Favorites What do you love about NPOT

[-Ken-]

Like the fact that the main characters lose a match and beating players they shouldn't at point in the story.

Are you referring to Echizen vs Sanada? Without Rai and In I think that match is pretty fair. Sanada just views his victory against Tezuka as more important than a promise to his friend who is having a life threatening surgery, that's all.

Let's forget that Konomi intends for another team to fight Seigaku in the final, so most likely those two move won't even be shown if that is the case.

If you view another team fighting Seigaku as a scenario Konomi intends, Echizen beating Sanada makes perfect sense. Because there wouldn't be rematch against Rikkai in the first place.

 

[Kaoz]

Only have time for a quick post, I'll get to the other threads later.

Are you referring to Echizen vs Sanada? Without Rai and In I think that match is pretty fair. Sanada just views his victory against Tezuka as more important than a promise to his friend who is having a life threatening surgery, that's all.

I reread that match a while ago and I've been waiting for you to bring this up again since I'm very much convinced now that you're not being fair to Sanada. After the match, we learned that Ryoma's final shot had a 1% success rate at best at that time, that's probably less likely that scoring with a cord ball. It also makes sense that Sanada didn't use Muga earlier - it's implied that he can't use it for that long, so him waiting until Ryoma's lost as much energy as possible seems like a strategically sound move. Basically, Sanada didn't keep Rai and In sealed because of his pride, but rather because he was convinced he would win that match with that strategy, and if it hadn't been for a huge gamble on Ryoma's part, that would've actually been the case as well.

 

[-Ken-]

I reread that match a while ago and I've been waiting for you to bring this up again since I'm very much convinced now that you're not being fair to Sanada. After the match, we learned that Ryoma's final shot had a 1% success rate at best at that time, that's probably less likely that scoring with a cord ball. It also makes sense that Sanada didn't use Muga earlier - it's implied that he can't use it for that long, so him waiting until Ryoma's lost as much energy as possible seems like a strategically sound move. Basically, Sanada didn't keep Rai and In sealed because of his pride, but rather because he was convinced he would win that match with that strategy, and if it hadn't been for a huge gamble on Ryoma's part, that would've actually been the case as well.

Why am I not being fair? If Sanada use Rai Echizen is done for no matter what. Even if it is as you say and he does not use Muga until the last point, Sanada could very easily win the match. In the end, regardless of the reason Sanada want to withhold the move, it's the fact that he simply withhold the move. Did he not? He could easily win, but he decide to gamble and of course, lose.

Also, the fact the thoughts you mention are not stated in manga in any ways at all and required many years later of analysis to come out with this reason is not quite convincing either. The facts is simply that he seal the two move to beat Tezuka, and he doesn't bring it out in the match.

Also, even if the ball bounce in some other way, there's nothing suggest that Sanada can return other sort of bounce as well. And even if Sanada return the ball it's not like Echizen can't return the ball. And even if Sanada win the point he still didn't win the match. It's not like if that 1/100 chance doesn't occur Sanada would win the match. I think you're not being fair to Echizen. Echizen had score countless other points that bounce against Sanada in that match. Proof? Look up every page that Ryoma score up until that point in the entire match.

 

[Kaoz]

In the end, regardless of the reason Sanada want to withhold the move, it's the fact that he simply withhold the move. Did he not? He could easily win, but he decide to gamble and of course, lose.

Is it a gamble if you win 99 out of 100 times? It's a miscalculation, maybe, but I find it unjustified to say Sanada didn't care enough about the promise he made to Yukimura and is selfish or whatever because of that.

Also, the fact the thoughts you mention are not stated in manga in any ways at all and required many years later of analysis to come out with this reason is not quite convincing either.

Everything I stated is explicitly said in the manga. It is said that Ryoma had a 1% chance to land that COOL Drive and it is said that Sanada brought out Muga when he did precisely to ensure his victory. He chose Muga over Rai and In at the time and he thought it would seal the deal. Again, miscalculation? Yes. Malicious intent? Not so much.

Furthermore, it's hardy "many years of analysis", it's simply a match I don't read very often. I noticed it the first time I read it again after you made your claim.

Also, even if the ball bounce in some other way, there's nothing suggest that Sanada can return other sort of bounce as well. And even if Sanada return the ball it's not like Echizen can't return the ball. And even if Sanada win the point he still didn't win the match.

Sanada was in position to return a regular bounce. Also, Ryoma fell on the floor completely exhausted after hitting that smash. It's strongly implied that he wouldn't have been able to deal with the return or been able to take on Sanada if the match had gone on for any longer.

Also, I don't want to take away from Ryoma for winning that match. I am objecting the idea that Sanada is a bad person or whatever for doing what he did.

 

[-Ken-]

Now, you say Sanada is in the position to return regulR bounce, but what are the chance that the ball with extremely irregular spin will get a regular bounce? And will Sanada hit the irregular spin back on his first try? And Echizen can simple be in the grouns because he saw the bounce. There's too many uncertainty here.

I disagree on echizen not being able to finish the match. He shown to last a lot longer than even Atobe.

You think it's unjustify, I think it is. I think it's bad that he even try to risk promise his friend who is trying to have a life surgery. No mattet what, in the end, he risk it. End of story. I don't think it's a guanrantee that Sanada will return the ball even if it doesn't bounce like that. If you think so, then we just have to agree to disagree. He can use rai and in and seal the deal much earlier than he decide to use muga.

If he truly view it as important, he can use the other move much earlier.

 

[Fuuji Genichiro]

meh, i agree with kaoz on the characters, but konomi basically said "fuck you" to alot of favorites (momoshiro, inui, yanagi, sengoku etc), Its nice to have an expansive universe, but that universe needs to be developed under time , he does give us alot of things to think about, but i think most of that stems from the original POT formula (which was done properly). i just hate how less interesting and more predictable ryoma's matches have become. I blame auras, it gives him an excuse o not come up with ingenius ways to win his matches, or maybe konomi just tan out of ideas.
maybe its unfair to judge other manga's by the One Piece standard of character development?

 

[Kaoz]

The major difference between PoT and NPoT is simply build.

"But Fayte", I say, "what about the times this happened in NPoT?" I'll give you Tachibana, someone who was introduced in chapter 20 and didn't even start going all-out until chapter 243, but for the rest I'd say there are indeed comparable cases in the sequel.

For instance, Oni had a match in ch 4-5, but he only played with the cross-string racket. The next time he appeared, he was shown training with the strongest of the camp and left one of the strongest MSers on the floor. We then saw him obliterate some HSer at the end of the team shuffle, saw him just below Tokugawa in the 2nd string list, then he went on to defeat the No. 5 of the first string. We didn't see the extent of his power until the second match with Kintarou in ch 91.

It's even more apparent for Tokugawa. In his very first appearance he's compared to Yukimura, one of the very strongest characters we had known until then. He beats Ryoma without really breaking a sweat. But we don't actually know anything about his abilities until he plays Byoudouin in ch 115.

And let's not forget about Irie. Out of these three he was the first one we saw play a close match, but we still don't actually know what he's capable of even now. Ryoga was introduced in ch 50, we don't really know anything about him. Q.P. got hyped as masterpiece and we probably won't see him again for quite a while; the only thing we know is that he's really strong. Not to mention the other two German pros who were mentioned to exist, but haven't even appeared yet. I'd say Tanegashima falls into this category as well.

So in conclusion, there's been quite a few characters that were introduced much earlier than their true strength was shown.

 

[Fuuji Genichiro]

meh, i think i shouted at ken alot about the sanada thing, sanada probably thought he could still win without it, and was just stubborn until the end (as he usually is)
butafter ryoma went into muga, sanada shouldve just used rai, and ended all discussions there. i doubt even TnK at that point in time would have saved ryoma.
but what i dislike isnt the late development, its how he left out fucking MOMO, arguably the most loved character for a good while in POT

why the fuck would a mangaka take one of his best developed characters and forget about him after hyping the fuck out of him with BJK??? How do you defend that? i suspect he would a possible replacement for ryoma

 

[-Ken-]

butafter ryoma went into muga, sanada shouldve just used rai, and ended all discussions there. i doubt even TnK at that point in time would have saved ryoma.

I agree here pretty much. But Sanada could pretty much use the move much later. Even at 5-5 he should have seen the threat that Echizen is. In the end, Echizen corner him 6-5 match point and he still decide to only use Muga. If he use Rai even at that point he would have won the match. Maybe it's Konomi way to show that Sanada is a bad judge of situation? He lost, as shown in his match with Echizen. In the National Final match, if Yukimura didn't step in, he also would have lost to Tezuka Phantom.

Anyways, Echizen only fall down after he saw him win the match. If you EVER work really hard at something and succeed, you'll notice all the pressure coming in at once when you succeed, which is pretty much what happen to Echizen. I don't have much doubt he can go until whatever is necessary in that match. Against Tanegashima, well, Sanada got stomp hard there, nothing he could have done to begin with.

but what i dislike isnt the late development, its how he left out fucking MOMO, arguably the most loved character for a good while in POT
why the fuck would a mangaka take one of his best developed characters and forget about him after hyping the fuck out of him with BJK??? How do you defend that? i suspect he would a possible replacement for ryoma

You mean Momoshiro, yeah, I agree. It's weird that he's not on the final team when he improve so much.

 

[Fayte]

I think we can all agree that even Konomi would say, in hindsight, he would have made Rikkaidai win Kantou. The only reason why they didn't win was because Konomi had not even thought of both Rai/In and the Nationals. Had he planned ahead for Rikkaidai to be in the finals, obviously it makes more sense for the main character to be the underdog and lose the first time, to work their way up to win the second time. Winning both times was too much of a stretch. I believe this is why the anime had Echizen lose 0-6 to Sanada prior to the official match. It simply makes the most sense from a narrative perspective.

"But Fayte", I say, "what about the times this happened in NPoT?" I'll give you Tachibana, someone who was introduced in chapter 20 and didn't even start going all-out until chapter 243, but for the rest I'd say there are indeed comparable cases in the sequel.

For instance, Oni had a match in ch 4-5, but he only played with the cross-string racket. The next time he appeared, he was shown training with the strongest of the camp and left one of the strongest MSers on the floor. We then saw him obliterate some HSer at the end of the team shuffle, saw him just below Tokugawa in the 2nd string list, then he went on to defeat the No. 5 of the first string. We didn't see the extent of his power until the second match with Kintarou in ch 91.

It's even more apparent for Tokugawa. In his very first appearance he's compared to Yukimura, one of the very strongest characters we had known until then. He beats Ryoma without really breaking a sweat. But we don't actually know anything about his abilities until he plays Byoudouin in ch 115.

And let's not forget about Irie. Out of these three he was the first one we saw play a close match, but we still don't actually know what he's capable of even now. Ryoga was introduced in ch 50, we don't really know anything about him. Q.P. got hyped as masterpiece and we probably won't see him again for quite a while; the only thing we know is that he's really strong. Not to mention the other two German pros who were mentioned to exist, but haven't even appeared yet. I'd say Tanegashima falls into this category as well.

So in conclusion, there's been quite a few characters that were introduced much earlier than their true strength was shown.

I said what I said knowing that someone would bring up Kazuya, Oni, and Irie. I'm not disputing the fact that a couple of characters had some development. I'm saying it hasn't been the framework for the series. When we first meet Oni, he immediately plays a match with a main character. That isn't build. I will give you Kazuya and Irie, and I will throw in Shuuji for you as well. I will not count Oni, because he actually played a match, even if it was with a two-stringed racquet.

So of every highschooler, and there are a plethora of them, we get a build up for 3 of them. That ratio is substantially more wide than PoT1, where we get to see multiple players on every single team before the main characters play matches with them. We even see them play matches against other teams. The pace of PoT1 and 2 are different.

 

[Kaoz]

Sorry, but I'll have to disagree with you on that. Oni playing a match does not take away from his build, it's simply a different approach. I mean, yes, we knew he was going to be a power player, but his true strength was completely unclear to us for a long time. He was a mysterious character without a doubt and I don't think it's wrong to say that the reader was curious about him the same way they were curious about all the other characters you acknowledge as having gotten build.

Also, what about Ryoga? That's 4. What about QP? That's 5. The German pros? 7. Then there's Camus and Amadeus, so 9. Also, there are others I didn't mention in my previous post. We knew about the 1st string since ch 1, saw them for the first time in ch 50 and the G10 had their first match in ch 70. Byoudouin was introduced in ch 50 and didn't have a match until ch 115 (or 95 if you count Oni's flashback). Then there's Reinhardt and Valentine, depending on how seriously you took his tiebreaker with Ryoma, Obandu as well.

I think you can get to about a dozen characters that have received or are receiving build in SPoT at least, even if you're using strict criteria. And this series is nowhere near over either.

 

[Fuuji Genichiro]

having a team of 14 for games which will need only 7 for both highschool and Mschool means konomi will need alot of times to develop all 14 japanese reps and some of the highschoolers, not to mention the other nations, and our forgotten heroes which have been hinted at to be improved
give or take at least 300 more chapters
which means years, maybe they will do the anime PROPERLY in that time

---------- Post added at 07:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:58 PM ----------

I think we can all agree that even Konomi would say, in hindsight, he would have made Rikkaidai win Kantou. The only reason why they didn't win was because Konomi had not even thought of both Rai/In and the Nationals.

-Noob mangaka :P
Konomi should be reading more OP

 

[-Ken-]

I think we can all agree that even Konomi would say, in hindsight, he would have made Rikkaidai win Kantou. The only reason why they didn't win was because Konomi had not even thought of both Rai/In and the Nationals. Had he planned ahead for Rikkaidai to be in the finals, obviously it makes more sense for the main character to be the underdog and lose the first time, to work their way up to win the second time. Winning both times was too much of a stretch. I believe this is why the anime had Echizen lose 0-6 to Sanada prior to the official match. It simply makes the most sense from a narrative perspective.

Well, I think it's stated that another team was to face off Seigaku in the national final. In which case all the national upgrade for Rikkai most likely wouldn't even happen. But he change his mind because he think the fan would like to see Rikkai more. In this what you are referring to?

If yes, I pretty much agree. I don't think Konomi think of Rai and In yet by that time. I just feels it's out of line with Sanada personality. It also would make much more sense for Rikkai to win Kantou if Seigaku were to have a rematch with Rikkai again later.

 

[Fayte]

Well, I think it's stated that another team was to face off Seigaku in the national final. In which case all the national upgrade for Rikkai most likely wouldn't even happen. But he change his mind because he think the fan would like to see Rikkai more. In this what you are referring to?

Right. Like I said, Konomi didn't actually have a plan for the Nationals when Kantou was happening. If Seigaku played a different team in the National finals, then yes, Rikkaidai should have lost Kantou. However, personally, I believe Yukimura is the sole reason for Rikkaidai coming back in the Nationals. He had no playtime in Kantou, and I bet Konomi really wanted to show him off, rather than create a new team.

Sorry, but I'll have to disagree with you on that. Oni playing a match does not take away from his build, it's simply a different approach. I mean, yes, we knew he was going to be a power player, but his true strength was completely unclear to us for a long time. He was a mysterious character without a doubt and I don't think it's wrong to say that the reader was curious about him the same way they were curious about all the other characters you acknowledge as having gotten build.

Also, what about Ryoga? That's 4. What about QP? That's 5. The German pros? 7. Then there's Camus and Amadeus, so 9. Also, there are others I didn't mention in my previous post. We knew about the 1st string since ch 1, saw them for the first time in ch 50 and the G10 had their first match in ch 70. Byoudouin was introduced in ch 50 and didn't have a match until ch 115 (or 95 if you count Oni's flashback). Then there's Reinhardt and Valentine, depending on how seriously you took his tiebreaker with Ryoma, Obandu as well.

I think you can get to about a dozen characters that have received or are receiving build in SPoT at least, even if you're using strict criteria. And this series is nowhere near over either.

We will just have to agree to disagree. I clearly see a difference between PoT1 and 2, and I'm simply making generalizations in an attempt to express what they are. Picking apart every single little exception to my argument doesn't bring validity to the contrary, it is simply missing the point. Oni played a match with a member of Seigaku almost immediately after we meet him. That is not true of any other character I mentioned in PoT1. Ryoga hasn't played a single match yet, and QP wasn't a thing until he was physically playing against Japan. That isn't build, that is "Here is this guy you're playing, and let me tell you why you should care."

 

[felixng2011]

To see how ridiculous the manga can get also for certain characters I like.

 

[Tanuki25]

I never read PoT, I only watched it and I liked it alot.
But then I got to see NPoT and searched for the manga, and OMG I completly fell in love with it!
But the love only deepened after the other high schoolers showed up (Genius 10), especially Byodoin *fangirly squeal*
So, for short: I love the drawing!
I love the story - for me it's like a combination of Super Dragon Ball (or DBZ) and Tennis ^^ so it's only natural for me to love it!
Fav Chara: Byoudouin Houou
2nd fav chara: Tanegashima Shuji
Most hated chara: Momoshiro

 

[-Ken-]

I never read PoT, I only watched it and I liked it alot.
But then I got to see NPoT and searched for the manga, and OMG I completly fell in love with it!
But the love only deepened after the other high schoolers showed up (Genius 10), especially Byodoin *fangirly squeal*
So, for short: I love the drawing!
I love the story - for me it's like a combination of Super Dragon Ball (or DBZ) and Tennis ^^ so it's only natural for me to love it!
Fav Chara: Byoudouin Houou
2nd fav chara: Tanegashima Shuji
Most hated chara: Momoshiro

If you only watch the anime, I recommend reading the parts of PoT that wasn't in the anime like original Seigaku vs Rikkai in case you want more PoT fix.

 

[Hardy]

Manga Kanto is peak PoT imo, and most of the final games in the arc are completely different in the anime (...for the worst in every case except for Akutsu vs Ryoma 2, that was neat).