1. i feel the ‘making taxes fairer’ is so far from ‘managing well’ since the manga didnt even portray koukas economic status.
2. As for the corrupt/incompetent officials, im not so sure. I wouldve appreciated it if soowon had jungi step down. He seems to be about ‘giving people 2nd chances’. Which is why i feel the likelihood of him firing corrupt officials is unlikely.

See. Lets assume all we want.

1 - Pretty sure that it did though. In the Earth Tribe Arc.
2 - But there's a scene in the anime where Kei-shuk brings Su-won a report about corrupted officials, so I doubt that he did it for nothing. Sure, anime isn't the original work like the manga, but until we see something in the manga that contradicts it, we can treat that scene as canon too. With Jungi it's something else, since he's not corrupt; he was incompetent, but he got better since the Water Tribe Arc, so there's no reason to fire him now.

 

[Trjpyo]

1 - I don't believe Su-won thinks of lives as disposable. If anything, he was launching a preemptive strike because he wanted to have as few casualties as possible, knowing that Xing was going to attack Kouka either way.
2 - Il didn't think so either, and he valued peace above all else. It didn't end well. I wonder how many people died prematurely because of him from famine, lack of proper medical care (Fire Tribe)...

***this isnt the proper thread for this but wth...
1. And this is why i question if soowon was ever schooled in foreign diplomacy. If he were a leader who didnt think his men were disposable then he would have opened the communication lines with xing not jump the gun.
2. Wait. I dont get your reasoning for #2. Am i right in thinking that your tying il's peace agenda to the poverty in the fire tribe?

1 - Pretty sure that it did though. In the Earth Tribe Arc.
2 - But there's a scene in the anime where Kei-shuk brings Su-won a report about corrupted officials, so I doubt that he did it for nothing. Sure, anime isn't the original work like the manga, but until we see something in the manga that contradicts it, we can treat that scene as canon too. With Jungi it's something else, since he's not corrupt; he was incompetent, but he got better since the Water Tribe Arc, so there's no reason to fire him now.

1. so im gonna ask you, how do you tie soowons earth tribe stunt to 'making taxes fair' for all citizens of kouka? where did this assumption of soowon making taxes fair come from? Do tell.

2.Since it wasnt explicitly shown how he handles varying offenses, i could only assume that he forgives, generally. As per the kan sons (Family accused of treason) and jungi incompetence

 

[@Aylinn]

Well, the fairer taxes, etc. was just an example of what he could have done. I don’t remember anything being told about taxes in the manga. We are only being told that he is doing very well.

1. so im gonna ask you, how do you tie soowons earth tribe stunt to 'making taxes fair' for all citizens of kouka? where did this assumption of soowon making taxes fair come from? Do tell.

I think Aniela is thinking about him taking care of corrupted officials. He did go to investigate the issue with Kum-ji and we learn that he is the one who chooses the next person, so that arc confirms that he was doing something with the problem of corrupted officials.

As for Joon-Gi and other generals, it seems that they were good enough under Joo-nam and that they can do a good job under Su-won, so maybe the problem was not with them, but with Il’s leadership?

1. And this is why i question if soowon was ever schooled in foreign diplomacy. If he were a leader who didnt think his men were disposable then he would have opened the communication lines with xing not jump the gun.

Why Su-won didn’t think about trying to establish diplomatic relationship with Kouren? Well, I don’t know, maybe he tried and we have never learnt about it or, what I think is unfortunately more probable, he didn’t think about a basic political move, because in Xing arc it was Yona’s time to shine.

 

[Mini_kinkin]

Thinking about it Yona seems to care for everyone more than just caring for Kouka. Being impartial like that is probably not the best choice for ruler too. Like she said she cares for Kai people a lot, also cares for Xing people tried to make peace for both Kouka and Xing's sake, not only Kouka.

Maybe a wanderer ending might not be too satisfactory for some Yona fans, and maybe I am an exception who is okay with such an ending, but I am wondering if she doesn't become the queen in the end what would be a satisfactory ending for Yona fans in the end? Since most of our fandom are Yona and Hak shippers, I guess seeing her with a happy family might pacify some fans, but some people still really hate Soo-Won, so it will be difficult to pacify them.

Well, as an author it is difficult to make a story everyone will like anyway. It all needs to be what makes sense the most.

 

[@Aylinn]

I agree it might be that Yona being the Queen will be the ending not because it makes the most sense storywise and because it would suit Yona as a character, but because it is what fans expect and want.

I suppose it might happen, since recently stories with empowered women are very popular and turned out successful, so I am sure some companies and authors are and will be willing to milk this trend to make money. As always and as with every fashion there will be few stories that will be genuinely good and a lot of stories about badass women whose badassery will come out of nowhere or will be overblown, because it is what sells now.

I have had suspicions for a long time that the Xing arc was kind of there to milk on this very trend as Yona was constantly shown in a good light and as a badass woman, which is there to be admired and that’s why her very first attempt at diplomacy ends and is presented as a big success despite her being a total greenhorn and despite the fact that we never see her struggle to acquire the necessary knowledge about politics and diplomacy prior to this arc, so what should have been a coronation of her hard work and efforts ends up being handed to her on a silver platter. And since the manga shows her only in a good light it only stops to make sense once you start to analyse it.

I don't have anything against strong heroines, but I would like to have a good story first and foremost. Besides, Yona doesn’t have to become the ruler of Kouka to be a strong heroine.

 

[Mini_kinkin]

In the latest chapter, Zeno said that the only place Yu-Hon couldn't touch was Hiryuu's Shrine.

Makes me think more and more that Yu-Hon did the entire priest banishment thing because of Hiryu's reincarnation.