Semifinal Gildarts Clive vs Natsu Dragneel

[Takuan]

I talked about my opinion about Gildarts's level in another thread recently, but ii'll repeat myself:

I think Gildarts has been portrayed as being THE guy always better than Natsu. Natsu VS Gray has always been a nice competition but even if Natsu is the star of the manga, Gray has been on par with him. Natsu trying to surpass Erza was also a thing, and now that thing is done.
But the rivalty with Gildarts has always been showed throughout the manga; in my opinion Natsu WILL eventually surpass Gildarts, and will prove it (probably, only my opinion) by beating someone Gildarts couldn't defeat. Now Gildarts still didn't appear recently but i'm hoping he will soon.
Anyway, in my eyes Natsu will eventually be better tha Gildarts and he's getting closer and closer. But i don't think he is yet.

Featwise Natsu has the upper hand but as stated recently by Nemispelled, feats aren't everything. Gildarts has been pictured as a beast during the whole series, to the point where he HAS to be completly absent from the manga otherwise fights involving FT would be won way too easily.

Also i think we should stop bringing back that fight with Bluenote. He got destroyed by Natsu recently yeah, but only because Natsu has improved tremendously. During Tenrou arc Bluenote was actually a monster Natsu couldn't do anything against; and ultimately Gildarts defeated that monster with one punch.

I'm looking forward to hearing more opinions about that fight since this is rather difficult imo (as every Gildarts fights were imo since he is pretty featless), but for now i feel like Natsu should lose this. He's not quite at GIldarts level YET.

 

[Ebony Maw]

I talked about my opinion about Gildarts's level in another thread recently, but ii'll repeat myself:

I think Gildarts has been portrayed as being THE guy always better than Natsu. Natsu VS Gray has always been a nice competition but even if Natsu is the star of the manga, Gray has been on par with him. Natsu trying to surpass Erza was also a thing, and now that thing is done.
But the rivalty with Gildarts has always been showed throughout the manga; in my opinion Natsu WILL eventually surpass Gildarts, and will prove it (probably, only my opinion) by beating someone Gildarts couldn't defeat. Now Gildarts still didn't appear recently but i'm hoping he will soon.
Anyway, in my eyes Natsu will eventually be better tha Gildarts and he's getting closer and closer. But i don't think he is yet.

Featwise Natsu has the upper hand but as stated recently by Nemispelled, feats aren't everything. Gildarts has been pictured as a beast during the whole series, to the point where he HAS to be completly absent from the manga otherwise fights involving FT would be won way too easily.

Also i think we should stop bringing back that fight with Bluenote. He got destroyed by Natsu recently yeah, but only because Natsu has improved tremendously. During Tenrou arc Bluenote was actually a monster Natsu couldn't do anything against; and ultimately Gildarts defeated that monster with one punch.

I'm looking forward to hearing more opinions about that fight since this is rather difficult imo (as every Gildarts fights were imo since he is pretty featless), but for now i feel like Natsu should lose this. He's not quite at GIldarts level YET.

You've pretty much summed up my thoughts on this, I want to give benefit of the doubt for Gildarts so I think I'll change my vote. I've got to admit, these are some amazing semi-finals.

 

[Arjuna]

I talked about my opinion about Gildarts's level in another thread recently, but ii'll repeat myself:

I think Gildarts has been portrayed as being THE guy always better than Natsu. Natsu VS Gray has always been a nice competition but even if Natsu is the star of the manga, Gray has been on par with him. Natsu trying to surpass Erza was also a thing, and now that thing is done.
But the rivalty with Gildarts has always been showed throughout the manga; in my opinion Natsu WILL eventually surpass Gildarts, and will prove it (probably, only my opinion) by beating someone Gildarts couldn't defeat. Now Gildarts still didn't appear recently but i'm hoping he will soon.
Anyway, in my eyes Natsu will eventually be better tha Gildarts and he's getting closer and closer. But i don't think he is yet.

Featwise Natsu has the upper hand but as stated recently by Nemispelled, feats aren't everything. Gildarts has been pictured as a beast during the whole series, to the point where he HAS to be completly absent from the manga otherwise fights involving FT would be won way too easily.

Also i think we should stop bringing back that fight with Bluenote. He got destroyed by Natsu recently yeah, but only because Natsu has improved tremendously. During Tenrou arc Bluenote was actually a monster Natsu couldn't do anything against; and ultimately Gildarts defeated that monster with one punch.

I'm looking forward to hearing more opinions about that fight since this is rather difficult imo (as every Gildarts fights were imo since he is pretty featless), but for now i feel like Natsu should lose this. He's not quite at GIldarts level YET.

But Hiro is not saying Gildarts had easy time.He is writing that he went toe-and-toe- with Gildarts.It was not one shot.Gildarts had lot of difficulty.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 21, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 21, 2016 ---

I don't know why a fighter who:-
i)MP around the level of GMG Jura.
ii)Against whom Bluenote can go toe and toe.
iii)Who showed no sign of improvement since Tenrou(probably reached his prime)
Should be able to defeat Current Natsu.

 

[Hermit]

Well yes it pretty much does. God Serena, a Spriggan, was oneshotted by Human Acnologia. Gildarts faced Acnologia in his dragon form and survived.

Oh, and you can quote me next time if you want to reply to me so badly.

To be fair Acnologia was actually aiming to kill God Serena, being a Dragon Slayer and all, while Gildarts was just a passing menace to him, he didn't particularly care if he lived or died

 

[kkck]

Welp, now this is hard to believe. Gildarts making it this far... even though the level he last showed has more or less been blatantly shown as fodder to a springan....

Anyways, in this case I am giving natsu an easy win.

Just seeing the fight between bluenote and natsu should show how much stronger natsu is than the last we saw of gildarts. Bluenote was a guy natsu literally won in a second against. Natsu barely even bothered with the guy at all. In turn gildarts had a fair bit of trouble with the guy and ultimately had to use what seemed like one of his stronger techniques to win. Going by feats alone and non imaginary gildarts natsu is merely a roar away from an easy victory. Anything more than that is overkill. That said, don't rule out gildarts actually having become stronger over the past year but even if he did it should be irrelevant to this thread.

 

[Stormsfury]

Welp, now this is hard to believe. Gildarts making it this far... even though the level he last showed has more or less been blatantly shown as fodder to a springan....

Anyways, in this case I am giving natsu an easy win.

Just seeing the fight between bluenote and natsu should show how much stronger natsu is than the last we saw of gildarts. Bluenote was a guy natsu literally won in a second against. Natsu barely even bothered with the guy at all. In turn gildarts had a fair bit of trouble with the guy and ultimately had to use what seemed like one of his stronger techniques to win. Going by feats alone and non imaginary gildarts natsu is merely a roar away from an easy victory. Anything more than that is overkill. That said, don't rule out gildarts actually having become stronger over the past year but even if he did it should be irrelevant to this thread.

Vey True, but if that's the case then why did people take into account, Natsu's dragon force that hasn't actually been used yet against Serena, they were talking about post timeskip dragon force Natsu, despite the fact that post timeskip dragon force Natsu hasn't even been shown. they were just assuming things.

 

[Takuan]

But Hiro is not saying Gildarts had easy time.He is writing that he went toe-and-toe- with Gildarts.It was not one shot.Gildarts had lot of difficulty.

I gotta admit, english is't my native language and i double checked the translation of "toe-to-toe". While in my mind it was supposed to mean that Gildarts and Bluenote had a very difficult battle and that they were equally strong, "toe-to-toe" actually means that they fought fiercely, which is the case. In my opinion even if the battle was hard for Gildarts (mainly because of Azuma's effect on the Tenrou tree), in the end he proved that he was better than Bluenote.

It is reminiscent of Gildarts' battle against Earthland Byro (this arc was showed only in the anime i think?). They went toe-to-toe and fought for a little while, but in the end it was clearly stated that Gildarts was way above Earthland Byro.

 

[Tirl]

MP around the level of GMG Jura.

Aha. Makarov also say that spriggan are monsters, and as we see - Makarov is fool and spriggans are nothing.
So Gildarts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GMG Jura

Against whom Bluenote can go toe and toe.

Laxus stand toe-to-toe with Jura, not Gildarts with Blunote.

Who showed no sign of improvement since Tenrou

Maybe bs he had not fight after this? Or bs he dont need to show any improvement?

 

[Arjuna]

I gotta admit, english is't my native language and i double checked the translation of "toe-to-toe". While in my mind it was supposed to mean that Gildarts and Bluenote had a very difficult battle and that they were equally strong, "toe-to-toe" actually means that they fought fiercely, which is the case. In my opinion even if the battle was hard for Gildarts (mainly because of Azuma's effect on the Tenrou tree), in the end he proved that he was better than Bluenote.

It is reminiscent of Gildarts' battle against Earthland Byro (this arc was showed only in the anime i think?). They went toe-to-toe and fought for a little while, but in the end it was clearly stated that Gildarts was way above Earthland Byro.

Still consider Natsu even didn't even face any difficulty at all against Bluenote.Hiro was not definetly talking about tree falling situation because Bluenote was kicking Gildarts one sided and Gildarts couldn't defend himself.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 21, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 21, 2016 ---

Aha. Makarov also say that spriggan are monsters, and as we see - Makarov is fool and spriggans are nothing.
So Gildarts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GMG Jura

Laxus stand toe-to-toe with Jura, not Gildartss with Blunote.

Maybe bs he had not fight after this? Or bs he dont neet to show any improvement?

If Makarov says Spriggans are strong i don't see any reason to disbelieve it as Spriggans are stronger than previous Antagonists.
ii)It is Hiro who himself wrote that Bluenote went toe and toe with Gildarts not any one else.
iii)If you consider Natsu's performance against Gildarts's in Tenrou and Tartaros you will see Natsu imroving.Natsu improved but Gildarts stayed at one position.

 

[Takuan]

Still consider Natsu even didn't even face any difficulty at all against Bluenote.Hiro was not definetly talking about tree falling situation because Bluenote was kicking Gildarts one sided and Gildarts couldn't defend himself.

What?
The fight became one-sided after the tree fell.
This fight was divided into 3 parts:
1) Toe-to-toe, kinda equal.
2) Tree fell, Gildarts exhausted and can't fight back, one-sided fight.
3) Tree restored, Gildarts stands up, crashes Bluenote's black hole, and punches Bluenote. Gildarts wins.

iii)If you consider Natsu's performance against Gildarts's in Tenrou and Tartaros you will see Natsu imroving.Natsu improved but Gildarts stayed at one position.

Natsu in Tenrou: overwhelmed, gives up, manages to push Gildarts back a bit.
Natsu in Tartaros: overwhelmed, gives up, manages to push Gildarts back a bit further than before.
That's an improvement indeed but... Still miles away from giving Gildarts a hard fight.
Then again Natsu showed how much he improved in one year so this is possible and that's an opinion shared by a lot of people. Personally I don't think i'm ready to admit that Natsu has surpassed Gildarts quite yet.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Well yes it pretty much does. God Serena, a Spriggan, was oneshotted by Human Acnologia. Gildarts faced Acnologia in his dragon form and survived.

Oh, and you can quote me next time if you want to reply to me so badly.

There nothing implying Acno's human form is way weaker than his dragon. Gildarts faced Acno who probably wasn't serious at all and survived through unknown circumstances. And no I don't want a reply from you because I know I wouldn't get a decent reply from you.

 

[Tirl]

If you consider Natsu's performance against Gildarts's in Tenrou and Tartaros you will see Natsu imroving.Natsu improved but Gildarts stayed at one position.

Like on Tenrou, like in Tartaros - Gildarts was far above Natsu and didnt take any Natsu's "great" improvement.

Gildarts faced Acno who probably wasn't serious

Ofc not serious... ok

 

[Shoutmon]

Alright,here's the fight between Gildarts and Bluenote before the Tenrou tree went down:

Spoiler: Gildarts vs Bluenote

Here's Natsu vs Bluenote:

Spoiler: Natsu vs Bluenote

Now as we can see, Gildarts clearly had more difficulty with Bluenote than Natsu did and while Gildarts could've finished him with Empyrean, it's clearly one of his finisher/high-level spells, If it wasn't, he would've used it at the start of the fight(as he wouldn't have been in danger of depleting his magic too quickly), meanwhile, Natsu only needed a basic roar to finish him.

Now keep in mind that it was base Natsu who one-shotted him (and he wasn't even going all out, as he still had his base FDK spells). He still has BDKM, which is >>> base, and DF, which is a DS's most powerful transformation, so is likely > BDKM. The only reason Natsu doesn't stomp is because I'm giving Gildarts some hype, but not enough to say that he's > Natsu and Laxus, as he doesn't have any recent feats to back it up, and the portrayal argument doesn't work, because he's only portrayed to be stronger than pre-one year timeskip Natsu, not current Natsu.

As for him surviving against Acnologia, that might have been impressive if it wasn't for him losing 2 limbs and an organ in the process + we don't know how the encounter went, maybe Acnologia just wanted him out of his sight and didn't care if he survived or not, unlike with Serena where he attacked with the intent to kill.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Like on Tenrou, like in Tartaros - Gildarts was far above Natsu and didnt take any Natsu's "great" improvement.


Ofc not serious... ok

Using more strength against the Faires isn't the same as being serious.

 

[BluePegasus]

There nothing implying Acno's human form is way weaker than his dragon. Gildarts faced Acno who probably wasn't serious at all and survived through unknown circumstances.

LOL did you just really say his human form is slightly below his dragon form. You can't be serious.

And no I don't want a reply from you because I know I wouldn't get a decent reply from you.

Then why do your posts refer to me? You're just asking for a reply it seems.

 

[Crimson Ice]

LOL did you just really say his human form is slightly below his dragon form. You can't be serious.



Then why do your posts refer to me? You're just asking for a reply it seems.

When has it ever been implied his dragon form was much stronger? He mudered most dragons in his human form, and I was commenting to your wacky statement doesn't mean I want it was expecting a reply.

 

[Tirl]

Using more strength against the Faires isn't the same as being serious.

Acno use less power against FT, not more. Do you can read??

 

[Crimson Ice]

Acno use less power against FT, not more. Do you can read??

Meant to write less. It's funny you try and insult me and you write "Do you can read" because that made sense.......My point is just because Acno used more power against Gildarts than he did against the guild doesn't mean he was serious.

 

[Tirl]

here's the fight between Gildarts and Bluenote before the Tenrou tree went down:

And after it restore

Spoiler

 

[Tirl]

Meant to write less. It's funny you try and insult me and you write "Do you can read" because that made sense.......My point is just because Acno used more power against Gildarts than he did against the guild doesn't mean he was serious.

You said "Using more strength against the Faires". It is not the same as "used more power against Gildarts".