Voting Round 1 Reinhard van Astrea vs. Miyamoto Musashi

[Sky]

Battle Phase

• You are allowed to vote for one champion.
• After 5 days, the champion with the most votes will proceed into the next round.
• In case of a tie, a staff pick will break it.
• There will be no additional restrictions. A character will have access to all of his/her abilities according to the lore.

 

[Static]

What are the feats for Musashi?

 

[Sky]

What are the feats for Musashi?

Apparently her chest.

 

[Jammin]

She's sort of Dr Who. Wandering across time and space and dueling things. She has a couple of abilities that might be a good match for ReZero characters but I don't really know what Reihard does either so maybe not.

I'll try and explain them in a bit, as they are a bit complicated for the time I've got right now.

Cliff notes version

Minds Eye. Can replay battles infinitely until she finds a successful strategy.
Void Sword. Or the void, not sure what it's called. Sword that shaves away all outcomes except for the desired one. Blade that can cut even gods.

 

[Sky]

Reinhard is able to gain any Divine Protection he wishes for. He just needs to be rather "clear" with his intentions.
He also has an ability which makes his first strike hit by default. He pairs that with "The Swordplay of the Astrea Family" which is a a swordstrike powerful enough to cut space in half.

While Musashi is an outstanding swordmaster, Reinhards simply overpowers that with unrivaled strength.

 

[Lambu]

Battle of the Swordmasters in Round 1

Ive read the entire Musashi entry in her wikia and she's actually not bad as a Servant. I would say she's below Reid (First Sword Saint and Reinhard's ancestor) but not so far away that she cannot fight him, it would be a cool fight even.

Reinhard stomps even without the Dragon Sword tho so lets see if Sam knows something more than what the wikia says.

 

[Jammin]

Battle of the Swordmasters in Round 1

Ive read the entire Musashi entry in her wikia and she's actually not bad as a Servant. I would say she's below Reid (First Sword Saint and Reinhard's ancestor) but not so far away that she cannot fight him, it would be a cool fight even.

Reinhard stomps even without the Dragon Sword tho so lets see if Sam knows something more than what the wikia says.

So he gets around minds eye via reverse causality stuff then? Before she can activate her reverse causality stuff? She also has Emptiness which makes her invincible for a moment I believe. So she might be able to tank that first hit.

Judging from how you talk about him though I'm guessing Rienhard has got some tanky cheat of his own though. If that's the case I feel like they trade blows but eventually he'd wear her down.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 23, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 23, 2021 ---

I guess my question about Reinhard is after he is cut, because with the way Musashi's ability works the target WILL be cut, can he heal that or tank it in some way? As her ability is supposed to go through even a god and so probably it can't be stopped by divine protection but it's not necessarily fatal.

 

[Sky]

I guess my question about Reinhard is after he is cut, because with the way Musashi's ability works the target WILL be cut, can he heal that or tank it in some way? As her ability is supposed to go through even a god and so probably can't be stopped by divine protection but it's not necessarily fatal.

Yes he can. His nearly unlimited Mana he draws from everywhere will do that for him.
And if his first strike doesn't this he uses his strongest one, basically destroying the world while rebuilding it a moment later. Destroying everything in his path.

 

[Demonspeed]

Very curious about this one. Reinhard's seems to be pretty broken but from what I have seen he has never been particularly dominant in battle.

But I am anime-only so...

 

[Jammin]

Yes he can. His nearly unlimited Mana he draws from everywhere will do that for him.
And if his first strike doesn't this he uses his strongest one, basically destroying the world while rebuilding it a moment later. Destroying everything in his path.

Does mana heal him then?

This is the point I'm curious about because the way I'd imagine this fight would play out right now is that he'd get first shot due to his abilty. Musashi would reduce herself to nothingness making herself invulnerably to harm. She'd counter. He would be cut by that in whatever way Musashi wished and that result cannot be prevented by the nature of her ability(since it's reverse causality). If he could survive that somehow though then I think he'd win. If he can't, she'd win.

So, like if she cuts his head off, does his mana heal that? Because her "minds eye" abilty ensures she will cut him in the way with the best chance at victory, if one exists.

 

[Sky]

Does mana heal him then?

This is the point I'm curious about because the way I'd imagine this fight would play out right now is that he'd get first shot due to his abilty. Musashi would reduce herself to nothingness making herself invulnerably to harm. She'd counter. He would be cut by that in whatever way Musashi wished and that result cannot be prevented by the nature of her ability(since it's reverse causality). If he could survive that somehow though than I think he'd win. If he can't, she'd win.

So, like if she cuts his head off, does his mana heal that? Because her "minds eye" abilty ensures she will cut him in the way with the best chance at victory, if one exists.

Causality doesn't really work against Reinhardt.

"To name just a few of his combat oriented abilities; 80% of all magic attacks from all six magic types is dispersed away or neutralized, he gets stronger when he's standing under the blue sky, rainy sky, night sky and when he's bleeding, he can move at superhuman speeds, any projectile thrown against him automatically changes their trajectory making him unable to get hit by projectiles, he cannot get ambushed and the first attack will always miss unless he willingly takes the hit, the following attacks will also miss unless he's physically unable to avoid them."

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 23, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 23, 2021 ---

Very curious about this one. Reinhard's seems to be pretty broken but from what I have seen he has never been particularly dominant in battle.

But I am anime-only so...

If they - and we hope so - make Season 3, you will see him in action.
He is a monster.

 

[Jammin]

Causality doesn't really work against Reinhardt.

"To name just a few of his combat oriented abilities; 80% of all magic attacks from all six magic types is dispersed away or neutralized, he gets stronger when he's standing under the blue sky, rainy sky, night sky and when he's bleeding, he can move at superhuman speeds, any projectile thrown against him automatically changes their trajectory making him unable to get hit by projectiles, he cannot get ambushed and the first attack will always miss unless he willingly takes the hit, the following attacks will also miss unless he's physically unable to avoid them."

How that defend him against Musashi though? Since what her ability does is create a "conclusion" of her choice. And then reality aligns to it. It's reality warp of sorts that can effect even gods. The result is always certain with her attack. Because what she's cutting isn't Reinhard it's all the realities where Reinhard isn't cut in the way she wants.

The weakness for her is that all she can do is cut things. If that doesn't kill something she's in a lot of trouble. But she can cut anything.

 

[Sky]

How that defend him against Musashi though. Since what her ability does is create a conclusion. And then reality aligns to it. It's reality warp of sorts that can effect even gods. The result is always certain with her attack.

That is like Gae Bolg and even that could be averted.
We have a clash of to abilities here which basically cancel each other out?
Reinhards divine blessings simply avert that fate for him and if he needs a new one, it will appear and boost him.

 

[Lambu]

So he gets around minds eye via reverse causality stuff then? Before she can activate her reverse causality stuff? She also has Emptiness which makes her invincible for a moment I believe. So she might be able to tank that first hit.

Judging from how you talk about him though I'm guessing Rienhard has got some tanky cheat of his own though. If that's the case I feel like they trade blows but eventually he'd wear her down.

Reinhard's skill with the sword is on the technical aspect on pair with Reid's, who is the absolute peak of swordsmanship when he's serious, so he has perfect martial ability with a sword: perfect attack and defense.

That alone is already very hard for Musashi to find an opening (he's way WAY stronger and faster than her) but when tied with his base blessings its just overkill.

Here are the three Sky talked about:

Initiative: He cannot be ambushed, and all initial attacks from Reinhardt connects.

First attack immunity: The first time an attack is performed at Reinhardt, it always misses.

Preceeding attack immunity: The second attack and all following attacks misses him.


As far as Im concerned, Mind's eye allows her to find the perfect way to battle her foe by trial and error so she can find a way to win and executes that one, but that only applies if her chances of success arent zero of course.

In Fate terms just imagine Reinhard's stats as an A+ on everything except Luck as a flat A, Mana as E and two NPs that are A++ and EX respectively.

 

[Valhalla]

Damn, its pretty hard to one up each other when all the abilities are just absolutes lol

 

[Sky]

I'll leave the stage to the master, so Lambu can start this fight... ... ... from zero.

 

[Jammin]

Reinhard's skill with the sword is on the technical aspect on pair with Reid's, who is the absolute peak of swordsmanship when he's serious, so he has perfect martial ability with a sword: perfect attack and defense.

That alone is already very hard for Musashi to find an opening (he's way WAY stronger and faster than her) but when tied with his base blessings its just overkill.

Here are the three Sky talked about:

Initiative: He cannot be ambushed, and all initial attacks from Reinhardt connects.

First attack immunity: The first time an attack is performed at Reinhardt, it always misses.

Preceeding attack immunity: The second attack and all following attacks misses him.


As far as Im concerned, Mind's eye allows her to find the perfect way to battle her foe by trial and error so she can find a way to win and executes that one, but that only applies if her chances of success arent zero of course.

In Fate terms just imagine Reinhard's stats as an A+ on everything except Luck as a flat A, Mana as E and two NPs that are A++ and EX respectively.

So now we find ourselves faced with an interesting question. A character who cannot be hit and a character who cannot miss. But in Musashi's case her ability specifically says it can cut gods. So assuming divinity is the source of Rienhards protections why would his override hers when it specifically states that divinity is no defense.

Musashi is not physically cutting Rienhard at all. What she's cutting away is every reality other than one where he is cut in the in the way she wants. That's how it works. The cut part is absolute.

And can you actually answer the question I keep asking? Say Reinhard has his head cut off, just for the sake of the argument, can he take that and keep fighting? If he can than this discussion is moot. If he can't,,,, I feel like Musashi has the edge here.

 

[Lambu]

Ah missed this

So, like if she cuts his head off, does his mana heal that? Because her "minds eye" abilty ensures she will cut him in the way with the best chance at victory, if one exists.

Fun fact: her sword would not be able to kill him unless she straight up beheads him, which is impossible for the nature of his blessings and how absurdly sturdy he is... yeah he's extremely tanky.

Also in the case that she managed to make him bleed he will get stronger cause of it, her chances are effectively zero.

 

[Jammin]

Much the way he gets the first strike because his ability grants him that and she has no protections for that. All she can do is tank it via nothingness.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 24, 2021 ---

Ah missed this



Fun fact: her sword would not be able to kill him unless she straight up beheads him, which is impossible for the nature of his blessings and how absurdly sturdy he is... yeah he's extremely tanky.

Also in the case that she managed to make him bleed he will get stronger cause of it, her chances are effectively zero.

You still didn't answer my question. Say she did cut his head off. What would happen? Would he die?

Because the nature of her ability is that if she wanted to cut his head off. His head would be cut off. Even if protected by a god or a gods divine power.

 

[Lambu]

And can you actually answer the question I keep asking? Say Reinhard has his head cut off, just for the sake of the argument, can he take that and keep fighting? If he can than this discussion is moot. If he can't,,,, I feel like Musashi has the edge here.

She lacks the power to kill him, powers above divine hit him and he managed to tank them (tho he took damage).
Also yes in the case he stood there arms close and took the hit with his defenses down he would not be defeated, dont want to delve into it so soon tho.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 24, 2021 ---

Because the nature of her ability is that if she wanted to cut his head off. His head would be cut off. Even if protected by a god or a gods divine power.

That is not what the wikia says tho, it says that if she can do it, it will happen. If it was as you said she would be able to defeat anything and I already saw she couldnt win against foes weaker than Reinhard.