Discussion One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Another element of One Piece is the fact that the SH's reputation. Everything they've done is antagonistic to the perception commonly associated with being a Pirate. Wherever the SHs go, though they're Pirates, they act like Revolutionaries without that necessarily being their intention. This is also fundamental to the story of One Piece in general as it's directly connected to the ridding and eroding away of dictatorships, oligarchies, subjugation, slavery and coercion by intimidation. While everyone they defeat are championing everything evil under the sun, the Celestial Dragons who own the WG are the final antagonists as they are the most intoxicating representatives of these selfish and inhumane ideals.

1. Arlong Park arc was about liberating Nami and her Village from Arlong.
2. Drum Kingdom was being ruled under the tyranny of Wapol; his defeat was also liberating.
3. Alabasta was about to be taken over by the corrupt Crocodile with his grandiose ambitions.

In the scheme of things amidst all the cool abilities, Haki and fighting, Big Mom is just a piece in the puzzle, just a device intended to play a role to further the story and the overall narrative which is about the concept of freedom. It's easy to lose sight of the underlying themes which hold far more importance as it's core to the consistency & overall progress of the story theme.

How does this relate to Totland? We can even see Totland also has the same issues every other place the SHs have been has been caught up in and riddled with. They live in fear, they pay with their lives just to live and they are nothing more than resources of fuel for Big Mom's empire.

Tot-land is a horrific place to live in.

• Every year, you give 2 months of your life away.

Just to put the life-span thing into perspective, if the Human lifespan is:

• 100 - you give away 17 years of your life meaning you can only live to the age of 83
• 90 - you live to the age of 75
• 80 - you live to the age of 67
• 70 - you live to the age of 58
• 60 - you live to the age of 50

That is a huge portion of your life given away and it's not like you really have a choice to leave due to her warped and twisted way of thinking.

This is another reason a defeat here in WCI is necessary as opposed to any other place. It would be like defeating Joker outside of Dressrosa, it loses that emotional and satisfactory connect between the people and the experience of consolation.

It's like the moment Dressrosa was saved from Joker, Kyros who was characterised as this hardened warrior, we finally see him shed a tear as he relishes in the moment and realisation he's no longer being engulfed by Joker's overbearing weight; such an experience cannot be replicated if he just read that Joker got defeated, there's no attachment which we see when X Drake hears that Joker is defeated in the news, he's rather cold about the news even though it's related to his father and it's hard to really empathise despite the fact we know the significance. This is part reason I don't really see Elbaph or Fishman Island as places ideal for a Big Mom defeat, but here (in Totland) as it holds a lot more significance.

Anyway, we still have a few days before the next chapter. Can't come too soon, lol.

 

[Aizen]

This thread is for Power level discussions of the various characters in One Piece. Please be mindful to keep discussions respectful and on topic.

 

[roggie]

Tot-land is a horrific place to live in.

• Every 6 months, you give 2 months of your life away.

Just to put the life-span thing into perspective, if the Human lifespan is:

• 100 - you give away 17 years of your life meaning you can only live to the age of 83
• 90 - you live to the age of 75
• 80 - you live to the age of 67
• 70 - you live to the age of 58
• 60 - you live to the age of 50

There's something strange about these maths.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

There's something strange about these maths.

I made a mistake. I said ever 6 months they lose 2 months, I meant every year 2 months is lost. If it were that, they'd be losing a lot more of their lifespan. Thanks for spotting that.

 

[SupremeMod]

Luffy won't be able to compete with the Yonkos or Admirals until he develops another gear or awakens. I don't think it's going to be that much longer though. Oda can't write this forever. I swear, if him or GRRMartin die before finishing I will personally do whatever it takes to drag them back to Earth to finish their master works. Yes, I'm drunk.

 

[Mohsen]

I'm actually wondering what Pudding will do. Given Sanji was one of the few to actually treat her decently, will she actually help the Straw Hats escape without being caught? Though, why can't Pudding alter Mom's memories and make her think she ate the cake?

They can't fight her head-on, so I'm guessing it'll be a distraction that'll save them. Chopper and Brook are probably key here, I don't remember seeing them this chapter or for a while.


If no one else, Katakuri is pretty dangerous. It's unfair to say they're weak just because they can't stop Big Mom, especially when her defense is pretty solid.

And Zoro, Jinbei, and Sanji can't stop Luffy if he went berserk. I don't think anyone on his crew can, and they've all tried. Nami has probably come the closest, though.

And we don't know if Shiryu, Rayleigh, or Marco had the ability to take on their captains. Marco certainly didn't, if we consider Whitebeard's title to be of significance. And given that BIg Mom is a Yonkou, and that Katakuri and her other commanders are still alive, pretty sure they werent 'meant to fail until Luffy decided to become a pirate.

Don't believe everything you read on Wiki, especially without confirming the sources.

I'm sure not a lot of the kids are actually Big Mom's. Either that or she did have litters if the SBS a member here mentioned is true.

How do you know that?Fact is Zoro clashed evenly with Luffy in Whiskey Peak. Fact is also that Jinbe is physically stronger than Luffy. I don't see how u came to your conclusion that especially these two won't be able to stop Luffy if he goes berserk. The problem is that we hardly got to see who Zoro, JInbe and Sanji are capable off cause since the timeskip Oda decided to give everyone besides Luffy a weak opponent.

Big Mum's crew is unimpressive. We have Kaidou's right hand man challenging Sengoku,Tsuru and Fujitora and even achieving detryong a few ships of the marine. And then we have big mum's crew where no one can stand up to her. How the heck did this pirate crew survive?

 

[M3J]

How do you know that?Fact is Zoro clashed evenly with Luffy in Whiskey Peak. Fact is also that Jinbe is physically stronger than Luffy. I don't see how u came to your conclusion that especially these two won't be able to stop Luffy if he goes berserk. The problem is that we hardly got to see who Zoro, JInbe and Sanji are capable off cause since the timeskip Oda decided to give everyone besides Luffy a weak opponent.

Big Mum's crew is unimpressive. We have Kaidou's right hand man challenging Sengoku,Tsuru and Fujitora and even achieving detryong a few ships of the marine. And then we have big mum's crew where no one can stand up to her. How the heck did this pirate crew survive?

Fact also is that none of them (except for Jinbei once or twice) were able to stop Luffy from going batshit crazy and doing whatever he wanted. While they do have the strength to stop Luffy, they still are unable to do so just because Luffy is unpredictable.

Big Mom's crew managed to force Luffy to use Gear 4, and without Nami he'd have lost. Her crew also stopped Caesar from running and put a kink in their plans as they carried it out. And they even managed to trap and stall Luffy for a while, while Chopper and Carrot were stuck in Brulee's mirror world.

Whereas, didn't Kaidou's right hand man get owned by Zou? And lost to the Marines?

 

[I Am Atomic]

Whereas, didn't Kaidou's right hand man get owned by Zou? And lost to the Marines?

Two things I want to say:
1. When you say Zou you meant Zushina right? Ok, did you see the size of Zushina's trunk? It is huge! She swung it into Jack's ship. Can you guess how much force it carries? IDK, but I know it is huge. His ship was wrecked so he fell into the water, so he can't swim and naturally he sunk. We can see that Jack is perfectly fine underwater.
2. He fought Sengoku, Fujitora and Tsuru. I do not know if he fought these 3, but the nerve to attack the ship with these 3 and come back alive is something we have to give him credit for. Luffy's G4 is nothing compared to that.

He fought Nekomamushi and Inurashi for 5days, then he went and fought against the admiral level characters and got injured. Then he got hit by Zunisha. We have to praise his endurance.

 

[Enima]

2. He fought Sengoku, Fujitora and Tsuru. I do not know if he fought these 3, but the nerve to attack the ship with these 3 and come back alive is something we have to give him credit for. Luffy's G4 is nothing compared to that.

Well technically Luffy escaped out of Impel down after being poisoned by Magellan (which he survived) and then he managed to go past the strongest army in the world to rescue ace (pre timeskip). Jack is strong, but he ain't that strong.

But Luffy saying that he almost got killed by her,makes her a reasonable threat to any enemy while in that frenzy state. She has been way to carefree throughout the whole arc, even last chapter on King Baum she still had the time to laugh. It would be a typical Oda to pull a total asspull out of her, when none of us has been really aware of or cared for what Carrot has been doing the last chapters. I am calling a total apeshit-carrotinduced-outragefrenzy by carrot the next chapterts, and finally showing her plot purpose

Woah! woah! dude. That was written for comedic effect, you don't seriously believe Carrot could take on Luffy let alone BM. Even Nami has beaten Luffy + Zoro + Sanji when she was pissed of. It wasn't a serious fight, it was only written as a joke. When has Oda done something that ridiculous?

 

[M3J]

Two things I want to say:
1. When you say Zou you meant Zushina right? Ok, did you see the size of Zushina's trunk? It is huge! She swung it into Jack's ship. Can you guess how much force it carries? IDK, but I know it is huge. His ship was wrecked so he fell into the water, so he can't swim and naturally he sunk. We can see that Jack is perfectly fine underwater.
2. He fought Sengoku, Fujitora and Tsuru. I do not know if he fought these 3, but the nerve to attack the ship with these 3 and come back alive is something we have to give him credit for. Luffy's G4 is nothing compared to that.

He fought Nekomamushi and Inurashi for 5days, then he went and fought against the admiral level characters and got injured. Then he got hit by Zunisha. We have to praise his endurance.

Yeah, the elephant. But I remember some characters saying that Jack was defeated by the elephant or something.

Not impressive. Luffy broke into Enies Lobby and survived the Buster Call on top of fighting Lucci. Then he broke into Impel Down, survived being poisoned, entered the Marineford War where he was among enemies and allies alike far stronger than him, managed to save Ace, and made it out alive even if he had help.

Though, Jack's main strength could be his endurance, whereas Katakuri's ability to predict the future combined with his speed likely makes him very difficult to beat.

I don't see Carrot being anything special. She's an average level fighter and her taking Luffy down on the Ship, I wouldn't read much into it. She caught Luffy off-guard, it's not like they were fighting. She's got sharp teeth; Shanks got his arm bit by a Seaking whom Luffy 1-hit; Carrot is strong but I don't think has much to offer except she has a DF ability that is game-changing.

And doesn't Luffy actually get stabbed by sharp objects like teeth?

 

[Mohsen]

Yeah, the elephant. But I remember some characters saying that Jack was defeated by the elephant or something.

Not impressive. Luffy broke into Enies Lobby and survived the Buster Call on top of fighting Lucci. Then he broke into Impel Down, survived being poisoned, entered the Marineford War where he was among enemies and allies alike far stronger than him, managed to save Ace, and made it out alive even if he had help.

Though, Jack's main strength could be his endurance, whereas Katakuri's ability to predict the future combined with his speed likely makes him very difficult to beat.


And doesn't Luffy actually get stabbed by sharp objects like teeth?

I hope u still remember that Luffy was cheating throughout the whole war. He was taking steroids 24h/7 in that arc. Something that Jack didn't have. Magellan is nowhere near the level of an admiral. Jack after fighting two guys for quite a few days who are quite powerful went on to take on two of the strongest fighters in the OP world.
Sengoku and Fujiotora are Big Mum level a level that Katakuri and everyone else of Big Mums crew seems unable to handle. Which is why I find her crew and DD's quite lacking.

 

[Enima]

Magellan is nowhere near the level of an admiral. Jack after fighting two guys for quite a few days who are quite powerful went on to take on two of the strongest fighters in the OP world.

You are talking about Magellan, the guy who pretty much one-shotted a yonko and his crew right?. Jack fought two featless guys for a couple of days and then went on to get his ass kicked by the admiral and the others. You make it sound like Jack gave them a hard time. In the anime Jack got one-shotted by fujitora. Even Buggy can Get his ass kicked by an admiral. In fact anyone stupid enough to challenge them, can get their ass kicked by an admiral, You don't even need haki to do that. It's not a feat. Luffy has actually fought with Fujitora.

Sengoku and Fujiotora are Big Mum level a level that Katakuri and everyone else of Big Mums crew seems unable to handle. Which is why I find her crew and DD's quite lacking.

So they said that, the marines + the 7 shichibukai= Yonko and her/his crew. So if the marines had like 6 yonko level fighters all along this equation wouldn't exactly be right. What makes you think Sengoku and Fujitora are Yonko level?

 

[I Am Atomic]

You are talking about Magellan, the guy who pretty much one-shotted a yonko and his crew right?. Jack fought two featless guys for a couple of days and then went on to get his ass kicked by the admiral and the others. You make it sound like Jack gave them a hard time. In the anime Jack got one-shotted by fujitora. Even Buggy can Get his ass kicked by an admiral. In fact anyone stupid enough to challenge them, can get their ass kicked by an admiral, You don't even need haki to do that. It's not a feat. Luffy has actually fought with Fujitora.

You forgot that he sunk 2 marine warships out of 4. I am pretty sure Buggy cannot do that

Luffy's infiltration sounds amazing to others but to readers it isn't. Boa Hancock helped him. Shichibukai can enter and leave Impel Down, like BB. He was left for dead by Magellan and Bon Clay risked his life to reach Ivankov. Ivankov used his hormones to save him. Luffy fought Magellan using Mr.3's wax powers. Ivankov also fought Magellan. Jinbe summoned sharks to escape from Magellan. And finally Bon Clay sacrificed himself to open the main gate. In paper they say Luffy escaped Impel Down but in reality it was a group effort. It is a great feat but what BB did is way better than Luffy did.

Right now I don't find Ennies Lobby infiltration that epic. If Jack infiltrated Ennies Lobby at the moment when Luffy infiltrated, Jack can beat all CP0 agents and escape. Why I love EL is because they gave everything to save a friend. Rob Lucci was hyped up so much but he was only nearing Vice-Admiral in power. Right now he is strong but then he wasn't. A Pacifista could beat him back then.

Marineford War. WB liked Luffy and told Marco that he would never forgive him if anything happens to him.
1. Aokiji tries to kill Luffy but Marco saves him
2. Mihawk tries to kill Luffy but Vista saves him
3. Luffy fell into water but Jinbe saves him
4. Kizaru kicks Luffy but WB catches him before Kizaru could finish Luffy
5. Ivankov uses hormones
6. Garp closed his eyes
7. Akainu tries to kill Luffy but the enitre WB fleet+Jinbe+Crocodile+Ivankov+Buggy tries to save him.
8. Law saved Luffy's life

Impressive feats:
1. Saved Ace
2. Conqueror's haki
3. Tanked a hit from Sengoku

In the war I don't think he beat any notable strong people either.

Again it is a group effort. Since Luffy is the MC, Oda hype him up for the future.

Don't get me wrong. I love Luffy but I like to state what is the truth.

Jack's feat are amazing compared to that. Luffy cannot battle someone like Jack without G4 but he can only maintain it for 20 minutes. Jack can fight for 5 days without rest against strong opponents like Inurashi and Nekomamushi. Even though Inu and Neko has no feats, Luffy himself said that they are very strong.

I love Jack's character. Perfect for a right hand man of Kaido. Both of them look for deadly situations. They love to die. Made for each other.

P.S. Moderators this off topic, I know. Feel free to move it.

 

[Enima]

You forgot that he sunk 2 marine warships out of 4. I am pretty sure Buggy cannot do that

Luffy's infiltration sounds amazing to others but to readers it isn't. Boa Hancock helped him. Shichibukai can enter and leave Impel Down, like BB. He was left for dead by Magellan and Bon Clay risked his life to reach Ivankov. Ivankov used his hormones to save him. Luffy fought Magellan using Mr.3's wax powers. Ivankov also fought Magellan. Jinbe summoned sharks to escape from Magellan. And finally Bon Clay sacrificed himself to open the main gate. In paper they say Luffy escaped Impel Down but in reality it was a group effort. It is a great feat but what BB did is way better than Luffy did.

Right now I don't find Ennies Lobby infiltration that epic. If Jack infiltrated Ennies Lobby at the moment when Luffy infiltrated, Jack can beat all CP0 agents and escape. Why I love EL is because they gave everything to save a friend. Rob Lucci was hyped up so much but he was only nearing Vice-Admiral in power. Right now he is strong but then he wasn't. A Pacifista could beat him back then.

Marineford War. WB liked Luffy and told Marco that he would never forgive him if anything happens to him.
1. Aokiji tries to kill Luffy but Marco saves him
2. Mihawk tries to kill Luffy but Vista saves him
3. Luffy fell into water but Jinbe saves him
4. Kizaru kicks Luffy but WB catches him before Kizaru could finish Luffy
5. Ivankov uses hormones
6. Garp closed his eyes
7. Akainu tries to kill Luffy but the enitre WB fleet+Jinbe+Crocodile+Ivankov+Buggy tries to save him.
8. Law saved Luffy's life

Impressive feats:
1. Saved Ace
2. Conqueror's haki
3. Tanked a hit from Sengoku

In the war I don't think he beat any notable strong people either.

Again it is a group effort. Since Luffy is the MC, Oda hype him up for the future.

Don't get me wrong. I love Luffy but I like to state what is the truth.

Jack's feat are amazing compared to that. Luffy cannot battle someone like Jack without G4 but he can only maintain it for 20 minutes. Jack can fight for 5 days without rest against strong opponents like Inurashi and Nekomamushi. Even though Inu and Neko has no feats, Luffy himself said that they are very strong.

I love Jack's character. Perfect for a right hand man of Kaido. Both of them look for deadly situations. They love to die. Made for each other.

P.S. Moderators this off topic, I know. Feel free to move it.

You can post here.

I know Luffy couldn't have done any of that without the help of others. But Jack hasn't done something that proves he is stronger than Luffy. He fought against Some minks who were never mentioned before in the manga which makes it hard to believe that they're strong fighters. Then he went on to sink two ships (firing canon balls has nothing to do with Jacks strength), we don't know what happened after that but in the anime Jack was pretty much one-shotted by Fujitora.

20 minutes? Luffy wouldn't even need five minutes to finish off the Minks. King kong gun did this

Spoiler

None of Jacks attacks had this level of destructive power. Fighting for five days is a huge feat if your opponent is strong. Fighting against feat less opponents for five days just shows Jacks powerlessness. Luffy fought against Fujitora without Gear 4 and still didn't really lose, that could be considered a good feat. Sinking two ships and then losing to and Admiral is not really a feat.

 

[I Am Atomic]

You can post here.

I know Luffy couldn't have done any of that without the help of others. But Jack hasn't done something that proves he is stronger than Luffy. He fought against Some minks who were never mentioned before in the manga which makes it hard to believe that they're strong fighters. Then he went on to sink two ships (firing canon balls has nothing to do with Jacks strength), we don't know what happened after that but in the anime Jack was pretty much one-shotted by Fujitora.

20 minutes? Luffy wouldn't even need five minutes to finish off the Minks. King kong gun did this

Spoiler

None of Jacks attacks had this level of destructive power. Fighting for five days is a huge feat if your opponent is strong. Fighting against feat less opponents for five days just shows Jacks powerlessness. Luffy fought against Fujitora without Gear 4 and still didn't really lose, that could be considered a good feat. Sinking two ships and then losing to and Admiral is not really a feat.

I agree that we do not know how strong Neko and Inu is. I also cannot compare how strong Jack is either. However, against Cracker Luffy needed Nami's help in beating him. Cracker isn't even the strongest commander IMO because Katakuri is shown to be more of a beast.

For my theory I made Jack stronger than Cracker because more bounty (i know it doesn't mean strength) and Kaido's right hand man. Well I could be wrong.

I hate to say this but Anime is not the perfect example to give during discussion. I love anime but if they make non-canon from canon then it is not a reliable source. Perfect example: Doffy facing King Kong Gun in the manga v anime. If they follow exactly like what happened in the manga then I would love the anime.

 

[jaymizzo]

You forgot that he sunk 2 marine warships out of 4. I am pretty sure Buggy cannot do that

Luffy's infiltration sounds amazing to others but to readers it isn't. Boa Hancock helped him. Shichibukai can enter and leave Impel Down, like BB. He was left for dead by Magellan and Bon Clay risked his life to reach Ivankov. Ivankov used his hormones to save him. Luffy fought Magellan using Mr.3's wax powers. Ivankov also fought Magellan. Jinbe summoned sharks to escape from Magellan. And finally Bon Clay sacrificed himself to open the main gate. In paper they say Luffy escaped Impel Down but in reality it was a group effort. It is a great feat but what BB did is way better than Luffy did.

Right now I don't find Ennies Lobby infiltration that epic. If Jack infiltrated Ennies Lobby at the moment when Luffy infiltrated, Jack can beat all CP0 agents and escape. Why I love EL is because they gave everything to save a friend. Rob Lucci was hyped up so much but he was only nearing Vice-Admiral in power. Right now he is strong but then he wasn't. A Pacifista could beat him back then.

Marineford War. WB liked Luffy and told Marco that he would never forgive him if anything happens to him.
1. Aokiji tries to kill Luffy but Marco saves him
2. Mihawk tries to kill Luffy but Vista saves him
3. Luffy fell into water but Jinbe saves him
4. Kizaru kicks Luffy but WB catches him before Kizaru could finish Luffy
5. Ivankov uses hormones
6. Garp closed his eyes
7. Akainu tries to kill Luffy but the enitre WB fleet+Jinbe+Crocodile+Ivankov+Buggy tries to save him.
8. Law saved Luffy's life

Impressive feats:
1. Saved Ace
2. Conqueror's haki
3. Tanked a hit from Sengoku

In the war I don't think he beat any notable strong people either.

Again it is a group effort. Since Luffy is the MC, Oda hype him up for the future.

Don't get me wrong. I love Luffy but I like to state what is the truth.

Jack's feat are amazing compared to that. Luffy cannot battle someone like Jack without G4 but he can only maintain it for 20 minutes. Jack can fight for 5 days without rest against strong opponents like Inurashi and Nekomamushi. Even though Inu and Neko has no feats, Luffy himself said that they are very strong.

I love Jack's character. Perfect for a right hand man of Kaido. Both of them look for deadly situations. They love to die. Made for each other.

P.S. Moderators this off topic, I know. Feel free to move it.

Jacks feats are more impressive than Luffy?

Jack and co had to poison the minks to get a significant upper hand otherwise it was a stalemate. He did not fight the admirals and managing to sink two ships doesn't mean he got far enough to even fight anyone of note.

You ignored the fact that Magellan can one shot almost anyone without the correct immunity. You completely glossed over what was mentioned in regards of your valuation of him. Does that make him Yonko level if he manages to one shot a Yonko?

Once again, context matters. You are comparing feats accomplished by Luffy in Enies Loby to Jack in the current arc. You say Jack would beat the CP9... well Luffy did back then and would have equally as much ease as Jack would now.

You say Luffy had a lot of help to get out of Impel down... well nothing suggests that Jack would even get past Magellan.

Also Marineford war was never ever about Luffy vs the Marines. He was a random wildcard that had his own specific goals. He never intended to go there and make a name for himself or fight with the top. He was simply there to save Ace. If Ace was locked up in a zoo, Luffy would not have been at Marineford. Point being, even with his limitations and utter inexperience in such a war, he managed to somewhat accomplish his goals and grow significantly in notoriety and his alliance.

 

[Enima]

I agree that we do not know how strong Neko and Inu is. I also cannot compare how strong Jack is either. However, against Cracker Luffy needed Nami's help in beating him. Cracker isn't even the strongest commander IMO because Katakuri is shown to be more of a beast.

For my theory I made Jack stronger than Cracker because more bounty (i know it doesn't mean strength) and Kaido's right hand man. Well I could be wrong.

I hate to say this but Anime is not the perfect example to give during discussion. I love anime but if they make non-canon from canon then it is not a reliable source. Perfect example: Doffy facing King Kong Gun in the manga v anime. If they follow exactly like what happened in the manga then I would love the anime.

IMO pretty much all of the yonko commanders are in the same level, Cracker had a convenient ability that prevented Luffy from landing a direct hit. Nami helped Luffy, but it wasn't like the time in Dressrosa where Luffy was actually going to die. Nothing suggests that Luffy couldn't have won without Nami, he even fought other people after fighting with cracker which proves that Luffy was far from being exhausted. Nami was there and Luffy was fighting a Yonko commander. So Nami did the most sensible thing to do at that time, which was to help Luffy. Even if Luffy was going to win it would be kinda stupid if Nami just stood there without helping Luffy. For example: Garp could've taken on shiki by himself, but Sengoku helped him because it would be stupid to not help his ally when he's facing a powerful opponent.

Almost all of the pirates defeated by Luffy had a higher bounty at the time they were defeated.

I know, the anime isn't 100% accurate. But it explains some of the stuff with more detail. The anime is not like the movies, since they're based on the manga the portrayal of power levels is pretty accurate. Because if they're not, it might be troublesome when a character they portrayed to be pretty weak in the anime does some crazy powerful stuff in the manga.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Continue discussion here because it is off topic on that thread

Jacks feats are more impressive than Luffy?

Right now, Yes!

Jack and co had to poison the minks to get a significant upper hand otherwise it was a stalemate. He did not fight the admirals and managing to sink two ships doesn't mean he got far enough to even fight anyone of note.

Neko and Inu said that even though the minks had the upper hand, they were never able to suppress Jack himself. It meant that Jack's underlings were the ones losing not Jack himself. Neko and Inu took turns every 12 hours, while Jack fought without rest.
And did it say in the manga that he did not fight the admirals? If so, show me the panel and then I will withdraw from this discussion.

You ignored the fact that Magellan can one shot almost anyone without the correct immunity. You completely glossed over what was mentioned in regards of your valuation of him. Does that make him Yonko level if he manages to one shot a Yonko?

Wrong. No he cannot one shot anyone without the correct immunity. You do not need immunity to deal with Magellan, you can use haki.
Wrong again. He cannot one shot a Yonko. If he can then he is someone above Yonko level. Yonko's will never let them get hit by his poison, they can block with haki, dodge etc...

Once again, context matters. You are comparing feats accomplished by Luffy in Enies Loby to Jack in the current arc. You say Jack would beat the CP9... well Luffy did back then and would have equally as much ease as Jack would now.

You completely missed my point. They hyped up CP9's defeat. The strongest member, Rob Lucci wasn't even strong as an vice-admiral or max strong as VA. Why is that impressive? In the NW, most strong people we know can take care of VA easily. Did you see how Sabo took care of Bastille?
The reason why it was famous is because Luffy beat CP9 and escaped from the Buster Call. How did he escape? Going Merry had sentience. Not because of Luffy but outsiders do not know that.

You say Luffy had a lot of help to get out of Impel down... well nothing suggests that Jack would even get past Magellan.

So you deemed Magellan to be stronger than Jack? Whatever, since I never said that Jack will be able to infiltrate Impel Down.

Also Marineford war was never ever about Luffy vs the Marines. He was a random wildcard that had his own specific goals. He never intended to go there and make a name for himself or fight with the top. He was simply there to save Ace. If Ace was locked up in a zoo, Luffy would not have been at Marineford. Point being, even with his limitations and utter inexperience in such a war, he managed to somewhat accomplish his goals and grow significantly in notoriety and his alliance.

This is the same with WB pirates. They never came to fight Marines. They came to rescue Ace. If Ace was in a zoo then WB pirates would be there as well. WB pirates did not go there to defeat notable pirates either. After Ace got his freedom, WB told them to retreat. They had the same objective as Luffy.
The only feat Luffy showed in the war and Impel Down is his endurance and courage. Jack had the same. Luffy faced the 3 Admirals with a log in hand - courage. Jack faced Admiral powers trying to rescue Joker - courage.

 

[M3J]

I hope u still remember that Luffy was cheating throughout the whole war. He was taking steroids 24h/7 in that arc. Something that Jack didn't have. Magellan is nowhere near the level of an admiral. Jack after fighting two guys for quite a few days who are quite powerful went on to take on two of the strongest fighters in the OP world.
Sengoku and Fujiotora are Big Mum level a level that Katakuri and everyone else of Big Mums crew seems unable to handle. Which is why I find her crew and DD's quite lacking.

He took Iva's hormones twice, and this was when he wasn't even close to being recovered yet and didn't rest. Luffy was exhausted, took Iva's hormones, proceeded to cause havoc, finally felt the effects, took hormone shot again, and kept going until he mentally broke down. Luffy wasn't technically at 100%, he was fatigued. It's quite impressive.

Who says Katakuri can't handle Sengoku or Fujitora? Not to mention, Jack still lost to the Marines, as far as I recall.

 

[jaymizzo]

Right now, Yes!

No... no he does not.

Neko and Inu said that even though the minks had the upper hand, they were never able to suppress Jack himself. It meant that Jack's underlings were the ones losing not Jack himself. Neko and Inu took turns every 12 hours, while Jack fought without rest.

They had to change shifts out of necessity due to the nature of their relationship etc It is a testimate to Jacks stamina and endurance to be able to last that long but the battle still remained a stalemate.

And did it say in the manga that he did not fight the admirals? If so, show me the panel and then I will withdraw from this discussion.

In that case... Did Luffy not fight with the admirals, Mihawk (can't remember the rest) when he was in Marineford? At a younger age, with less experience, no haki and no crew?

If you take Jack being beaten by the marines as a testimate to his strength and count that as a feat, then should the same not be the case for Luffy?

Jack going after the convoy does more to demonstrate the gigantic balls he has.

Wrong. No he cannot one shot anyone without the correct immunity. You do not need immunity to deal with Magellan, you can use haki.

Yeh... he pretty much did that to most of the opponents we saw against him in Impel down.

IIRC he made pretty short work of BB crew.

Wrong again. He cannot one shot a Yonko. If he can then he is someone above Yonko level. Yonko's will never let them get hit by his poison, they can block with haki, dodge etuc...

I'm not sure what pedestal you have the Yonko on but fights in OP are not determined by status only. Being a Yonko does not mean you will be able to break out of Birdcage, being aYonko does not mean you can survive without oxygen (CC vacuum) and being a Yonko does not make you untouchable.

Point being, Magellan can hit a Yonko with his ability. It does not make him Yonko level.

You completely missed my point. They hyped up CP9's defeat. The strongest member, Rob Lucci wasn't even strong as an vice-admiral or max strong as VA. Why is that impressive? In the NW, most strong people we know can take care of VA easily. Did you see how Sabo took care of Bastille?
The reason why it was famous is because Luffy beat CP9 and escaped from the Buster Call. How did he escape? Going Merry had sentience. Not because of Luffy but outsiders do not know that.

I like that you can so easily gloss over help others receive but criticize Luffy for the same.

You are comparing feats from the current state of the manga to things accomplished 2-3 years ago. You are comparing a fighter who lacked so much due to their inexperience to someone who has all of that.

But even when you do so, you fail to realize that Jack with all the might you give him, managed to do what Luffy did at a much younger age with much less on his Arsenal.

Comparing those two feats only serves to elevate Luffy tbh.

So you deemed Magellan to be stronger than Jack? Whatever, since I never said that Jack will be able to infiltrate Impel Down.

No I do not nor was the intention to engage in that sort of discussion. I understand OP well enough to know that DF abilities are so complex that even the weakest person can have the most inconvenient DF to fight against.

This is the same with WB pirates. They never came to fight Marines. They came to rescue Ace. If Ace was in a zoo then WB pirates would be there as well. WB pirates did not go there to defeat notable pirates either. After Ace got his freedom, WB told them to retreat. They had the same objective as Luffy.
The only feat Luffy showed in the war and Impel Down is his endurance and courage. Jack had the same. Luffy faced the 3 Admirals with a log in hand - courage. Jack faced Admiral powers trying to rescue Joker - courage.

Then how do you consider any of Jacks feats to be better than Luffys? You are comparing a 15-17 year old fighting against admirals in his first ever war to a seasoned NW vet doing the same... yet consider the latter to have superior feats is confusing.

Luffy did what Jack is doing now 2 years ago.