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Discussion Re-rank genius 10 based on their strenght on your own opinion

erosares286

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Hello guys, if you re-rank G10 now base on their strength, what should it be? My personal take is
1. Byo
2. Toku
3. Tane
4. Oni
5. Duke
6. Ochi
7. Mori
8. Tohno
9. The guy with the glass, i forgot the name
10. Ohmagari
 

mathematicianrcg

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I will go 10-1 with explanation.

Note: We are not considering Iries as a Genius 10.

List:

10. Omagari,Ryuji - His feats really underperformed, If Tane did not help him, sanada and akutsu could beat him. He also have a terrible performance against swiss.
I cannot believe he is no.6.

9.Kimijama Ikuto- His trump card is negotiation, if he failed to manipulate, he is almost useless

8.Atsukyo Tohno- His execution are good. Especially if he is able to injured his opponents. I just feel others above my list can neutralize his abilities.

7. Ochi Tsukimutsu- I am torn between him and Mouri. Mouri just have more feats. But Ochi Mind control and pressure is amazing.

6. Mouri- His Sleeper tennis is topnotch. And I think he will be the next captain in the next world cup. He will be the one leading.

5. Tokugawa - So far he is in 5th place, but he has the most potential among in this list.

4. Duke- The fact that he was chosen to play aginst Byo, tells you that he is really strong. But he have a terrible showing against Randy and Albert. He have trouble against power player stronger physically than him.

3. Oni - He beats Byodoin. He WAS the strongest 2 yrs ago I think. But because he stopped to train himself, he drops to 3rd.

2. Tanegashima - He beats an almost unbeatable zeus. I do not think Tane use 100% already.

1.Byodoin- He is no. 1 for a reason. I am sure he will have a massive powerup
He did not go 100% yet also.

Ps: I can even think Irie is stronger than Omagari.

Pss: I hope someone can defend omagari, but he really underperformed so far
 
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Noel_Jr

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10. Ohmagari
9. Tohno
8. Kimijima
7. Mouri
6. Ochi
5. Duke
4. Tokogawa
3. Oni
2. Tanegashima
1. Byodoin.
 

mathematicianrcg

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Oh. So we have a consensus that Ohmagari, Ryuji is the weakest. I said it already, but I really do not see him as a deserving to have that no.6 badge. Mouri Sleeper tennis wil beat him in a quick match. Ochi will mental pressure him. Ikuto is debatable, but I see ohmagari as vulnerable to negotiation. Tohno will injure him early, so his endurance will not be a factor. Is endurance and nitoryu the only things he have???? Even Ryoma,Sanada,Yukimura, and maybe Fuji can beat Current Ryuji
 

erosares286

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Oh. So we have a consensus that Ohmagari, Ryuji is the weakest. I said it already, but I really do not see him as a deserving to have that no.6 badge. Mouri Sleeper tennis wil beat him in a quick match. Ochi will mental pressure him. Ikuto is debatable, but I see ohmagari as vulnerable to negotiation. Tohno will injure him early, so his endurance will not be a factor. Is endurance and nitoryu the only things he have???? Even Ryoma,Sanada,Yukimura, and maybe Fuji can beat Current Ryuji
Agree with you, but i think ohmagari has something in his sleeve, maybe if he play singles we will see his true strength. I also feel tokugawa will have a big upgrade that's why i put him no. 2..
 

Kaoz

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Is endurance and nitoryu the only things he have?
According to volume 23.5, he has some additional special moves:

  • Nitouryuu: The basic dual wielding. I'm including an image for comparison with one of the later moves though.
  • Wild Tiger: The previous "tiger" moves (Sengoku, Hara) were overhead shots, so this one probably is too. The only overhead Ohmagari has ever played on-screen was this one. There's not a whole lot to go on, but it's probably just a speed serve. Not as fast as Mach obviously, but I guess Ohmagari might have the second or third best serve among the G10.
  • Double Dragon Stroke Drop: Probably refers to this move. I reckon it's like a two racket version of Oshitari's Fake & Drop, so you'd prepare to hit a smash or drive volley with one racket and a drop with the other and can then decide which one to go with at the last moment.
  • Reverse Demon Style: The literal translation of this one is "9 cm Onigawara" with the Japanese being San Sun Onigawara. Sun is an old measuring unit and three sun describe "the width of four fingers (except the thumb) side-by-side." It most likely refers to this page, meaning it's a variation of Nitouryuu in which you hold one racket normally and the other with a reverse grip.
It's also worth pointing out in my eyes that he was one of the guys who went to protect the audience in the Akutsu vs Amadeus match, alongside Tanegashima, Duke and Oni. Looking at it in terms of group association, that's pretty good company to be in. Finally, I don't think his stamina should be underestimated. From the original profile descriptions, the 4 stamina Kimijima, Tohno, Ochi and Mouri have are barely enough to play two sets at full strength in singles, whereas Ohmagari could probably play a 5-setter without much issue.

In general, I reckon no. 6-10 can all beat each other, but the odds are in the favor of the person ranked higher. The only one I'm a bit hesitant about in this regard is Ochi, because it's not clear to me if he had a higher rank before Kaji's improvements during the overseas expedition.
 

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According to volume 23.5, he has some additional special moves:



It's also worth pointing out in my eyes that he was one of the guys who went to protect the audience in the Akutsu vs Amadeus match, alongside Tanegashima, Duke and Oni. Looking at it in terms of group association, that's pretty good company to be in. Finally, I don't think his stamina should be underestimated. From the original profile descriptions, the 4 stamina Kimijima, Tohno, Ochi and Mouri have are barely enough to play two sets at full strength in singles, whereas Ohmagari could probably play a 5-setter without much issue.

In general, I reckon no. 6-10 can all beat each other, but the odds are in the favor of the person ranked higher. The only one I'm a bit hesitant about in this regard is Ochi, because it's not clear to me if he had a higher rank before Kaji's improvements during the overseas expedition.
But if I will choose the 2 weakest players in genius 6-10, It should be Ohmagari and Ikuto.

I cannot belive Mouri is No.10 given the fact that he is a part of the rikkaidai dynasty championship team. And his sleeping tennis is amazing. Ochi beat Mouri, so I think he is stronger, Mouri could improved, but the same improvement must have for Ochi.

Tohno, Ikuto, and Ohmagari I think can beat each other. But Ohmagari has the least odds. Tohno's execution will defeat two style racket. I dont know about Ikuto negotiation.


And the problem I see about Ohmagari is that he can be beaten in 2 sets if ochi,mouri will go all out from the start. . Meaning his stamina advantage will be useless. Just like how can you beat kaido stamina.

This is demonstrated actually by Peter and Henri. They neutralize Kite and Ohmagari's stamina by beating them quickly.
 

Kaoz

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I cannot belive Mouri is No.10 given the fact that he is a part of the rikkaidai dynasty championship team.
You make it sound like 10 is a bad ranking, when it puts him above the ~250 guys that participated in the camp alongside him as well as hundreds of players that weren't even invited to the camp. Also, Rikkai didn't win the national title during Mouri's first two years in middle school. By the time they started winning, the rest of the G10 had already graduated.

Ochi beat Mouri, so I think he is stronger, Mouri could improved, but the same improvement must have for Ochi.
The coaches said Mouri improved much faster than the data predicted. There's no similar indication for Ochi. So based on what we know, Mouri probably improved more than Ochi since they played each other, although that doesn't mean he's actually stronger than Ochi now.

Tohno's execution will defeat two style racket.
There's nothing to support this.

I could make a blanket statement to the opposite effect, like that Ohmagari would never get hit by a single execution, and neither of us would be able to advance our position in any way.

And the problem I see about Ohmagari is that he can be beaten in 2 sets if ochi,mouri will go all out from the start. . Meaning his stamina advantage will be useless. Just like how can you beat kaido stamina.

This is demonstrated actually by Peter and Henri. They neutralize Kite and Ohmagari's stamina by beating them quickly.
Yes, he can be beaten in two sets. That doesn't mean Ochi or Mouri will always be able to pull it off, or even pull it off more often than not. Peter and Henri aren't a good comparison because (1) it was a one-set match, and (2) at least Peter should have comparable physical stats to Ohmagari (and Henri's are presumably higher than Kite's), unlike the two Japanese.

For Ochi, it was implied in the Greece match that he wouldn't be able to hit Mach at 100% all the time in singles, and he's also a more defensive player. So I'm not sure how he would consistently pull off those quick wins you're talking about. In Mouri's case, his 10.5 profile explicitly says that he doesn't have enough power to play singles at the level of competition they're rating.
 

mathematicianrcg

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You make it sound like 10 is a bad ranking, when it puts him above the ~250 guys that participated in the camp alongside him as well as hundreds of players that weren't even invited to the camp. Also, Rikkai didn't win the national title during Mouri's first two years in middle school. By the time they started winning, the rest of the G10 had already graduated.
Nope. Mouri still won championships with rikkai when he beat kenya 2 yrs or 1yr before the timeline.

Because we are only comparing, ranking the GENIUS 10, which means no.10 is the weakest


There's nothing to support this.

I could make a blanket statement to the opposite effect, like that Ohmagari would never get hit by a single execution, and neither of us would be able to advance our position in any way.
Sanada and akutsu easily breaks that two style rocket. And genius 10 have higher stats than MS right? So tohno have higher stats than sanada and akutsu. That is why I think Tohno could hit an execution against ohmagari. maybe not all execution, but i am sure some will hit.

I think almost all of posters here will put Ohmagari at 10. And so far, it is the case, look at the rankings above, it is consensus that he is the weakest.

Yes, he can be beaten in two sets. That doesn't mean Ochi or Mouri will always be able to pull it off, or even pull it off more often than not. Peter and Henri aren't a good comparison because (1) it was a one-set match, and (2) at least Peter should have comparable physical stats to Ohmagari (and Henri's are presumably higher than Kite's), unlike the two Japanese.

For Ochi, it was implied in the Greece match that he wouldn't be able to hit Mach at 100% all the time in singles, and he's also a more defensive player. So I'm not sure how he would consistently pull off those quick wins you're talking about. In Mouri's case, his 10.5 profile explicitly says that he doesn't have enough power to play singles at the level of competition they're rating.

You sounded like for you, Ochi is the weakest? Maybe, but i think he shows more than ohmagari this point.

Anyway, I agree we do not have enough data yet. But FOR NOW, Ohmagari is the weakest because he have no feats yet.

Ohmagari and Irie are both players we do not have enough data yet. But we have this certain feeling that Irie is a lot stronger than what he showed so far. I believe we do not have the same feeling with ohmagari,

In fact, you choosing Irie playing against volk proves that. i will bet you will not want ohmagari fighting volk. But in irie, you are willing. And Irie is not even a member of genius 10.

But they are the same in terms of we do not have enough data yet. So what is the difference?
 
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Kaoz

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Nope. Mouri still won championships with rikkai when he beat kenya 2 yrs or 1yr before the timeline.
That was one year before, when he was a third year. And when Mouri was a third year, no. 1-9 were already in high school, so Rikkai didn't face any of them during their run to the championship. Beyond that, we know that the current nationals would've been Rikkai's third consecutive championship, meaning they didn't win the one when Mouri was a second year, even though the other G10 didn't compete that year either.

Sanada and akutsu easily breaks that two style rocket. And genius 10 have higher stats than MS right? So tohno have higher stats than sanada and akutsu. That is why I think Tohno could hit an execution against ohmagari. maybe not all execution, but i am sure some will hit.

I think almost all of posters here will put Ohmagari at 10. And so far, it is the case, look at the rankings above, it is consensus that he is the weakest.
At the risk of stating the obvious, Tohno is one guy whereas Sanada and Akutsu are two. Sanada and Akutsu had to combine their respective abilities to score against Ohmagari during that game. For that matter, Tohno got trashed by the Stephanopoulos brothers. I doubt either of them would've won on their own, but they beat him up when it was 2-on-1.

Also, Sanada and Akutsu attacked in a completely different way than Tohno does. Both of them - as well as Henri for that matter - used moves to change the ball's direction unexpectedly, whereas Tohno attacks head-on.

Finally, it probably doesn't matter if Tohno manages to hit only some of the executions. They're not that threatening by themselves if you're well-trained and Ohmagari certainly is. That's supported by both Tsuuge's comment on the no. 7/8 match in volume 10.5 and the Greeks not being affected by them until Tohno actually landed them all.

You sounded like for you, Ochi is the weakest?
As I said in my first post, I think that when no. 6-10 play each other, the match is either even or in favor of the person ranked higher. Not necessarily by a whole lot, but they'd win at least as often as they'd lose in my mind. So I'd say Mouri is the weakest of the group.

But FOR NOW, Ohmagari is the weakest because he have no feats yet.
I don't agree with that reasoning. For Ohmagari, Kimijima, Tohno, Ochi and Mouri, we know their stats and we know which abilities they have. What we don't know is how their abilities and play styles match up against each other, so that's the parts we discuss about. Of course the matches they've played can help us make more informed guesses, but you can't just take the outcomes and leave it at that.

But we have this certain feeling that Irie is a lot stronger than what he showed so far. I believe we do not have the same feeling with ohmagari,

In fact, you choosing Irie playing against volk proves that. i will bet you will not want ohmagari fighting volk. But in irie, you are willing. And Irie is not even a member of genius 10.

But they are the same in terms of we do not have enough data yet. So what is the difference?
I mean, Irie is a special case because of the storytelling. He's closely associated with extremly strong characters, there are some hints that he has more powerful techniques up his sleeve and in general it was implied against both Atobe and Germany that he didn't go all-out. I guess him being grouped with Tokugawa, Oni and Tanegashima is why it's difficult to estimate an upper limit for Irie.

The same simply isn't true for Ohmagari. There hasn't been any indication that he holds back some super aura, and that's why we generally talk about him in the context of the characters ranked below him rather than the ones ranked higher. Ohmagari not being important to the story and thus not getting screen time doesn't make him a worse player though, it just impacts your perception because you can't point to that one super awesome thing he did.
 

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Beyond that, we know that the current nationals would've been Rikkai's third consecutive championship, meaning they didn't win the one when Mouri was a second year, even though the other G10 didn't compete that year either.
Sorry, I'm getting confused. I'm not including G10 here, only Rikkai.

When the Three Kings were in first year and second year, didn't they win Nationals in those two years? That's why they would've been the champion for the third consecutive year if they won against Seigaku?

That's what I know and if that's correct, then Mouri would've won the Nationals when he was in second year and third year, since he's a year older than the Three Kings.

Three Kings - 1st year, 2nd year - won
Mouri - 2nd year, 3rd year - won

Thanks!
 

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Three Kings - 1st year, 2nd year - won
Mouri - 2nd year, 3rd year - won
You're right, I was off by one. Nevertheless, they didn't play against any of the other G10 during those years and when Mouri was a first year and might've played one of the G10's schools, they didn't win.
 

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You're right, I was off by one. Nevertheless, they didn't play against any of the other G10 during those years and when Mouri was a first year and might've played one of the G10's schools, they didn't win.
Yup! I understand the part about G10.
 

mathematicianrcg

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You're right, I was off by one. Nevertheless, they didn't play against any of the other G10 during those years and when Mouri was a first year and might've played one of the G10's schools, they didn't win.
That is pretty obvious. When the 3 demons are still second years, Kirihara in his first year easily beats Rikkaidai's Third year players which are batchmates of Mouri.

Maybe Mouri is the Only competent player by rikkaidai back then.

Do we know who are the past champions in nationals before Rikkai? I think we do not know that.

Reading all the profiles of G10, none of them are mentioned to be a National Team Champion during their MS years(Except Mouri with Rikkai). Ochi lead hyotei to nationals. But they did not win.

Ps: Mouri was a former shintenhoji player. So Mouri could been in Shinten in his first and second year. Then 3rd yr he transferred to Rikkai?

Pss:Yes it is in his character trivia, Mouri attented shinten first before rikkai. So maybe mouri only won one championship.😀

--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

That was one year before, when he was a third year. And when Mouri was a third year, no. 1-9 were already in high school, so Rikkai didn't face any of them during their run to the championship. Beyond that, we know that the current nationals would've been Rikkai's third consecutive championship, meaning they didn't win the one when Mouri was a second year, even though the other G10 didn't compete that year either.



At the risk of stating the obvious, Tohno is one guy whereas Sanada and Akutsu are two. Sanada and Akutsu had to combine their respective abilities to score against Ohmagari during that game. For that matter, Tohno got trashed by the Stephanopoulos brothers. I doubt either of them would've won on their own, but they beat him up when it was 2-on-1.

Also, Sanada and Akutsu attacked in a completely different way than Tohno does. Both of them - as well as Henri for that matter - used moves to change the ball's direction unexpectedly, whereas Tohno attacks head-on.

Finally, it probably doesn't matter if Tohno manages to hit only some of the executions. They're not that threatening by themselves if you're well-trained and Ohmagari certainly is. That's supported by both Tsuuge's comment on the no. 7/8 match in volume 10.5 and the Greeks not being affected by them until Tohno actually landed them all.



As I said in my first post, I think that when no. 6-10 play each other, the match is either even or in favor of the person ranked higher. Not necessarily by a whole lot, but they'd win at least as often as they'd lose in my mind. So I'd say Mouri is the weakest of the group.



I don't agree with that reasoning. For Ohmagari, Kimijima, Tohno, Ochi and Mouri, we know their stats and we know which abilities they have. What we don't know is how their abilities and play styles match up against each other, so that's the parts we discuss about. Of course the matches they've played can help us make more informed guesses, but you can't just take the outcomes and leave it at that.



I mean, Irie is a special case because of the storytelling. He's closely associated with extremly strong characters, there are some hints that he has more powerful techniques up his sleeve and in general it was implied against both Atobe and Germany that he didn't go all-out. I guess him being grouped with Tokugawa, Oni and Tanegashima is why it's difficult to estimate an upper limit for Irie.

The same simply isn't true for Ohmagari. There hasn't been any indication that he holds back some super aura, and that's why we generally talk about him in the context of the characters ranked below him rather than the ones ranked higher. Ohmagari not being important to the story and thus not getting screen time doesn't make him a worse player though, it just impacts your perception because you can't point to that one super awesome thing he did.
So for you, the ranking still tells who is overall stronger and who will often win against each other.

But for me, no. of badge can be deceiving. Ryoga is no.4 even if he is a lot stronger. Irie doesnt have a badge but we feel that he belongs to genius 5. Oni is still stronger than Tokugawa now. But Toku has higher number.

Do you think no.1-5 are not in order, but no.6-10 are definite?

So if you will rerank the g10 which is the purpose of this thread, you will still maintain all? Or maintain 6-10, and twists 1-5?
 
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Kaoz

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Maybe Mouri is the Only competent player by rikkaidai back then.

Do we know who are the past champions in nationals before Rikkai? I think we do not know that.
We don't know, but it doesn't matter for the purposes of this discussion. Your initial claim was that Mouri couldn't only be no. 10 because he was part of Rikkai. But, the only potentially important year to the ranking here is his first year in MS because that's the only time he could've competed against the other G10, who are all two years older than him. And for that year we know that Rikkai didn't win.

We don't know where they ended up. Maybe they were the runner-ups, maybe they already lost in the quarters. And regardless of where they finished, we don't know how much of a hand Mouri had in it. But that's exactly why the claim doesn't hold.

Ps: Mouri was a former shintenhoji player. So Mouri could been in Shinten in his first and second year. Then 3rd yr he transferred to Rikkai?
Konomi said in a radio show that Mouri transferred during the summer of his first year.

So for you, the ranking still tells who is overall stronger and who will often win against each other.
I've said no such thing. Based on what we know, I think the bottom half of the ranking is accurate though, again with the possible exception of Ochi depending on when and how Kaji advanced to no. 5.

So if you will rerank the g10 which is the purpose of this thread, you will still maintain all? Or maintain 6-10, and twists 1-5?
I would probably shuffle around the top 5, but there are more unknowns in their case, so I'm not sure how exactly.

1. Oni
2. Byoudouin
3. Tanegashima
4. Duke
5. Tokugawa

Maybe like that for now. It's easily possible to make cases for Byoudouin or Tokugawa being higher though.
 

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We don't know, but it doesn't matter for the purposes of this discussion. Your initial claim was that Mouri couldn't only be no. 10 because he was part of Rikkai. But, the only potentially important year to the ranking here is his first year in MS because that's the only time he could've competed against the other G10, who are all two years older than him. And for that year we know that Rikkai didn't win.

We don't know where they ended up. Maybe they were the runner-ups, maybe they already lost in the quarters. And regardless of where they finished, we don't know how much of a hand Mouri had in it. But that's exactly why the claim doesn't hold.



Konomi said in a radio show that Mouri transferred during the summer of his first year.



I've said no such thing. Based on what we know, I think the bottom half of the ranking is accurate though, again with the possible exception of Ochi depending on when and how Kaji advanced to no. 5.



I would probably shuffle around the top 5, but there are more unknowns in their case, so I'm not sure how exactly.

1. Oni
2. Byoudouin
3. Tanegashima
4. Duke
5. Tokugawa

Maybe like that for now. It's easily possible to make cases for Byoudouin or Tokugawa being higher though.
Hmmm. Yeah you are right
Anyway, given he was first year back then, maybe he did not even play against any other G10. But still Mouri was a part of rikkai that always win in Kanto. 15 straight years right?
But Yeah, I realize he is youngest, so maybe it will be a big factor. So maybe he can be potentially the weakest.

I still want to see more from ohmagari though. The fact that almost all posters in this thread put him at 10th spot tells something. He did not show anything yet?!!!

Anyway, Tokugawa is only 1 year older than Mouri.

Summer of his first year in shintenhoji? Ok. Now it is clear. But we do not know, maybe other G10 are in weak schools, or did not attend a tennis club back in their middle school.Seigaku and Shinten does not have a G10 Alumni player.

With Ochi, I see him as a tough matchup for Ohmagari. If you go by stats, Ochi has 7, and Ohmagari at 3. I think that big gap of a difference in mental will be a huge advantage for Ochi. You could argue that Ohmagari has 7 stamina and Ochi has only 4. But it will not matter anymore if Ohmagari is already affected by Ochi mental pressure. I am not saying Ochi and Ohmagari should switch. But I think he have this what YOU called "Matchup advantage".( YOU used that in Dodo Vs Tatsuta match, and Alan vs peter match).


So you see 1-5 as switchables, and 6-10 are definite. But WHY? They are all in Genius 10

Is it because 1-5 have more promince in the story, and they likely have more powerups????
 
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But we do not know, maybe other G10 are in weak schools, or did not attend a tennis club back in their middle school.
Well, we do know some things about them:
  • Byoudouin was in Makinofuji and personally I would guess they won the nationals three years ago. Makinofuji was regarded as a strong school going into this season, Byoudouin won the newcomer tournament two years ago and when he first faced Oni at the camp, he indicated that he hadn't been pushed during the school tournaments. So you had a great ace player and probably a good team otherwise to back him up.
  • In contrast, Oni was apparently in a weaker school since Byoudouin didn't know him.
  • Tanegashima and Irie both went to Maikozaka, who also made the nationals this year and might've been in a similar position to Makinofuji back then (though there's definitely less context hints).
  • Ochi attended Hyoutei and lead them to the nationals during that year. You're correct that they didn't win Kanto, but regardless of which school Mouri attended at the time, it's very unlikely that he took out Ochi considering their results from this year's tournament.
  • Duke and Tokugawa were both in France, so they definitely weren't a factor during the MS nationals.
Ohmagari, Kimijima and Tohno are ambiguous though.

With Ochi, I see him as a tough matchup for Ohmagari. If you go by stats, Ochi has 7, and Ohmagari at 3. I think that big gap of a difference in mental will be a huge advantage for Ochi. You could argue that Ohmagari has 7 stamina and Ochi has only 4. But it will not matter anymore if Ohmagari is already affected by Ochi mental pressure. I am not saying Ochi and Ohmagari should switch. But I think he have this what YOU called "Matchup advantage".
It depends on how the match goes, but it's possible for sure. The way I see it, Ochi's Mental is less of an advantage than e.g. Kimijima's against Ohmagari because of how these stats were determined. Here's why:

Ochi's Mental Assassin doesn't create pressure out of thin air, but amplifies pressure that already exists. This tends to be close to the end of a set or during big points. At the same time, Ohmagari's Mental description says that he has "absolute confidence in himself", which to me reads as if he wouldn't actually feel pressure when he's serving for the set or serving to stay in the set. This is arguably supported by him scoffing at Atobe in chapter 75 for double faulting during the decisive game of the opening set.

Essentially, Atobe (and Evangelos) had a mind set of "I have to hold serve", but I think in the same situation, Ohmagari would more likely think "I will hold serve" and treat it as a matter of course. So he wouldn't put any pressure on himself that Ochi could then amplify.

That's not to say Ohmagari will never feel pressure and never fall prey to Ochi's assassination. Ohmagari's Mental description goes on to say that he "looks down on lower-ranked opponents", so I would expect him to waver if Ochi managed to break Ohmagari's service game for example. And that's not impossible in my eyes, but it's not easy either. There's two points I would consider here:
  • Ochi vs Heracles had the same dust clouds as Byoudouin vs Oni did and we haven't seen those appear in Ohmagari's, Kimijima's or Tohno's matches. It's not entirely clear what the dust clouds symbolize, but it was probably very high-level play.
  • On the flip side, Ochi is a counter puncher, meaning most points he wins outside his service aces won't be quick, but drawn-out ones. You can see that in both the 9/10 match, where him and Mouri were mostly defending rather than finishing points fast, and the match against Greece where he ultimately drew an error off Heracles instead of hitting a winner. It'd probably be similar against Ohmagari because Nitouryuu gives Ohmagari quite good court coverage.
Because of the second point, Ohmagari's stamina lead might actually be a very significant factor even in the earlier stages of the match.

Looking at the match from the other side, Ochi also needs to be careful that he holds his service games. This shouldn't be a problem when he hits Mach at full power, but, as noted before, he can't do that in every one of his service games in singles. If he slows his serve down, I think Ohmagari can return it - he seems to be a good returner in general and once again indicated as much during the no. 9/10 match. Each time Ohmagari returns Mach, you're also probably looking at another drawn-out rally.

With all that said, if Ochi does manage to apply pressure to Ohmagari and then amplify it, I agree with you that he'll go on to win the match. In the end, the open question in my mind is how often Ochi can break Ohmagari's serve. Personally, I'm inclined to say it would happen in less than 50% of their matches, but others may see it differently.




I also want to briefly expand on what I said at the beginning, that Kimijima's 7 is more valuable than Ochi's against Ohmagari. The final bit of Ohmagari's Mental description that I haven't touched on yet says that he "tends to accept challenges and proposals from his opponents readily". Ochi would never take advantage of that because of how straight-laced he is, but it reads like great fodder for negotiations.

Kimijima will struggle even more on the physical side though. Unlike Ochi, who at least also has Speed going for him, Kimijima wins in none of the other stats. He ties Ohmagari in Speed, but is worse in Power, Technique, and of course Stamina. He essentially needs really great variety to outplay Ohmagari for two sets straight, which doesn't strike me as an easy task.

Is it because 1-5 have more promince in the story, and they likely have more powerups????
That's part of it, but not all. For 6-10, we know all their stats and I'm not expecting to see any new abilities from them for the rest of the series. Tohno is out of the picture, Kimijima and Mouri have already played and I'm inclined to say Ochi's match against Greece was his last one too. Ohmagari could potentially still play, but I think his role will be to train up Kite instead. In other words, we know quite a bit about all of them and are unlikely to see more.

It's different for the top 5. Byoudouin's and Oni's stats are hidden, and Byoudouin potentially has a move he didn't use in the no. 1 match. The boost Tokugawa gets from Asura is difficult to quantify. So even without considering that Byoudouin, Tanegashima and Tokugawa might still play another match, there's a lot more unknowns in this group.
 

André Vinícius

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My rank:

10. Mouri (maybe Tohno)
09. Tohno (maybe Mouri)
08. Kimijima (maybe Ochi)
07. Ochi (maybe Kimijima)
06. Ohmagari
05. Duke
04. Oni
03. Tanegashima
02. Byodoin
01. Tokugawa

Sanada and akutsu easily breaks that two style rocket. And genius 10 have higher stats than MS right? So tohno have higher stats than sanada and akutsu. That is why I think Tohno could hit an execution against ohmagari. maybe not all execution, but i am sure some will hit.

I think almost all of posters here will put Ohmagari at 10. And so far, it is the case, look at the rankings above, it is consensus that he is the weakest.
Wasn't the one who break Ohmagari defense Sanada ? like Sanada and Akutsu 2x1 couldn't break his defense and even tried to make the match an endurance match before knowing Ohmagari had the biggest stamina on G10, then Sanada managed to break through using black aura (that we all must agree seems almost invincible when used agaisnt only 1 opponent).

And about Tohno executions, weren't they stoped by the one you said were one of the weakest MSr on the team (Marui) ? wich feat exactly put Tohno above Ohmagari ? almost dying to beat 2 MSr ? maybe slipping the racket on Marui face because he wasn't managing to break his wall ? am I the only one that thinks Tohno is the joke of the G10 ?

Now about Tokugawa in 01. it's simply because from what was show it seems that if Tokugawa didn't take the Glowing Shot the night before the match he would have beat Byodoin. Nothing that Byodoin has show until now can pass the Black Hole and the only one that broke black hole until now was Volk.

If we are going on about Byodoin didn't show everything he can do or he's gonna have a power up, ok I can also say the same thing about Tokugawa, Tanegashima, Irie, Ohmagari etc, so I will put all of them on number 01 because they can show something in the future.

But in general the problem lies with the order of the top 5 because my rank above was only about themselves it doesn't take in consideration outside factors, for example (it's only an hypothetical situation) Tokugawa can beat Byo, but Tokugawa can't beat Volk, Byo can beat Volk, so who's stronger Byo or Toku ? Byo lost to Toku but Byo defeated someone Toku couldn't, so how can we put one above the other in this situation ? I think in general this example cover the entire top 5 situation, it's about the "matchup advantage" in my opinion Tokugawa would have a hard time to beat Ohmagari because Tokugawa lack offensive power seeing as Black Hole is used to "stop any shot" and Ohmagari plays more defensively so it would go on stamina and Ohmagari would won but I wouldn't put Ohmagari first just because he has more chance to win this match vs Toku while doesn't have a chance agaisnt Oni or Byodoin
 

mathematicianrcg

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My rank:

10. Mouri (maybe Tohno)
09. Tohno (maybe Mouri)
08. Kimijima (maybe Ochi)
07. Ochi (maybe Kimijima)
06. Ohmagari
05. Duke
04. Oni
03. Tanegashima
02. Byodoin
01. Tokugawa



Wasn't the one who break Ohmagari defense Sanada ? like Sanada and Akutsu 2x1 couldn't break his defense and even tried to make the match an endurance match before knowing Ohmagari had the biggest stamina on G10, then Sanada managed to break through using black aura (that we all must agree seems almost invincible when used agaisnt only 1 opponent).

And about Tohno executions, weren't they stoped by the one you said were one of the weakest MSr on the team (Marui) ? wich feat exactly put Tohno above Ohmagari ? almost dying to beat 2 MSr ? maybe slipping the racket on Marui face because he wasn't managing to break his wall ? am I the only one that thinks Tohno is the joke of the G10 ?

Now about Tokugawa in 01. it's simply because from what was show it seems that if Tokugawa didn't take the Glowing Shot the night before the match he would have beat Byodoin. Nothing that Byodoin has show until now can pass the Black Hole and the only one that broke black hole until now was Volk.

If we are going on about Byodoin didn't show everything he can do or he's gonna have a power up, ok I can also say the same thing about Tokugawa, Tanegashima, Irie, Ohmagari etc, so I will put all of them on number 01 because they can show something in the future.

But in general the problem lies with the order of the top 5 because my rank above was only about themselves it doesn't take in consideration outside factors, for example (it's only an hypothetical situation) Tokugawa can beat Byo, but Tokugawa can't beat Volk, Byo can beat Volk, so who's stronger Byo or Toku ? Byo lost to Toku but Byo defeated someone Toku couldn't, so how can we put one above the other in this situation ? I think in general this example cover the entire top 5 situation, it's about the "matchup advantage" in my opinion Tokugawa would have a hard time to beat Ohmagari because Tokugawa lack offensive power seeing as Black Hole is used to "stop any shot" and Ohmagari plays more defensively so it would go on stamina and Ohmagari would won but I wouldn't put Ohmagari first just because he has more chance to win this match vs Toku while doesn't have a chance agaisnt Oni or Byodoin
Yeah. You convinced me that Tohno is the joke of the genius 10. Being stopped by Marui will really showed him how he is weaker than his peers. So I will put Tohno at 10, and Ohmagari at 9 or 8.(Depends on Ikuto's improvement)

Yeah. You are right. Transitive property cannot be applied here. If A>B, and B>C, then A> C. This will not apply to tennis players even in real life. There is what you called "NEMESIS".

Best example of nemesis would be Tezuka
Tezuka is the nemesis of Ryoma. Ryoma always beat players that beats tezuka. But Ryoma cannot beat Tezuka.

Atobe/Sanada beat Tezuka
Ryoma beat Atobe/Sanada
Tezuka beat Ryoma.

That is one example of transitive property being not applicable.

Another would be:

Akaya Beat Tachibana
Tachibana Beat Fuji
Fuji Beat Akaya
 

Kaoz

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And about Tohno executions, weren't they stoped by the one you said were one of the weakest MSr on the team (Marui) ? wich feat exactly put Tohno above Ohmagari ? almost dying to beat 2 MSr ? maybe slipping the racket on Marui face because he wasn't managing to break his wall ?
It's probably worth mentioning that Tohno played at 60% against Marui for most of the match though. When he started going all-out was also when the racket slipped out of his hand, so there's very little data about whether he could've broken down Wonder Castle normally over time or not. Also, even though they're his special moves, the executions aren't the main reason why Tohno's part of the G10. According to what Tanegashima said in chapter 233, Tohno's selling point is his strong spirit.

Granted, that's difficult to factor into these sorts of discussions, but it shouldn't be completely disregarded either.

Now about Tokugawa in 01. it's simply because from what was show it seems that if Tokugawa didn't take the Glowing Shot the night before the match he would have beat Byodoin. Nothing that Byodoin has show until now can pass the Black Hole and the only one that broke black hole until now was Volk.
Personally, my concerns with putting Tokugawa higher up is that he didn't draw out the same strength against Volk as he did against Byoudouin. There was definitely a change for the better again at the end, but in my eyes it's important to see how his base power compares to other players.

There's also Black Hole's time limit, so it's not reliable over the course of two or even three entire sets.
 
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