Last 16: Match up 5!: Blackbeard vs. Enel

[0Xellos]

here http://www.mangareader.net/103-2548-15/one-piece/chapter-441.html BB specifically said even light cannot escape his darkness.. And thats a known scientific fact.. Light cannot escape a BLACK HOLE...

Read my post above. If light can't escape, then the area targeted by Kurouzu (not just Kurouzu itself) should turn completely black.

because for black hole mass tends to zero giving it an infinite gravitational force...

Wut? Mass approaching zero should give zero gravitational force, because gravitation is proportional to mass. You're talking inverse proportional.

 

[Josear XIII]

Chill dude... We don't know who MOHAMED ALI is... is he Muhammad Ali? But Enel is no Ali anyway. We're just telling you how could BB win and thazzit! But Unfortunately, you seem to underestimate how powerful Kurouzo is.

http://www1.watchop.com/watch/one-piece-episode-485-english-subbed/ By Kurouzo, that's how BB would use it... negate opponent's fruit... But since he has improved, I could imagine BB using two DFs at the same time. Using Kurouzu then releasing some shockwave thru Gura Gura fruit. That way they would not need physical contact. Even using Gura Gura to the face would be much deadlier even if Enel tries to hit him with his Trident. BB getting hit is no biggie... I believe that Trident's electricity would also be negated.

Dude worry not, I like to argue is fun and it makes me get more laughs than anything, I'm not getting pissed i swear i just tend to get excited in discussions.

Dont worry about the name spelling you got the Idea anyways, and im not saying Enel is Ali, im making a point in which you all have already set into your minds that in this battle its a FACT that Enel will get caught of in touch with BB no matter what if i would bet i would say that BB wins in any event, I dont understimate his DF power, you are overestimating which is worse.

This is your position in this discussion, wait first I'm gonna show you what are you doing that we (or at least me) are not doing:

-You ask me: Dude BB can win against Enel?
-I tell you: In your dreams sucka! :P
-Now you tell me: Dawg if BB grabs Enel, he's over.
-(What i will never tell you): HELL NO! BB would never catch enel, its impossible because facts facts facts facts facts facts.
-What I will tell you: If he is caught, yes he will lose, but now state me a solid strategy WITH facts of how would BB manage this feat.


I do hope someone reads and get my point, I dont think is necessary that i transform this into what is happening here...... im itching to do so..... but i'm not going to just switch the grabs/catch for ZAP and switch BB for enel and the same in Enel's case

Kazu has exposed several points to limit the capabilities of each one, but everyone seems to be underestimating everything he types, why are you so sure BB has the full hang of Gura Gura just because a testament from a crewmate, thats kind of idk, supposing a bit much, since we never got to see gura gura on its full potential. Idk, i feel like im the only one reading Kazu's analysis.

Idk why people get Shanks, or any other heavy hitter into this discussion, focus on the two that are here, you may observe that my opinion may change if he's against someone else. I dont stating his victory IMO, this is logic in the manga to say which would win, anyways most of the time Kazu has already post most of what is in my mind and extra tons of info to back up.

 

[llaubacher]

I am fan of Enel. So far I only had two anime-like desktop screens, and Enel is one of those! I don't give a damn whether Blackbeard is capable of taking lots of damage due to his ability or he can suck up the lightning .. who cares? Enel is an immensely badass character. I know lots of stuff would have to happen for my wish, but I would even be glad to see him as a Strawhat crew member, which is, sadly, highly doubtfull to ever happen.
Thumbs for Enel, he pwns this!

 

[GomuGomu_Getsuga]

Blackbeard would seriously rape Enel. He would suck Enel close to himself and probably one shot him.

 

[0Xellos]

Blackbeard would seriously rape Enel. He would suck Enel close to himself and probably one shot him.

Read the posts above and say that again, along with your reasons. You make it sound as simple as squatting a fly.

 

[Kazu-Sama]

Blackbeard would seriously rape Enel. He would suck Enel close to himself and probably one shot him.

My advice would be to read all my posts - I've pointed out flaws in this argument many, many times.

Also, just because I'm back, I want to say that if BB can actually become immune to fire as has been stated using his Yami Yami no mi, after he got serious vs Ace, then how come the flaming spears went through him and didn't get absorbed. If you're right, and BB can decide to simply absorb all of a DF's user power, then each DF user he's fought against (Ace, Luffy ect) should theoretically only damage him once, max, before he starts absorbing all attacks into darkness. Count how many times Ace actually uses a flaming attack successfully against BB. I can guarantee you it's more than one. I'm not going to track it down myself - I've spent far, far too long recently trawling through Mangahere, Mangareader, and the One Piece wiki - but when BB uses Kurouzo, he's vulnerable. Ace showed it. Now, I think Enel with his 200 million volt attacks, giant lightning dragon, or El Thor (which I've already linked to show just how devastating it is) would be able to do enough damage to BB during his moment of absorbing to at least distract him enough for his Mantra to allow a dodge. He can use his staff as defence, or he can simply use his strength and agility.

On a completely unrelated note, I've been very careful to avoid using certain phrases about BB. It's too easy to get into innuendo when discussing his Black Hole, where the sun don't shine...

 

[Sir Amigo]

Blackbeard would seriously rape Enel. He would suck Enel close to himself and probably one shot him.

Wow, epic facepalm xD

But thats the problem. Most user will vote BB without reading Kazus posts, and without reading any of the other posts. Damn I want Enel to defeat BB, and this would also be the only logical decision.. But there are too many BB fanboys out there.

Now I will go out and one shot my first beer..

 

[Mr. Arashi]

[...]then how do you know BB will survive? Or, at least, be able to fight back.[...]

Because Vergo survived an electrical shock from the inside. He's Vice admiral and Teach is far beyond that level, so i must say that he can overcome any attack that can kill him, thanks to his resistence.

 

[0Xellos]

Because Vergo survived an electrical shock from the inside. He's Vice admiral and Teach is far beyond that level, so i must say that he can overcome any attack that can kill him, thanks to his resistence.

You can't just compare Law's defibrilator thingy with Enel's millions of volts. Resilience is one thing, but Enel's power can't be underestimated, either.

 

[Josear XIII]

Because Vergo survived an electrical shock from the inside. He's Vice admiral and Teach is far beyond that level, so i must say that he can overcome any attack that can kill him, thanks to his resistence.

Yeah because you know, that sparky cable was 3 million voltage, one piece goes round giving millions of volts to any electrical attack, Abductive Reasoning at its peak. Its over 9000

 

[Kazu-Sama]

Yeah because you know, that sparky cable was 3 million voltage, one piece goes round giving millions of volts to any electrical attack, Abductive Reasoning at its peak. Its over 9000

Just for comparison, some of Enel's attacks have been given volts. Julungul, the giant dragon, is 20 times stronger than the move used on Virgo (60,000,000 volts) and Amaru and his most powerful basic shock are at 200 million volts. Virgo, who was proud of his Haki and claimed it was incredibly strong, that even Law's room couldn't cut it, survived 3 million volts. Enel's dishing out 200 million volt lasers in a giant lightning buddha/god form. Bit of a difference...


Also, out of curiousity, can one of the BB supporters give me a detailed overview as to why bb would win? I did one for Enel, and have been trying to provide evidence to counter each point I see, but I don't know what I've missed so far...

 

[SuperPeon]

Old BB < New BB. Old BB = He was pretty much enjoying his skills against Ace which is why Ace was able to hit him. New BB = He was able to block WB's quake. Air should have been faster than fire I believe.

 

[Kazu-Sama]

Old BB < New BB. Old BB = He was pretty much enjoying his skills against Ace which is why Ace was able to hit him. New BB = He was able to block WB's quake. Air should have been faster than fire I believe.

He was surprised at Ace's fire spears. He wasn't letting Ace hit him for the sake of hitting him, Ace surprised him.

As for new BB, if he is as strong as you make him seem why didn't he just arrive at the battle of Marineford, kill WB singlehandedly, then while he was there get the 3 Admirals, Marco, Jozu, Doflamingo, Crocodile, Luffy, Sengoku... He's hunting Devil Fruits. If he can take a hit from full-strength WB without issue, pull anyone in and OHKO them with a punch, and pull in everything and anything he chooses, as you seem to think, then why didn't he take advantage of the incredible number of strong Devil Fruits around, capturing and killing all the users, as opposed to waiting until Whitebeard was practically dead already, having been stabbed, shot full of lasers, and suffering from his old age anyway, before getting him and his crew to shoot him with an inordinate amount of guns? The fact that Blackbeard, upon arriving at Marineford, didn't just Kurouzo WB in and kill him instantly proves he's not as invincible as you made him seem.

And, for the record, shockwaves like that - looking similar to sonic booms - are travelling around the speed of sound. IE 0.2 miles per second. Fire travels at roughly 0.0034 miles per hour. Lightning travels at 3700 miles per second. If you bring up anyone other than Kizaru's speed, Enel wins. Bringing up speed is redundant...

 

[Mr. Arashi]

Since when Vari = Volt?

I must say that after Magellan's poison or the quake-punch of Newgate against Big John directly on the heart, i'm quite respectful about internal pain. Countershock is that kind of attack.

 

[Kazu-Sama]

Since when Vari = Volt?

I must say that after Magellan's poison or the quake-punch of Newgate against Big John directly on the heart, i'm quite respectful about internal pain. Countershock is that kind of attack.

You mean the poison that he needed Shilliew to save him from, right? He didn't just tank the poison, it almost killed him, and would have were it not for Shilliew coming to his aid.

Vari = volts - check http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Goro_Goro_no_Mi. Vari is a translator's version. In the same way you get Zolo/Zoro. You still haven't answered my point about him waiting until Whitebeard was close to death, then using his crew and a load of guns to finish him off. If he's as strong as you seem to think, why didn't he just attack Whitebeard before Marineford, or even fight him singlehandedly? And why didn't he attack the admirals, or Marco, or Jozu, or any of the other Devil Fruit users that were around? He came in when WB was severly injured, already dying due to his age, then getting stabbed, shot with lasers, and fighting off a lot of marines. He then shot him (with his crew), stole his powers, and ran. He's not immortal, nor is he omnipotent. Kurouzo does not equal an instant win against people.

I'm not saying Thor gives Enel an instant win, either, I'm saying that in a match-up of slow, brute force, hand-to-hand fighter vs potentially long-range, speedy fighter who's powers seem to excel at keeping him at range (Mantra, for instance, to avoid BB trying to grab him) then the fight is likely to go to the guy who's powers are more advantageous. Enel would still lose to WB, to Rayleigh, potentially to Akianu. But against BB he's got a great match-up.

 

[Mr. Arashi]

You mean the poison that he needed Shilliew to save him from, right? He didn't just tank the poison, it almost killed him, and would have were it not for Shilliew coming to his aid.

Vari = volts - check http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Goro_Goro_no_Mi. Vari is a translator's version. In the same way you get Zolo/Zoro. You still haven't answered my point about him waiting until Whitebeard was close to death, then using his crew and a load of guns to finish him off. If he's as strong as you seem to think, why didn't he just attack Whitebeard before Marineford, or even fight him singlehandedly? And why didn't he attack the admirals, or Marco, or Jozu, or any of the other Devil Fruit users that were around? He came in when WB was severly injured, already dying due to his age, then getting stabbed, shot with lasers, and fighting off a lot of marines. He then shot him (with his crew), stole his powers, and ran. He's not immortal, nor is he omnipotent. Kurouzo does not equal an instant win against people.

I'm not saying Thor gives Enel an instant win, either, I'm saying that in a match-up of slow, brute force, hand-to-hand fighter vs potentially long-range, speedy fighter who's powers seem to excel at keeping him at range (Mantra, for instance, to avoid BB trying to grab him) then the fight is likely to go to the guy who's powers are more advantageous. Enel would still lose to WB, to Rayleigh, potentially to Akianu. But against BB he's got a great match-up.

No, i meant about internal damage... for example, i don't believe any character besides Akainu can surpass Galdino's ability after using it in all their body. You train your muscles/strenght, resistance, speed, akuma no mi, Haki but inside almost everyone is average, that's what i want to proof.... obviously Teach is one of those outside that rule.

"Vari" is the Japanese onomatopoeia for the sound the electricity makes, similar to "bzzt"

Indeed different.

But when Enel use his techniques, he use the phrase "Boruto Vari", so it's different than a mere Volt. It's like Gomu Gomu no Pistol stretching 70 Gomu Gomus xD

Well, i have to say that i didn't understand at first Teach's behaviour, but then i realize that was for the plot. He's a truly pirate, a pirate wouldn't confront you mano-mano, Oda is giving that point of view about Teach right now. Obviously he's not weak enough to tremble with Newgate, he know him very well.

Btw, i'm deeply interested about how Edward could beat Enel.

 

[Leonsagara]

The fact that you think Enel can potentially beat Akainu suggests to me that you are overestimating his strength, by a lot. Enel doesn't even have a way to damage Akainu, he only knows Observation Haki.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

@leonsaga normally you would be right

buuuuuut

akainu didnt beat ace with haki, but with a supreme logia, how was it? he was hotter then him(keep cool fangurls, thats was he said)? somewhere on this thread its mentioned that the heat of an lightning can be much hotter then fire or magma. D: so it could be possible at all, but we dont know

(and honestly i dont believe it either, but here enel will win under normal circumstances and lesser fanboys... heck i hated enel from the beginning, but he is still an bad match up for teach

 

[SuperPeon]

He was surprised at Ace's fire spears. He wasn't letting Ace hit him for the sake of hitting him, Ace surprised him.

As for new BB, if he is as strong as you make him seem why didn't he just arrive at the battle of Marineford, kill WB singlehandedly, then while he was there get the 3 Admirals, Marco, Jozu, Doflamingo, Crocodile, Luffy, Sengoku... He's hunting Devil Fruits. If he can take a hit from full-strength WB without issue, pull anyone in and OHKO them with a punch, and pull in everything and anything he chooses, as you seem to think, then why didn't he take advantage of the incredible number of strong Devil Fruits around, capturing and killing all the users, as opposed to waiting until Whitebeard was practically dead already, having been stabbed, shot full of lasers, and suffering from his old age anyway, before getting him and his crew to shoot him with an inordinate amount of guns? The fact that Blackbeard, upon arriving at Marineford, didn't just Kurouzo WB in and kill him instantly proves he's not as invincible as you made him seem.

And, for the record, shockwaves like that - looking similar to sonic booms - are travelling around the speed of sound. IE 0.2 miles per second. Fire travels at roughly 0.0034 miles per hour. Lightning travels at 3700 miles per second. If you bring up anyone other than Kizaru's speed, Enel wins. Bringing up speed is redundant...

In Ace' part, BB got hit because of his "overconfidence" and this is one of his weakness as WB stated.

In BB's part, you do know that he plans things very well. BB likes to know their weakness and how BB would take advantage of it. Remember when BB wanted to kill Luffy to obtain a Shichibukai title? Fortunately, Ace was there to save the story.

I don't think anyone is stupid enough to fight against 3 Admirals, Marco, Jozu, Doflamingo, Crocodile, Luffy, Sengoku at once. And he couldn't go to Marineford directly because his crew wouldn't be strong enough to hold everyone. That's why he went to Impel Down to ask help from Prisoners so they would able to take care against other soldiers. Having level 6 pirates recruited for your crew would help you to reach the PK because of their experience. His goal was only to capture WB's fruit.

 

[Ninja_Pirate]

Wut? Mass approaching zero should give zero gravitational force, because gravitation is proportional to mass. You're talking inverse proportional.

lol... obviously.. my bad... radius tends to zero... thus escape velocity for the said mass comes more than the velocity of light that is 3x10^8 m/sec