Discussion Mser Tier list

[LetalHawk]

Agree to disagree) either way, the past is past.
For Ryoma vs Fuji, Konomi-San knows how to shape that match, and the conclusion would be different than those you mentioned. It could/must be!
And for Irie, we have many discussion about how good is Irie or how close top Mser's to G5!
But nid to mention that I don't think being close to G5 meaning that top Msers can deal with #6-10, I found them so talented, but since we knew too much more details about Msers, well it's natural to think that they are easy bucket, I disagree.
So, Ohmigari with Kintaroo vs Y/Y could be helpful, in some ways

I disagree. At this point, probably, the strongest Msers (Ryoma, Yuki, Tezuka, Kintarou, Atobe..) can comfortably beat No.10 to No.6. The strongest ones (Tezuka, Ryoma, Yuki, Kin) can possibly stomp them without much effort. We’ll have a better idea after the matches, but if Atobe beats a serious Irie (which I think is highly possibly), Atobe should be G5 level right now, and I think he probably is.

About the D2 match, if Yuki vs Ohmagari happened in singles with Yuki at top form (like vs Germany), Ohmagari practically doesn’t stand a chance.

 

[-Ken-]

So am I lol.

Because you seem to look down Ryoma Hyakuren that is actually capable of scoring points against Yukimura who absolutely stomp Sanada and make Rai completely worthless?

 

[Tavore]

It's a shame Akustu didn't play in the little tournament.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Also, Ryoma beat Ludovic without using TnK or other strong moves like his glowing Drive B. He just used Hope + his Samurai Kijin and figured a way to counter the return of the SSS doubled. We didn’t see his entire arsenal as he didn’t need more than that.

Ryoma is, and will remain the top Mser in Japan.

Rigt now probably.

Hmmm. Just for the sake of discussion. Let us include tezuka

I am not sure Ryoma is significantly stronger than Tezuka. If they fight without plot. It will be 50-50 imo. Correct me if I am wrong , but I think Ryoma didnt beat Tezuka yet in manga.

I am talking about now. Not when Ryoma achieve an upgrade to beat Ryoga. Lol.

Actually, including the Japan Hsers. Who are stronger than Ryoma right now?

I will say Byodoin and Tanegashima?

Is Ryoma stronger than Toku, Duke, and Oni right now?

 

[kaibaman]

I Don't think we can beat Oni and Toku just yet i might be wrong about that .

 

[Tavore]

Which matches would've you liked to seen between MS? Mine would be Atobe VS Kin Ryoma vs Tezuka Yukimura vs Akutsu and Sandra vs Fuji.

 

[-Ken-]

Atobe vs Sanada

Maybe Yukimura is out of his match, but what about Sanada?

Fuji vs Tezuka

We got tease about this since forever ago

Akutsu Kintarou VS Yanagi Inui

Total wild card vs data pair

 

[Tavore]

Atobe vs Sanada

Maybe Yukimura is out of his match, but what about Sanada?

Fuji vs Tezuka

We got tease about this since forever ago

Akutsu Kintarou VS Yanagi Inui

Total wild card vs data pair

What do you mean out his match? The game Atobe played against Yukimura was extremely close.

 

[-Ken-]

What do you mean out his match? The game Atobe played against Yukimura was extremely close.

Some people don't consider anime canon, so we won't really know their level if they were to fight each other. We do know Tezuka stomp Atobe and last we saw Yukimura fighting on even ground with Tezuka though.

And if Atobe somehow received an upgrade that's not in the Future game in his match with Irie or the final, that is more pending on the match not being really canon.

 

[Tavore]

Some people don't consider anime canon, so we won't really know their level if they were to fight each other. We do know Tezuka stomp Atobe and last we saw Yukimura fighting on even ground with Tezuka though.

And if Atobe somehow received an upgrade that's not in the Future game in his match with Irie or the final, that is more pending on the match not being really canon.

Doesn't matter it's clear he wants to portray the top MS being close to each other.

 

[Hardy]

Some people don't consider anime canon, so we won't really know their level if they were to fight each other. We do know Tezuka stomp Atobe and last we saw Yukimura fighting on even ground with Tezuka though.

And if Atobe somehow received an upgrade that's not in the Future game in his match with Irie or the final, that is more pending on the match not being really canon.

To be fair, right before the semis Atobe briefly played against Tezuka and while he lost the point (IIRC) he was satisfied with the outcome so I doubt he would had been stomped once again.

But yeah unless Atobe gets a serious stat upgrade his regular moves shouldn't do anything on Yukimura, which happened in the OVA.

Atobe's training montage vs Sanada is one of my favourite OG PoT scenes I think haha

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Who is ahead between Sanada and Atobe now?

In POT, iirc, it was hinted Atobe was slightly better than Sanada right?

I remember Yukimura stopped their match, and when Atobe is gone. Yukimura flatly said to Sanada that he would have lost if the game continued. I am not sure if it is in anime only or also in manga.

Probably matchup advantage is a thing though between Tezuka, Atobe, and Sanada in POT.

Healthy POT Tezuka lost to Sanada. (Tezuka injured himself by spamming phantom). But imo, that Nationals Tezuka will beat Nationals Atobe.
Now, does that mean Sanada should have beaten Atobe too?

Idk. I am not sure transitive property always applied in POT and even in NPOT.

PS: OFC, Tezuka is so ahead of both right now. But Sanada (if triple clutch is perfected) and Atobe would probably received powerups. Especially Atobe.

 

[-Ken-]

Who is ahead between Sanada and Atobe now?

In POT, iirc, it was hinted Atobe was slightly better than Sanada right?

I remember Yukimura stopped their match, and when Atobe is gone. Yukimura flatly said to Sanada that he would have lost if the game continued. I am not sure if it is in anime only or also in manga.

Yes and no. Sanada also sealed off his Rai at that time and refuse to bring it out. It's to the extent that he want to win against Tezuka so much he's totally fine breaking his promise to Yukimura and keep Rai sealed during the Kantou final. There's no way Sanada would suddenly use Rai randomly against Atobe in a random match that's not even official.

Healthy POT Tezuka lost to Sanada. (Tezuka injured himself by spamming phantom). But imo, that Nationals Tezuka will beat Nationals Atobe.

It is to be noted that it's because Sanada sealing rai and breaking his promise to Yukimura that it completely take Tezuka by surprised. And even if Tezuka is taken by surprised, Tezuka still managed to come up with Tezuka Phantom on the spot to beat Sanada. If there's longer time to prepare, Tezuka can probably come up with better solution to Sanada's sealed move than what happen in the National. This is kind of seen in a way in NPoT, where Tezuka greatly improved more than Sanada.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 14, 2022, Original Post Date: Aug 14, 2022 ---

Doesn't matter it's clear he wants to portray the top MS being close to each other.

If they are, then he wouldn't draw Sanada getting completely stomp by Yukimura or Atobe stomp by Tezuka. There CAN be some gaps between them. So the manga seem to suggest it matter.

Atobe vs Yukimura is anime only match. So why wouldn't it matter?

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2022 ---

Just read the first page and thought about something

If memory serves, not too long ago, the Critical Winds weren't considered all that impressive in these types of discussions.

The previous match with Bismarck is in big retrospect to the previous opinions.

So before this, Critical Winds are kinda glossed over. It was in the period where I disappear on the board so i didn't really show any opinion on it back then. And even if I did, I probably would doubt Critical Wind power as well.

However, with Germany rematch, we found out that Bismark is actually a better player than Tanegashima, the whooping #2 on Japan team (Although his actual ranking can be debate). We know that Tanegashima singlehandedly shut down Akutsu and Sanada back then pretty handily even with limiting at 60%. For me, that makes Critical Wind working against Bismarck who is not going easy on them seem like it is an extremely impressive move, even more so than 1 curve black aura and rai and 10 balls! Akutsu back then.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Yes and no. Sanada also sealed off his Rai at that time and refuse to bring it out. It's to the extent that he want to win against Tezuka so much he's totally fine breaking his promise to Yukimura and keep Rai sealed during the Kantou final. There's no way Sanada would suddenly use Rai randomly against Atobe in a random match that's not even official.



It is to be noted that it's because Sanada sealing rai and breaking his promise to Yukimura that it completely take Tezuka by surprised. And even if Tezuka is taken by surprised, Tezuka still managed to come up with Tezuka Phantom on the spot to beat Sanada. If there's longer time to prepare, Tezuka can probably come up with better solution to Sanada's sealed move than what happen in the National. This is kind of seen in a way in NPoT, where Tezuka greatly improved more than Sanada.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 14, 2022, Original Post Date: Aug 14, 2022 ---

If they are, then he wouldn't draw Sanada getting completely stomp by Yukimura or Atobe stomp by Tezuka. There CAN be some gaps between them. So the manga seem to suggest it matter.

Atobe vs Yukimura is anime only match. So why wouldn't it matter?

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2022 ---

Just read the first page and thought about something



The previous match with Bismarck is in big retrospect to the previous opinions.

So before this, Critical Winds are kinda glossed over. It was in the period where I disappear on the board so i didn't really show any opinion on it back then. And even if I did, I probably would doubt Critical Wind power as well.

However, with Germany rematch, we found out that Bismark is actually a better player than Tanegashima, the whooping #2 on Japan team (Although his actual ranking can be debate). We know that Tanegashima singlehandedly shut down Akutsu and Sanada back then pretty handily even with limiting at 60%. For me, that makes Critical Wind working against Bismarck who is not going easy on them seem like it is an extremely impressive move, even more so than 1 curve black aura and rai and 10 balls! Akutsu back then.

You based the Tanegashima VS Bismarck in 1 tiebreak game?

Bismarck (the king of tiebreaks) would have won that if not for Akaya interfering.

However, I wonder if Bismarck will also beat Tanegashima in Singles in a Full Match. I mean not only in tiebreaks.

Also, if you have Bismarck over Tanegashima. Do you have Bismarck over Tezuka as well?

Volk and QP are obviously Germany's 2 best players.

But how do we rank Bismarck, Tezuka, and even Bertie?

 

[-Ken-]

You based the Tanegashima VS Bismarck in 1 tiebreak game?

Bismarck (the king of tiebreaks) would have won that if not for Akaya interfering.

However, I wonder if Bismarck will also beat Tanegashima in Singles in a Full Match. I mean not only in tiebreaks.

It's not over 1 tiebreak. They have a full set game against each other.

Chapter - New Prince of Tennis Chapter 325, 326 and 327 Discussion

Chapter 325 Chapter 326 Chapter 327 The summary is based on machine translated content.

mangahelpers.com

Kirihara is out.

Chapter - New Prince of Tennis Chapter 328, 329 and 330 Discussion

Chapter 328 Chapter 329 Chapter 330 The chapter 328 and 330 summaries are based on machine translated content. Thanks to @Waterlinkedgirl for the chapter 329 summary.

mangahelpers.com

And the second set just only beginning. Germany go 1-0 in the next chapter after that one. That's literally the start of the new set.

Chapter - New Prince of Tennis Chapter 331, 332 and 333 Discussion

Chapter 331 Chapter 332 Chapter 333 This summary is based on machine translated content.

mangahelpers.com

Kirihara didn't join in until Tanegashima is about to lose a tiebreak.


So yes, Bismarck would have indeed won that if not for Kirihara. Moreover, he won a full set, not just tiebreak. And this Tanegashima is at 100%, not the 60% Tanegashima that still stomp Rai/1 clutch sanada (that can still score against National! Yukimura)/ as well as 10 ball! Akutsu.

Now on Bismarck/Tezuka/QP/Bertie ranking, I got no idea yet. I'm just pointing out that Fuji feats that was overlook before is actually A LOT more impressive than what it seems to be back then with the additional information we got on where Bismarck is as a player from the Germany rematch.

 

[Ganonslayer101]

So yes, Bismarck would have indeed won that if not for Kirihara. Moreover, he won a full set, not just tiebreak. And this Tanegashima is at 100%, not the 60% Tanegashima that still stomp Rai/1 clutch sanada (that can still score against National! Yukimura)/ as well as 10 ball! Akutsu.

That argument's kind of misleading though ain't it. While they technically played a full set the catalyst was that it was still doubles. So every other serve they hit was a free point, and every time their partner served was a free game to them.
The whole reason it got to tiebreak was because they were still playing by doubles rules.
All in all, Bismarck only had to beat Tanegashima for one point to close the deal, not the same as taking six games from him.

 

[LetalHawk]

Yes and no. Sanada also sealed off his Rai at that time and refuse to bring it out. It's to the extent that he want to win against Tezuka so much he's totally fine breaking his promise to Yukimura and keep Rai sealed during the Kantou final. There's no way Sanada would suddenly use Rai randomly against Atobe in a random match that's not even official.



It is to be noted that it's because Sanada sealing rai and breaking his promise to Yukimura that it completely take Tezuka by surprised. And even if Tezuka is taken by surprised, Tezuka still managed to come up with Tezuka Phantom on the spot to beat Sanada. If there's longer time to prepare, Tezuka can probably come up with better solution to Sanada's sealed move than what happen in the National. This is kind of seen in a way in NPoT, where Tezuka greatly improved more than Sanada.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 14, 2022, Original Post Date: Aug 14, 2022 ---

If they are, then he wouldn't draw Sanada getting completely stomp by Yukimura or Atobe stomp by Tezuka. There CAN be some gaps between them. So the manga seem to suggest it matter.

Atobe vs Yukimura is anime only match. So why wouldn't it matter?

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2022 ---

Just read the first page and thought about something



The previous match with Bismarck is in big retrospect to the previous opinions.

So before this, Critical Winds are kinda glossed over. It was in the period where I disappear on the board so i didn't really show any opinion on it back then. And even if I did, I probably would doubt Critical Wind power as well.

However, with Germany rematch, we found out that Bismark is actually a better player than Tanegashima, the whooping #2 on Japan team (Although his actual ranking can be debate). We know that Tanegashima singlehandedly shut down Akutsu and Sanada back then pretty handily even with limiting at 60%. For me, that makes Critical Wind working against Bismarck who is not going easy on them seem like it is an extremely impressive move, even more so than 1 curve black aura and rai and 10 balls! Akutsu back then.

Both things are different. For Raí, if you have good technique and have great reaction speed and somehow you see it coming, you can prepare yourself before Sanada hits it to come up with a counter, so basically you have a small reaction margin but enough for top players to counter it.

For Fuji’s first Critical Wind (Aoi Fubuki), it’s a smash returning a smash, the reaction time you have is practically zero and if Fuji hits it it’s next to impossible to return. As the player is still hitting the smash (and his stance is with the racket down) Fuji returns it instantly and the ball blitz passes you. Unless you move at the speed of light or smthing, is an impossible move to return. So no matter who hits the smash, if Fuji hits it is game over, so I think it’s a bit unfair to compare both techniques. Even Sanada can’t teleport back as he hasn’t shown that feat of teleporting mid-air, so it’s futile.

So short said, I think one move is practically unreturnable and the other one can be returned with the necessary tools

 

[-Ken-]

Both things are different. For Raí, if you have good technique and have great reaction speed and somehow you see it coming, you can prepare yourself before Sanada hits it to come up with a counter, so basically you have a small reaction margin but enough for top players to counter it.

For Fuji’s first Critical Wind (Aoi Fubuki), it’s a smash returning a smash, the reaction time you have is practically zero and if Fuji hits it it’s next to impossible to return. As the player is still hitting the smash (and his stance is with the racket down) Fuji returns it instantly and the ball blitz passes you. Unless you move at the speed of light or smthing, is an impossible move to return. So no matter who hits the smash, if Fuji hits it is game over, so I think it’s a bit unfair to compare both techniques. Even Sanada can’t teleport back as he hasn’t shown that feat of teleporting mid-air, so it’s futile.

So short said, I think one move is practically unreturnable and the other one can be returned with the necessary tools

If you think it was actually unreturnable, it simply means it was underrated back then, which is what I am saying. Fuji himself was always extremely underrated by this forum. This shows that he had tools that allows him to compete with top tier and score against someone of that level.

That argument's kind of misleading though ain't it. While they technically played a full set the catalyst was that it was still doubles. So every other serve they hit was a free point, and every time their partner served was a free game to them.
The whole reason it got to tiebreak was because they were still playing by doubles rules.
All in all, Bismarck only had to beat Tanegashima for one point to close the deal, not the same as taking six games from him.

So you don't believe that Bismarck can take 6 games from Tanegashima normally, is that what you are saying?

Wow, for someone who would have lost the tiebreak, Tanegashima wank is way the over the moon here.

According to Tanegashima himself, Bismarck is apparently #2 of Germany team.

• Tanegashima carries the unconscious Kirihara to the bench. Facing Bismarck across the net, Tanegashima says he won't lose to Germany's no. 2.

So according to that statement, he's better than Tezuka as well as QP.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

If you think it was actually unreturnable, it simply means it was underrated back then, which is what I am saying. Fuji himself was always extremely underrated by this forum. This shows that he had tools that allows him to compete with top tier and score against someone of that level.



So you don't believe that Bismarck can take 6 games from Tanegashima normally, is that what you are saying?

Wow, for someone who would have lost the tiebreak, Tanegashima wank is way the over the moon here.

According to Tanegashima himself, Bismarck is apparently #2 of Germany team.



So according to that statement, he's better than Tezuka as well as QP.

I see.

You put credit a lot in every statement said in the story. And put it as 100% true.
Unless, you see it being proven wrong or false

Like Germany's Doubles pro. I bet before the Semis, you think of them as unbeatable doubles pair. Now, that Duke/Niou defeated them, you shift now to them as the strongest doubles pair.

Iirc, Volk Is said to be the stronget player in the tournament. Now that Byodoin beat him. Byodoin is the strongest player for you now?
(Well Ryoga is unknown, so we can say excluding him)

I am not 100% agreeing. But I understand and see your logic.

You have a "to see is to believe" kinda philosophy

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 19, 2022, Original Post Date: Aug 19, 2022 ---

According to Tanegashima himself, Bismarck is apparently #2 of Germany team.



So according to that statement, he's better than Tezuka as well as QP.

Probably. But I think being #2 doesn't automatically put you #2. Tanegashima is Japan's #2, and you were arguing in other thread that Oni is stronger than him.

Though, I know you just want Bismarck and Fuji to have credit. And yeah, they deserve more credit imo.

No one is saying Bismarck is a bad player, he was able to 1 V 2 Fuji and Duke. And the pair barely won.

As for Fuji, I always liked him even more than Ryoma back in POT. Lmao. So I will be in your side there. Haha. Seriously though, I am happy he found a new attacking style than relying too much in his defensive tennis. I hope he still uses them though.

 

[-Ken-]

The statement on Doubles pro being strongest pair comes from Konomi himself in the interview.

So yes, I do need actual proof from the story.

For example, I always consider Kintarou to be equal to Ryoma, but before his upgrade in NPoT, I always concede that based on what is shown in the story, his showing of being equal to Ryoma in semi-final makes it unlikely that he can beat Sanada and maybe even Atobe. And when there's vs topic I would have vote as such.

Switzerland manage to beat Japan 3-0, which is a feats that no other national team have ever done and I highly doubt Spain will be able to do. There are certain match up and stuff that may change the results of the match completely, sure. But Switzerland seemed kinda underrated here. For example, Seigaku could beat Hyoutei pretty handily without retarded line-up that they used in the national. Maybe something similar happen to Switzerland when they lost there too. Who knows?

And many people on this forum still views Germany as a stronger team than Japan although they actually lost. Wouldn't that mean Switzerland can be stronger team than America although they lost as well?