Final August vs Irene

[Stormsfury]

it didn't.

but I guess it would make sense because otherwise he can just copy Acnologia or whatnot.

something like Goku vs Hit.

you can overcome Hit's Time Skip it through sheer power in the manga and later in the anime when Hit tried to kill him he overcome it while powering up.

No but thats how magic worked throughout this arc

E.g Brandishs magic didnt work on enchanted Neinhart cause he had more MP than her

Dimarias time stop didnt work on END because he had more MP than her

I think Hiro last minuted this rule so those ppl with hax Magic could be defeated

Well if it didn't then you can't give it this limitation. Even if August could copy Acno, it wouldn't change the fact that Acno's magic power far supersedes his, so Acno would still be able to wreck him.
You can't just give an ability limitations when it hasn't been given any in the manga, that's just unfair.

 

[Seraph]

No but thats how magic worked throughout this arc

E.g Brandishs magic didnt work on enchanted Neinhart cause he had more MP than her

Dimarias time stop didnt work on END because he had more MP than her

I think Hiro last minuted this rule so those ppl with hax Magic could be defeated

I don't think that we can surely state that Irene has more MP then August in Dragon Form honestly,i mean we don't really have Proof like a Statement of sorts to say that for sure honestly no one ever said that Dragon Irene has more MP then August.
Personally it would make sense to me if she does have more then him in Dragon Form since she enters a Superior Form of hers just as Wendy does with Dragon Force or Natsu when he goes FDKM or LFDM for example it was noted that the MP goes up in DF or it literally became more Visible when Natsu entered FDKM and just burned the Wasteland they were at(vs Zeref Round1).
Like i said and @Stormsfury before as well its up for Debate wether or not Irene has more MP then August since we really have no Proof.
We can only go by Feats shown and even they don't necessarily claim that the one has more MP then the Other.
Both Deus Sema and Ars Magia can create a Huge Destruction upon being used so its tough to say really.
Wish i could say something in her Favor but thats noteworthy as well IMO.

 

[EmptySoul]

Theres nothing to prove Augusts MP is bigger than hers in dragon form either

Human Irenes MP is almost equal to Augusts
Imagine her MP in dragon form
Dragon Irenes MP is definitely > Augusts MP imo
Not to mention that her enchantments become waaaaaay stronger than her enchantments in human form due to the MP increase
She literally goes from high enchanter to master enchanter due to her dragon form

IMO its much more believable Irenes MP in dragon form is bigger than Augusts cause the former has some proof of such as i said above unlike August

 

[Seraph]

Theres nothing to prove Augusts MP is bigger than hers in dragon form either

Human Irenes MP is almost equal to Augusts
Imagine her MP in dragon form
Dragon Irenes MP is definitely > Augusts MP imo
Not to mention that her enchantments become waaaaaay stronger than her enchantments in human form due to the MP increase
She literally goes from high enchanter to master enchanter due to her dragon form

IMO its much more believable Irenes MP in dragon form is bigger than Augusts cause the former has some proof of such as i said above unlike August

I wasn't denying that its possible or Impossible for her to have more,i was just saying we have no Statement in the Manga that says so but of course we can go by her Stronger Enchantments,but don't the Enchantments become Stronger because she is the Sage Dragon and not just a Dragon itself?
I think she said that.
And i even stated what i think makes Sense to me i actually agreed with you lol.

 

[EmptySoul]

Well if it didn't then you can't give it this limitation. Even if August could copy Acno, it wouldn't change the fact that Acno's magic power far supersedes his, so Acno would still be able to wreck him.
You can't just give an ability limitations when it hasn't been given any in the manga, that's just unfair.

But this has been shown in the manga,it doesnt suddenly not apply to august,hes not an exception and dont go it doesnt apply to him because hurr durr magic king

Also thats kinda hyprocitical as ur giving excuses abt it not being in the manga even tho it is while u make claims abt August knowing DSM (caster-holder type imo) when it hasnt been said/shown in the manga

Again August is not an exception to such rules

I wasn't denying that its possible or Impossible for her to have more,i was just saying we have no Statement in the Manga that says so but of course we can go by her Stronger Enchantments,but don't the Enchantments become Stronger because she is the Sage Dragon and not just a Dragon itself?
I think she said that.
And i even stated what i think makes Sense to me i actually agreed with you lol.

No no I was actually replying to Storm

Cause ur a reasonable guy who already voted for Irene

 

[kkck]

Ok, I made up my mind, went for august here. Not much to base my vote on, I just went on hype basically. And hype wise august beats irene. Not by much but still.

 

[Stormsfury]

But this has been shown in the manga,it doesnt suddenly not apply to august,hes not an exception and dont go it doesnt apply to him because hurr durr magic king

Also thats kinda hyprocitical as ur giving excuses abt it not being in the manga even tho it is while u make claims abt August knowing DSM (caster-holder type imo) when it hasnt been said/shown in the manga

Wait..... what? Are you kidding right now?
Where in this manga did it show (or state) that August can't copy and negate magic of a mage with superior magic power to him?....... I'm not making him an exception, you're making him an exception to fit your argument.
And where on earth was dragon slayer magic stated to be a holder type? In-fact how on earth is dragon slayer magic a holder type? It can't actually be a holder type magic, it HAS to be caster type. Where on earth are you getting these alternative facts from? I see a lot of "imo" in your sentences, meaning you're just changing stuff around to suit your explanations.

Please. Please bring me facts the next time you reply to my comments, I only deal with facts. Thank you.

 

[inactive lurker account]

I'm not quite sure if Irene's total magic power actually increases in quantity or magnitude when she takes on her true dragon form, since that would imply that Zeref's spell also acts as some sort of seal or power inhibitor, and assuming that Zeref doesn't have as much raw magic power as either August or Irene, that would in turn imply that Irene as a dragon can be temporarily affected by specialized spells from weaker entities, thereby giving August a temporary loophole if one assumes further that he can perform a similar sort of transmutation magic. I'm more inclined to think that when Irene takes on her true dragon form, she gets to to tap into her reserves including Belserion's sage dragon magic in a more effective manner, thereby boosting the range of her enchantments.

 

[EmptySoul]

Wait..... what? Are you kidding right now?
Where in this manga did it show (or state) that August can't copy and negate magic of a mage with superior magic power to him?....... I'm not making him an exception, you're making him an exception to fit your argument.
And where on earth was dragon slayer magic stated to be a holder type? In-fact how on earth is dragon slayer magic a holder type? It can't actually be a holder type magic, it HAS to be caster type. Where on earth are you getting these alternative facts from? I see a lot of "imo" in your sentences, meaning you're just changing stuff around to suit your explanations.

Please. Please bring me facts the next time you reply to my comments, I only deal with facts. Thank you.

LMAO bruh,Chill
Anyways,u didnt tell me why that shouldnt apply to August tho? It did with some other sprigs who had hax powers as well so it should with him too is all i said :/

Yeah that caster-holder type thing was in brackets just to state my own opinion but it in no way changes the sentence,August cannot copy DSM cause it came from an external source (dragon) and unless he gets it from a Dragon or Lacryma he can NOT have it no matter how many excuses u make for him or benefit of doubts u give him,so as u can see ur the one making exceptions for him here
And that BS GS theory is fkin stupid,u say i should bring facts when all i did was take something that happened in the manga and apply it to August cause i dont see why it shouldnt be,while u August fans use such a vague statement like "hes here with me" to say August has absorbed or copied GSs DSM lmaooo bring them facts/panels of him using it then bih

Also Where was it said August can copy all types of caster magic? All we got was a statement from Gildarts who said was that he cant copy Holder-types which is really fkin Vague,so i dont know where u got "ALL types of caster magic" from plus he has no feats of ever using a special kind of caster magic like DSM anyways and also if that was the case,August could use Zerefs Ankhseram death magic (its not a curse) and that would also mean Rufus memorised DS too and dude couldnt even scratch a dragon

 

[inactive lurker account]

Let me just note that the arguments wouldn't be so heated if we treated universal claims about August's copying ability and the requirements for dragon slayer magic as mere generalities rather than as absolutes. The upshot of course is that we won't be able to claim for sure the limits of August's magic other than holder magic or caster magic coursed through a conduit, and the exceptional means to acquire dragon slayer magic. On that note, whereas Gildarts made a hypothesis about August, the chapter explaining the requirements of dragon slayer magic only shows some Exceed doing the talking, and it did not even say that those two, or a combination of the two as in the cases of Sting and Rogue, are necessarily the only means to acquire dragon slayer magic. Reading the passage gives one the impression that the statement is more along the lines of 'as far as we know...' rather than 'it is an indisputable axiom...' Nonetheless, it's understandable that more people would favor the statement to the point of absolutizing it, given that an exception hasn't been clearly shown after hundreds of chapters, and that dragon slayer magic is more relevant to the story than August's copying ability, but my point still stands that it's possible to interpret both statements as not absolute

 

[BluePegasus]

August knowing DSM (caster-holder type imo) when it hasnt been said/shown in the manga

This line is a complete mess. I can't believe you just said "caster-holder type magic".

What the actual fuck.

 

[Laxus]

I will choose the one who had the less ridiculous death. And both had a big ass ridiculous death.

Take a guess.

 

[coolerthanzerok]

I will choose the one who had the less ridiculous death. And both had a big ass ridiculous death.

Take a guess.

I honestly have no idea. I mean, I guess it's loosely plausible that August's attack got interrupted and he was dying for a reason? Irene just sorta killed herself because why not. So yeah, I am guessing you voted August, but it could definitely go either way.

 

[Seraph]

I will choose the one who had the less ridiculous death. And both had a big ass ridiculous death.

Take a guess.

You pass on Voting at all?
Taking a Guess regardless and betting my Money on Irene.

 

[Enima]

That's Jellal blitzing Acnologia in Meteor. Keep in mind Acnologia exterminated the dragon race and thus must have better stats than basically all other dragons. He still couldn't react to Meteor.

I want to state this again though, I'm not saying August will use this to attack Irene, this is useful because it means he can avoid claw swipes for some time.

I don't think Acno was trying to dodge that, there was no need for him to dodge an attack from Jellal. Think of it this way, If a small fly is going to crash on to you would you stand still or would you dodge it? Dodging it would be a waste of energy. Acno didn't want to waste his energy

I'm not quite sure if Irene's total magic power actually increases in quantity or magnitude when she takes on her true dragon form, since that would imply that Zeref's spell also acts as some sort of seal or power inhibitor, and assuming that Zeref doesn't have as much raw magic power as either August or Irene, that would in turn imply that Irene as a dragon can be temporarily affected by specialized spells from weaker entities, thereby giving August a temporary loophole if one assumes further that he can perform a similar sort of transmutation magic. I'm more inclined to think that when Irene takes on her true dragon form, she gets to to tap into her reserves including Belserion's sage dragon magic in a more effective manner, thereby boosting the range of her enchantments.

A person can choose to not resist a magic spell. August did it when brandish was healing him!

I will choose the one who had the less ridiculous death. And both had a big ass ridiculous death.

Take a guess.

August! Seriously, that dude just said something about his dad not loving him and then decided to use a suicide attack which for some reason doesn't work if the user looks at his mother???

 

[**Silver**]

I don't think August can just go and Nullify for example a Deus Sema falling straight at him he might be able to Nullify the Damage it deals to him or would deal to him i give him that.
But i don't see him Nullyfing an ongoing Spell/Enchantment considering he would need to stop her from Casting then unless that's what you mean,but probably not judging by the Words you chose.

Nothing against Wank in here really this is mostly Fandom Wars so no one can really say that some Bias isn't included.Same goes for me.

yeah even Erza with broken bones destroyed this so called strong shitty meteor so the question is August weaker than Erza who has Broken bones??

 

[~Charging Lightning~]

"Caster-holder type magic". Wut??? Dragon slaying magic is a caster lost magic. Where are people getting this "caster-holder type" thing from? Such a thing does not exist.

Also why is there still a debate on whether or not august can copy DS magic? Why should he be incapable of copying it? Yes there are only two known methods of learning DSM (through a Dragon and through a lacrima) but that doesn't mean he can't copy it. Are we gonna say that he can't copy Gray's ice maker magic since August never trained his body to be imune to the cold like Gray did? Copying=/=Learning.

Anyway I think I'm deciding to go for August. Especially after reading the posts from @MLG Bradman.

 

[Jko]

"Caster-holder type magic". Wut??? Dragon slaying magic is a caster lost magic. Where are people getting this "caster-holder type" thing from? Such a thing does not exist.

Also why is there still a debate on whether or not august can copy DS magic? Why should he be incapable of copying it? Yes there are only two known methods of learning DSM (through a Dragon and through a lacrima) but that doesn't mean he can't copy it. Are we gonna say that he can't copy Gray's ice maker magic since August never trained his body to be imune to the cold like Gray did? Copying=/=Learning.

Anyway I think I'm deciding to go for August. Especially after reading the posts from @MLG Bradman.

Bcs Dragon Slayer magic comes from an external source which is what classifies as a holder magic. Humans can't naturally learn DSM they have to given the magic by a Dragon or Dragon Lacrima.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

No doubt, these two are equals especially when Irene is in her Dragon Form. All of their stats are more or less the same. But for tournament purposes, August is the winner here. I don't really have much to add since everything has been mentioned already but here is how I see the fight playing out. The left side are August's feats meanwhile the right side is how these feats would be used against Irene.

Spoiler

Spoiler: Blocking Deus Sema (with Barrier)

Spoiler: Escaping Claw Swipe

Spoiler: Reverting Irene Back to Human Form

Spoiler: Dodging Irene's Nukes

Spoiler: Finishing Irene Off

Basically, to sum it up, I do believe August can revert Irene. And because of that, he is likely superior to her with an overwhelming advantage in durability and speed. Everything else should remain the same.


I do want to weigh in on a few topics though.

Spoiler: Can August copy Dragon Slaying Magic?

Yes. I do believe he can. Dragon Slaying Magic is caster magic. It doesn't matter whether it is from a dragon or whether it is from a lacrima. One thing that many people seem to be confused about is when August says he can't copy without the material. What that means is that August can't copy something that is channeled though a material. However, it doesn't matter whether the power source started from a material or not. Perhaps this makes it a little clearer.

• Holder Magic = Magic → Object (Staff) → Used on Target
• DS Magic = Object (Lacrima) → Magic → Used on Target

The part in green is by definition, caster magic. The part in red is by definition, holder magic. As for the statement that DS magic can only be obtained from a dragon, it still holds true. By copying DS magic, August is still obtaining the power from a dragon (Irene), so that is not a violation of what the manga says.

Spoiler: How does Irene's Durability in her Human Form compare to her Dragon Form?

It should be weaker. While Irene is inherently a dragon, she doesn't retain their physique (physical properties) in her human form. This was made apparent when Irene said Erza could not damage her scales despite the fact that she already got injured by Erza in her human form.

Spoiler: Are Dragons immune to Non-DS Magic?

No. If that were the case, then Belserion would have mentioned it. Instead, he specifically stated that the power of a human pales in comparison to a dragon.

Spoiler: Bottom-Right Panel

This makes sense considering nobody was really able to damage a dragon during the GMG. The only advantage of dragon slaying magic is that it makes an attack more effective. Again, no immunity.

 

[EpicKralZ]

No one will win. They will both suicide at the same time.

Jokes Aside, August is pretty much faster and great scale of MP. Even tho Irene have Dragon Form with her. (She is still made out of Magic) aka Enchant. Papi August can still fight fairly and August will surely be victorious. August is scared of Acnologia because we all know his Magic is copying but hax. There is a difference between August's capability and hax. Papi August.