Semifinal Mereoleona Vermillion vs. Yami Sukehiro

[Marmalade]

Mereoleona Vermillion​		Yami Sukehiro​

 

[Ramen]

This is going to be a harder fight for Mereleona than Nozel but she should be able to pull off a victory again.

 

[HereNThere]

Mereoleona.

Yami is just now doing things she was doing before the time skip. I don't see Yami keeping up with her that well at all. He'd be a tough fight, but she'd win.

 

[Ramen]

Mereoleona.

Yami is just now doing things she was doing before the time skip. I don't see Yami keeping up with her that well at all. He'd be a tough fight, but she'd win.

Shouldn't they be relative in speed? Especially with mana zone?

 

[HereNThere]

Shouldn't they be relative in speed? Especially with mana zone?

Not that I've seen. They both can move freely in space, but Mereoleona seems to be the faster one.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Yami easily. Yami was legitimately overwhelming Dante at one point. The last time we saw Meroleona she was struggling with a revived Vetto.

 

[LadyVados]

I just can’t see Mereoleona losing. We have not even seen what she is capable of since the time skip. I can’t even begin to imagine the techniques she has developed since the timeskip.

She stomped Licht’s most powerful subordinate and took what 7 magic knight captain tier or above fighters to beat her ?

And she is now probably twice as strong as she was before the timeskip.

It’s worth noting Yami himself fears her. She’s also the Kenpachi of Black Clover, she can probably grow in strength during a fight.

She’s faster, physically stronger and has better mastery of mana zone.

Noelle’s mom is also hyped up to be a Julius-level mage and Mereoleona was keeping up with her at the age of 16 (yes she had elemental advantage and she lost but still !) I think she’s probably surpassed her at this point.

I still think if she was interested in the job and living in the capital she could have become Magic Emperor.

And let’s not forget who was actually made the captain of the royal knights in canon !

 

[Orion]

Yami's performance vs Dante is something I can't see anyone in CK replicating, except maybe Julius. Ofc, dark magic countering gravity played a big part, but dark magic is OP in general. Mereoleona usage of mana zone is better than Yami's, but Yami couples that with ki and black moon, which erases any spell in its territory. He was able to withstand a gravitational singularity wrecking havoc throughout the area and blew open a mountain. So, I'd say that balances out Mereoleona's mana zone adv. Moving onto cqc, Mereoleona packs power and speed in her blows, but again with ki, I think Yami should do well, given he was able to react against light magic really early in the story and now handle and gain the upper hand in cqc vs. Dante, whose power and speed were amped by gravity magic. So this will probably be a long drawn fight, but I feel Yami has the slight edge, eventually finding an opening and (death) thrusting it home for the win.

 

[LadyVados]

Yami's performance vs Dante is something I can't see anyone in CK replicating, except maybe Julius. Ofc, dark magic countering gravity played a big part, but dark magic is OP in general. Mereoleona usage of mana zone is better than Yami's, but Yami couples that with ki and black moon, which erases any spell in its territory. He was able to withstand a gravitational singularity wrecking havoc throughout the area and blew open a mountain. So, I'd say that balances out Mereoleona's mana zone adv. Moving onto cqc, Mereoleona packs power and speed in her blows, but again with ki, I think Yami should do well, given he was able to react against light magic really early in the story and now handle and gain the upper hand in cqc vs. Dante, whose power and speed were amped by gravity magic. So this will probably be a long drawn fight, but I feel Yami has the slight edge, eventually finding an opening and (death) thrusting it home for the win.

Sisgoleon treated light magic as joke against Rhya and Vetto’s Ki powers proved useless against her natural speed.

You don’t think Julius would have done as well against Dante as Yami ? Mereoleona was competing against a Julius-tier opponent (Acier) at 16 years of age, losing yes, but it’s not out of the question that she is on that level now.

Yami was curbstomped by 3 elves. Mereoleona held her own against 6.

 

[HereNThere]

It's highly likely that Mereo can sense ki, especially given how Rhya directly compared her reaction speed to Vetto, who is the only other person aside from Yami and Asta to use ki. She probably developed it while chilling in the wild.

Mereo would outfight Dante just as easily as Yami did. Her only trip up would be her lacking a Black Moon style technique to help her out. Other than that, we have confirmation that Mereo had been the more skilled fighter of the two. I doubt Yami outpaced her that much, if at all, in just six months.

 

[Orion]

Sisgoleon treated light magic as joke against Rhya and Vetto’s Ki powers proved useless against her natural speed.

You're underselling Vetto here a good bit. They were exchanging blows, and it was not her speed that was the difference maker, she tanked a direct facial blow to land the finisher. Yes, her treatment of a light magic spell was more impressive, but the point I'm making is Yami did well just with ki, and now with ki + mana zone his reaction speed is elite, knowing its only surpassed by Julius's foresight.

You don’t think Julius would have done as well against Dante as Yami ? Mereoleona was competing against a Julius-tier opponent (Acier) at 16 years of age, losing yes, but it’s not out of the question that she is on that level now.

Yami was curbstomped by 3 elves. Mereoleona held her own against 6.

For Julius vs. Dante, the thing is gravity bends space and time, so I'm not entirely sure here.

Acier was killed by Vanica. Yes the curse finished it, but Vanica remarked fighting Acier to be fun and we see Acier bloodied up in the small panel flashback. Vanica was also not able to use her devil power as well as she can now. And well Dante is above Vanica, and he himself admitted Yami to be the superior fighter, so there, Yami is on that level now.

Btw it was *5 elves. On the flip side, Dante would have Mereoleona kneeling from Presence of the Demon King.

 

[Crimson Ice]

It's highly likely that Mereo can sense ki, especially given how Rhya directly compared her reaction speed to Vetto, who is the only other person aside from Yami and Asta to use ki. She probably developed it while chilling in the wild.

Mereo would outfight Dante just as easily as Yami did. Her only trip up would be her lacking a Black Moon style technique to help her out. Other than that, we have confirmation that Mereo had been the more skilled fighter of the two. I doubt Yami outpaced her that much, if at all, in just six months.

Saying she can fight Dante is a baseless assumption. You’re assuming she grew as much as Yami, who has an almost main character like growth rate.

 

[Nie Li]

I write this before I read everybody else's take on the topic, but... if I go by pre-TS, Mereoleona. If I go by current, Yami.

Because I'm a dirty fanboy, I'll go by current.

 

[LadyVados]

You're underselling Vetto here a good bit. They were exchanging blows, and it was not her speed that was the difference maker, she tanked a direct facial blow to land the finisher. Yes, her treatment of a light magic spell was more impressive, but the point I'm making is Yami did well just with ki, and now with ki + mana zone his reaction speed is elite, knowing its only surpassed by Julius's foresight.

On the flip side, Dante would have Mereoleona kneeling from Presence of the Demon King.

You’re forgetting that Mereoleona didn’t use mana zone against Vetto and Mereoleona has better mana zone than Yami as well so her mana zone sensory boost is almost certainly bigger.

If Yami could stand in the presence of the demon King then Mereoleona who has stronger reinforcement magic than him can do.

Mereoleona has naturally larger mana reserves than Yami too or larger mana reserves than pretty much anyone except devils.

 

[Orion]

You’re forgetting that Mereoleona didn’t use mana zone against Vetto and Mereoleona has better mana zone than Yami as well so her mana zone sensory boost is almost certainly bigger.

Forgetting? I just answered your initial point where you said her speed was too much for Vetto, which is wrong, she had to tank his blow to lure him in, grab him, and charge an attack in order to defeat him. And cool, I said her mana zone was better in my first post... My point was about ki + mana zone, and I've already shared my thoughts on that.

If Yami could stand in the presence of the demon King then Mereoleona who has stronger reinforcement magic than him can do.

Mereoleona has naturally larger mana reserves than Yami too or larger mana reserves than pretty much anyone except devils.

Yami resisted it sure, but needed Black Moon to nullify the gravitational field around him and be able to move freely. Without it, he would've kneeled soon, or just be severely hindered in the fight, I don't see a fire magic user countering that, inb4 some start saying her flames burn gravity

 

[HereNThere]

Saying she can fight Dante is a baseless assumption. You’re assuming she grew as much as Yami, who has an almost main character like growth rate.

This entire event revolves around assumptions.

Saying he has "main character growth rate" doesn't mean much of anything, because we don't know how far the gap was between them pre time skip, we barely have a point of comparison since she hasn't even appeared yet since the time skip, and there isn't anything saying she didn't grow as much as him during the time skip.

As for Dante, like Yami, she also excels in instinct and technique, the same qualities Dante had admitted made the former stronger than him.

As I stated above, even if we don't have an actual idea of the gap between the two pre time skip, we know Mereo was decently stronger most of the cast. Even if she was a bit weaker than Yami is now (which I personally doubt) she should be on another level in skill and instinct that Dante can't contend with. Along with her strength of mana granted by her Royal bloodline, which is surely still superior to Yami's, she'd likely be able to put up as good a fight as Yami did, before falling to Dante's nigh limitless mana and gravity.

But this is Mereo vs Yami. And I don't believe that he outpaced her.

 

[Crimson Ice]

This entire event revolves around assumptions.

Saying he has "main character growth rate" doesn't mean much of anything, because we don't know how far the gap was between them pre time skip, we barely have a point of comparison since she hasn't even appeared yet since the time skip, and there isn't anything saying she didn't grow as much as him during the time skip.

As for Dante, like Yami, she also excels in instinct and technique, the same qualities Dante had admitted made the former stronger than him.

As I stated above, even if we don't have an actual idea of the gap between the two pre time skip, we know Mereo was decently stronger most of the cast. Even if she was a bit weaker than Yami is now (which I personally doubt) she should be on another level in skill and instinct that Dante can't contend with. Along with her strength of mana granted by her Royal bloodline, which is surely still superior to Yami's, she'd likely be able to put up as good a fight as Yami did, before falling to Dante's nigh limitless mana and gravity.

But this is Mereo vs Yami. And I don't believe that he outpaced her.

This is about assuming battle matchups, not assuming one’s strength level. If that was the case I could make a random argument for a lot of the cast who haven’t shown a thing yet.

Saying he has a main character growth rate would be to show he grows more than other side characters...Just like when he developed the dimension slash mid fight, or he learned mana zone mid fight. If Mero appears again she probably wouldn’t have grown as much as him. You said there’s nothing to say she hasn’t grown as much as him, but the reverse is true. What even implies she’s grown as much as him? Someone like Yami who consistently grows when he’s back is against the wall, while Meroleona hasn’t shown that quality.

You can 100% gauge a gap between them pre skip, you simply have to compare their feats. I’d argue by the end of elf arc Yami is on her level, which wasn’t the case at the start of the arc.

He said Yami’s instincts were above his own, not that it made stronger than him. Yami’s new mastery of mana zone along with ten potency of his dark magic allowed him to push Dante. Meroleona doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt above Yami in either.

You could easily argue that Mero was above Yami at the start of the Elf arc, mainly due to her insane mana zone, but Yami caught up a lot by the end. She doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt about Dante, especially since he’s this arc’s strongest antagonist. Her being a royal doesn’t mean much to me, as Yami isn’t that far off and has better magic than Meroleona in general.

Meroleona doesn’t have any current feats, and seeing how dominant Yami was against the arc’s strongest antagonist she doesn’t benefit of the doubt.

 

[Ramen]

People putting current Yami against pre-ts Mereleona

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 22, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 22, 2020 ---

inb4 some start saying her flames burn gravity

Her flames burn gravity

 

[Rikudou King]

I'm gonna say that I feel like the assumed strength of Meroleona is greater then what we've actually been shown. While she's crazy strong, Yami was shown on a whole different level even before the timeskip. He was able to go toe to toe with a high ranking devil, an opponent far above the elves in power and feats. His skills have also been placed on par with Julius several times. If Mereoleona was as strong as some assumed, she probably would have been mentioned in a similar way.

 

[Ramen]

His skills have also been placed on par with Julius several times.

No one was on par with Julius.