Nen

[kkck]

Something I have never really been able to grasp is what exactly is the purpose of reinforcement. I know this should not be the case given that reinforcement is the simplest of all nen types but the type itself seems to do so little that its usefulness seems vague. What exactly stops anyone from being a reinforcement? Isn't reinforcement simply putting nen into punches and to defend? For instance, what exactly stops killua from using rock? Rock is merely a mass on nen placed on a fist, there is nothing special to it. It is the exact same thing uvogin did. Are other nen types incapable of inefficient at putting nen on their attacks or to defend? What exactly is the deal here?

 

[Jack Van Burace]

Because Intensification/Reinforcement type Nen is about increasing one's ability. When you use Nen on your eyes, your eyesight is increased and one can see Nen and other things better. When used on your body, your punches will grow stronger and your defense harder.

Intensification is like a buff spell, that doesn't actually hit the opponent but makes the user faster, harder, stronger, in order for him to hit the opponent using regular (but enhanced) fighting moves.

It's like an acessory spell of RPGs, as opposed to attack spells that injure the opponents directly. The better at intensification one gets, the bigger the buff.

Killua does increase his own speed with electricity, and that's likely to be his transformation Nen combined with intensification somehow, to create that skill.

 

[Uriel]

I wouldn't say speed, but response. Killua technique is WONDERFUL. Works as good as Intensification in the sense that enhance a physical feature.

In some way, all the techniques that means fighting one on one end requiring intensification. I think it gets confusing because in some point all the techniques have more than one Nen type. You just need to notice what is produced by what, if you follow me.

 

[kkck]

Because Intensification/Reinforcement type Nen is about increasing one's ability. When you use Nen on your eyes, your eyesight is increased and one can see Nen and other things better. When used on your body, your punches will grow stronger and your defense harder.

Intensification is like a buff spell, that doesn't actually hit the opponent but makes the user faster, harder, stronger, in order for him to hit the opponent using regular (but enhanced) fighting moves.

It's like an acessory spell of RPGs, as opposed to attack spells that injure the opponents directly. The better at intensification one gets, the bigger the buff.

Killua does increase his own speed with electricity, and that's likely to be his transformation Nen combined with intensification somehow, to create that skill.

So reinforcement is basically the ability to use your nen at 120? Otherwise just putting nen in your fist or legs should bear the same result regardless of the type user.

---

I could see killua's technique having a few severe side effects. This is the main issue with it IMO.
http://www.onemanga.com/Hunter_X_Hunter/281/14/

When killua uses kanmuru, he is not the one in control. He kinda programs himself in advance to naturally react to his surroundings or more specifically the enemy. This makes sense considering he is reacting before he could actually process anything and most likely moves faster than what he could naturally even control. The issue I see with this is that since killua basically programs himself, he sets himself to react in specific ways to specific things, his reaction to unforeseen things could be severely limited. For instance, if he sets himself to attack anything which attacks him and a friend comes nearby and his programs misinterprets it, he could potentially hurt a friend and only actually learn about the fact long after it is done -don't take the example THAT literally, I merely want to point out programing himself in advance could be disadvantageous-.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

I think that Intensification users aren't gonna get as good results by making conditions for their moves as Specification users. The same way, other Nen types won't get as good buffs as Intensification Nen users.

In terms of buffing yourself using Nen, they're likely to top the others, as in getting a higher buff with more ease. Killua does use Nen like that, but it's like Gon using Emission: he has a lot of trouble to get a short distance, while true emission type users are likely to reach far with ease.

Gon's buffs (and all Intensification users) are likely to have a better result than any other Nen type user when trying to enhance their features.

 

[lobo971]

fun fact: Togashi did have the nen theory back then when writting yuyuhakusho:
Yusuke: renforcement/projection
Kurama: materialisation ( plants )
Hiei: transformation ( fire elemental)
Kuwabara: transformation/specialisation: energy swords/transdimensional sword

i just love how togashi developped for a while the whole Nen theory and practise, i hope there is still room for more learning. the useful thing about his all Nen theory is that it can basically cover any kind of superpowers... pure genius!

 

[Tombadgerlock]

Kurama was manipulation.

Anyway, the point of Reinforcement is that everyone uses it: 'Ten' uses Reinforcement, as well as 'Ken', or 'Shuu', and so on.

A reinforcement user, basically, *may or may not* have special techniques, but his base stats will always be higher than a user of the same 'level' but different affinity.

Togashi managed to make a manga where everything matter (luck, power levels, special abilities, and tactics), so it's not surprising there is a nen type that just 'buff the basic'.

Of course, you can do more with reinforcement (healing for example) but that's just taking it in other directions.

 

[kkck]

I don't think the author necessarily had a concept of this back then. Characters from any plausible manga could fit into some nen category, all the author did here was divide common abilities into groups and limit what each person could do and learn. I mean, every DBZ character could be reinforcement for instance. Natsu from FT would be transmutation, grey would too, erza would be manipulation, grey from rave would also be manipulation. Naruto characters would be everything but specialization, bleach characters would also have every nen type and a few would even have specialization.

 

[Tombadgerlock]

Characters in HxH can use more than one group- they just aren't as good in them.

Erza would be materialization though, not manipulation.

 

[Shinichiro]

Characters in HxH can use more than one group- they just aren't as good in them.

Erza would be materialization though, not manipulation.

Huh, weird. Based on her personality and style, I'd always considered Erza a reinforcement nen-type who makes use of some materialization/manipulation techniques with very specific conditions. You'll note that her weapons always have a purpose. Some reinforce her attack power, others increase her defense against particular types of attacks, etc... Overall, she's a physical brawler who gets extra-boosted from using special abilities--which are the special benefits provided by otherwise normal weapons and armor (normal stuff probably isn't that hard to materialize, all things considered).

One of the awesome things about the nen system is that it truly allows for unique abilities without being ridiculous. After all, abilities are custom matched to the user's personality and the mangaka doesn't stick to generic, broad things like "controls fire" or "controls magnetism". Abilities are specific. It also allows for a much fairer power system. After all, abilities are so conditional that a person rarely wins by being outright stronger inherently, which tends to ruin the power hierarchy of manga as the protagonists must accelerate at ridiculous rates in order to overpower all opponents.

Oh yeah, and lastly, Hunter x Hunter allows for out-of-combat powers. How awesome is that?? I can't think of almost any other series where there are non-combat-heavy superpowers.

About designing our own nen...I think I'd probably be a Materialization or Manipulation type, based on what little I know of myself. Maybe somewhere in-between the two like 90% aptitude in each, since they're close together and I'd guess people rarely fall perfectly on one spot on the pentagram (or was it a hexagram?) scale thing.

As for my ability, I'd like to try something a little...interesting using manipulation (I think, a little vague on exactly what it does) and materialization. I'd like to go for the power to manifest a contact lens which allows me to see exactly what my eye would normally see, only a pre-set amount of time in the past/future. Maybe just the future if the past would be too powerful and unobtainable. Upon putting the contact lens in, I would say a specific time (e.g. 2 hours forward) and from then on until I took it out (or I ran out of nen), I would see exactly what I would have seen out of that eye two hours in the future. If I wanted to fight, I would obviously set it to something more like .2 seconds in the future. Here are the conditions to make it more accessible.

1) I must actually put the contact lens in. No just materializing it on my eyeball or something like that.
2) In order to change the time, I must take the lens out, dematerialize it, materialize another, and put it back in.
3) This is one penalty I haven't fully decided on as it's very tricky, but it might go something like this. If I react in such a way that I change the future and will no longer see the vision that I already saw, the lens dematerializes and I can't use it again for a day. Or maybe for 10x the time difference, haven't decided exactly on that penalty. This means that if I see an attack coming straight towards my face 2 seconds from now and decide to dodge, I better dodge in such a way that I still see that attack coming in two seconds later. So if I see 8 hours later the winning lottery numbers displayed online and the name of the winner next to them, I better go out, buy that lottery number, then reprogram my computer so that it changes my name (the winning name) to the other name on just my computer when I check it later. That way the context may be totally different, but I see the same stuff.

Here are the limitations that make it less powerful and costly than it might seem.
1) I'm badly nearsighted and normally wear contacts or glasses. That means that in order to use this, I would either have to take out the one already there and put a contact in or just always walk around almost blind in one eye.
2) Requires preparation and at least a little time--even at Killua speeds, it would take part of a second to put in a lens, longer while moving.
3) Whole have-to-see-it thing. So if I see someone dying or something, I have 3 choices. A) Rig up a trick so it looks like they're dying from my angle. B) Lose my ability for some time. C) Do nothing
3) Can only see what will be within that eye's field of vision later--no looking around, pausing, etc... Which means I would probably always be looking everywhere like a twitchy crazy person to make sure that I will have seen everything earlier.

 

[kkck]

Characters in HxH can use more than one group- they just aren't as good in them.

Erza would be materialization though, not manipulation.

Erza does not materialize her swords herself, she summons them from a separate space and moves them around. That's all manipulation.

 

[Tombadgerlock]

Erza does not materialize her swords herself, she summons them from a separate space and moves them around. That's all manipulation.

Yeah, except that 'summoning' really looks like materialization (the same way Kurapika materialize his chain or Shizuku her hoover), especially as there is a void space that materialization user have access to in HxH.

Also, manipulation is extremely limited to familiarity, while materialization, once you can create the object, doesn't quite have the same problem.

 

[Shinichiro]

Yeah, except that 'summoning' really looks like materialization (the same way Kurapika materialize his chain or Shizuku her hoover), especially as there is a void space that materialization user have access to in HxH.

Also, manipulation is extremely limited to familiarity, while materialization, once you can create the object, doesn't quite have the same problem.

Perhaps it's materialization with the condition set that she must actually own any item and keep it in that one big room in order to materialize it? That would effectively grant her a void space catalogue. And possibly with the condition that breaking the materialized one will break the original--I can't recall her using the same set of armor after it's been destroyed.

Though I would still posit that Erza herself is a reinforcement user. This is because her fighting style, no matter what armor equipped, is based around physical strength, speed, and defense. If she is reinforcement, she has 60% as much potential in the materialization/manipulation fields. As such, she's perfectly capable of simple and easy feats. Her weapon equips don't do anything themselves, so they seem like VERY easy materializations (or manipulations)--especially once you consider the conditions on them.

So yes, primarily a reinforcement ability who uses some materialization/manipulation techniques to further boost her firepower.

 

[kkck]

Materialization means making a real object out of nen. Basically, you make something that did not previously existed. Erza's sword existed previously, they were not made by her power so they cannot plausibly be any form of materialization. Using your power to make things move or give them special traits, basically manipulate them, is the very definition of manipulation.

 

[Shinichiro]

Materialization means making a real object out of nen. Basically, you make something that did not previously existed. Erza's sword existed previously, they were not made by her power so they cannot plausibly be any form of materialization. Using your power to make things move or give them special traits, basically manipulate them, is the very definition of manipulation.

Does it ever specifically say that the weapons and armor that she summons are the exact same ones that she keeps in her armory? I don't actually remember myself. If so, then it's manipulation. If not, it could be a hybrid materialization/manipulation, as she might materialize copies of the items she already has (the condition) and then manipulates them/reinforces.

 

[kkck]

The manga made it pretty clear erza did not create nor copied her weapons, they were stored in a different space for later use. The weapons are literally summoned and there is not so much as a shred of evidence that anything other than that happens.

 

[Tombadgerlock]

The manga made it pretty clear erza did not create nor copied her weapons, they were stored in a different space for later use. The weapons are literally summoned and there is not so much as a shred of evidence that anything other than that happens.

That indeed, but i meant it as a system- what she does is 'summon' weapons and armors that boost her stats and give her abilties.

That is Materialization.

Now, i agree that the fact that she is using actual weapons that were made long ago means it is different, but weapons like that couldn't exist without nen anyway in HxH-verse (the magic is different), so it doesn't really matter.

 

[kkck]

That cannot plausibly be that. Materialization necessarily must come with her making stuff with her power. How can she be a materialization if she is not materializing anything? Materialization means to literally and to the full extent of the word to make something out of nen. An object not made out of nen is not the result of materialization. Erza NEVER made her swords, they were NEVER just a bunch of random energy. Hell, the manga has gone as far as to show who exactly FORGED the swords (that kreuts guy). The "summoning" a materialization user has is literally to make something which did not exist previously appear out of thin air. If the object in question existed previously independently from the user then it is no materialization. Under your logic, I could simply pick stuff out of a drawer and claim I materialized it. I get the impression you are simply joking, there is no way you can actually be serious.

 

[Shinichiro]

That cannot plausibly be that. Materialization necessarily must come with her making stuff with her power. How can she be a materialization if she is not materializing anything? Materialization means to literally and to the full extent of the word to make something out of nen. An object not made out of nen is not the result of materialization. Erza NEVER made her swords, they were NEVER just a bunch of random energy. Hell, the manga has gone as far as to show who exactly FORGED the swords (that kreuts guy). The "summoning" a materialization user has is literally to make something which did not exist previously appear out of thin air. If the object in question existed previously independently from the user then it is no materialization. Under your logic, I could simply pick stuff out of a drawer and claim I materialized it. I get the impression you are simply joking, there is no way you can actually be serious.

While I'd certainly agree that your explanation is probably the route that Erza took, there's absolutely nothing explicitly laid out that precludes our theories. And there's nothing to say ours isn't another way of achieving an identical goal.

Nen's flexible like that. There are many ways to go about an objective depending on how you divide your skills and factor in the pledge/condition.

As for certain comments, like this here below:

Under your logic, I could simply pick stuff out of a drawer and claim I materialized it.

Not at all. You might want to seriously reread what we're writing. I kind of suspect you've got some serious bias filters going on that's causing you to reduce our theories--which make sense with what we know of nen--to pathetic strawman versions...

The manga made it pretty clear erza did not create nor copied her weapons, they were stored in a different space for later use. The weapons are literally summoned and there is not so much as a shred of evidence that anything other than that happens.

I...don't really see much evidence that has to be the way things happen myself. That said, I'm not willing to go back and comb every Erza-related Fairy Tail panel to confirm, so I might be missing something. But there are many plausible ways that one could use nen to essentially materialize an armory from subspace based on actual weapons. It'd take a bit more creativity than out-and-out item warping/teleportation, but it's definitely possible. Once again, nen is flexible. And some aspects are a wee bit nebulous as is, unfortunately...

 

[Tombadgerlock]

My point was that as the weapons themselves would *need* to be materialization items (or else they would be simple armor, and don't produce the boosts Erza has with them), in HxH-verse it would be materialization.

Basically, even if Erza of Fairy tail-verse summon previously existing items, in HxH-verse those items can't exist, so Erza, to have the same ability, would need to Materialize them.

Manipulation would need her to use long-distance emission + teleportation (emission) plus a tiny bit of manipulation to pinpoint the items, and then wear them... but it would still be normal armors and weapons. No need for anyone to do such a thing.

See my point?