Fantasy Rob Lucci vs Doflamingo

[XXGenesis]

Not making any points about Lucci vs Doffy here.........just some points about Doffy.


Two things to consider here:
1. Doflamingo was nerfed. We can't say for sure how nerfed he was, but was significant enough where he went from casually dodging G2 Luffy, to barely dodging G2 Luffy
Doffy easily dodging G2 gataling spam:

Spoiler

While post GK, Doffy had a hard time keeping up with G2, getting hit often (but with then commenting that Luffy's attacks were too weak to damage)


2. He was getting dominated only pre awakening. Awakening Doffy was actually on the same level as G4 Luffy, and foought equally with him for 20+ minutes.
Doflamingo starts using awakening and able to comfortably deal with G4 attacks (while prior he was getting smacked around):

Spoiler

20 more minutes passed, they are in stalemate:

Spoiler

Riku says they don't know if Luffy will win or not, again indicating a more or less even fight:

Spoiler

****************

What eventually happened was that Doffy's finisher got overpowered by Luffy's finisher.
No be noted however, is that KKG is G4 Luffy's strongest attack in terms of raw power. Just the impact of Doffy landing from that attack folded an entire city block in half!

This is similar to the ending of Wano, where Kaido's finisher clashed with G5 and he lost.
Where both Kaido and Doflamingo believe that their finisher was stronger and intended to take the attack head on, instead of working around it.

But just as how we don't know if Kaido could've overpowered if he didn't go through a gauntlet and was out of gas. I'd say a similar argument can be used for Doffy, whose power got nerfed after getting hit by gamma knife.
I'm not saying it's a 1:1 comparison, because the nerf argument for Kaido is more applicable since it was more of a tug of war there while Doffy's finisher got overpowered easier. But, just putting it out there

But did Doflamingo’s awakening give him any kind of edge? I say no it didn’t. It simply dragged the fight out longer. It gave him a way to defend but he still couldn’t hurt G4 Luffy. Because his haki wasn’t strong enough

Luffy also was fighting in the coliseum; Fought his way up to Castle; Even let Spring dude beat on him for a while….*I hate these caveats*…Point being 1 vs 1 Luffy didn’t need Law to win. Luffy would resort to G4 earlier in the fight; He would have retreated until he was caught, endure Doflamingo’s attack, then finish him off with a KKG.

Lucci’s best feat was the fist clash with G5 which threw both of them back. After that Lucci is just trying to keep up, he’s doesn’t and he gets No diff…Doflamingo isn’t a chump, but Lucci should be a tier or two above him.

Lucci Mid/High Diff Win.

 

[grey matter]

But did Doflamingo’s awakening give him any kind of edge? I say no it didn’t. It simply dragged the fight out longer. It gave him a way to defend but he still couldn’t hurt G4 Luffy. Because his haki wasn’t strong enough

They did hurt G4 Luffy
This was Luffy's state after coming out of G4. Just running out of stamina won't do this, you could see that in later instances where Luffy's G4 ran out. He was just tired and couldn't use haki.

Spoiler

Sabo: you look like hell

Spoiler

Luffy after the fight, was so injured that he was KO'd for 3 days straight. Even Katakuri fight didn't do that to Luffy.

It just so happens that whatever damage Doffy did was off-screened.

Luffy also was fighting in the coliseum; Fought his way up to Castle; Even let Spring dude beat on him for a while….*I hate these caveats*…Point being 1 vs 1 Luffy didn’t need Law to win. Luffy would resort to G4 earlier in the fight; He would have retreated until he was caught, endure Doflamingo’s attack, then finish him off with a KKG.

Fighting fodders don't matter.
Bellamy is again fodder. Maybe not worthless fodder, but still a low diff material for Luffy.

A nerfed Doffy was having an even fight with G4 Luffy for 20 mins (implied from the dialogues), or at the very least holding his own. If Luffy went to G4 in pure 1v1 against healthy Doffy, Doffy easily outlasts the time limit, and kills off Luffy when he runs out of G4.

Lucci’s best feat was the fist clash with G5 which threw both of them back. After that Lucci is just trying to keep up, he’s doesn’t and he gets No diff…Doflamingo isn’t a chump, but Lucci should be a tier or two above him.

Lucci Mid/High Diff Win.

Lucci probably wins.
Like I said, I wasn't trying to say anything about Doffy vs Lucci here.

I was just pointing out that Doffy is generally underrated due to how G4 Luffy vs Doffy was perceived.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Being a conquer he probably had slightly stronger Haki but otherwise there pretty even.

In luffys hakiclash with lucci we see lightning, so its safe to assume he has conquereror too.

 

[grey matter]

In luffys hakiclash with lucci we see lightning, so its safe to assume he has conquereror too.

Nah, lightning arcs appear when high amount of armament haki is used as well, not just conqueror's

Scabbards and Jinbe had lightning arcs from their haki too, and they are definitely no conquerors

 

[XXGenesis]

They did hurt G4 Luffy
This was Luffy's state after coming out of G4. Just running out of stamina won't do this, you could see that in later instances where Luffy's G4 ran out. He was just tired and couldn't use haki.

Spoiler

Sabo: you look like hell

Spoiler

Luffy after the fight, was so injured that he was KO'd for 3 days straight. Even Katakuri fight didn't do that to Luffy.

It just so happens that whatever damage Doffy did was off-screened.




Fighting fodders don't matter.
Bellamy is again fodder. Maybe not worthless fodder, but still a low diff material for Luffy.

A nerfed Doffy was having an even fight with G4 Luffy for 20 mins (implied from the dialogues), or at the very least holding his own. If Luffy went to G4 in pure 1v1 against healthy Doffy, Doffy easily outlasts the time limit, and kills off Luffy when he runs out of G4.



Lucci probably wins.
Like I said, I wasn't trying to say anything about Doffy vs Lucci here.

I was just pointing out that Doffy is generally underrated due to how G4 Luffy vs Doffy was perceived.

Well if I keep responding. It’ll throw the thread off. I disagree;

Doflamingo isn’t underrated.

I’ve never seen that on this forum or in the fandom in general.

He’s actually overrated.
Because of his DF abilities, his endurance & stamina.

The Thread is about Doffy Vs Lucci. So if we gonna go off track, it should lead back to the topic at hand.

Lucci takes Doffy in a Mid/High Diff fight. Doffy isn’t taking on Queen/Vista/Sanji. Many compare him to Jack/Cracker/Sulong Cat/Dog ..Which I still think edge him out. While I think Lucci can take these guys still.

 

[BlackTiger]

They did hurt G4 Luffy

You are making this up?

This was Luffy's state after coming out of G4. Just running out of stamina won't do this, you could see that in later instances where Luffy's G4 ran out. He was just tired and couldn't use haki.

Spoiler

This was also Luffy's state after he overused his haki against dragon Kaido

And we know dragon Kaido never hit Boundman even once. So the reason why Luffy was in that state in Dressrosa was because he overused his haki not because the damage he took from Doflamingo which never existed in the first place.

Luffy after the fight, was so injured that he was KO'd for 3 days straight. Even Katakuri fight didn't do that to Luffy.

Chopper was not in Dressrosa. He was in WCI to treat Luffy's injuries so Luffy recovered faster. Katakuri also recovered 1 day later since his fight against Luffy anyway so if Luffy was still injured after 3 days, it would make Katakuri the real winner since he needed 1 day to recover while Luffy needed 3 days to recover.

It just so happens that whatever damage Doffy did was off-screened.

Because those damage Doflamingo inflicted on Boundman never existed to begin with.

Reality is, Doflamingo did not deal any injuries to Boundman while Boundman still wrecked Doflamingo despite Doflamingo used awakening.

I was just pointing out that Doffy is generally underrated due to how G4 Luffy vs Doffy was perceived.

He is underrated because there is no basis for Doflamingo to be put below King or Marco except for Katakuri argument. Doflamingo is below Katakuri therefore, King and Marco is above Doflamingo too despite the lack of Coo to detect parasite or lack of Boundman physical strength to break free from parasite.

In SBS Oda also said Doflamingo is a dangerous opponent and he was glad Doflamingo was taken out earlier which shows nobody in the alliance (including Marco and current Zoro) except Luffy has a counter to his parasite.

 

[john ellis]

Awakened lucci is atleast on par with kata or king. Doffy is on par at best with cracker this is a stomp.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Lucci well over Doflamingo

 

[kkck]

Current luffy would probably defeat doflamingo with one or two attacks and probably not even need awakening. Luffy fought like a jackass but lucci still held his own for a decent bit, that's not something doflamingo could pull off nowadays. Luffys power now is simply worlds ahead of what doflamingo faced.

 

[BlackTiger]

Current luffy would probably defeat doflamingo with one or two attacks and probably not even need awakening. Luffy fought like a jackass but lucci still held his own for a decent bit, that's not something doflamingo could pull off nowadays. Luffys power now is simply worlds ahead of what doflamingo faced.

I find it hypocritical when someone like you wank people who can hold their own against top tier like Marco, Lucci while at the same time downplay Dressrosa Luffy who held his own against Fujitora just because that Luffy was fodder to Sweet Commanders.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 21, 2023, Original Post Date: Oct 21, 2023 ---

Current luffy would probably defeat doflamingo with one or two attacks and probably not even need awakening. Luffy fought like a jackass but lucci still held his own for a decent bit, that's not something doflamingo could pull off nowadays. Luffys power now is simply worlds ahead of what doflamingo faced.

I would argue that Dressrosa Luffy performance against Fujitora was much better than Lucci performance against Gear 5.

 

[Ricko]

For me they are equal. Currently in power Lucci is far above, but my meaning is in Oda Treatment.

Dofi is like Crocodile, a character that Oda like and will adapt his power to the situation.

In powerwise, see Dofli confrontation vs Kuzan, and other commander confrontation.
Even if in the tier he's behind someone like Cracker, he left an impression he could give a fight against the admiral.
Where Cracker or BB's commanders who should be stonger were trashed.

If Dofi go back in the game, he will have the Crocodile treatment and be at least at Lucci level, if not above.
This guy
- Trashed Law
- Have Royal Haki
- Got hax devil fruit
- Insane Charisma

There is no way he will stay in his actual tier.
Oda fight work more on emotion and visual impact, than real powerscaling.

 

[kkck]

Doflamingo screamed at kuzan "I don't want to fight you!" or something to that effect. If we consider recent admiral feats:

1.- Aramaki schooled the scabbard and yamato.
2.- Kuzan managed to freeze the BB pirates on his own.
3.- Kuzan and IIRC van auger assaulted WCI and walked out unscathed pretty much thanks to kuzan.
4.- Borsalino tied with luffy.

Oda can and probably will do whatever he wants with power levels but if the series had any consistency then any of the 3 calamities or sweet commanders would win against doflamingo with varying degrees of difficulty and the admirals would do to him what kuzan did to BB's executives.

 

[Ricko]

Like Pekom should OS Crocodile like he OS Karibou, but we all know it would not be the case anymore...

Like I said, powerscaling is not something blocked, potential and resolve have lot of influence in the fight.

Moria was a powerhouse, before loosing faith and turn weak.
Kaido was nearly one shot by Oden; and grow to be called the strongest creature in the world.

Kuzan even give a warning to Sakazuki about Doflamingo, and his potential danger.
http://fanfox.net/manga/one_piece/v70/c699/1.html#ipg9
An admiral never talk about a sweet commander with as much serious...

What I said, it's that he belong to the potential character category like Crocodile, Rob Lucy and maybe Katakuri, that evolve.
Because they are main enemies, badass and loved by fans.
Guys like Crackers or Jack will never change of status, and even worse will be used to show the growth of heroes.

 

[kkck]

I think its a stretch that kaido was nearly one shot by oden. By the looks of it kaido had plenty more fight in him but maybe oden would have had a chance to finish it before kaido could pull out all the stops were it not for the interference in the fight. Ultimately kaido didn't even use his hybrid form.

The danger doflamingo posed went well beyond his combat prowess. He had positioned himself in his ancestor's kingdom, maintained some still unexplained connection to the tenryubito (I wonder if oda will elaborate on this later) and was a major weapon supplier across the globe and within that perhaps kaido's greatest strategic ally. His defeat cut off kaido's smile supply and literally altered the course of wars across the grand line, if not the world. doflamingo had positioned himself as the single most important non yonko underworld figure with a wide web connections and influence everywhere. Though to me it looked like doflamingo did this ultimately because he just didn't have it in him to be pirate king. Doflamingo just doesn't warrant a yonko showing up to his doorstep to end him should he actually pose a threat. A yonko can delegate this to one or two executives and doflamingo would have the choice of running away or 110% getting brutally murdered as his crew is or was slaughtered. The series almost specifically depicts cracker as more powerful than doflamingo, unless you ignore the context and dialogue of when luffy and cracker fought.

 

[BlackTiger]

Doflamingo screamed at kuzan "I don't want to fight you!" or something to that effect. If we consider recent admiral feats:

1.- Aramaki schooled the scabbard and yamato.
2.- Kuzan managed to freeze the BB pirates on his own.
3.- Kuzan and IIRC van auger assaulted WCI and walked out unscathed pretty much thanks to kuzan.
4.- Borsalino tied with luffy.

Oda can and probably will do whatever he wants with power levels but if the series had any consistency then any of the 3 calamities or sweet commanders would win against doflamingo with varying degrees of difficulty and the admirals would do to him what kuzan did to BB's executives.

Doflamingo never screamed that. He had no reason to fight Aokiji. Negging is what happened to King and Queen. Ryokugyu negged them without using his sword. That's what a neg diff fight looks like. There's no portrayal for Jack or Queen to be above Doflamingo.

if the series had any consistency then any of the 3 calamities or sweet commanders would win against doflamingo

I did not know Jozu is weaker than Jack and Queen. Must be reading different manga then.

The series almost specifically depicts cracker as more powerful than doflamingo, unless you ignore the context and dialogue of when luffy and cracker fought.

Yeah that's Cracker's feat. You cannot give his portrayal to Jack or Queen. They need to prove they are above Dofalmingo first. Saying Jack is above Doflamingo because Cracker is portrayed above Doflamingo is called leeching. Jack can only leech on Cracker's feat to be portrayed above Doflamingo.

Jack is portrayed on par with Perospero. Doflamingo easily almost killed base Sanji while it took Queen several chapters to do so. Saying they are above Doflamingo because of Cracker is like saying Luffy and Zoro are weaker than Vergo because Sanji is weaker than Vergo too.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 21, 2023, Original Post Date: Oct 21, 2023 ---

Doflamingo screamed at kuzan "I don't want to fight you!" or something to that effect. If we consider recent admiral feats:

Wasn't Kaido screaming from his lung not wanting to fight Big Mom pirates? Is Big Mom Pirates>Beast Pirates now. Why don't you use the same energy?

This is what screaming looks like. Kaido begged his subordinates to stop Big Mom pirates crossing the waterfall because he did not want his crews to suffer a catastrophe defeat.

 

[john ellis]

@kkck how did kizaru tie, it was a clear high diff loss. Luffy didn’t use his strongest technique, kizaru didn’t really do any damage to luffy he just ran around and exhausted him

 

[kkck]

@kkck how did kizaru tie, it was a clear high diff loss. Luffy didn’t use his strongest technique, kizaru didn’t really do any damage to luffy he just ran around and exhausted him

Both of them were out of commission by the time the fight ended, neither walked away nor got what they wanted or needed from the outcome. Kizaru did run the clock on luffy but that is just good strategy.

 

[john ellis]

Both of them were out of commission by the time the fight ended, neither walked away nor got what they wanted or needed from the outcome. Kizaru did run the clock on luffy but that is just good strategy.

So luffy always wins then falls unconscious, that’s just always what happens I wouldn’t take it as a kizaru victory otherwise luffy hasn’t won be anyone. Luffy also isn’t at 100% he atleast used some energy vs seraphim and lucci. Like I’m strongly in the g5>kaido camp and the fact that the gauntlet wouldn’t change that l. But if g4 luffy beat kaido he certainly wouldn’t be able to do it without help. Kizaru needed atleast some help to wear luffy down a bit. Likr sure kizaru fought against sentamaru, but they’re clearly fodder for lucci, and lucci was pretty fodder to luffy. So sentamaru was low diff for kizaru. And luffy atleast went g4/g5 vs his opponents

 

[kkck]

So luffy always wins then falls unconscious, that’s just always what happens I wouldn’t take it as a kizaru victory otherwise luffy hasn’t won be anyone. Luffy also isn’t at 100% he atleast used some energy vs seraphim and lucci. Like I’m strongly in the g5>kaido camp and the fact that the gauntlet wouldn’t change that l. But if g4 luffy beat kaido he certainly wouldn’t be able to do it without help. Kizaru needed atleast some help to wear luffy down a bit. Likr sure kizaru fought against sentamaru, but they’re clearly fodder for lucci, and lucci was pretty fodder to luffy. So sentamaru was low diff for kizaru. And luffy atleast went g4/g5 vs his opponents

I'd frame this as this fight being a tie is not the same as luffy being stronger/weaker/equal to kizaru. Luffy probably is stronger than kizaru considering he used awakening against lucci and got kicked through and came back through the light dome. But at the moment luffy dealt a decisive blow on kizaru luffy ran out of juice and both are just sitting there while other folk plot around. Though you are right, plenty of luffy's fights are won by a hair so thin they could also be framed as ties. Except that in those his allies are still standing while his enemies aren't.

 

[john ellis]

I'd frame this as this fight being a tie is not the same as luffy being stronger/weaker/equal to kizaru. Luffy probably is stronger than kizaru considering he used awakening against lucci and got kicked through and came back through the light dome. But at the moment luffy dealt a decisive blow on kizaru luffy ran out of juice and both are just sitting there while other folk plot around. Though you are right, plenty of luffy's fights are won by a hair so thin they could also be framed as ties. Except that in those his allies are still standing while his enemies aren't.

That’s fair, I think kizaru is in the realm of yonko territory he probably loses to anyone actuallly yonko tier. I wonder if kuzan is actually yonko tier, I think kizaru was the weakest of the original trio. And he seemed to have a slight upper hand vs old garp. And old garp should reasonably still be comparable to young garp if oldbeard was still a yonko threat.