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Special Move Technique vs. Technique

Ninomiya

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I do not recall any instance of that happening when the zone was out, might be wrong though.
Sanada with Rin no?
 

Kaoz

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Fuji Shusuke

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Tezuka did manage to pull in Rai with TZ eventually. I think that may be enough to say Tezuka Zone > COOL Drive?
 

LetalHawk

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Tezuka did manage to pull in Rai with TZ eventually. I think that may be enough to say Tezuka Zone > COOL Drive?
Rai is faster and has more spin, is harder to catch and return. TZ>Cool Drive
 

Phantron

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TZone doesn't affect the baseline/net axis. Tezuka used ZSD against Kabaji to beat his own TZone, and Kabaji responded by using ZSD too. If TZone can pull the ball on the baseline/net axis it wouldn't make sense to use this against TZone because you'd just hit the ZSD back before it drops if you can move the ball in that axis. In fact that'd mean drop shots in general should stop TZone because even if you can't do the 'roll on the ground' effect, there's no way the first bounce after a dropshot would reach the baseline so Tezuka would have to leave the baseline even on a normal dropshot. Now of course if you did a weak dropshot that'd be countered easily by running up to the net but if you just want to get rid of TZone, it's actually pretty easy, though you'd almost certainly just lose a point immediately after.

We'll ignore the fact that it seems to require different spin to move the ball to right as opposed to left, and let's just say TZone uses an 'attractive' spin while TPhantom uses a 'replusive' spin that causes the ball to unconditionally go toward/away from where Tezuka is.

Even if you give that to Tezuka, his choice of moves still makes no sense. In the diagram it shows that TZone only has to pull the ball enough from baseline to Tezuka in middle + length of the racket, while TPhantom requires more spin because it has to push the ball from middle all the way to out of bounds. But, this seems to imply the attractive/replusive spin requires the same amount of energy if they moved the ball distance (TPhantom uses more, because you got to move the ball a further distance).

Here's the problem: outside of Atobe nobody can see when TZone/TPhantom is activated because nobody's eyes is that good to see how the ball is spinning. That is, to Tezuka's opponent, it is not clear to him whether the ball has the repulsive, attractive, or something else. In light of this you'd have to hit the ball toward the middle every single time because if you hit it even slightly to the left/right then it only takes TZone level of repulsive spin to move it out of bounds, which Tezuka can keep up forever. Of course, if you always hit it toward the middle then Tezuka certainly has no problem returning any shots hit toward the middle (the point of TZone is to make you hit toward the middle).

Finally of course Rin would beat TZone but it's pointless because Rin is a trivial shot to return, while the point of TZone is to get an easy shot to return. TZone can be maintained effectively forever for Tezuka, so using Rin just gives Tezuka unlimited chances to try to score by rallying.
 

Ninomiya

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Rai is faster and has more spin, is harder to catch and return. TZ>Cool Drive
We don't know about more spin.
But we know about it having a random spin.
 

LetalHawk

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We don't know about more spin.
But we know about it having a random spin.
Yes, it has an unpredictable path, so far, only Yukimura and Tezuka have been able to catch up and hit the shot, only Yukimura was able to return it.

But yeah, definitely harder to return than Cool Drive.
 

Fuji Shusuke

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I think it's safe to end COOL Drive vs TZ with TZ winning.

I'd personally prefer to see Saiki Kanpatsu no Kiwami vs. World of Ice/Atobe Kingdom.
Ok then, Chitose's Saiki Kanpatsu no Kiwami vs. Atobe's World of Ice.
 

Ninomiya

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Ok then, Chitose's Saiki Kanpatsu no Kiwami vs. Atobe's World of Ice.
WoI.

WoI can hit to where the opponent shouldn't be able to reach. With no TZ or anything involved, WoI should win overall.
 

Fuji Shusuke

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Hold on, what if Chitose starts moving towards the next ball before Atobe's hit it? You can argue that Atobe will hit to a new blind spot but what if he runs in another direction all of a sudden? Then the blind spot has changed.
 

Hardy

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Hold on, what if Chitose starts moving towards the next ball before Atobe's hit it? You can argue that Atobe will hit to a new blind spot but what if he runs in another direction all of a sudden? Then the blind spot has changed.
...and then Atobe hits the ball to the new blind spot?
 

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If there's no feedback loop then obviously WoI wins every time, Saiki would just show you a future where WoI scores off you every single time.

For the sake of argument we'll assume Chitose only has one blind spot too, so in this case he could use Saiki to see where WoI will hit to, deduce that is his own blind spot and thus immediately do something to shift your position to remove the blind spot. However WoI is also an adapative ability. Whatever you do to remove your first blind spot just opens up a blind spot elsewhere (assuming Chitose cannot pull the 'no blindspot' trick that Irie did) so you'll just hit to the new blindspot you see. At this point you'll run into an infinite loop since you can then use Saiki to predict where the new blind spot is and then attempt to neutralize it, but this opens a different blind spot.

So in conclusion the Saiki user would have no idea which of the infinitely many outcome is what's supposed to happen and is almost certainly going to guess wrong, because each time you use Saiki to predict the future, that immediately changes the future as your blind spot is different and the WoI user is always just going to hit the ball to whatever blind spot he sees.
 

Ninomiya

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For the sake of argument we'll assume Chitose only has one blind spot too, so in this case he could use Saiki to see where WoI will hit to,
If Ryoma had loads of blind spots, so will Chitose.
 

Phantron

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If Ryoma had loads of blind spots, so will Chitose.
Well that just makes the infinite possibilitities you can see even more infinite. It doesn't actually change the outcome, though that means each time you see Saiki the number of possible futures goes up by a factor equal to the number of blind spots you have.
 

BenLubre

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_ 1. Pinnacle of Hard-Work VS Kagero-Zutsumi
- 1'. Lightning VS Kagero-Zutsumi
- 1''. Glowing-Ball VS Kagero-Zutsumi

...
_ 2. Tezuka-Zone VS Ho'o-Gaeshi
_ 2'. Tezuka-Zone VS Zero-Shiki Drop-Shot =
- The 1st-Player uses Tezuka-Zone, and the 2nd-Player uses a Zero-Shiki Drop-Shot; And the Ball touches the Ground and rolls back.
- BUT, then it jumps towards the 1st-Player who was using the Tezuka-Zone.
- 2''. Tezuka-Zone VS Spinless-Ball

...
_ 3. Tezuka-Phantom VS Ho'o-Gaeshi
- 3'. Tezuka-Phantom VS Kagero-Zutsumi
- 3''. Tezuka-Phantom VS Spinless-Ball
- 3'''. Tezuka-Phantom VS Cool-Drive

...
_ 4. Atobe Ice-World VS Hecatoncheires no Monban
- 4'. Atobe Ice-World VS Eyes-Closed
- 4''. Atobe Ice-World VS Tezuka-Phantom

...
_ 5. Cool-Drive VS Kagero-Zutsumi
- 5'. Cool-Drive VS Tezuka-Zone
- 5''. Cool-Drive VS Tezuka-Phantom

...
_ 6. Atobe-Kingdom VS Hecatoncheires no Monban
- 6'. Atobe-Kingdom VS Tezuka-Zone
- 6''. Atobe-Kingdom VS Tezuka-Phantom
- 6'''. Atobe-Kingdom VS Eyes-Closed
- 6''''. Atobe-Kingdom VS Pinnacle of Perfection

...
_ 7. Atobe-Dimention VS Pinnacle of Hard-Work
- 7'. Atobe-Dimention VS Tezuka-Phantom
- 7''. Atobe-Dimention VS Tezuka-Zone
- 7'''. Atobe-Dimention VS Kagero-Zutsumi
 
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