Group Group A

[WoWfan]

Ajeel, Gildarts, Erza, Gray

 

[Biri Biri]

Can someone explain to me how sand wizards could be weak to water and have the ability to dry water at the same time?? It bothered me in One Piece, it bothered me in FT. It is just stupid as hell. Ajeel can dry human body. How he can be damaged by water???

The sand user does not come into direct surface contact with the liquid itself with regards to absorbing moisture from the target. The passage of dehydration occurs between direct physical contact with the sand user and the victim. Not the sand user and the liquid. However, sand is fine and lightweight. When it comes into contact with liquid, sand hardens and becomes clumpy. When it's in such a state, it prevents them from dispersing because they are heavy and sticks together. Hence it nullifies their intangibility. If we are being specific, Ajeel is not actually weak to liquids like water. It however negates his intangibility so he can be subsequently struck like just like any other regular person. It is two different mechanism at play here. As for wind, it simply blows sand apart because of how light it is. Tempester, for instance, couldn't do much damage to Gajeel because after he transforms into iron he becomes straight up heavy. This applies to Skullion's Ash DS magic too, because it is susceptible to Wendy's attacks.

Spoiler

Spoiler

@Biri Biri
It isn't about who is stronger in a 1v1 . It's about who will be the last four to survive. Ajeel can hide under Earth or in sand world dealing attrition damage, while someone takes down Elfman

I hear you and understand where you are coming from. Elfman has the greater chance of being one of the last four to survive. Ajeel has never hid under Earth like you claimed. He does not camouflage himself in sand world and bid his time while the rest of the combatants take themselves out. This is the opposite of what actually took place in his fight with Erza. Shortly after he used sand world, Ajeel quickly launched attacks at Erza then appears before her again.

Spoiler

Ajeel has never fought like the way you described. It also contradicts his very personality. Ajeel was very eager to flaunt his strength. In his introduction, he chased down team Natsu relentlessly. Even after he was evidently outclassed by Laxus, he was still keen to continue fighting. He was described as the Spriggan who loves getting into fights the most, and he ended up being the one who took the initiative to lead the first wave of invasion on Ishgar.

Spoiler

Dude has a chip on his shoulder. He proclaimed himself as God and wanted Erza to revere him as such. His character was written as a pompous fool who seeks out whoever he thinks is the strongest, then underestimates them. That was a huge factor why he lost to Erza and Bisca, then Elfman and Lisanna. Your argument that Ajeel will be hiding in his sand quietly and slowly biding his time while the rest of the combatants defeat each other is impossible. This would be likely if you are referring to a cunning strategist like Invel, or Minerva during the GMG. Because that was how they fought. While a brash, arrogant fool like Ajeel who thinks of himself as stronger than August is far likelier to seek out Gildarts in this fight's setting.

And there's many ways that Ajeel can be defeated in this group. Gildarts can destroy mountains casually, so he will blow away sand world with any of his punches. The same punch will also take Ajeel himself out too. And unlike her fight in Alvarez, Erza's wind and water swords will not be restricted by Marin until the end of the fight. She has since became stronger too, so she will easily defeat Ajeel now. Gray can probably freeze a huge volume of the sand, giving him the window of opportunity to defeat Ajeel with an zeroth destruction bow/fist. Cana possess prayer's fountain to negate Ajeel's intangibility. This can take Ajeel by surprise, and she can follow it up with Fairy Glitter. Elfman would be delighted if Ajeel was to use sand world due to his sand beast takeover, the terrain will turn into his natural habitat where he can thrive in.

The odds are stacked against Ajeel here.

Why are you using quotation marks like I actually said sucker punch? I said he attacked her from behind, and then you straight up just show a panel of exactly that happening, and pretend that's good for Elfman? Ok...

Correct me if I'm mistaken. You mention Elfman attacking Seilah from behind. The term 'sucker punch' is often referred to when somebody is caught off-guard and taken by surprise. Hence I alluded to the term 'sucker punch' because I thought that was what you meant. Apologies if it isn't. My point was that Elfman did not in any way resorted to any cheap tricks or underhanded tactics when he defeated limit release Seilah. Seilah was not caught off guard from Elfman's attack because Mira was visibly defeated while laying hapless on the ground. The 1 v 1 fight between them both has been concluded and Seilah was then pissed off at Mira's attempt to use takeover on her. Hence she wanted to use her demonic eyes blast to decimate her. Mira then made known to Seilah that she was misleading her, and rather than taking over her, she was actually trying to take over her Macro ability. Elfman then made his presence known. There was some considerable distance when Elfman appeared in the air and Seilah evidently sensed his presence. However before she could put up any kind of defense or just side stepped herself out of the way, Elfman proceed to beat her. She could not react to his speed in time, and her durability was not good enough to take that one hit from Elfman.

Anyway, how would Elfman realistically survive more than like 10 seconds in this group? Other than maybe Cana, he's the slowest character here, and someone like GIldarts would just one-shot him right out the gate. Ajeel has sand world to use and hide in, and actually decent attacks and hax that could let him outlast the rest, til the last 4 at least.

It's simple friend. By virtue of fact that he is significantly stronger than Ajeel.

The gap between Gray and Elfman is a lot slimmer than the gap between Elfman and Ajeel. Elfman could match Madmole in combat. If neither Skullion nor Madmole could not defeat him in a lengthy fight, I struggle to think how Ajeel could come close to doing so. A FDK Demo fist could OHKO a fellow Spriggan like Jacob. Ajeel is a regular Spriggan too, hence he should scale to roughly the same level. Yet the same attack was not only easily tanked by Madmole, but injure Natsu himself in the process. Skullion could defeat Gray too, but couldn't defeat Elfman. Mira being there helps of course. However, it's important to take note that Elfman himself was not defeated. It wasn't a 2 v 2 fight where only Mira was left standing at the end. There wasn't even any selective distinction made by Skullion or Madmole that the female was powerful but the guy was not. They remarked on how strong Mira and Elfman were as a group. Mashima has built up Elfman as a powerhouse, and I think it's time we give him the credit he fully deserves.

It takes a real man to vote for Efman!

 

[grey matter]

I hear you and understand where you are coming from. Elfman has the greater chance of being one of the last four to survive. Ajeel has never hid under Earth like you claimed. He does not camouflage himself in sand world and bid his time while the rest of the combatants take themselves out. This is the opposite of what actually took place in his fight with Erza. Shortly after he used sand world, Ajeel quickly launched attacks at Erza then appears before her again.

Spoiler

Ajeel has never fought like the way you described. It also contradicts his very personality. Ajeel was very eager to flaunt his strength. In his introduction, he chased down team Natsu relentlessly. Even after he was evidently outclassed by Laxus, he was still keen to continue fighting. He was described as the Spriggan who loves getting into fights the most, and he ended up being the one who took the initiative to lead the first wave of invasion on Ishgar.

Spoiler

Dude has a chip on his shoulder. He proclaimed himself as God and wanted Erza to revere him as such. His character was written as a pompous fool who seeks out whoever he thinks is the strongest, then underestimates them. That was a huge factor why he lost to Erza and Bisca, then Elfman and Lisanna. Your argument that Ajeel will be hiding in his sand quietly and slowly biding his time while the rest of the combatants defeat each other is impossible. This would be likely if you are referring to a cunning strategist like Invel, or Minerva during the GMG. Because that was how they fought. While a brash, arrogant fool like Ajeel who thinks of himself as stronger than August is far likelier to seek out Gildarts in this fight's setting.

And there's many ways that Ajeel can be defeated in this group. Gildarts can destroy mountains casually, so he will blow away sand world with any of his punches. The same punch will also take Ajeel himself out too. And unlike her fight in Alvarez, Erza's wind and water swords will not be restricted by Marin until the end of the fight. She has since became stronger too, so she will easily defeat Ajeel now. Gray can probably freeze a huge volume of the sand, giving him the window of opportunity to defeat Ajeel with an zeroth destruction bow/fist. Cana possess prayer's fountain to negate Ajeel's intangibility. This can take Ajeel by surprise, and she can follow it up with Fairy Glitter. Elfman would be delighted if Ajeel was to use sand world due to his sand beast takeover, the terrain will turn into his natural habitat where he can thrive in.

The odds are stacked against Ajeel here.

Sure he hasn't hid in ground, but he can. He's sandman, can turn into sand, manipulate sand and can assimilate with sand. No reason why he couldn't just go into ground.

Ajeel becomes the sand world. He can instantly appear anywhere he pleases within the sand world.
The reason he materialized to attack Erza was because he was confident that he was superior to her in combat, within the sand world. And he proved he was.
But if he hypothetically faced someone much stronger than him in pure stats, he would just assimilate with sand world and deal damage through attrition,

We aren't talking about Ajeel "in character" here. If he's in character and gets cocky, sure I suppose he goes down earlier than Elfman.
The rules state that we ignore CIS/PIS and assume characters use their abilities in the best way possible.

Nobody in the group except Gildarts has the AOE to deal with sand world.
And MAYBE Gray, if I'm being generous.

The win condition of Elfman is dependent on :
1. Ajeel being cocky and idiotic. That's CIS, no CIS in this fantasy battle.
2. In case of no CIS, it depends on Gildarts using an AOE nuke > Ajeel's city size+ sand world. I don't see why Gildarts would put in so much effort for Ajeel when he has other opponents, like Elfman, in front of him who he can take down with much lesser effort. Ajeel can just be smart and not provoke Gildarts until Gildarts takes down others.

I didn't say Ajeel won't be defeated in this group.
Once Gildarts knock everyone out, he'll simply just nuke the entire sand world to take him out too. Either way, Ajeel honestly has a chance to be the 2nd last person standing in the free for all, simply because of his abilities

 

[Valhalla]

In a battle royal, like some already pointed out, Ajeel has quite the favorable position. His abilities are pretty good for crowd control, confusion, and weakening the enemies bit by bit. Sure Elfman might conter him, but Elfman is quite literally a sitting duck in this battle. The biggest of them all, and one of the slowest, so he would be done in by a funny onslaught from all sides by Gildarts, Gray, Erza and even Kagura since her sword gets stronger with bloodlust. Elfman is sturdy as shown, but not that sturdy.

Cana also wouldnt do much in this battle since her strongest attack is pretty slow. She would get downed by anyone here by the time her spell activates. And her spell can even fail if she herself if affected by something, like how Bluenote used his gravity to make her miss. Kagura alone would down Cana pretty easily.

I dont see Nebal that impressive, though he would be a bit difficult to deal with if he fully turned into a dragon. But turning into a dragon takes time, and when he starts to turn he basically turns into a lunatic/idiot without any strategic though. So another target practice begging to be killed by either Erza, Gildarts or Gray.

Because the characters are bloodlusted and there is no PoF, Kagura is a real wild card. Her sword gets more powerful with bloodlust. And her gravity powers could slow down some characters, even for a little bit, so that an unsheathed Archenemy with full bloodlust can maybe hit or graze faster characters.

Its quite the interesting battle royal, but i would say the 4 that would go through are:
Gildarts
Grey
Erza
Ajeel

 

[grey matter]

In a battle royal, like some already pointed out, Ajeel has quite the favorable position. His abilities are pretty good for crowd control, confusion, and weakening the enemies bit by bit. Sure Elfman might conter him, but Elfman is quite literally a sitting duck in this battle. The biggest of them all, and one of the slowest, so he would be done in by a funny onslaught from all sides by Gildarts, Gray, Erza and even Kagura since her sword gets stronger with bloodlust. Elfman is sturdy as shown, but not that sturdy.

Cana also wouldnt do much in this battle since her strongest attack is pretty slow. She would get downed by anyone here by the time her spell activates. And her spell can even fail if she herself if affected by something, like how Bluenote used his gravity to make her miss. Kagura alone would down Cana pretty easily.

I dont see Nebal that impressive, though he would be a bit difficult to deal with if he fully turned into a dragon. But turning into a dragon takes time, and when he starts to turn he basically turns into a lunatic/idiot without any strategic though. So another target practice begging to be killed by either Erza, Gildarts or Gray.

Because the characters are bloodlusted and there is no PoF, Kagura is a real wild card. Her sword gets more powerful with bloodlust. And her gravity powers could slow down some characters, even for a little bit, so that her an unsheathed Archenemy with full bloodlust can maybe hit or graze faster characters.

Its quite the interesting battle royal, but i would say the 4 that would go through are:
Gildarts
Grey
Erza
Ajeel

The point about Kagura is interesting, didn't really think about it. But ultimately, I think the difference between her and the top people here is too much, even for a buffed Archenemy to overcome.

And yeah, Cana and Nebal are pretty much non factors here.
Cana is fodder except for FG.
Nebal may get powerful later, but like you said it takes time. His initial stage of DF needed multiple blows to put down Wendy, while Kyria casually one shotted Wendy. Meaning Nebal gets taken down by the top mages here before he gets to any powerful form.

 

[Itsnever2k]

Correct me if I'm mistaken. You mention Elfman attacking Seilah from behind. The term 'sucker punch' is often referred to when somebody is caught off-guard and taken by surprise. Hence I alluded to the term 'sucker punch' because I thought that was what you meant. Apologies if it isn't. My point was that Elfman did not in any way resorted to any cheap tricks or underhanded tactics when he defeated limit release Seilah. Seilah was not caught off guard from Elfman's attack because Mira was visibly defeated while laying hapless on the ground. The 1 v 1 fight between them both has been concluded and Seilah was then pissed off at Mira's attempt to use takeover on her. Hence she wanted to use her demonic eyes blast to decimate her. Mira then made known to Seilah that she was misleading her, and rather than taking over her, she was actually trying to take over her Macro ability. Elfman then made his presence known. There was some considerable distance when Elfman appeared in the air and Seilah evidently sensed his presence. However before she could put up any kind of defense or just side stepped herself out of the way, Elfman proceed to beat her. She could not react to his speed in time, and her durability was not good enough to take that one hit from Elfman.



It's simple friend. By virtue of fact that he is significantly stronger than Ajeel.

The gap between Gray and Elfman is a lot slimmer than the gap between Elfman and Ajeel. Elfman could match Madmole in combat. If neither Skullion nor Madmole could not defeat him in a lengthy fight, I struggle to think how Ajeel could come close to doing so. A FDK Demo fist could OHKO a fellow Spriggan like Jacob. Ajeel is a regular Spriggan too, hence he should scale to roughly the same level. Yet the same attack was not only easily tanked by Madmole, but injure Natsu himself in the process. Skullion could defeat Gray too, but couldn't defeat Elfman. Mira being there helps of course. However, it's important to take note that Elfman himself was not defeated. It wasn't a 2 v 2 fight where only Mira was left standing at the end. There wasn't even any selective distinction made by Skullion or Madmole that the female was powerful but the guy was not. They remarked on how strong Mira and Elfman were as a group. Mashima has built up Elfman as a powerhouse, and I think it's time we give him the credit he fully deserves.

It takes a real man to vote for Efman!

It's just the way you use quotation marks implies I said it, when I never used the phrase sucker punch, no big deal. I didn't say he used cheap tricks, I just said he hit her from behind. The manga panels literally show Elfman punching her in the back, which is exactly what I said happened. Elfman is canonically slower than Lisanna, and by a lot. Unless you're seriously trying to argue Seilah is slower than Lisanna, you have to acknowledge in a fair fight Elfman gets washed by Seilah. Seilah was 100% caught off guard by Elfman's attack, otherwise he never gets close.

Madmole has no real attack feats. He just has crazy durability. The fact he survives getting hit with FDK fist has no bearing on his attack power, just that he has crazy good durability. Please show a panel of Elfman damaging Madmole, and I will concede Elfman has higher attack stats than I give him credit for. Even if there was no distinction made by the dragon eaters, there was also no distinction made by the strauss siblings over who's stronger between Madmole and Skullion, even though Skullion is stronger. Gray also says he was scared of Mira after he beat her, but makes no mention of Elfman. In fact it was literally a running joke that Mira was there, so things would be ok, Lucy has to remind them that Elfman even exists. I really don't see what makes you think he's been built by Mashima as a powerhouse, when he's never had an on screen fight that's made him look like one. It's literally just people's head canon that he injured Madmole, and other than that, Elfman just has some decent durability feats.

I just don't see an argument though as to how he outlast's Ajeel, when he is slow, again canonically slower than Lisanna, who Lucy kept up with when not even in her faster forms. Elfman would be easy pickings for someone like GIldarts, who would just one shot him in seconds. Ajeel could at least hide out in his sand world, and has good hax.

 

[Zero001]

Gildarts, Gray and Erza are obvious choices the fourth I am not so sure but I will say Ajeel, Elfman could be an option but all his last fights are off screen and inexplicable like those of his sister Mira that I find it difficult to trust the level of them

 

[grey matter]

Gildarts, Gray and Erza are obvious choices the fourth I am not so sure but I will say Ajeel, Elfman could be an option but all his last fights are off screen and inexplicable like those of his sister Mira that I find it difficult to trust the level of them

Honestly this.

I mean, it's clear what Mashima is trying to portray here. He is basically portraying that he's keeping up somewhat with the powerhouses of the guild, and the gap between him and his sister is probably as low as it has ever been.

But the fact that both of his best feats were offscreen is a serious issue we face when trying to scale his stats.

- feat against Ajeel.
There is no explanation of how this transpired. All we saw was that Elfman transformed to sand beast which was resistant/immune to sand, Ajeel trapped him in pit, Lissana got him to escape. Next thing we see after a few chapters is Ajeel on the ground, with zero explanation.
Elfman maybe immune to sand, but Ajeel is immune to physical as well. So how exactly did Elfman knock him down? Even if we assume that Elfman's sand beat somehow bypassed Ajeel's immunity since he counters sand users (headcanon), Ajeel could simply move away to anywhere within sand world. Sand world occupies a city+ AOE, Ajeel can simply ignore Elfman and move onto fight someone else

- feat against Madmole.
What happened on screen was Elfman trying to punch Madmole with lion beast, get damage reflected, and get immediately knocked out of lion form. While Madmole took zero damage.
Few chapters later we see a single panel of Madmole/Skullion fighting Mira/Elfman.
Few more chapters later, we see all 4 moderately injured, unable to put each others down. No explanation as to how any of this transpired, again!
Madmole was someone who no sold FDK demo fist, one of Natsu's strongest attacks (no DF). He had to resort to heat, and not destructive power, to damage Madmole. I find it ridiculous to assume that Elfman hits harder than a demo fist, so the entire off screen battle seems weird AF to me.

Now, what's written below is what I THINK happened. It's headcanon, but it makes logical sense to me.
Madmole is armour dragon. The way he hardens his skin is similar to how Natsu produces fire, he uses his DS magic to do so. His insane defence is a direct result of the nature of his power, i.e it's not his natural defence stat.
So, what might have happened was, Elfman vs Madmole lasted long enough that Madmole started running low on magic power. Which meant, he no longer could produce the defence that can no sell attacks like FDK demo fist or lion beast's attacks. Hence he started taking damage from Elfman.
This is my explanation of how the entire fight had transpired. It wasn't because Elfman hits harder than demo fist, but because Madmole's defences eventually gave way.

What do you guys think?

 

[Orphan Prince]

Honestly this.

I mean, it's clear what Mashima is trying to portray here. He is basically portraying that he's keeping up somewhat with the powerhouses of the guild, and the gap between him and his sister is probably as low as it has ever been.

But the fact that both of his best feats were offscreen is a serious issue we face when trying to scale his stats.

- feat against Ajeel.
There is no explanation of how this transpired. All we saw was that Elfman transformed to sand beast which was resistant/immune to sand, Ajeel trapped him in pit, Lissana got him to escape. Next thing we see after a few chapters is Ajeel on the ground, with zero explanation.
Elfman maybe immune to sand, but Ajeel is immune to physical as well. So how exactly did Elfman knock him down? Even if we assume that Elfman's sand beat somehow bypassed Ajeel's immunity since he counters sand users (headcanon), Ajeel could simply move away to anywhere within sand world. Sand world occupies a city+ AOE, Ajeel can simply ignore Elfman and move onto fight someone else

- feat against Madmole.
What happened on screen was Elfman trying to punch Madmole with lion beast, get damage reflected, and get immediately knocked out of lion form. While Madmole took zero damage.
Few chapters later we see a single panel of Madmole/Skullion fighting Mira/Elfman.
Few more chapters later, we see all 4 moderately injured, unable to put each others down. No explanation as to how any of this transpired, again!
Madmole was someone who no sold FDK demo fist, one of Natsu's strongest attacks (no DF). He had to resort to heat, and not destructive power, to damage Madmole. I find it ridiculous to assume that Elfman hits harder than a demo fist, so the entire off screen battle seems weird AF to me.

Now, what's written below is what I THINK happened. It's headcanon, but it makes logical sense to me.
Madmole is armour dragon. The way he hardens his skin is similar to how Natsu produces fire, he uses his DS magic to do so. His insane defence is a direct result of the nature of his power, i.e it's not his natural defence stat.
So, what might have happened was, Elfman vs Madmole lasted long enough that Madmole started running low on magic power. Which meant, he no longer could produce the defence that can no sell attacks like FDK demo fist or lion beast's attacks. Hence he started taking damage from Elfman.
This is my explanation of how the entire fight had transpired. It wasn't because Elfman hits harder than demo fist, but because Madmole's defences eventually gave way.

What do you guys think?

This.

We know Elfman is strong, but we don't know how he won/stalemated so it's difficult to debate how exactly he wins other than "he beat so and so."

 

[Zero001]

Honestly this.

I mean, it's clear what Mashima is trying to portray here. He is basically portraying that he's keeping up somewhat with the powerhouses of the guild, and the gap between him and his sister is probably as low as it has ever been.

But the fact that both of his best feats were offscreen is a serious issue we face when trying to scale his stats.

- feat against Ajeel.
There is no explanation of how this transpired. All we saw was that Elfman transformed to sand beast which was resistant/immune to sand, Ajeel trapped him in pit, Lissana got him to escape. Next thing we see after a few chapters is Ajeel on the ground, with zero explanation.
Elfman maybe immune to sand, but Ajeel is immune to physical as well. So how exactly did Elfman knock him down? Even if we assume that Elfman's sand beat somehow bypassed Ajeel's immunity since he counters sand users (headcanon), Ajeel could simply move away to anywhere within sand world. Sand world occupies a city+ AOE, Ajeel can simply ignore Elfman and move onto fight someone else

- feat against Madmole.
What happened on screen was Elfman trying to punch Madmole with lion beast, get damage reflected, and get immediately knocked out of lion form. While Madmole took zero damage.
Few chapters later we see a single panel of Madmole/Skullion fighting Mira/Elfman.
Few more chapters later, we see all 4 moderately injured, unable to put each others down. No explanation as to how any of this transpired, again!
Madmole was someone who no sold FDK demo fist, one of Natsu's strongest attacks (no DF). He had to resort to heat, and not destructive power, to damage Madmole. I find it ridiculous to assume that Elfman hits harder than a demo fist, so the entire off screen battle seems weird AF to me.

Now, what's written below is what I THINK happened. It's headcanon, but it makes logical sense to me.
Madmole is armour dragon. The way he hardens his skin is similar to how Natsu produces fire, he uses his DS magic to do so. His insane defence is a direct result of the nature of his power, i.e it's not his natural defence stat.
So, what might have happened was, Elfman vs Madmole lasted long enough that Madmole started running low on magic power. Which meant, he no longer could produce the defence that can no sell attacks like FDK demo fist or lion beast's attacks. Hence he started taking damage from Elfman.
This is my explanation of how the entire fight had transpired. It wasn't because Elfman hits harder than demo fist, but because Madmole's defences eventually gave way.

What do you guys think?

That could really be a way of explaining what happened in that fight. Because the only way to explain what happened is that their technique had some weakness, although we probably won't know because I think this trio stopped being relevant after how horrible they were used in the Aldoron arc

 

[Itsnever2k]

Honestly this.

I mean, it's clear what Mashima is trying to portray here. He is basically portraying that he's keeping up somewhat with the powerhouses of the guild, and the gap between him and his sister is probably as low as it has ever been.

But the fact that both of his best feats were offscreen is a serious issue we face when trying to scale his stats.

- feat against Ajeel.
There is no explanation of how this transpired. All we saw was that Elfman transformed to sand beast which was resistant/immune to sand, Ajeel trapped him in pit, Lissana got him to escape. Next thing we see after a few chapters is Ajeel on the ground, with zero explanation.
Elfman maybe immune to sand, but Ajeel is immune to physical as well. So how exactly did Elfman knock him down? Even if we assume that Elfman's sand beat somehow bypassed Ajeel's immunity since he counters sand users (headcanon), Ajeel could simply move away to anywhere within sand world. Sand world occupies a city+ AOE, Ajeel can simply ignore Elfman and move onto fight someone else

- feat against Madmole.
What happened on screen was Elfman trying to punch Madmole with lion beast, get damage reflected, and get immediately knocked out of lion form. While Madmole took zero damage.
Few chapters later we see a single panel of Madmole/Skullion fighting Mira/Elfman.
Few more chapters later, we see all 4 moderately injured, unable to put each others down. No explanation as to how any of this transpired, again!
Madmole was someone who no sold FDK demo fist, one of Natsu's strongest attacks (no DF). He had to resort to heat, and not destructive power, to damage Madmole. I find it ridiculous to assume that Elfman hits harder than a demo fist, so the entire off screen battle seems weird AF to me.

Now, what's written below is what I THINK happened. It's headcanon, but it makes logical sense to me.
Madmole is armour dragon. The way he hardens his skin is similar to how Natsu produces fire, he uses his DS magic to do so. His insane defence is a direct result of the nature of his power, i.e it's not his natural defence stat.
So, what might have happened was, Elfman vs Madmole lasted long enough that Madmole started running low on magic power. Which meant, he no longer could produce the defence that can no sell attacks like FDK demo fist or lion beast's attacks. Hence he started taking damage from Elfman.
This is my explanation of how the entire fight had transpired. It wasn't because Elfman hits harder than demo fist, but because Madmole's defences eventually gave way.

What do you guys think?

This makes way more sense to me than Elfman somehow hitting that much harder than FDK fist, when he's only ever just thtown regular punches, which haven't done anything crazy.

 

[Ronin31]

Gildarts, Erza, Grey and Ajeel are unmatch here with some mergin. Elfman is strong but still can't compete

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Aug 4, 2021 ---

I saw many debate about Elfman. I was also hesitating. Elfman is quite tough with physicals attribute being high tier level of the Guild.
I can see him as physically equal to Mirajane since GmG and perhaps stronger, Mirajane having edge of speed and AoE vaccums.

But yes, many of his fights were offscreen so we can't really speak about them. For sure, Ajeel had the edge by mergin during his fight vs Elfman+Lisanna, saying they are weak. So Ajeel was using his cocky mind and underestimated him, without using Sand World on "weaklings" (there was no sand tempest who recovered the country again before he lost). A win is a win, but yes, Ajeel didn't use the same level as when he faced Erza.

It's pretty unclear how he could "scratch" Mardmole as well : with his werelion, current strongest beast form, he broke his hand with zero effect, just like Natsu's FDK Punch. As shown currently, Elfman has no stronger weaponeries so how can he damage his Armor ? Or perhaps Mardmole's durability is lesser when his magic is too many spent ? Same for Skullion and Mirajane who couldn't dealt any damage to his "Logia's body" but could give scratches at the end of the fight. For me it's more due to the magic spent because neither of them could damage them on screen.

Elfman is strong, but by stats, he can't compete with Gildarts, Erza, Grey (more versatile and smart) and Ajeel as well who can hide, blind all the people in the Area and wait until the end of the Battle Royale.

 

[Biri Biri]

Sure he hasn't hid in ground, but he can. He's sandman, can turn into sand, manipulate sand and can assimilate with sand. No reason why he couldn't just go into ground.

Ajeel becomes the sand world. He can instantly appear anywhere he pleases within the sand world.
The reason he materialized to attack Erza was because he was confident that he was superior to her in combat, within the sand world. And he proved he was.
But if he hypothetically faced someone much stronger than him in pure stats, he would just assimilate with sand world and deal damage through attrition,

We aren't talking about Ajeel "in character" here. If he's in character and gets cocky, sure I suppose he goes down earlier than Elfman.
The rules state that we ignore CIS/PIS and assume characters use their abilities in the best way possible.

Nobody in the group except Gildarts has the AOE to deal with sand world.
And MAYBE Gray, if I'm being generous.

The win condition of Elfman is dependent on :
1. Ajeel being cocky and idiotic. That's CIS, no CIS in this fantasy battle.
2. In case of no CIS, it depends on Gildarts using an AOE nuke > Ajeel's city size+ sand world. I don't see why Gildarts would put in so much effort for Ajeel when he has other opponents, like Elfman, in front of him who he can take down with much lesser effort. Ajeel can just be smart and not provoke Gildarts until Gildarts takes down others.

I didn't say Ajeel won't be defeated in this group.
Once Gildarts knock everyone out, he'll simply just nuke the entire sand world to take him out too. Either way, Ajeel honestly has a chance to be the 2nd last person standing in the free for all, simply because of his abilities

Isn't that pure speculation if Ajeel has never shown he is capable of hiding underground? It is not a feat he has displayed. How is that any different to the 'organ burst gg' claims that Brandish's fans love to say? Similar to Ajeel, characters like Juvia and Laxus can fully transform their physical bodies into elements such as water and lightning, respectively. That, however, does not grant them the ability to hide underground. On the other hand, characters like Sol from Element 4 and Hoteye can actually merge with the Earth to travel underground. So does Virgo because that is her specialty.

And this has got nothing to do with the element they wield because Jura manipulates Earth and could bend the ground to his will. However, he can't hide underground either. While Rogue, Gajeel, future Rogue and Sting with white shadow DS magic are able to sink underground and access the shadow world to move within it despite being non-sand or Earth related magic users. It is what they can, and cannot do. It isn't fair to the rest of the combatants if we are suddenly giving Ajeel feats that he has never shown.

There is no CiS/PiS involved here when I say Ajeel is not going to assimilate into sand world and conceal his presence while letting the rest of the combatants duke it out and bid his time. He is not going to do something like that because it simply goes against everything he was written to be; from his personality to his fighting style/pattern. Ajeel not doing so is not an emotional or psychological impediment that restricts his ability to battle.

The rules wrote;

4. Characters
Restrictions have been applied to some of the participants magic. Sicknesses have been nullified for the fights. All characters are fighting to win at all costs - no emotional or psychological impediment will restrict their ability to battle. (added) No character is allowed preparation for the battle - spells such as runes can only be cast during the fight; and any wizard with modes/transformations start in their base state.

An example of emotional or psychological impediment would be when Makarov fought Hades on tenrou island, and he was visibly shaken to see his former mentor as the chief culprit behind the attack on FT. Makarov stated he had no intention of fighting Hades and hence, pulled his punches. Or when Gray couldn't bring himself to attack Happy or Carla after they were transformed into Suiko by Youko's Hyakki Yagyō. But the participants are still in their usual character.

Ajeel went all out against Erza and right after he whipped out sand world, he meld into his sandstorm to move behind Erza then immediately used Raml Sayf to knock her back. Then he grabs Erza by her throat to dehydrate her and in doing so had to completely reappear from within the sandstorm that allowed Bisca to hit him with jupiter cannon from afar. He was fighting to win at all costs and did not hide inside the sandstorm for any prolonged duration. We don't know if that is because he has a limitation to how long he can meld within it. What we do know is Ajeel always assimilates within his sandstorm just briefly for the purpose of outmaneuvering his foe. He is proactive and likes taking the battle to you. The stronger his foes are, the more excited he is to fight them. That was not CiS/PiS, or any kind of unfair handicap placed on Ajeel. It's simply Ajeel's nature and how he does battle.

What you are doing here is giving Ajeel a new identity with a different attitude and fighting style than the one who was written in FT. And this identity that you create retains all his powers and abilities, but employs them in a manner that he had never done so. This is no different than what Brandish's fans likes saying all the time when it comes to 'organ burst gg lulz'. What I did was assessing each combatants base on what they had factually shown in the manga in their past fights. While taking into account how they usually battle.

@Brandish μ @Kiki @Axiomus Can we kindly have some clarification please? Do we determine which participants advance by the feats and fighting style they have shown while trying their best to win. Or do we disregard their characters in the story and pick base on what we assume they can potentially pull off?

It's just the way you use quotation marks implies I said it, when I never used the phrase sucker punch, no big deal. I didn't say he used cheap tricks, I just said he hit her from behind. The manga panels literally show Elfman punching her in the back, which is exactly what I said happened. Elfman is canonically slower than Lisanna, and by a lot. Unless you're seriously trying to argue Seilah is slower than Lisanna, you have to acknowledge in a fair fight Elfman gets washed by Seilah. Seilah was 100% caught off guard by Elfman's attack, otherwise he never gets close.

Madmole has no real attack feats. He just has crazy durability. The fact he survives getting hit with FDK fist has no bearing on his attack power, just that he has crazy good durability. Please show a panel of Elfman damaging Madmole, and I will concede Elfman has higher attack stats than I give him credit for. Even if there was no distinction made by the dragon eaters, there was also no distinction made by the strauss siblings over who's stronger between Madmole and Skullion, even though Skullion is stronger. Gray also says he was scared of Mira after he beat her, but makes no mention of Elfman. In fact it was literally a running joke that Mira was there, so things would be ok, Lucy has to remind them that Elfman even exists. I really don't see what makes you think he's been built by Mashima as a powerhouse, when he's never had an on screen fight that's made him look like one. It's literally just people's head canon that he injured Madmole, and other than that, Elfman just has some decent durability feats.

I just don't see an argument though as to how he outlast's Ajeel, when he is slow, again canonically slower than Lisanna, who Lucy kept up with when not even in her faster forms. Elfman would be easy pickings for someone like GIldarts, who would just one shot him in seconds. Ajeel could at least hide out in his sand world, and has good hax.

Seems that we are unable to agree on the Seilah part because we have a fundamental difference in our belief to what is fair and what is not. For me, an attack like that is not unfair because the target had sensed and perceived an attack is going to come. There was a considerable distance between Elfman and Seilah that Elfman had to close and cover then deliver the blow. During which if Seilah was quick enough, she should be able to dodge or put up a defense to block it. To give an example, Natsu had the same thing happened to him here, and I don't think this is unfair either. In contrast to Seilah, he was quick enough to turn and parry Gajeel's attacks.

Spoiler

What I define as unfair is Gray's loss to Bixlow in the fighting festival arc, when he was trapped in Freed's jutsu shiki that forbade him from using any magic. Or his fight with the Raijinshuu in the 100YQ when he was restricted to using any form of ice magic. Or when Erza was unable to access half of her weapons and armoury from Requip in her fight with Ajeel due to the effect of Marin's magic. Those are what I regard as unfair. Since our stance won't change, let's agree to disagree and move on from the Seilah part.

Madmole's offensive strength is not headcanon!

He grabbed and threw Natsu onto a ship. Before you go downplaying his feats again, this level of strength drew compliment from Natsu of all people. When was the last time we saw Natsu being manhandled like this?

Spoiler

Madmole's punch also overpowered Natsu's attack.

Spoiler

He then knocked an enraged Mira back.

Spoiler

Compare Elfman's toned down reaction when he was hurt from punching Madmole, to Natsu throwing his head back while screaming in agony each time.

Spoiler

You have downplayed all of the previous feats I gave you as evidence of Elfman's strength. I hope you don't do the same to Madmole too please.

- x792 Natsu one-shotted a Spriggan in Jacob with FDK demo fist
- x792 Elfman defeated Ajeel with Lisanna's assistance
*A year later and characters can make huge improvements in a year's time*

Spoiler

- x793 Natsu hurt himself while using FDK demo fist against Madmole. Newly developed spell in FDK Purgatory could only put Madmole down very briefly, but not able to defeat him.
- x793 Gray lost to Skullion
- x793 Elfman and Mira fought Madmole and Skullion to a stalemate, after Elfman and Mira had already been in a fight with Lucy, Loke and Virgo.

Through logical reasoning, it is sensible for us to think that Elfman is above Ajeel's tier.

Honestly this.

I mean, it's clear what Mashima is trying to portray here. He is basically portraying that he's keeping up somewhat with the powerhouses of the guild, and the gap between him and his sister is probably as low as it has ever been.

But the fact that both of his best feats were offscreen is a serious issue we face when trying to scale his stats.

- feat against Ajeel.
There is no explanation of how this transpired. All we saw was that Elfman transformed to sand beast which was resistant/immune to sand, Ajeel trapped him in pit, Lissana got him to escape. Next thing we see after a few chapters is Ajeel on the ground, with zero explanation.
Elfman maybe immune to sand, but Ajeel is immune to physical as well. So how exactly did Elfman knock him down? Even if we assume that Elfman's sand beat somehow bypassed Ajeel's immunity since he counters sand users (headcanon), Ajeel could simply move away to anywhere within sand world. Sand world occupies a city+ AOE, Ajeel can simply ignore Elfman and move onto fight someone else

- feat against Madmole.
What happened on screen was Elfman trying to punch Madmole with lion beast, get damage reflected, and get immediately knocked out of lion form. While Madmole took zero damage.
Few chapters later we see a single panel of Madmole/Skullion fighting Mira/Elfman.
Few more chapters later, we see all 4 moderately injured, unable to put each others down. No explanation as to how any of this transpired, again!
Madmole was someone who no sold FDK demo fist, one of Natsu's strongest attacks (no DF). He had to resort to heat, and not destructive power, to damage Madmole. I find it ridiculous to assume that Elfman hits harder than a demo fist, so the entire off screen battle seems weird AF to me.

Ajeel is not perpetually immune to physical attacks. Otherwise Natsu wouldn't be able to sock him in his face.

Spoiler

And Erza wouldn't be able to push him back and sent him smashing to the ship here.

Spoiler

Like Juvia, Mystogan and Laxus, Ajeel has the ability to turn intangible to prevent some attacks from connecting with his physical body. Similar to logia-type devil fruit users in OP, they have to consciously do so for that to happen. It is not a passive skill. It make zero sense for them to be perpetually intangible because they would not be able to carry on with their daily activities such as physically touching/grabbing something. The only beings that are perpetually intangible in FT are thought projections. The likeliest reason Ajeel lost was because Elfman managed to land a blow on him that he couldn't block or evade, and couldn't get up from. That's why when the story went back to their fight, he was on the laying on the ground.

 

[Itsnever2k]

Seems that we are unable to agree on the Seilah part because we have a fundamental difference in our belief to what is fair and what is not. For me, an attack like that is not unfair because the target had sensed and perceived an attack is going to come. There was a considerable distance between Elfman and Seilah that Elfman had to close and cover then deliver the blow. During which if Seilah was quick enough, she should be able to dodge or put up a defense to block it. To give an example, Natsu had the same thing happened to him here, and I don't think this is unfair either. In contrast to Seilah, he was quick enough to turn and parry Gajeel's attacks.

Spoiler

What I define as unfair is Gray's loss to Bixlow in the fighting festival arc, when he was trapped in Freed's jutsu shiki that forbade him from using any magic. Or his fight with the Raijinshuu in the 100YQ when he was restricted to using any form of ice magic. Or when Erza was unable to access half of her weapons and armoury from Requip in her fight with Ajeel due to the effect of Marin's magic. Those are what I regard as unfair. Since our stance won't change, let's agree to disagree and move on from the Seilah part.

Madmole's offensive strength is not headcanon!

He grabbed and threw Natsu onto a ship. Before you go downplaying his feats again, this level of strength drew compliment from Natsu of all people. When was the last time we saw Natsu being manhandled like this?

Spoiler

Madmole's punch also overpowered Natsu's attack.

Spoiler

He then knocked an enraged Mira back.

Spoiler

Compare Elfman's toned down reaction when he was hurt from punching Madmole, to Natsu throwing his head back while screaming in agony each time.

Spoiler

You have downplayed all of the previous feats I gave you as evidence of Elfman's strength. I hope you don't do the same to Madmole too please.

- x792 Natsu one-shotted a Spriggan in Jacob with FDK demo fist
- x792 Elfman defeated Ajeel with Lisanna's assistance
*A year later and characters can make huge improvements in a year's time*

Spoiler

- x793 Natsu hurt himself while using FDK demo fist against Madmole. Newly developed spell in FDK Purgatory could only put Madmole down very briefly, but not able to defeat him.
- x793 Gray lost to Skullion
- x793 Elfman and Mira fought Madmole and Skullion to a stalemate, after Elfman and Mira had already been in a fight with Lucy, Loke and Virgo.

Through logical reasoning, it is sensible for us to think that Elfman is above Ajeel's tier.

I guess we do, because anyone with common sense knows in a fair fight Elfman in Tartaros gets low-diffed by Seilah, and saying he's so fast she couldn't even react to him is just dumb.

Please, base Natsu get's thrown around all the time. Snake-Lucy was doing it only a few chapters ago

The same thing that happened to Natsu with his FDK punch happened to Elfman when he tried punching Madmole. Even if Natsu showed a greater reaction that again just means Elfman is tough, it shows nothing in terms of attack power. I'll ask again for a panel of Elfman damaging Madmole to prove his attack power, or just any attack Elfman has other than a basic punch that could prove he damaged Madmole, or Skullion for that matter.

I haven't downplayed anything, Elfman just doesn't have any really good on screen feats of attack power, and that's just how it is. Stalemating someone off screen, especially when that character themselves doesn't have crazy offensive feats isn't being built as a powerhouse. Throwing base Natsu into a ship, and throwing Mira back isn't very impressive. Madmole damaging Natsu was from his durability, not attack power.

Why are you acting like the only reason Elfman beat Ajeel wasn't the sand immunity? Ajeel had just come from nearly beating Erza, who is objectively way above Elfman. Even with the sand resistance, you could argue he'd have lost straight away if not for Lisanna flying him out of the sand pit.

To be honest though, none of that even matters. Even if I give you Elfman being a higher tier than Ajeel, which I don't, he still looses before Ajeel in a battle like this, because he's slow, and has a super basic fighting style, where he would be easy pickings for someone like Gildarts, who could just one-shot him as soon as the fight started. Ajeel has sand world, and good hax to let him go further than Elfman.

 

[Brandish μ]

@Brandish μ @Kiki @Axiomus Can we kindly have some clarification please? Do we determine which participants advance by the feats and fighting style they have shown while trying their best to win. Or do we disregard their characters in the story and pick base on what we assume they can potentially pull off?

Maybe this will help:

6. Feats, Portrayal, and Hype.
As a guideline, feats should take precedence. Portrayal and Hype are permitted, it is at your discretion how much they can apply to certain characters.

How a character fights tactically is up for debate.

In the case of Ajeel, he can assimilate with the sand. His fighting style has never indicated he hides in the sand. So how would he approach this battle?

My opinion would be he uses the AoE of the sand to his advantage (eg impair vision, move around the battlefield undetected) rather than simply hide until everyone is weaker.

 

[GL_Nova]

Gildarts
Erza
Grey
Cana

Elfman would be 4 if not for GFM

 

[Kiki]

Gildarts
Erza
Grey
Cana

Elfman would be 4 if not for GFM

oh, having Cana at 4th spot. that's interesting. may I know you reasons?

What is GFM?

 

[GL_Nova]

Ajeel is weak. He lost to Elfman and Lisanna a year ago. Now Elfman is being compared to Mira with his growth. Reinforcing his earlier series placement as relevant to Grey and Natsu, if weaker. That’s plenty to knock out Ajeel.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 5, 2021, Original Post Date: Aug 5, 2021 ---

oh, having Cana at 4th spot. that's interesting. may I know you reasons?

What is GFM?

Great Fairy Magic

 

[grey matter]

Isn't that pure speculation if Ajeel has never shown he is capable of hiding underground? It is not a feat he has displayed. How is that any different to the 'organ burst gg' claims that Brandish's fans love to say? Similar to Ajeel, characters like Juvia and Laxus can fully transform their physical bodies into elements such as water and lightning, respectively. That, however, does not grant them the ability to hide underground. On the other hand, characters like Sol from Element 4 and Hoteye can actually merge with the Earth to travel underground. So does Virgo because that is her specialty.

It's not speculation to say he CAN if we're shown that he can assimilate with sand.
Make the battlefield involve sea, and I have no problem if you say she assimilate with sea and attacking camouflaged. Too bad the battle royal takes place on land lol.
Laxus turning to lightning is limited. He basically uses it only for travel, and never offensively. As far as we know, he isn't capable of attacking while in lighting form, while Ajeel and Juvia have demonstrated that ability.

It is different to Brandish fans saying "organ burst gg" because Ajeel and Juvia are using their abilities on their own elements which can't resist, which they have also demonstrated in live battles. It's more in line with Rouge assimilating with a large shadow.
While saying Brandish "organ burst gg" is similar to saying Jellal ones shots everyone with bind snake or self destruction circle. Or saying Aria one shots everyone with the spell he used on Makarov. Or Mest one shots everyone with his mind control.
Completely different comparisons. One is used on their own element with they have complete control over. The other is used on mages, in which case timing, reaction, precision etc comes into play. One has been demonstrated in live battles, the other was at best demonstrated on off guard opponents.

Hoteye and Sol certainly can. Sol is too much of a fodder for it to make a difference tho, he'd get one shot within a second the fight starts. Hoteye isn't in the battle royal either

And this has got nothing to do with the element they wield because Jura manipulates Earth and could bend the ground to his will. However, he can't hide underground either. While Rogue, Gajeel, future Rogue and Sting with white shadow DS magic are able to sink underground and access the shadow world to move within it despite being non-sand or Earth related magic users. It is what they can, and cannot do. It isn't fair to the rest of the combatants if we are suddenly giving Ajeel feats that he has never shown.

Jura can't assimilate with rocks, Ajeel can with sand

Rouge, Gajeel and FR certainly can. FR can even turn into light lol. I've no problem if you argue the same way towards these characters in their respective battle royals.

Ajeel has shown feats of assimilating with sand. This is a fact.

A significant portion of battlefield is sand. He can canonically assimilate with them.
And either way, it doesn't even really matter. He uses sand world instead and assimilates with a city+ AOE sandstorm. Taking away assimilation with ground away from him is just a minor setback for him, ultimately making no change to the outcome.

There is no CiS/PiS involved here when I say Ajeel is not going to assimilate into sand world and conceal his presence while letting the rest of the combatants duke it out and bid his time. He is not going to do something like that because it simply goes against everything he was written to be; from his personality to his fighting style/pattern. Ajeel not doing so is not an emotional or psychological impediment that restricts his ability to battle.

Ajeel's character itself is CIS lmao, so yeah. The guy in character would straight up go and challenge Gildarts......

I consider Ajeel the mage, and not Ajeel the character. I consider only Ajeel's MP and abelites, not his personality.
And yes, I'm giving him a personality that makes him use his ability with most efficiency.

No emotion = no cockiness, no jumping the gun, no challenging the strongest for adrenaline rush etc.

Ajeel went all out against Erza and right after he whipped out sand world, he meld into his sandstorm to move behind Erza then immediately used Raml Sayf to knock her back. Then he grabs Erza by her throat to dehydrate her and in doing so had to completely reappear from within the sandstorm that allowed Bisca to hit him with jupiter cannon from afar. He was fighting to win at all costs and did not hide inside the sandstorm for any prolonged duration. We don't know if that is because he has a limitation to how long he can meld within it. What we do know is Ajeel always assimilates within his sandstorm just briefly for the purpose of outmaneuvering his foe. He is proactive and likes taking the battle to you. The stronger his foes are, the more excited he is to fight them. That was not CiS/PiS, or any kind of unfair handicap placed on Ajeel. It's simply Ajeel's nature and how he does battle.

Yea, this is how he battles. And it works well on mages who are weaker than him in combat within sand world.
As we saw then, he failed spectacularly against Elfman likely because the dude fought him materialized. Instead of just backing away and moving onto some other opponent he can damage.

Take away the personality and the fight with Erza probably goes as it did, except Ajeel finishing her off fast instead of gloating.
While against Elfman, he could've switched targets with an ally. Jacob was fighting nearby, he could've simply taken over the fight with Mira, and Jacob with Elfman, and both would've won their fights.

What you are doing here is giving Ajeel a new identity with a different attitude and fighting style than the one who was written in FT. And this identity that you create retains all his powers and abilities, but employs them in a manner that he had never done so. This is no different than what Brandish's fans likes saying all the time when it comes to 'organ burst gg lulz'. What I did was assessing each combatants base on what they had factually shown in the manga in their past fights. While taking into account how they usually battle.

Yes. Like I said, I consider Ajeel the mage, not Ajeel the personality.

I've already explained how it's nothing comparable to Brandish's "organ burst gg".

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 5, 2021, Original Post Date: Aug 5, 2021 ---

Ajeel is weak. He lost to Elfman and Lisanna a year ago. Now Elfman is being compared to Mira with his growth. Reinforcing his earlier series placement as relevant to Grey and Natsu, if weaker. That’s plenty to knock out Ajeel.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 5, 2021, Original Post Date: Aug 5, 2021 ---

Great Fairy Magic

Ajeel lost only because he faced a sand immune opponent. And likely because he materialized to fight him for no reason other than his cockiness.
His on screen feat includes mid diffing Erza in combat. It took many blows from Erza's wind/water sword. off guard Jupiter canon and nakagami to take him down. He isn't weak. He just faced someone immune to his only source of damage.

Cana is literal fodder. She gets one shotted by anyone in the group except maybe Kagura and Nebal (who would both low-mid diff her) before she casts Fairy Glitter.
If you think Ajeel is weak and maybe powercreeped, Elfman is the next best IMO, not Cana.

 

[GL_Nova]

It's not speculation to say he CAN if we're shown that he can assimilate with sand.
Make the battlefield involve sea, and I have no problem if you say she assimilate with sea and attacking camouflaged. Too bad the battle royal takes place on land lol.
Laxus turning to lightning is limited. He basically uses it only for travel, and never offensively. As far as we know, he isn't capable of attacking while in lighting form, while Ajeel and Juvia have demonstrated that ability.

It is different to Brandish fans saying "organ burst gg" because Ajeel and Juvia are using their abilities on their own elements which can't resist, which they have also demonstrated in live battles. It's more in line with Rouge assimilating with a large shadow.
While saying Brandish "organ burst gg" is similar to saying Jellal ones shots everyone with bind snake or self destruction circle. Or saying Aria one shots everyone with the spell he used on Makarov. Or Mest one shots everyone with his mind control.
Completely different comparisons. One is used on their own element with they have complete control over. The other is used on mages, in which case timing, reaction, precision etc comes into play. One has been demonstrated in live battles, the other was at best demonstrated on off guard opponents.

Hoteye and Sol certainly can. Sol is too much of a fodder for it to make a difference tho, he'd get one shot within a second the fight starts. Hoteye isn't in the battle royal either


Jura can't assimilate with rocks, Ajeel can with sand

Rouge, Gajeel and FR certainly can. FR can even turn into light lol. I've no problem if you argue the same way towards these characters in their respective battle royals.

Ajeel has shown feats of assimilating with sand. This is a fact.

A significant portion of battlefield is sand. He can canonically assimilate with them.
And either way, it doesn't even really matter. He uses sand world instead and assimilates with a city+ AOE sandstorm. Taking away assimilation with ground away from him is just a minor setback for him, ultimately making no change to the outcome.


Ajeel's character itself is CIS lmao, so yeah. The guy in character would straight up go and challenge Gildarts......

I consider Ajeel the mage, and not Ajeel the character. I consider only Ajeel's MP and abelites, not his personality.
And yes, I'm giving him a personality that makes him use his ability with most efficiency.

No emotion = no cockiness, no jumping the gun, no challenging the strongest for adrenaline rush etc.



Yea, this is how he battles. And it works well on mages who are weaker than him in combat within sand world.
As we saw then, he failed spectacularly against Elfman likely because the dude fought him materialized. Instead of just backing away and moving onto some other opponent he can damage.

Take away the personality and the fight with Erza probably goes as it did, except Ajeel finishing her off fast instead of gloating.
While against Elfman, he could've switched targets with an ally. Jacob was fighting nearby, he could've simply taken over the fight with Mira, and Jacob with Elfman, and both would've won their fights.



Yes. Like I said, I consider Ajeel the mage, not Ajeel the personality.

I've already explained how it's nothing comparable to Brandish's "organ burst gg".

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 5, 2021, Original Post Date: Aug 5, 2021 ---

Ajeel lost only because he faced a sand immune opponent. And likely because he materialized to fight him for no reason other than his cockiness.
His on screen feat includes mid diffing Erza in combat. It took many blows from Erza's wind/water sword. off guard Jupiter canon and nakagami to take him down. He isn't weak. He just faced someone immune to his only source of damage.

Cana is literal fodder. She gets one shotted by anyone in the group except maybe Kagura and Nebal (who would both low-mid diff her) before she casts Fairy Glitter.
If you think Ajeel is weak and maybe powercreeped, Elfman is the next best IMO, not Cana.

An now a year later, Erza and the rest of the main cast have grown by leaps and bounds once more. An Mashima dedicated an entire arc to showing that the rest of FT has put in similar work since Alvarez. Elfman in his Megido Form was able to fight Madmole, who has stood equal to FDK Natsu, to a standstill. He can still transform into that sand immune beast.

She managed to put the only significant damage on August other than Gildarts, and yes she had a type advantage, but that only meant the damage couldn’t be negated. She’s no pushover power wise, and having spent time to learn those drunken martial arts moves is the ultimate lvl up for her. An did you see how fast she dropped FG on Grey ass?