Discussion Shingeki no Kyojin: Before the Fall

[iamtanmay]

@Pixisuuu - It is Earth. Remember when Hanje named the two Titans ? She talks about the Scottish legend of Sawney Bean, hisotrical cannibal cult leader. Its a real thing. Obviously an alternate Earth. We don't have Giants here.

99% of characters and places are German, other than 1 Pole (Rika), 1 Russian ??(Ivan), 1 Japanese(Mikasa). Everyone else is German.The series' castles, forts and towns are medieval European.

The evidence - geographic, historic and ethnic points to an alternate 18th -19th century Germany, instead of a post-apocalypse future. There is 0 evidence for what you suggest. Your idea is too fantastic. The author has been ridiculously detail oriented. I doubt he worked this hard to just throw it away in the end.

As for the Alps.

The Alps on the German border are inside Sina. The Italian alps are inside Maria. Take a look at this map - http://media.tumblr.com/a73021d194d24688d0ebc1e431e7006b/tumblr_inline_mrc6q4aJ6I1qz4rgp.png

You lived here, you can understand from the map how far the places are. You won't run into the alps if you go horse riding for a few days. They don't have cars like us.

We havent seen the *inside* of Sina. Annie was in Stohess, which is outside of Sina itself. To see the Alps, you would have to travel into Sina.

To give you an idea of the distance - the center ? That is 250 km away from where Annie was ! Keep in mind we mostly see border towns - Trost, Shinganshina, Karanesk, Stohess - with a population of ~10,000. Even with survey scouts, we see at most a half day's worth of travelling by horse from these towns. Its a tiny amount of distance compared to thel area inside the walls.

Thats why the spin off novels are so important. We see the geography just outside Maria (Italy), which is very different from the territory outside Rose (Austria). We would normally never see that.

It seems in the latest chapter that Erwin is presented to the king. If this is the real center, then we are 500 km away from where the story began in Shinganshina !

 

[PIXISSUUU]

When I lived there I climbed the tallest mountain in Germany known as the Zugspitze. That mountain would be on the south side of Wall Sina according to your map. I lived roughly in the center of this map in Mainz and Heidelberg. What I can tell you is that in terms of elevation, the Zugspitze is much higher than the center of this map where I lived. Also, the Swiss and Italian alps would also be between Sina and Rose. According to Kishi himself, the center of the land in the walls is higher than the outer areas, and all the rivers flow downwards from the center. From what I can see, this is not the geography of Central Europe at all, so I concluded that this cannot be the same Germany I lived in.

Spoiler

In my travels to central Italy, I can tell you it is dryer and dustier than Germany, but nothing looks like the apocalyptic wasteland of Before the Fall. Even in the summer would there be bushes and trees. I think the argument about seasons is irrelevant also because we got to see the apocalyptic outside area twice. Once when Charle's family looks over the wall, and second when the Survey Corps leaves. Both times the landscape is completely barren. I do agree that the spinoff novels are important. Especially the chapters in A Choice With No Regrets when we see Levi and Co leaving Wall Maria (not Rose, Maria) to be greeted by trees and grass. This tells me something changed since the time of Before the Fall and ACWNR (or there was some disconnect between Kishi and the BtF mangaka) That's my conclusion. I think it seems reasonable.

Another factoid to consider is that the people within the walls, not even those living in Shiganshina, have any concept of the ocean's existence. Your map shows the walls intersecting with the Adriatic and North Seas. Sure the walls aren't perfect circles, but if the walls truly surrounded Germany, they'd have been built awfully close to the oceans. You would probably be able to see the ocean standing on top of Wall Maria in some parts. If the walls were where you say they are, the seawater would still flow into Hamburg (yes I've been there), and Eren wouldn't be surprised to hear about salt water. The Rakago village arc shows us what the lands between Sina and Rose are like. We don't encounter any Alps. Similarly, when Erwin and Co. head for Shiganshina from Karanese, they don't bring any crampons for climbing mountains.

You're right that they reference Sawney Bean. That only tells us for certain that the events in SnK happen after the 16th century. It doesn't guarantee that what's happening is in the 18th century instead of the 180th century. Nor does it mean that the entire events within the walls isn't just some experiment being conducted on a colonized planet 2000 years from now, where the land has been geoengineered to provide a continent with a high mountain in the center which flows water down in all directions (such geography is pretty fantastical in my opinion given what we know about plate tectonics, geology, and land formation). I agree my ideas are pretty fantastical, but its also fantastical to believe that people in the 18th century could somehow develop the technology to make titans, or build seamless walls around Germany. Neither is proven or disproven at this point, but given the clues so far (see below) I prefer to think its the distant future. I also think Kishi was giving us a big clue when he named the first anime episode "To You, in 2000 Years." I admit all of this is theory and nothing is confirmed, but don't dismiss an idea just because its "fantastical."

What I'll say here is that I've lived many years in Central Germany and traveled to almost all the places shown in AoT IF we assumed that the walls surrounded Germany. I've seen these places with my own eyes, and say that the idea that AoT takes place in a parallel Germany with the same geography doesn't make sense.

Here's one factoid that will blow your mind too. Hanji (Angie, who are we kidding!) also named pet titans after Albert (for Albert Fish 1870 - 1936) and Chikachiro (for Andrei Romanovich Chikatilo 1936 - 1994!). Holy moly, when I first read that, it BLEW MY MIND. This means that Hange had to have some cultural tradition that was able to hand down stories of someone who died in 1994! So this means all we can say for certain that AoT happens sometime AFTER 1994. I agree that the author has been very detail oriented. He's given us some good clues if we pay attention. I think your conclusion is that he is telling a straight forward story (walls were built around a parrallel Germany with the same geography in the 1700s to 1800s, and thats why everyone is German and builds cities like Germans). My opinion is that the author gave us these clues to tell us there is something far more complex going on. Its just an opinion though, and everyone is entitled to thiers.

To be honest, I would love to imagine Eren and the Survey Corps flying around the cities I used to live in. I'd feel very connected to this story if I were German and lived in Germany because it looks so much like Germany and all the characters have German names. However just because there are some superficial similarities between the people and the cities in AoT with Deutschland, that doesn't mean that the straight forward answer is the best answer. Just my two cents.

 

[hakuthehedgehog]

Not sure if already posted, but chapter 8 is translated : http://www.onemanga.me/shingeki_no_kyojin_before_the_fall/8

 

[TheOwl]

Read the new chapter. Not very exciting, I must admit, but I really like the way they are portraying the Survey Corps' desperate fight against a Titan without using the 3DMG. Though, if Isayama was the writer the Survey Corps would have already been surrounded by Titans.

 

[iamtanmay]

Ryō Suzukaze wrote this, not the author of the current manga Satoshi Shiki. This manga is just covering the Light Novel that was already written some time back. Satoshi is basically doing the storyboards. The story itself has been written long back. So if you want to spoil the manga for yourself you can just read the translation of the Light Novel.

But you can't blame the mangaka. After all, he didn't write the story.

 

[mattiaildivino]

Ladies and gentlemen, hello! I wonder whether this spin-off hasn't been being translated for months, notwithstanding 3 more chapters have been published in the meantime, whose spoilers are available: http://www.onemanga.me/shingeki_no_kyojin_before_the_fall/ . Furthermore, the end of the other spin-off (Levi's one) should have focused attention (and Manga Editors) on "Before the fall". Anyone found these 3 translated?

 

[Solace Kane]

did they discontinue translating these on mangapanda?...

 

[JSnow81]

It never really occurred To me that SNK could be taking place on earth or around our time. I always just figured it was in its own universe or mybe in the future, but i guess it could be earth. I like the info from the translations on the cover, but doesn't it say most ppl came from sea to the " new world"? How does that fit into the "SNK earth theory"? If it were Germany the majority of the ppl wouldn't be traveling by sea, and ppl have been living in and around Germany since humanity was new not the other way around lol

---------- Post added at 05:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:34 AM ----------

Any updates on when we'll get the new translations?

 

[PIXISSUUU]

It never really occurred To me that SNK could be taking place on earth or around our time. I always just figured it was in its own universe or mybe in the future, but i guess it could be earth. I like the info from the translations on the cover, but doesn't it say most ppl came from sea to the " new world"? How does that fit into the "SNK earth theory"? If it were Germany the majority of the ppl wouldn't be traveling by sea, and ppl have been living in and around Germany since humanity was new not the other way around lol

---------- Post added at 05:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:34 AM ----------

Any updates on when we'll get the new translations?

Another thing that occurs to me is that there is no mention of people already living in the walls when humanity arrives (if that even happened). That would mean all these german speakers would have needed to migrate FROM Germany to "somewhere else." Its possible there was no migration and this history is just a result of memory manipulation.

 

[Laif]

I don't know if it's been mentioned yet but you can find chapter 10 ready to read.

 

[mattiaildivino]

http://www.mangamap.com/Attack_on_Titan_Before_the_Fall3/ Something new. Furthermore, they are looking for someone who can help translating this spin-off. Come on, guys, someone who knows Japanese!

 

[ufnovaes]

You can find raws of Ch 16 and 17 here:
http://raw.senmanga.com/Shingeki-no-Kyojin-Before-The-Fall/016/
http://raw.senmanga.com/Shingeki-no-Kyojin-Before-The-Fall/017/

Really hoping for some translation...

Does anyone else noticed there's is a lot more of the aberrant types in this?
Is it considered canon?

17 looks to be a pretty interesting chapter... I'm dying to know what they are saying...

Spoiler

They seem to be experimenting on a Titan for the first time.

 

[POW]

It just needs a translation.... seriously I thought there was delay or something??

I figured this would have been knocked out quick considering how popular this show/manga is.

 

[mattiaildivino]

From Kodansha's site: cover and first chapter (n°11) of vol.4: HERE
and first chapter (n°14) of vol.5: HERE
Notice they dropped the translation after vol.3, maybe they are waiting to scan the tankobon . In italy vol. 4 came out a month ago, when I'll read it I'll tell you what's inside .
PS: is it confirmed the 5th is the last one? whereas the novels are only made of 3 volumes?

 

[DarkOne]

Shingeki no Kryjin's Before the Fall.

Hmm. I've started on this manga once it came out last year.

But then forgotten all bout it.

I've managed to catch up to chapter 11.

Is there more chapters to this series? if so, Where can I find them?

Please & Thank You.

 

[Eigengrau]

Shingeki no Kryjin's Before the Fall.

Hmm. I've started on this manga once it came out last year.

But then forgotten all bout it.

I've managed to catch up to chapter 11.

Is there more chapters to this series? if so, Where can I find them?

Please & Thank You.

There are, but it seems everyone dropped the translation...
There's about 21 now I guess, but not translated.

Here you go, it's still something I guess:

Spoiler

http://raw.senmanga.com/Shingeki-no-Kyojin-Before-The-Fall/011/

 

[DarkOne]

There are, but it seems everyone dropped the translation...
There's about 21 now I guess, but not translated.

Here you go, it's still something I guess:

Spoiler

http://raw.senmanga.com/Shingeki-no-Kyojin-Before-The-Fall/011/

Thank You, Eigengrau. Yes, I been wondering why I havn't seen it notice often.

 

[ufnovaes]

It is just me or half of the titans on Before the Fall looks like a deviant or a Shifter?

 

[Haze]

It isn't just you lol.I could've sworn that last titan to have chased them outside the wall was a shifter. Unless of course it was a bodybuilder who got transformed into a Titan but retained his armor-less armor Titan like physique,lol. He didn't seem to have any skin on him either, but that's hard to say from the black and white print.
What makes me assume he actually was a shifter though was the fact that he was rather playing around with the SC soldiers, kicking them into the air and such, rather than downright eating them. Not sure if I have seen a deviant's traits waver that far. This guy actually reminded me of Annie kicking that soldier into the air,in all honesty.

 

[Eigengrau]

I know what you guys mean, but honestly I don't think that any "shifters" are featured in this story. I know this happens/happened a long time ago and probably doesn't have a direct impact in the current story, but from what I recall Eren was the first known "person who can turn into a titan". Had something of the sort happened before SnK, I think it would be known by now.

Granted, this doesn't mean that there weren't shifters already at that time (after all, the Ape Titan had never heard/seen the 3dmg before, so it's perfectly plausible), maybe they just couldn't/wouldn't reveal themselves yet.

But yeah, for example, when I first saw the end of chapter 11, I was like sheeeeet what the fuuuu-

What really bothers me though, is that we have all these

- Before the Fall;
- the story on how the 3Dmg was created;
- Aftermath Shiganshina (serialization has started/will start soon, about what happened after the breach at the start of the series)

and maybe others that I'm forgetting, and yet we still don't know the actual, full story. I'm saying this because all of those come from books that were already published, their manga adapation isn't the "first" thing that's been made, so I'm really bothered by the fact that I can't find any summaries or something :/.

Also, if the other guys were smart, they should be adapting this into OVAs inbetween seasons, as opposed to, you know, making other OVAs and other content that brings absolutely nothing to the actual story...

Well, they did that with "A Choice with no Regrets", so maybe Before The Fall will be getting the same treatment, hopefully(?).