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Theory The Red Line is hollow

RaisinRisin

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I suppose since the Lunarians can fly, the Red Line is not a burden like for any other race.
Do we know they can fly? I only remember King flying as a pteranodon. (Maybe I need to see his flashback again with the escape from Punk Hazard.) It would make sense if Lunarians' wings weren't vestigial like with the Sky Islanders we saw before. Maybe they were capable of travelling between Earth and Moon.
 

Fox666

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Do we know they can fly? I only remember King flying as a pteranodon. (Maybe I need to see his flashback again with the escape from Punk Hazard.) It would make sense if Lunarians' wings weren't vestigial like with the Sky Islanders we saw before. Maybe they were capable of travelling between Earth and Moon.
Yes, King can fly in his regular form:

 

DeadlyBeast

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I could see something the size of a normal island being habitable inside of it somewhere. Heck it could even be where Raftel is but on the end of the GL where the entrance can not only be found via the RP but also can't be opened without the information on them. However I think it has to be limited to a location like this and the entire red line being hollow would be too much. Either way it's still a pretty big stretch at this point in the story and there are no good hints/forshadowing in the manga yet. But Oda could introduce it late in the game like Nika and retroactively make it part of the world.
 

Fox666

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I could see something the size of a normal island being habitable inside of it somewhere. Heck it could even be where Raftel is but on the end of the GL where the entrance can not only be found via the RP but also can't be opened without the information on them. However I think it has to be limited to a location like this and the entire red line being hollow would be too much. Either way it's still a pretty big stretch at this point in the story and there are no good hints/forshadowing in the manga yet. But Oda could introduce it late in the game like Nika and retroactively make it part of the world.
There are some hints.

The idea is that the One Piece is something so incredible it will "turn the world upside down". What else is of this scale?
 

RaisinRisin

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There are some hints.

The idea is that the One Piece is something so incredible it will "turn the world upside down". What else is of this scale?
I'm open to it being hollow, but I've also thought for a long time that All Blue was at a deep level below the known seas. Wano was the first possible hint I've seen about that aside from Reverse Mountain. Heck, both could even be true.
 

Fox666

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I'm open to it being hollow, but I've also thought for a long time that All Blue was at a deep level below the known seas. Wano was the first possible hint I've seen about that aside from Reverse Mountain. Heck, both could even be true.
The All Blue is said to be a sea which ingredients from the 4 seas could be found.

For some reason, the 4 seas are not truly connected through Fish-Man Island. Is it just a matter of sea currents?
 

DeadlyBeast

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There are some hints.
What are the hints that directly point to a hollow Red Line with people living in it? I don't recall seeing this in the manga but if you have some definitely interested in seeing them.

The idea is that the One Piece is something so incredible it will "turn the world upside down". What else is of this scale?
If the only criteria is it has to be big, we can literally make up anything of this scale or bigger. Lemme give it a try:

Since we know there are moon people and pirates (Enel's cover story) why not just claim there is a larger population of people on other planets throughout the solar system/galaxy (or whatever large scale we want) controlled by a large empire who have emissaries ruling each planet (the AK in the case of the OP earth). The planet of the OP world and the WG is a defector that took control from the people who ruled the planet, the AK. However, the WG and Imu are secretly pretending to be the AK so the larger empire thinks everything is going normal on the planet. The right person finding OP (Luffy in this case) will actually activate a signal to the Emperor of this multi-planet empire that there is something wrong here. As a result, this will trigger a multi-planet war the likes of which we have never seen.

I just made up the above and it is of much bigger scale than a hollow Red Line. And finding out there is a larger power than the WG controlling many planets would "turn the world upside down". Now does it make it likely that any of this is true? No. So for me to give more credibility to the hollow Red Line theory I'd need something in the manga that directly hints towards it. Otherwise its just an out there idea, one of dozens any of us can just make up and connect to the manga.
 

Fox666

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What are the hints that directly point to a hollow Red Line with people living in it? I don't recall seeing this in the manga but if you have some definitely interested in seeing them.
I already mentioned a few in this thread.

- The Sunlight Tree Eve grew inside the Red Line. Also it absorbs sunlight and oxygen from the surface and sends to Fish-Man island. But despite being over 10,000 meters tall, the top is nowhere to be seen. If the top of the tree was also inside the Red Line, it means there's sunlight and oxygen inside the Red Line.

- The walls of Wano mirrors the Red Line in many ways. In the Japanese version, Big Mom said there one or part of One Piece in Wano. But Wano is not just a massive wall, there's a country inside of it.

- When the Roger Pirates arrived on Laugh Tale and found the One Piece, they were sitting on a circle. Where was the One Piece? Maybe they were inside of it?

If the only criteria is it has to be big, we can literally make up anything of this scale or bigger. Lemme give it a try:

Since we know there are moon people and pirates (Enel's cover story) why not just claim there is a larger population of people on other planets throughout the solar system/galaxy (or whatever large scale we want) controlled by a large empire who have emissaries ruling each planet (the AK in the case of the OP earth). The planet of the OP world and the WG is a defector that took control from the people who ruled the planet, the AK. However, the WG and Imu are secretly pretending to be the AK so the larger empire thinks everything is going normal on the planet. The right person finding OP (Luffy in this case) will actually activate a signal to the Emperor of this multi-planet empire that there is something wrong here. As a result, this will trigger a multi-planet war the likes of which we have never seen.

I just made up the above and it is of much bigger scale than a hollow Red Line. And finding out there is a larger power than the WG controlling many planets would "turn the world upside down". Now does it make it likely that any of this is true? No. So for me to give more credibility to the hollow Red Line theory I'd need something in the manga that directly hints towards it. Otherwise its just an out there idea, one of dozens any of us can just make up and connect to the manga.
Ok, that does have the scale. But I don't think it connects with the rest of the story.

The hollow Red Line theory would answer many mysteries, just like the theory about the destruction of the Red Line.
 

RaisinRisin

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The All Blue is said to be a sea which ingredients from the 4 seas could be found.

For some reason, the 4 seas are not truly connected through Fish-Man Island. Is it just a matter of sea currents?
I forgot Water 7 is also another place that could be a hint. If I'm right, what Water 7 and Wano suggest to us is that there may be more than just two places in the world that were countries rebuilt on top of a country. There could be a lot more lands out there like this. If the world was indeed destroyed and rebuilt, then there could be ruins of a whole prior world buried under the current one. If so, it will have long since sunk into the original series of bodies of water that filled the planet in a normal way (like on our real-world Earth) instead of having the bizarre subdivisions of the Grand Line and the Red Line. That more realistic set of waterways and oceans is All Blue. It connects all the known surface seas because those waters flow into and out of All Blue at places like Reverse Mountain. So yeah, sea currents are definitely involved (right now Reverse Mountain is the best possible clue of that).
 

Fox666

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I forgot Water 7 is also another place that could be a hint. If I'm right, what Water 7 and Wano suggest to us is that there may be more than just two places in the world that were countries rebuilt on top of a country. There could be a lot more lands out there like this. If the world was indeed destroyed and rebuilt, then there could be ruins of a whole prior world buried under the current one. If so, it will have long since sunk into the original series of bodies of water that filled the planet in a normal way (like on our real-world Earth) instead of having the bizarre subdivisions of the Grand Line and the Red Line. That more realistic set of waterways and oceans is All Blue. It connects all the known surface seas because those waters flow into and out of All Blue at places like Reverse Mountain. So yeah, sea currents are definitely involved (right now Reverse Mountain is the best possible clue of that).
Morj posted a theory about the One Piece being an enormous continent submerged, since there are many hints of the sea level rising in One Piece like Water 7. By erasing the Red Line, the sea level would return to what it was in the past. While I really like that theory, there are some flaws:

1 - Fish-Men and Merfolk exist. Some even live at the bottom of the ocean. That means this continent would not be a secret, but common knowledge.

2 - The logistics don't really work. If Water 7 is evidence of the sea level rising in the planet over time, then it must be happening slowly. But we got to see Jaya 400 years ago, shouldn't it be completely submerged in the current era? Assuming the Red Line covers 10% of the surface of the planet, that means the sea level would have increased by hundreds of meters in the entire world.

3 - You can't really drop the sea level everywhere in the world all of a sudden. It would basically drain almost all inhabited land in the planet, and cause the death of a large portion of the life on the planet.
 

RaisinRisin

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Morj posted a theory about the One Piece being an enormous continent submerged, since there are many hints of the sea level rising in One Piece like Water 7. By erasing the Red Line, the sea level would return to what it was in the past. While I really like that theory, there are some flaws:

1 - Fish-Men and Merfolk exist. Some even live at the bottom of the ocean. That means this continent would not be a secret, but common knowledge.

2 - The logistics don't really work. If Water 7 is evidence of the sea level rising in the planet over time, then it must be happening slowly. But we got to see Jaya 400 years ago, shouldn't it be completely submerged in the current era? Assuming the Red Line covers 10% of the surface of the planet, that means the sea level would have increased by hundreds of meters in the entire world.

3 - You can't really drop the sea level everywhere in the world all of a sudden. It would basically drain almost all inhabited land in the planet, and cause the death of a large portion of the life on the planet.
I'll have to look up that theory.

1. Fish- and Merpeople being able to potentially follow the currents is a good challenge to my theory, but it's not insurmountable. Those currents could blend with known currents in a misleading way after emerging from the false ocean floor, and there can be other obstacles or anomalies that distract them.

2. I've thought about that and the slow water level change thing can easily be a red herring. Remember, at least as I'm describing it, All Blue it would have to be below the floor of the known seas. Water 7 is mainly just an example of a city on a city as symbolic foreshadowing of a double-decker world. But at the same time, some people have made compelling guesses the sinkhole of waterfalls by Enies Lobby were the results of an earlier Mother Flame incident. If so, where is all that water going so quickly that the hole doesn't fill up?

3. I don't recall suggesting there was ever a sudden drop in sea level (aside from anomalies like the sinkholes), or saying anything about sea level myself actually. Maybe that's someone else's theory? My guess was there's just more water in the ocean than people think, but if Oda goes in this general direction he would likely come up with some fantastical in-world explanation for there being breathable air, dry land, and flowing water down there. Or he might not explain it at all, like that weird water sphere thing that Bonney got rescued from, near Egghead. (What the hell was that thing? What Jinbei said made no sense.) Science is an illusion in this series, it's pretty much magic like everything else.
 

DeadlyBeast

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I already mentioned a few in this thread.

- The Sunlight Tree Eve grew inside the Red Line. Also it absorbs sunlight and oxygen from the surface and sends to Fish-Man island. But despite being over 10,000 meters tall, the top is nowhere to be seen. If the top of the tree was also inside the Red Line, it means there's sunlight and oxygen inside the Red Line.

- The walls of Wano mirrors the Red Line in many ways. In the Japanese version, Big Mom said there one or part of One Piece in Wano. But Wano is not just a massive wall, there's a country inside of it.

- When the Roger Pirates arrived on Laugh Tale and found the One Piece, they were sitting on a circle. Where was the One Piece? Maybe they were inside of it?
I know the top of the Eve Tree has not been explicitly mentioned but I have always assumed it is at the top of Mary Geoise itself i.e. it grows all the way through the Red Line to the very top. For all we know Pangea Castle may have a giant green house where the top of the Eve Tree resides and that's where Imu has been hanging out all this time. Otherwise if it stops growing and is in the middle of a hollow Red Line it won't have access to any sunlight since we know at least in that location the Red Line does have a top vs a giant hole to let in sunlight/oxygen.

Wano is a giant volcanic mountain and unlike the Red Line is not a massive continent. Remember the Red Line not just a simple 10k meter wall spanning the world, even on its thinner width side it is dozens of Wano's wide (refer to the map of the OP world). The country of Wano is just an island inside the caldera of a volcano which is not the same as the Red Line which is far larger and has no hole on the top of it at least in the few locations we have seen (Mary Geoise and Reverse Mountain are both tops of the Red Line with no holes in them).

We never saw any actual part of Laugh Taile in the flashback. Why assume they are sitting there looking at One Piece? Could they just not be sitting there processing what they had just learned?

Since One Piece is not something Roger left behind but was already there it is almost guaranteed to be information from the Ancient Kingdom. This is likely written on the Rio Ponglyph which contains knowledge of the Void Century but is not necessarily limited to just that information. At the end of the day we know that to find Laugh Tale you need the Road Poneglyph and that the Ancient Kingdom is who left those behind and likely left behind whatever One Piece is. If it's not merely the knowledge of Void Century it will still be some other type of information they left behind for the people of the future to inherit.

Ok, that does have the scale. But I don't think it connects with the rest of the story.

The hollow Red Line theory would answer many mysteries, just like the theory about the destruction of the Red Line.
I know it's farfetched but it could connect to the story and answer some important questions too. For example:
  • What became of the moon people aka Birkans who went to Earth since it's clear they had super advanced tech? They had an empire on the moon that they were forced to abandon.
    • My crazy idea could answer the origins of the Ancient Kingdom and it's technology. For example the migration of moon people to Earth could of resulted in some staying on Sky Islands but the majority went to Blue Sea and formed a new Kingdom. Using their advanced tech that Earth people didn't have they created a utopia of sorts and freed lots of people. However, some of the existing monarchs of the Earth people may have grown jealous of their power and banded together to commit a genocide wiping the moon people/Ancient Kingdom away and forming CD & WG.
  • Who the heck are the space pirates and where did they come from?
    • This could be answered by the fact there are other moons/planets inhabited by alien people. When we see a model of the world in the Tree of Knowledge in Ohara (chapter 392) we see 6 moons around the Earth. So it could be the case there is a super advanced empire up there that rules these moons (if we keep the scale to just the planet/moons) and they just have been leaving Earth alone. But if they learn that their people who went to Earth were killed off it could lead them to act starting a large war that impacts both the people on Earth and all the aliens people living on those moons.
  • Why are the Ancient Kingdom super advanced and what is the Eternal Flame?
    • If the people of the Ancient Kingdom come from a more advanced people living on the moon, they would be more technologically advanced than Earth people. Since they lived separately it is easier to explain why they could have gotten more advanced without the tech spreading to other parts of the world as it developed. Also as people living on the moon access to solar energy is more available and might be what led them to develop something like nuclear fusion (I think that's what the eternal flame is going to end up being).
 

Hannibal Psyche

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My problem with theories like this is people have an idea that they think is great, and they'll try to prove it right.

A good theory doesn't need to be forced, everything just falls into place. In fact, with a good theory, you can go out of your way to prove it wrong, and you will come up short.

This theory doesn't add up. There's simply no evidence.

It also adds absolutely nothing to the story.
 

Fox666

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Remember the Red Line not just a simple 10k meter wall spanning the world, even on its thinner width side it is dozens of Wano's wide (refer to the map of the OP world).
Actually Wano is quite large. They communicate by throwing arrows that travel a distance of 1,000 ri, or 4,000 km. That's bigger than India.
 
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