Fantasy Rob Lucci vs Doflamingo

[weixiaobao]

Since we still don't really know the mechanism of Parasite. Let's leave that off the table.
Two DFA masters, who will come out on top.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

 

[weixiaobao]

I hope there is a better analysis than this. Because I remembered over 10 years ago, people are like so sure Lucci could beat Crocodile and Enel. And it was basically the same logical thinking.

 

[Nie Li]

I hope there is a better analysis than this. Because I remembered over 10 years ago, people are like so sure Lucci could beat Crocodile and Enel. And it was basically the same logical thinking.

The only reason pre-TS Lucci couldn't beat Crocodile was lack of basic haki to ignore his invulnerability. Enel would have won regardless.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2023, Original Post Date: Jan 20, 2023 ---

I don't feel like giving much arguments for Lucci vs Doflamingo, call me lazy, but I made my opinion clear with that like.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2023 ---

Actually there's something to add about what I said regarding Lucci vs Crocodile. If pre-TS Luffy could beat Crocodile with just some water (/blood) so could Lucci with no difficulty as long as he knew about that weakness.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

More reasoning?

Doffy lost to a staminainefficent luffy in g4.

Lucci still lives and commands other people while fighting luffy in his looneytoonform.

I dont think its even close when we call parasite strings out from the beginning.

 

[weixiaobao]

More reasoning?

Doffy lost to a staminainefficent luffy in g4.

Lucci still lives and commands other people while fighting luffy in his looneytoonform.

I dont think its even close when we call parasite strings out from the beginning.

Yup, you posted exactly what I think you going to post. When Lucci low dif Luffy in Water 7. That was the basis in which people said Lucci is tiers higher than Enel and Crocodile. When Luffy struggled so much against Cracker. People then put Jack and Cracker a tier above Doffy. The fandom had already evolved from that. Nowsadays, people would said Enel (without intangibility) is still stronger than Lucci and that Crocodile preskipped even without intangibility should be on par with Lucci. This is consider Lucci had haki preskipped. And nowsadays, a more sizable of people now think Doffy is on par with Cracker and as strong or stronger than Jack.

When I post this thread, I already anticipate why people said Lucci is stronger. But I hope they will go deeper than this. Because Luffy was just toying with Lucci. And it is hard to powerscale in that kind of scenario. If Mr 1 only have ever show up in Marineford and never before that. Then you look at his clash with Mihawk and said wow he still alive after it. And that Crocodile blocked Mihawk. Does that meant anything? Did Mihawk seriously try to harm Luffy when Mr 1 and Crocodile rushed to defend him?

And what if Lucci vs Luffy in Egghead. And Luffy just straight up using one of his stronger attacks on Kaido agaisnt Lucci and knocked Lucci out. Does that tell us anything in regard to Lucci in term of where he is against Doffy? Because as far as the last few chapters go. Despite Lucci going all out against Luffy, it barely bothered Luffy. And that Luffy doesn't seemed to AC haki or even hardening (though one panel is sort of questionable) against Lucci. And Lucci almost down for the count on some basic Gear 5 attack. Had Luffy stayed and punch him a couple more of time or knocked him into the ocean. He maybe down for good. It is all about the nature of the attack. Like can he tank Law's Gamma Knife. Lucci has good recovery rate, but that doesn't meant he can deal with all his eternal organs ruptured on the spot.

Contexts matter a lot.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

And Lucci almost down for the count on some basic Gear 5 attack

While Doffy was down for the count by a basic G4 attack.

 

[Ricko]

Interesting match, I think many people overhyping Lucci, he haven't shown anything who could put him far ahead of Dofli.

A far nerfed Doffy could stalemate a time G4 Luffy once the surpise effect past. And remember he loose because his proud push him to do a pwoer contest against G4 Luffy, something really foolish.
But Doffy could just gain time until G4 is depleted, and win because of superior stamina, and power.

Now Lucci performance against G5 Luffy, is far less impressive than Zoro performance against Kaido.
Add that Rooftop Zoro was not even 1st Commander level at that moment, and G5 Luffy is weaker than Kaido !!!
We can deduce that Lucci is not 1s commander level, and I think not close. Not Sure that Kata or King would have been fodderized as he was...


Si the gap between Doffy and Lucci are not some wide than people think.
And we can also argue, would rooftop Zoro win against Doffy ?

Lucci may be more in Queen standard, I think a little bit stronger. Because of his superior combat skill he can take Doffy, but the hax power of the latter can also give a lot of trouble, especialy the awaken.
I'll go to 60/40 or 70/30 for Lucci because he manage to bypass Sentomaru's selfproclamed world class defense (but not his CoO or speed, he didn't blitzed him). That could tend to 50/50 because Doffy he's still a clever and talented fighter + I think he progressed after his defeat, like Crocodile did.

 

[XXGenesis]

Doflamingo’s most notable qualities was his Endurance/Stamina/DF Skill.

Doflamingo did not stalemate against G4. He Endured the onslaught of attacks; Luffy ran out of haki stamina; As soon as G4 came back into the picture he was outclassed once again.

GK makes no difference. Doflamingo has no answer, Defense or counter for G4 Luffy. Law did damage Doflamingo but he negated most of its damage by using his DF power.

That being said. Lucci actually stalemated once with G5 luffy once. I would think Lucci has better Haki, he’s faster…And slightly stronger.

O also. For comparison sake..G4 does not hit harder than G5. Doffy would have gotten wrecked by those 2 attacks also.

 

[Ricko]

Doflamingo’s most notable qualities was his Endurance/Stamina/DF Skill.

Doflamingo did not stalemate against G4. He Endured the onslaught of attacks; Luffy ran out of haki stamina; As soon as G4 came back into the picture he was outclassed once again.

GK makes no difference. Doflamingo has no answer, Defense or counter for G4 Luffy. Law did damage Doflamingo but he negated most of its damage by using his DF power.

That being said. Lucci actually stalemated once with G5 luffy once. I would think Lucci has better Haki, he’s faster…And slightly stronger.

O also. For comparison sake..G4 does not hit harder than G5. Doffy would have gotten wrecked by those 2 attacks also.

You should reread the fight !
Yes "BASE" Doflamingo was completly outclassed by G4 Luffy.
But once Doflamingo awaken his fruit the fight is no more one sided, he can block G4 attack and Luffy is even forced to dodge. (Doffy couldn't hurt him before)

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Then Luffy manage to hurt badly Doffy with Leo Bazooka, but that didn't even end the combat.
The fact is the fact... without help Luffy would have loose the fight, "Awaken" Doffy is superior to G4 Luffy... Sure, mainly because au Stamina, but that an important element in a fight...

I never said G4 hit harder than G5, and I do think that Doffy would not have do better than Lucci, as for me they are on equal ground.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Awaken" Doffy is superior to G4 Luffy..

Wait what.

 

[Ricko]

Wait what.

At Dressarosa G4 Luffy got far more power but deplete stamina quickly. It's a Canon glass technique, you blitz or you die.
Awaken Doffy is more versatile, he manage to endure the barrage of G4 and still fight warriors of Colisee.
Without their help to protect Luffy, Doflamingo would have win... Simple as that... I can't understand what you can't understand or at least show me my mistake.

The aspect of power blind you, but in the end the technique got a lot of flaw.
At Wano Luffy can keep G4 more longer, he would be far superior than Awaken Doffy.
But in Dressarosa, the lack of stamina would have made him loose without help...

Maybe if Luffy would have done Kong Gun at the beginning of the fight, he would have win.
But maybe not, it's possible that Doffy can endure Kong Gun, if he wasn't hit by Leo Bazooka before... We can't say.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

So wanoluffy is way stronger then dressrosaluffy, we established that?

And Lucci hold his own against a stronger Luffy who even switched up gears.

 

[Ricko]

So wanoluffy is way stronger then dressrosaluffy, we established that?

And Lucci hold his own against a stronger Luffy who even switched up gears.

Luffy was playing with him all the fight... It's not like if Luffy was absolutly needed G5 to beat Lucci...
We didn't saw Luffy Struggle with other form...
The first clash was a scene to remember Eny Loby...
For the moment I'm sure base Luffy with CoC coating would have been enough to beat Lucci... Just look how Zoro trash Kaku...
Until they show us better feat !

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Zoro trashing opponents is no fundament for a governmentsystem...

Joke aside he trashed Pika too. So even then this is no valid point.

 

[Ricko]

Zoro trashing opponents is no fundament for a governmentsystem...

Joke aside he trashed Pika too. So even then this is no valid point.

Think as you give no argument the conversation go in a circle ! Nice trolling.

 

[XXGenesis]

You should reread the fight !
Yes "BASE" Doflamingo was completly outclassed by G4 Luffy.
But once Doflamingo awaken his fruit the fight is no more one sided, he can block G4 attack and Luffy is even forced to dodge. (Doffy couldn't hurt him before)

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Then Luffy manage to hurt badly Doffy with Leo Bazooka, but that didn't even end the combat.
The fact is the fact... without help Luffy would have loose the fight, "Awaken" Doffy is superior to G4 Luffy... Sure, mainly because au Stamina, but that an important element in a fight...

I never said G4 hit harder than G5, and I do think that Doffy would not have do better than Lucci, as for me they are on equal ground.

G4 Vs Doflamingo In the Anime has Doflamingo doing a lot more than he did in the manga….In the manga it’s complete domination by G4.

Doflamingo’s Awakening gave him no edge over G4.

Lucci taking on G5 & getting low diff holds more weight over Doffy getting dominated by G4 arcs ago

 

[Ricko]

People give many expaction of Lucci just because he clashed G5 Luffy !!!

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Luffy G4 clashed Big Mom, but at that moment he was far away of 1st Commander level...

 

[grey matter]

G4 Vs Doflamingo In the Anime has Doflamingo doing a lot more than he did in the manga….In the manga it’s complete domination by G4.

Doflamingo’s Awakening gave him no edge over G4.

Lucci taking on G5 & getting low diff holds more weight over Doffy getting dominated by G4 arcs ago

Not making any points about Lucci vs Doffy here.........just some points about Doffy.


Two things to consider here:
1. Doflamingo was nerfed. We can't say for sure how nerfed he was, but was significant enough where he went from casually dodging G2 Luffy, to barely dodging G2 Luffy
Doffy easily dodging G2 gataling spam:

Spoiler

While post GK, Doffy had a hard time keeping up with G2, getting hit often (but with then commenting that Luffy's attacks were too weak to damage)


2. He was getting dominated only pre awakening. Awakening Doffy was actually on the same level as G4 Luffy, and foought equally with him for 20+ minutes.
Doflamingo starts using awakening and able to comfortably deal with G4 attacks (while prior he was getting smacked around):

Spoiler

20 more minutes passed, they are in stalemate:

Spoiler

Riku says they don't know if Luffy will win or not, again indicating a more or less even fight:

Spoiler

****************

What eventually happened was that Doffy's finisher got overpowered by Luffy's finisher.
No be noted however, is that KKG is G4 Luffy's strongest attack in terms of raw power. Just the impact of Doffy landing from that attack folded an entire city block in half!

This is similar to the ending of Wano, where Kaido's finisher clashed with G5 and he lost.
Where both Kaido and Doflamingo believe that their finisher was stronger and intended to take the attack head on, instead of working around it.

But just as how we don't know if Kaido could've overpowered if he didn't go through a gauntlet and was out of gas. I'd say a similar argument can be used for Doffy, whose power got nerfed after getting hit by gamma knife.
I'm not saying it's a 1:1 comparison, because the nerf argument for Kaido is more applicable since it was more of a tug of war there while Doffy's finisher got overpowered easier. But, just putting it out there

 

[john ellis]

G5 luffy no Diff’d Lucci as he would no diff doffy. He messed took 0 damage and won rather easily. Also can we please stop with this kaido is stronger then g5 he’s not. G5 luffy showed greater combat feats then kaido. He also won the battle overtpowered kaido and knocked him out. Kaido can not defeat gear 5 luffy.

back to the actual topic. This fight is close from the looks of it doffy probably barely takes it. Being a conquer he probably had slightly stronger Haki but otherwise there pretty even. Consumers tend to have better Haki of similar ranks.