Special Move Techniques Discussion

[Kaoz]

I strongly believe so. Since Tokugawa was able to take a notable lead once he brought out Black Hole.

Obviously he's going to take a lead if he can stop all of Byoudouin's attacks, it's not like he was notably inferior before Byoudouin brought out Pirate. Can you at least construct a theory how the return is special?

 

[Ninomiya]

Obviously he's going to take a lead if he can stop all of Byoudouin's attacks, it's not like he was notably inferior before Byoudouin brought out Pirate. Can you at least construct a theory how the return is special?

Unless you're implying that Byoudouin's defense magically collapsed all of a sudden I don't see why Tokugawa would be taking points at a rapid rate unless his returns weren't basic. It's pretty simple.
Unless Byoudouin's ability to defend and engage in high level rallies suddenly collapsed.

 

[Kaoz]

Unless you're implying that Byoudouin's defense magically collapsed all of a sudden I don't see why Tokugawa would be taking points at a rapid rate unless his returns weren't basic. It's pretty simple.
Unless Byoudouin's ability to defend and engage in high level rallies suddenly collapsed.

We haven't seen most of the rallies, so we don't know how many shots Byoudouin returned before Tokugawa got the point. In fact, the only rally we do get to see after Tokugawa starts using Black Hole is one in which Byoudouin returns that ball multiple times. Also, I reckon it's a lot easier to score when the ball literally stopped in one place and you can aim and take a full swing etc., so you can get the upper hand from that without needing any fancy special shots.

 

[Ninomiya]

We haven't seen most of the rallies, so we don't know how many shots Byoudouin returned before Tokugawa got the point. In fact, the only rally we do get to see after Tokugawa starts using Black Hole is one in which Byoudouin returns that ball multiple times. Also, I reckon it's a lot easier to score when the ball literally stopped in one place and you can aim and take a full swing etc., so you can get the upper hand from that without needing any fancy special shots.

Yeah I re-read the chapter, I'm changing my view that instead of the shot being special itself, its better to say that what's special about the shot is the time and space that the user is given to hit the shot wherever he wants.
Although, with a mere 4.5 in Strength & Tech, I still expect Byoudouin to hit back whatever normal shot Tokugawa hits back.
I mean, Byoudouin must have at least 7 in Tech or something. Then again, we don't know Byoudouin's Speed stat...

 

[Kaoz]

Byoudouin's speed is implied to be mediocre. That said, I think Tokugawa still got a stat boost from Asura no Shindou during that time? So his power etc. were probably above 4.5.

 

[Ninomiya]

Byoudouin's speed is implied to be mediocre. That said, I think Tokugawa still got a stat boost from Asura no Shindou during that time? So his power etc. were probably above 4.5.

Didn't Byoudouin not activate that Asura thing too? I was assuming that once we saw a gotdamn Pirate on the court arrive out of nowhere that Byoudouin must have got some kind of stat life which should result in his Speed stat becoming mediocre for G10 level as opposed to just being mediocre.

 

[Kaoz]

Well, the Pirate seems to be similar to Kijin, and Oni's profile says that that one's power and mental, so I don't think it does anything for Byoudouin's speed.

 

[Ninomiya]

Well, the Pirate seems to be similar to Kijin, and Oni's profile says that that one's power and mental, so I don't think it does anything for Byoudouin's speed.

Noted.
Then again since Byoudouin is G10, there must be some explanation or a note from Konomi mentioning he can make up for his Speed or that at least his Speed never holds him back due to his tennis style, just like what we got for Yagyuu Hiroshi?

 

[Kaoz]

Then again since Byoudouin is G10, there must be some explanation or a note from Konomi mentioning he can make up for his Speed or that at least his Speed never holds him back due to his tennis style, just like what we got for Yagyuu Hiroshi?

The best comparison might be Irie's stamina - it's low but for some unknown reason not a significant issue.

 

[Kaoz]

So regarding what Atobe did at the end of the 9/10 match, combining Atobe Kingdom and Koori no Sekai - do you think that was a new, yet to be named special move that we will see more frequently in the future? Or do you believe it was a one-time thing?

 

[-Ken-]

I think one time thing. I always thought Atobe Kingdom is the upgrade version of World of Ice.

 

[Kaoz]

I think one time thing. I always thought Atobe Kingdom is the upgrade version of World of Ice.

Well, it kinda is. But the blind spots they can detect are different I believe. From what I understand, the blind spots found by KnS cannot be reacted to because you can't see the spot the ball is going to land in (so Irie could counter it with his wide field of vision) whereas AK searches for spots that you simply cannot physically reach. So the combined form is probably hitting the ball to a spot you can neither reach nor see if that makes sense.

And well, there must be a bit more to it than a simple upgrade because otherwise there was really no reason why Atobe used both of them rather than only AK on that last point.

---------- Post added at 10:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 AM ----------

Oh also, I keep forgetting this, but Sai told me that in volume 13, we get a clearer shot of Phoenix of Egypt. I don't have the page on me right now, but apparently it's a bit more zoomed out and you can see a phoenix shape heading towards Tokugawa. Basically Phoenix of Egypt seems to be Hoshi Hanabi, except it doesn't require a cord ball and aims straight at the opponent's head.

 

[-Ken-]

Well, it's not like it's going to find any new spot, but I can see it narrow down the spot down. Also, I think because the shot need to overlap (both cannot reach+cannot see) it should narrow its use even more.

And either way, it just seem pretty useless. Users on Mouri level seem to have no trouble handling World of Ice (not too sure on this though). It seem to be mainly AK they have problem returning.

Really, I think Atobe just use that to see as many possible places he can hit the ball to as much as possible, to open his options up. I think it's hardly in doubles to use tech like AK or World of Ice since it's useless unless that both opponents have the same blind spot. Even if one can't return the ball, the other can simply do it. Atobe probably use it to see if there's anywhere that, say, AK Mouri and World if Ice Ochi, or something along that line.

 

[Kaoz]

So Sai and I were wondering why Tezuka started out with Hyakuren in his match against Volk instead of going TnK straight away. One theory Sai thought up is that by using Hyakuren, it's possible to hit Tezuka Phantom without putting a great burden on the arm.

The idea is that, first of all, the current Tezuka wouldn't put his arm on the line any more, much less so in a practice match. Then it could be possible to use Hyakuren's doubled return to essentially use the opponent's spin in order to create at least a large part of the spin required to hit Phantom. The weakness of this combination could be that it's not useable if the opponent uses shots with extremely little spin.

 

[jimtors]

Guys, where did you get to read those advanced chapters? How come in the website it's only showing chapters till where Ryoma is against the American squad?

Sorry kinda noob at finding scans.

 

[Kaoz]

There are no English scans of those chapters yet, we know what's going on from the Japanese and Chinese ones.

 

[Kaoz]

So how do you guys feel about Bullfighting of Spain? For reference.

It's hard to tell what it does exactly, but going by the middle panel and what Tokugawa says in the last panel, I feel like it might be a brute force shot, like bulls charging at you. Thoughts?

 

[Ganonslayer101]

Given it's Blurriness it could be the force of a multi-ball strike like most of Byoudin's shots combined with pure power so either the power is multiplied or against normal payers the blurred shot makes it hard for the opponent to know exactly where to strike the shot to lessen the burden of handling the power shot. I expect the blurriness has more meaning than just violent shaking ball because besides Destruction, all of Byoudin's shots are themed around the Multi-Ball Strike.

 

[Kaoz]

Phoenix of Egypt is a single ball shot. For the blur, I've been wondering myself if it's actually a blur ball or if it just represents the bull theme somehow (e.g. multiple bulls) since you can't see it any more in the bottom panel.

 

[Ganonslayer101]

I forgot about Phoenix. And if it is mostly a power shot than that would make since as a call back to Sanda's Match with Tezuka. Sanada attempted to break the impenetrable defense of the Zone and Phantom wiith the Head on Attacks of Ka and Rai, so it isn't out of the question to assume Byoudin thot he could break through Black Hole with a Head-On Power shot, though it does raise the question of Why Byoudin, as well versed in techniques that he is, thought he could out power the only defensive move better than Halt Destruct Nothingness that we've seen so far. Maybe Black Hole has a hidden weakness we don't know about. As for Bull Fighting of the Spanish I would still say Bull Fighting has to be more than just power because why use it instead of destruction if he just wanted power, so my idea that it has to involve that blur effect simply because it gives the shot a sense of uniqueness compared to Destruction.