Mirajane has known Erza for years, and Erza's strength hasnt changed that much from the beginning of the series to GMG. She saw what Jura could do against Jellal and the MPF. Makarov has no clue how strong everyone got during the timeskip.
jura literally did nothing against jellal. jellal wasnt even injured.
and cana scored far higher than jura in MPF
may i ask when mirajane made that statement?
actually erza had changed alot. in the start of the series she was around 10th WS tier, like jellal and jura. in start of gmg she took out WS tier monster and 99 others, putting her atleast around 7th WS tier without SO. Kagura herself was attacking with jupiter tier attacks
Sting blasted a hole in Jiemma, and Jiemma literally bullied Minerva into joining Tartaros after GMG. After both got power ups by turning into demons, Mard called Minerva trash and considered Jiemma to be far stronger than any of the 9 demon gates. Mard was gonna kill Minerva, and Sting saved her. Mard couldnt oneshot Sting. Demon Jiemma couldnt oneshot Sting. Sting was flat out stronger than Minerva during Tartaros, and this was after Minerva receieved a power-up from being turned into a demon. Sting is also currently just flat out stronger than Kagura. He shrugged off the karate chop from Larcade that oneshotted Kagura. Larcade also couldnt block Sting's hand to hand with just 2 fingers.
Btw, Baccus was on Erza's level prior to the timeskip. Cobra would have beaten Erza during Key of a Starry Night arc if not for Kinana's voice. This is the tier Kagura and Minerva belong to. It's nowhere near Jura's level. Erza only reached Laxus/Jura level when she doubled her MP reserves with second origin.
erza was never stated to be weaker than laxus, it was all fan made nonsense.
and since SO gray isnt far superior to gmg gajeel, we can throw your SO being better than three months training out of the window.
in 100 year quest, it is implied that laxus caught up with erza, with statements about his power increase and erza holding back
please tell me what erza said when she talked about phantom s class mages
jura literally did nothing against jellal. jellal wasnt even injured.
and cana scored far higher than jura in MPF
may i ask when mirajane made that statement?
actually erza had changed alot. in the start of the series she was around 10th WS tier, like jellal and jura. in start of gmg she took out WS tier monster and 99 others, putting her atleast around 7th WS tier without SO. Kagura herself was attacking with jupiter tier attacks
that was after pof.
so selene is weaker than nerfed dogramog hmm
key of starry night isnt in the manga, thus not cannon. its a filler. to give mishma time get ahead in the actual story
racer + cobra couldnt have beaten erza in OS arc, they needed hoteye in a sneak attack
(OS arc is actually in the manga)
erza was never stated to be weaker than laxus, it was all fan made nonsense.
and since SO gray isnt far superior to gmg gajeel, we can throw your SO being better than three months training out of the window.
in 100 year quest, it is implied that laxus caught up with erza, with statements about his power increase and erza holding back
Erza said "They have 4 S-Class members, the element 4". She never said they were as strong as Fairy Tail's S-Class. A few chapters later, Jose told us that Gajeel is the strongest in the guild. He's not an element 4.
Jellal needed to resort to Sema to take down Jura, the same move he used to teambust Oracion. Cana maxed out the MPF with Fairy Glitter, which is said to be as powerful as Fairy Law. Even then, Jura was close to maxing out the MPF and Makarov said that he would have been a match for Gildarts.
Erza was always Wizard Saint tier. The monsters at the GMG are mostly fodder, except for the S-Class monster said to be able to give Wizard Saints trouble. Besides, if you really wanna go down this route of ranking Wizard Saints, Jura was basically on par with ranks 2-3 against God Serena.
Key of the Starry Night is canon. It was storyboarded by Mashima, and the Zentopia Incident where Oracion Seis went around getting rid of Celestial Spirit mages was referenced directly by Yukino. Post-timeskip Cobra was beating Erza until he got distracted by Kinana.
Selene isnt weaker than Dogramag. Her human form is weaker than his though.
Second origin doubles your MP. For Natsu, it allowed him to use LFD without exhausting himself and use dragon force without eating for a power-up. For Erza, it allows the use of nakagami armour and she has twice the MP to pour into Benisakura. For Lucy, it allowed her to summon up to 3 spirits at once and summon the spirit king. Gray is just about the only guy that didnt jump tiers with second origin, and that's largely due to the fact that ice-make is meh. Doubling your MP doesnt mean anything when all you do with it make swords faster, which is what Gray did with ice-make unlimited. So, sure. 3 months of training is equal to second origin if you compare Gajeel to Gray. Because both stayed fighting at base Natsu's level.
Im not gonna get roped into another Laxus vs Erza debate. Jura wins this mid diff at worst. Kagura shares a tier with Minerva and Cobra. Opponents that gave pre-SO Erza trouble, and got powercrept by Tartaros. Jura is the guy that requires Laxus and Jellal to go all out to beat. Now that God Serena has proven to be a better physical combatant than Larcade (Stomping ISD > Fighting at base Sting's level), we can even directly compare their Alvarez arc showings.
Erza said "They have 4 S-Class members, the element 4". She never said they were as strong as Fairy Tail's S-Class. A few chapters later, Jose told us that Gajeel is the strongest in the guild. He's not an element 4.
Jellal needed to resort to Sema to take down Jura, the same move he used to teambust Oracion. Cana maxed out the MPF with Fairy Glitter, which is said to be as powerful as Fairy Law. Even then, Jura was close to maxing out the MPF and Makarov said that he would have been a match for Gildarts.
Erza was always Wizard Saint tier. The monsters at the GMG are mostly fodder, except for the S-Class monster said to be able to give Wizard Saints trouble. Besides, if you really wanna go down this route of ranking Wizard Saints, Jura was basically on par with ranks 2-3 against God Serena.
Key of the Starry Night is canon. It was storyboarded by Mashima, and the Zentopia Incident where Oracion Seis went around getting rid of Celestial Spirit mages was referenced directly by Yukino. Post-timeskip Cobra was beating Erza until he got distracted by Kinana.
its not cannon. if it is, give me chapter in the manga. fillers are made to give author time. consistency is generally not followed
the problem with you is, you prioritize less important things over more important things
for example
Mishma had cobra plus racer plus hot eye in a sneak attack take out erza in OS arc. We know erza was far stronger than natsu in pre ts arcs. We also know bad guys tend to fall back in ranking (like bluenote) over time. but somehow you think cobra could handle erza after two three arcs?
but that is not all. Cobra got huge power up in this starry arc story, midnight also got new magic (which on paper should be stronger, Zero's magic). Do you know what magic these guys used against August? not the new non cannon magic.
starry arc is most likely the most filler arc one can be. mishma didnt even bother to create new characters lol
you seems to clearly believe that human selene is much weaker than nerfed human dogramog. why would they get different boost while turing into dragons. please show statement that selene gets more power when turing into a dragon compared to dogramog
Second origin doubles your MP. For Natsu, it allowed him to use LFD without exhausting himself and use dragon force without eating for a power-up. For Erza, it allows the use of nakagami armour and she has twice the MP to pour into Benisakura. For Lucy, it allowed her to summon up to 3 spirits at once and summon the spirit king. Gray is just about the only guy that didnt jump tiers with second origin, and that's largely due to the fact that ice-make is meh. Doubling your MP doesnt mean anything when all you do with it make swords faster, which is what Gray did with ice-make unlimited. So, sure. 3 months of training is equal to second origin if you compare Gajeel to Gray. Because both stayed fighting at base Natsu's level.
im not gonna get roped into another Laxus vs Erza debate. Jura wins this mid diff at worst. Kagura shares a tier with Minerva and Cobra. Opponents that gave pre-SO Erza trouble, and got powercrept by Tartaros. Jura is the guy that requires Laxus and Jellal to go all out to beat. Now that God Serena has proven to be a better physical combatant than Larcade (Stomping ISD > Fighting at base Sting's level), we can even directly compare their Alvarez arc showings.
of course not. fans wanked the sh!t of laxus and then when mishma gives us laxus vs erza, you people will do anything to protect your wrong assumptions in which you invested so much.
imagine if gray grew in power and fought gildarts like laxus and erza did. yes, its an extreme example, but surely gray wont be holding back, and nor would gray be commenting on gildarts growth
cobra at most, shares a tier with rufus and base rouge. difference between cobra and kagura is probably much larger than difference between kagura and jura. kagura can causally dash out jupiter tier level attacks, move faster than marakrov following abilities and can tank move which was above all moves before that day in GMG (except jura own mt juji).
Serena hasnt shown anything. he countered gajeel. lacarde straight up over powered sting. there is a difference
is that all she said? pretty sure, she said something more about how phantom stack up with fairies dues to S-class thing
lol. its not like jellal has options. his GC is equal to erza blumblatt. basically something kagura can causally handle
i like you didnt tell us when mira made the comparison statement. hmm you also havent provided minerva card.
please show panels saying gmg monsters were fodders
yes after erza become around 1st WS teir level, jura was around 3rd WS tier level in alverzec
its not cannon. if it is, give me chapter in the manga. fillers are made to give author time. consistency is generally not followed
the problem with you is, you prioritize less important things over more important things
for example
Mishma had cobra plus racer plus hot eye in a sneak attack take out erza in OS arc. We know erza was far stronger than natsu in pre ts arcs. We also know bad guys tend to fall back in ranking (like bluenote) over time. but somehow you think cobra could handle erza after two three arcs?
but that is not all. Cobra got huge power up in this starry arc story, midnight also got new magic (which on paper should be stronger, Zero's magic). Do you know what magic these guys used against August? not the new non cannon magic.
starry arc is most likely the most filler arc one can be. mishma didnt even bother to create new characters lol
you seems to clearly believe that human selene is much weaker than nerfed human dogramog. why would they get different boost while turing into dragons. please show statement that selene gets more power when turing into a dragon compared to dogramog
you know nothing of what three months training does.
at the end of the day. without using other modes.
base gmg natsu was around base gmg gajeel
lfd tartarus natus was around tartarus isd gajeel
basically erza and laxus improved the same amount in first time skip
of course not. fans wanked the sh!t of laxus and then when mishma gives us laxus vs erza, you people will do anything to protect your wrong assumptions in which you invested so much.
imagine if gray grew in power and fought gildarts like laxus and erza did. yes, its an extreme example, but surely gray wont be holding back, and nor would gray be commenting on gildarts growth
cobra at most, shares a tier with rufus and base rouge. difference between cobra and kagura is probably much larger than difference between kagura and jura. kagura can causally dash out jupiter tier level attacks, move faster than marakrov following abilities and can tank move which was above all moves before that day in GMG (except jura own mt juji).
Serena hasnt shown anything. he countered gajeel. lacarde straight up over powered sting. there is a difference
I'll be honest, I dont remember the exact chapter Mirajane gave her statement.
Minerva doesnt have a guild card. It doesnt matter, because Sting is stronger than her, and Orga's attack power would still scale above Sting's.
Gajeel is only comparable to base Natsu with the results of his training. He had to gain an entirely new element to keep up with LFD mode, and that still doesnt put him on Natsu's level. Natsu can use DF without eating for a power-up now.
Human Selene is above human Dogramag after the nerf, because Dogramag's rocks were no longer unbreakable.
Yukino talked about the Zentopia Incident when she tried to give Lucy her keys. That's a direct mention of the Key of the Starry Night arc. Key of the Starry Night is after the 7 year timeskip, and I can absolutely believe Cobra reached Erza's level during that time. Angel is literally using the angel magic she showed in the anime. Racer still has the suit that grants him actual speed. Cobra doesnt use his sound magic anymore because his dragon-slaying magic is stronger. It was stronger even during Key of the Starry Night arc. He just held back on using it because he was on the last reserves of Kinana's poison.
God Serena gave ISD Gajeel a beatdown. God Serena doesnt even have iron as an element. He just pointed out diamond is harder than iron. There's no advantage that God Serena would have over Gajeel that doesnt apply to Sting. He's just better at physical combat. Larcade was only winning against base Sting. Larcade *lost* to WSD Sting.
Jura was put on Gildart's level by Makarov, and his rank as the 5th WS would put him above Makarov. Makarov shrugged off Jupiter canons on Tenrou. For context, Hades throwing Makarov around with chains did more damage. Kagura simply isn't on this level. She's on the same level as Minerva and Cobra.
Im not sure what you're getting at with Gray and Gildarts. But if they fought, I'd be less concerned about what they say...and far more concerned about whose in better shape after the fight.
I normally divide bad guys in three/four categories of power
fodder tier-lucy and wendy fights them
mid tier - natsu, gray fights them
high tier - erza fights them
boss tier - natsu final fight
i found it
sorry @Axiomus Its exactly like marakrov statement. Mira made that statement before jura and jellal started their fight. jura had done literally nothing infront mira. chapter 273. i third or forth last page of that chapter
Now, would you admit you were wrong. would you admit its just like markarov statement vs ajeel?
i know it is difficult, you believed in these needles fans searched so hard to keep laxus a tier above erza. but surely you can see, mira making that statement before erza and jura showed zilch surely is exact same as markarov statement about ajeel and team natsu
Gajeel is only comparable to base Natsu with the results of his training. He had to gain an entirely new element to keep up with LFD mode, and that still doesnt put him on Natsu's level. Natsu can use DF without eating for a power-up now.
dont understand
selene lost to suzaku
nerfed dogramag lost to combi9ned union of natsu and suzaku.
so, where are you getting that human selene is stronger than nerfed dogramag?
Yukino talked about the Zentopia Incident when she tried to give Lucy her keys. That's a direct mention of the Key of the Starry Night arc. Key of the Starry Night is after the 7 year timeskip, and I can absolutely believe Cobra reached Erza's level during that time. Angel is literally using the angel magic she showed in the anime. Racer still has the suit that grants him actual speed. Cobra doesnt use his sound magic anymore because his dragon-slaying magic is stronger. It was stronger even during Key of the Starry Night arc. He just held back on using it because he was on the last reserves of Kinana's poison.
that doesnt make everything that happens in that arc cannon. filler, by definition are meant to give the author time
why can you believe, cobra improved that much. why didnt midnight also improve that much? why didnt bluenote improved that much?
I like how you use two examples where mishma couldnt do anything. angel lost her keys, she had to attack some how. gray took an entire fight to figure out racer wasnt actually fast, but you think one panel against august show his new magic lol
things that could have shown new magic clearly was midnight magic and cobra. both decided to use their weaker cannon magic against august
and no cobra new magic was much superior to his old one, just like midnight one was. they got an upgrade in that filler arc, not a degrade
God Serena gave ISD Gajeel a beatdown. God Serena doesnt even have iron as an element. He just pointed out diamond is harder than iron. There's no advantage that God Serena would have over Gajeel that doesnt apply to Sting. He's just better at physical combat. Larcade was only winning against base Sting. Larcade *lost* to WSD Sting.
i understand your point but no. you can replace laxus with serena and you will see what overpowering gajeel looks like. serena countered him. laxus would have straight up tanked everything gajeel throws at him, just like casually blocked kagura swords. no magic needed to defend your self
WSD sting is much more stronger than sting compared to isd gajeel vs gajeel
Jura was put on Gildart's level by Makarov, and his rank as the 5th WS would put him above Makarov. Makarov shrugged off Jupiter canons on Tenrou. For context, Hades throwing Makarov around with chains did more damage. Kagura simply isn't on this level. She's on the same level as Minerva and Cobra.
same kind of hype. markarov made that statment with very little feat, maybe just mp. just like he did ajeel
no gmg jura is weaker than marakarov. he overtook markarov because markarov disappeared.
Markarov didnt shrug off jupiter, he was grievously injured. only reason he kept fight was because of his size. titan wrist is as large as jura. jura entire body will look like titan marakarov wrist.
We know kagura level, you dont need to make new ones. she can casually hit at jupiter cannon level, when sheathed. she can move fast enough that marakrov can barely follow and can tank move which jura claims was above anything he has seen before in this tournament, yes, that included Ogra best
Kagura infact has better durability feat than jura. jura opted to dodge orga attack (which is weaker than minerva nuke) and trick ogra for the win. kagura straight up tanked that nuke which jura himself claimed was above Ogra attack on MPF (is statement of someone this strong is here).
there is a reason minerva put jura and kagura together when telling Sting and Ogra not to approach them, she also didnt include laxus in that list
Im not sure what you're getting at with Gray and Gildarts. But if they fought, I'd be less concerned about what they say...and far more concerned about whose in better shape after the fight.
they can be exactly like laxus and erza were after their fight
you believe, laxus was above erza (even though he has never beaten anyone who erza couldnt beat)
so we know gildarts is above gray (the gap is much larger sure)
now hypothetical scenario
if gray improved and caught up with gildarts, like you believe erza did (despite manga stating exact opposite)
then think in a similiar fight like laxus vs erza, if gray and gildarts fought.
who would comment on whose improvement and who will hold back?
there was no point in the entire serioes where erza improved more than laxus. they were same then, they are same now. there is a reason why no one said laxus is stronger than erza, why he has never beaten erza, or anyone who has beaten erza before before 100 year quest. you people saw, what you wanted to see. mishma made no mention that erza has finally reached laxus level, though he hinted that laxus has reached erza level
it does matter. since you believe that card about Ogra being the strongest and no card about minerva, shows clearly she doesnt exist at that time
sting was not stronger than her. stop mixing time.
original ranking of Sabertooth was
Minerva >> Ogra>Sting
that is why minerva was respected that much. that is why minerva nuke was above anything ogra has shown. that is why minerva told Ogra and sting to stay clear of kagura and did not include laxus in that list
original sting (without pof) is most likely above cobra
i believe she made that statement to make a point that fairies and phantom are around each other in power, no?
i found it
sorry @Axiomus Its exactly like marakrov statement. Mira made that statement before jura and jellal started their fight. jura had done literally nothing infront mira. chapter 273. i third or forth last page of that chapter
Now, would you admit you were wrong. would you admit its just like markarov statement vs ajeel?
i know it is difficult, you believed in these needles fans searched so hard to keep laxus a tier above erza. but surely you can see, mira making that statement before erza and jura showed zilch surely is exact same as markarov statement about ajeel and team natsu
gajeel is comparable to natsu in base and lfd.
as for df, does gray has that. because gray SO doesnt give him df boost.
natsu df is unique. you cant use that to compare three months training with SO
dont understand
selene lost to suzaku
nerfed dogramag lost to combi9ned union of natsu and suzaku.
so, where are you getting that human selene is stronger than nerfed dogramag?
that doesnt make everything that happens in that arc cannon. filler, by definition are meant to give the author time
why can you believe, cobra improved that much. why didnt midnight also improve that much? why didnt bluenote improved that much?
I like how you use two examples where mishma couldnt do anything. angel lost her keys, she had to attack some how. gray took an entire fight to figure out racer wasnt actually fast, but you think one panel against august show his new magic lol
things that could have shown new magic clearly was midnight magic and cobra. both decided to use their weaker cannon magic against august
and no cobra new magic was much superior to his old one, just like midnight one was. they got an upgrade in that filler arc, not a degrade
i understand your point but no. you can replace laxus with serena and you will see what overpowering gajeel looks like. serena countered him. laxus would have straight up tanked everything gajeel throws at him, just like casually blocked kagura swords. no magic needed to defend your self
WSD sting is much more stronger than sting compared to isd gajeel vs gajeel
same kind of hype. markarov made that statment with very little feat, maybe just mp. just like he did ajeel
no gmg jura is weaker than marakarov. he overtook markarov because markarov disappeared.
Markarov didnt shrug off jupiter, he was grievously injured. only reason he kept fight was because of his size. titan wrist is as large as jura. jura entire body will look like titan marakarov wrist.
We know kagura level, you dont need to make new ones. she can casually hit at jupiter cannon level, when sheathed. she can move fast enough that marakrov can barely follow and can tank move which jura claims was above anything he has seen before in this tournament, yes, that included Ogra best
Kagura infact has better durability feat than jura. jura opted to dodge orga attack (which is weaker than minerva nuke) and trick ogra for the win. kagura straight up tanked that nuke which jura himself claimed was above Ogra attack on MPF (is statement of someone this strong is here).
there is a reason minerva put jura and kagura together when telling Sting and Ogra not to approach them, she also didnt include laxus in that list
they can be exactly like laxus and erza were after their fight
you believe, laxus was above erza (even though he has never beaten anyone who erza couldnt beat)
so we know gildarts is above gray (the gap is much larger sure)
now hypothetical scenario
if gray improved and caught up with gildarts, like you believe erza did (despite manga stating exact opposite)
then think in a similiar fight like laxus vs erza, if gray and gildarts fought.
who would comment on whose improvement and who will hold back?
there was no point in the entire serioes where erza improved more than laxus. they were same then, they are same now. there is a reason why no one said laxus is stronger than erza, why he has never beaten erza, or anyone who has beaten erza before before 100 year quest. you people saw, what you wanted to see. mishma made no mention that erza has finally reached laxus level, though he hinted that laxus has reached erza level
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
it does matter. since you believe that card about Ogra being the strongest and no card about minerva, shows clearly she doesnt exist at that time
sting was not stronger than her. stop mixing time.
original ranking of Sabertooth was
Minerva >> Ogra>Sting
that is why minerva was respected that much. that is why minerva nuke was above anything ogra has shown. that is why minerva told Ogra and sting to stay clear of kagura and did not include laxus in that list
original sting (without pof) is most likely above cobra
Erza's statement had nothing to do with power, no.
Sure, I can admit I was wrong about the when Mirajane made her statement. But it hardly matters. Makarov considered that Jura would be a match for Gildarts.
3 months of training only made Gajeel comparable to base Natsu. He had to eat Rogue's power for ISD to become comparable to LFD Natsu. Second origin gave Natsu enough MP that he can enter Dragon Force by himself.
Because Dogramag's rocks were no longer unbreakable after the nerf. That's why he turned into his dragon form. Suzaku would have beaten the dragon form if he still had some power left.
Mashima did the storyboard for all the episodes. I believe Cobra grew to be that strong because he was. He was winning against Erza until distracted by Kinana. Cobra's dragonslaying magic was stronger than his sound magic even during the filler arc. He and Erza were evenly matched when he was only using sound magic, and then he started winning when he started using his dragonslaying magic.
Angel had no magic after she lost her keys. That's why Mashima invented the angel magic in the Key of the Starry Night arc, which she kept using in the manga. Racer has a new suit that grants him actual speed. He carried Sorano and ran from Acnologia. That's actual speed.
Makarov got a bruise on his arm. Hades throwing him with chains did more damage. Jupiter simply isnt a threat to Makarov. Jura can snipe Jellal, which is better than blitzing Makarov. And yes, Jura has surpassed Makarov.
Jura simply said "Who here is that strong"? This doesnt imply that Minerva's attack was the strongest he's seen in the tournament. Sema and Fairy Glitter were both stronger. Jellal and Cana simply weren't participants anymore. Orga's best attack came after Minerva's.
The guild card was released as a chapter cover after the GMG arc ended. Sting's guild card talks about him being the guildmaster. Sting is stronger than Minerva after unlocking Power of Emotion. He surpassed human Jiemma, who is above Minerva. Only 2 weeks passed since GMG and Tartaros. Minerva and Jiemma both got a power-ups by becoming a demon. Demon Minerva was considered trash by Mard Geer, whilst Demon Jiemma was considered stronger than all the 9 demon gates. Sting and Rogue killed Jiemma. Sting is simply stronger than Minerva and Kagura. He's flat out stronger than Kagura in Alvarez, and neither of them went out of their way to train over the year.
God Serena trashed ISD Gajeel. WSD Sting beat Larcade. WSD Sting would have to be stronger than ISD Gajeel in order for Larcade and God Serena to be onthe same level. God Serena didnt counter Gajeel. He's just stronger.
There is a point in the series where Laxus was stronger than Erza. It was Tenrou Island. Laxus did better against Hades than all of team Natsu, and his power was what made LFD so strong.
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