Politics Rise of Marxism/Communism.

[Ramen]

So I wanted to make this thread to see if there are other people who have Pro-Marxist and Pro-Communist and Pro-Socialist beliefs.

What are your thoughts on it and how do you feel about the rise of the "Left" in today's society?

If there are people who disagree I'd love to have a discussion on those topics as well.

 

[M3J]

I'm a left wing, but not that far left. Like, I believe the wealthy should redistribute their wealth to help the impoverished, but I'm also okay with billionaires being a thing, which many left wingers I've seen don't believe should exist.

 

[Ramen]

I'm a left wing, but not that far left. Like, I believe the wealthy should redistribute their wealth to help the impoverished, but I'm also okay with billionaires being a thing, which many left wingers I've seen don't believe should exist.

Are you more Libertarian or Authoritarian? Tbh, I don't see the need for billionaires.

 

[M3J]

No idea.

Me either but I also don't care if they exist. Just not at the expense of the poor/workers.

 

[Ramen]

No idea.

More or less government basically.

Me either but I also don't care if they exist. Just not at the expense of the poor/workers

That's the problem. It's always at the expense of the workers/poor. Just look at Saudi Arabia treating Indian/Pakistani workers over there. Dude had to be a walking hand sanitize machine for the businessmen and businesswoman.

Whole Foods CEO decided to ask his employees to donate their sick leave days instead of raising benefits.

Jeff Bezos is always under fire for the way Amazon treats their workers.

 

[M3J]

I still have no idea, it depends. All I care about is people being able to survive without difficulty.

Yes, that's my issue with billionaires like Bezos and Bill Gates, who's exploited Africa for resources, if I recall correctly.

 

[kkck]

Communism? Really? it's 2020, communism has predictable failed catastrophically on every front for decades. All it has ever produced is misery, poverty and death. It can't work, history proves time and time again that it can't deliver and it never will. Without even going as far as communism, mere socialist states have produced nothing but misery and death.

 

[Ramen]

Communism? Really? it's 2020, communism has predictable failed catastrophically on every front for decades. All it has ever produced is misery, poverty and death. It can't work, history proves time and time again that it can't deliver and it never will. Without even going as far as communism, mere socialist states have produced nothing but misery and death.

So may I ask what's your political ideology?

 

[kkck]

I suppose from your perspective I'd be on the right wing. Within a US context I'd probably be left of center though (I support universal health care, higher taxes to pay for education and healthcare, crackdowns on white collar crimes and such things).

 

[Ramen]

I suppose from your perspective I'd be on the right wing. Within a US context I'd probably be left of center though (I support universal health care, higher taxes to pay for education and healthcare, crackdowns on white collar crimes and such things).

Not really, I mean a lot of people hate Communism. You're a DemSoc then I'd assume? Plus I'm in Canada, our politics is very similar assuming you're from the US.

Aside from ideologies for a second, what is your thoughts on the US dumping trillions of dollars into Wall Street in order to keep the economy afloat? But then turn around and say we can't afford free education and health care?

The most communist thing about me is that I hate billionaires. Other than that I'm more Socialist.

 

[M3J]

Not really, I mean a lot of people hate Communism. You're a DemSoc then I'd assume? Plus I'm in Canada, our politics is very similar assuming you're from the US.

Aside from ideologies for a second, what is your thoughts on the US dumping trillions of dollars into Wall Street in order to keep the economy afloat? But then turn around and say we can't afford free education and health care?

The most communist thing about me is that I hate billionaires. Other than that I'm more Socialist.

Mostly republicans who say that, and they're full of shit. They had no problem pumping trillions of dollars into bailing out corporations that were irresponsible, but they will ask where the money will come from whenever issues of what's best for people is brought up.

 

[Ramen]

Mostly republicans who say that, and they're full of shit. They had no problem pumping trillions of dollars into bailing out corporations that were irresponsible, but they will ask where the money will come from whenever issues of what's best for people is brought up.

IIRC, they are going to put a trillion a day into wall street. THAT"S 30 TRILLION. You could cancel debt, have free public college, free healthcare and better housing with less than half.

Also, why spend so much on the military.

 

[kkck]

Pumping money into the economy when its failing is just basic economic theory... On that end at least the bailouts are perfectly reasonable. Their main defect would be that they tend to be aimed strictly at corporations and wall street, which is but a fraction of the economy rather than to low and middle income households which make up the bulk of the economy.

 

[Ramen]

Pumping money into the economy when its failing is just basic economic theory... On that end at least the bailouts are perfectly reasonable. Their main defect would be that they tend to be aimed strictly at corporations and wall street, which is but a fraction of the economy rather than to low and middle income households which make up the bulk of the economy.

I was going for more the hypocrisy of conservatives with that one but yea this is true.

 

[M3J]

IIRC, they are going to put a trillion a day into wall street. THAT"S 30 TRILLION. You could cancel debt, have free public college, free healthcare and better housing with less than half.

Also, why spend so much on the military.

That's quite a bit of wasted money that could be used to help people, especially when these people still have to pay bills like rent and credit card, even if you cancel student loans and provide free healthcare.

Pumping money into the economy when its failing is just basic economic theory... On that end at least the bailouts are perfectly reasonable. Their main defect would be that they tend to be aimed strictly at corporations and wall street, which is but a fraction of the economy rather than to low and middle income households which make up the bulk of the economy.

How would that help when some of these corporations will lay off people anyway, and majority of the people won't get the money they need to sustain themselves? If they don't have money, then they won't be able to buy stuff. I'm privileged in that I usually make more than my bills, but what about those who live paycheck to paycheck and don't have a job and still have to pay bills?

 

[kkck]

How would that help when some of these corporations will lay off people anyway, and majority of the people won't get the money they need to sustain themselves? If they don't have money, then they won't be able to buy stuff. I'm privileged in that I usually make more than my bills, but what about those who live paycheck to paycheck and don't have a job and still have to pay bills?

Not sure of what you mean here. Are you suggesting the bailouts were wrong altogether? My point was that they bailouts should be directed at corporations and ALSO to low and middle income folk.

 

[M3J]

Not sure of what you mean here. Are you suggesting the bailouts were wrong altogether? My point was that they bailouts should be directed at corporations and ALSO to low and middle income folk.

Yes. At best, I only agree with billions of dollars going to corporations, but trillions of dollars going to low and middle income people. Why should corporations get tons of money, like airplane companies buying back their own stocks, when people who live paycheck to paycheck need it more?

 

[kkck]

Yes. At best, I only agree with billions of dollars going to corporations, but trillions of dollars going to low and middle income people. Why should corporations get tons of money, like airplane companies buying back their own stocks, when people who live paycheck to paycheck need it more?

Why billions and not trillions? A bailout's size is determined by how much money the economy needs to not tank. It's pointless to give a billion dollar bailout if its not enough to actually bail out something. Setting a limit at however many billions is just arbitrary and serves no one. The point should be where and how the money is directed. And this isn't an issue where companies getting money means middle and low income people aren't getting any. Or middle and low income people getting it means businesses aren't getting any. Both can get bailouts if the situation requires it.

When it comes to the US I would argue politician's main issue regarding capitalism is that they don't get it. Trump, republicans, democrats... If you read adam smith's The wealth of nations his ideal capitalistic model is... you having a number of businesses which produce stuff. In turn the wealth of options gives consumers their pick at whatever which in turn encourages prices to go down. This is specifically a model where you are basically telling businesses to go fuck themselves and give all the power to consumers. Capitalism isn't about businesses, its about consumers. Of course, you need businesses, they are important, but the point is that businesses shouldn't be the ones who have the power. Capitalism is about having a ton of companies competing with each other, in turn today you have have increasingly larger corporations that basically grow by buying stuff rather than competing. You have politicians who keep taking away consumer power in favor of these increasingly fewer corporations. Suddenly protecting consumers for those helpless monopolies and oligopolies is socialism... And this extends also to taxing... Suddenly taxing large corporations and billionaires is punishing success while taxing poor and middle income people is society getting back its due from worthless leeches who lack the dignity of a rat.

 

[M3J]

Primarily because people would need the money more than corporations that'll just continue to be irresponsible and give most of it to the board and CEOs? Why should people get $1,500 once while corporations get trillions of dollars every day, week, or whatnot? What's the point of giving corporations money if more and more people won't be able to afford their goods/services because they're too busy scrounging to pay their bills or lose their homes?

 

[Ramen]

Primarily because people would need the money more than corporations that'll just continue to be irresponsible and give most of it to the board and CEOs? Why should people get $1,500 once while corporations get trillions of dollars every day, week, or whatnot? What's the point of giving corporations money if more and more people won't be able to afford their goods/services because they're too busy scrounging to pay their bills or lose their homes?

Tbh with everything going on, I've seen people advocate for Corporatism. I don't see what that would do though.