Final August vs Irene

[inactive lurker account]

A person can choose to not resist a magic spell. August did it when brandish was healing him!

I get that, but I still don't quite understand how it is that Irene in human form and Irene in dragon form would have different amounts of magic power, unless one assumes that the dragon form actively absorbs additional magic in the environment. What may be said is that Irene can better access the reserves she already has when in dragon form, thus making it look like she exudes more power. In order words, total power remains the same, but accessibility differs. And note I said that the transmutation spell is temporary and thus reversible, since Irene when enraged was freely able to transform into a dragon, and revert back into human form after being slashed. That said we don't really know the exact mechanisms of Zeref's spell...

This brings me to a rather interesting point. Now that I think about it, August vs Irene reminds me in many ways of Madara vs Hashirama in Naruto. August's copying ability is reminiscent of what the Sharingan and the Rinnegan can do, while Irene's enchantments are very much similar to sage mode... maybe my stance in favor of August partly reflects what I have seen in Naruto in that although Hashirama has naturally stronger physical stats, Madara after being resurrected was able to become superior by absorbing various other powers, including Hashirama's, and awakening his Rinnegan. Similarly, an optimized view of August would involve attributing to him various sorts of powers that would allow him to stand up to dragons barring Acnologia and Igneel

 

[Seven777]

Last Aegis worked on GMG Dragons, so yes, non DS magic is confirmed to work on dragons.

I'm sure August also needs to worry about her master enchentmants. Irene did some impressive enchentmants feats while being a high enchenter. Imagine her master enchentmants.

Master enchantment is only available to Dragon Eileen, who uses caster magic not holder. He can just let those Master Enchantments hit him without worry, and then maybe turn them against Eileen.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 16, 2017 ---

I am not saying that he can't but i just wonder about Deus Sema here really,i mean its basically a Giant Rock being drawn towards the Earth at his Location at that and the Impact of a Meteor is definitely huge Scale damaging, i mean he can't negate the Impact of a Meteor on the Earth it doesn't even have to hit him thats the Point.
But as i said i am not denying that he can't nullify the Damage it would have on him at all.

If that were the case Jellal wouldnt have been "out of options".

 

[Jko]

Last Aegis worked on GMG Dragons, so yes, non DS magic is confirmed to work on dragons.

Master enchantment is only available to Dragon Eileen, who uses caster magic not holder. He can just let those Master Enchantments hit him without worry, and then maybe turn them against Eileen.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 16, 2017 ---

If that were the case Jellal wouldnt have been "out of options".

Last Aegis rewinded time of the entire world for one second. That doesn't have anything to do with affecting a Dragon.

 

[Seven777]

Last Aegis rewinded time of the entire world for one second. That doesn't have anything to do with affecting a Dragon.

Last Aegis is magic, did the dragons get affected? Yes, so they are affected by magic.
Nowhere has it ever been said that dragons have any type of immunity magic, with examples like Last Aegis, Dragon Manipulation magic, Larcade's magic, etc, we can confirm that they are in fact, not.

 

[Jko]

Last Aegis is magic, did the dragons get affected? Yes, so they are affected by magic.
Nowhere has it ever been said that dragons have any type of immunity magic, with examples like Last Aegis, Dragon Manipulation magic, Larcade's magic, etc, we can confirm that they are in fact, not.

Last Aegis affects the flow of time not Dragons. Dragon Manipulation magic is DS magic. Larcade's magic only affected Irene in her human form.

 

[Seven777]

Last Aegis affects the flow of time not Dragons. Dragon Manipulation magic is DS magic. Larcade's magic only affected Irene in her human form.

Ha, affects the flow of time but not the dragons? Yeah well fire magic affects the flow of fire not the dragons, so it should work just fine.
Dragon Manipulation magic was created by Future Rogue, it wasnt enchanted onto him by a dragon, so it isnt DS magic.
I thought you said human Eileen was only affected by DS magic too? That aside, Zeref said it works on Acno.

 

[Jko]

Ha, affects the flow of time but not the dragons? Yeah well fire magic affects the flow of fire not the dragons, so it should work just fine.
Dragon Manipulation magic was created by Future Rogue, it wasnt enchanted onto him by a dragon, so it isnt DS magic.
I thought you said human Eileen was only affected by DS magic too? That aside, Zeref said it works on Acno.

Bcs affecting the flow of time is different then affecting a Dragon. She literally rewinded time itself a minute. That has nothing to do with bypassing the scales of a dragon. Fire magic affects people by burning them. Regular fire magic can't burn Dragons.

Future Rogue is already a DSM so he wouldn't be need to be enchanted by a Dragon to create a DS spell.

Human Irene can't be harmed by regular magic sure but she can be affected by indirect magic (especially when she doesn't put up a fight) like Dim's Timestop, Jacob's Transport, or Larcade's Desire Magic (It was stated his magic was able to a potential threat to Acno, and it did affect Zeref). Their magic doesn't deal with physical attacks like regular sword attacks (which Erza couldn't pierce through her skin with regular magic) or Invel's Ice attacks.

 

[Arjuna]

Well neither Last Ages nor Dragon manipulation magic is a DC type magic and it has nothing to do with penetrating the Dragon skin.And we have already seen non DS D.C. type magic have never penetrated a Dragon skin.

 

[Seven777]

Bcs affecting the flow of time is different then affecting a Dragon. She literally rewinded time itself a minute. That has nothing to do with bypassing the scales of a dragon. Fire magic affects people by burning them. Regular fire magic can't burn Dragons.

Future Rogue is already a DSM so he wouldn't be need to be enchanted by a Dragon to create a DS spell.

Human Irene can't be harmed by regular magic sure but she can be affected by indirect magic (especially when she doesn't put up a fight) like Dim's Timestop, Jacob's Transport, or Larcade's Desire Magic (It was stated his magic was able to a potential threat to Acno, and it did affect Zeref). Their magic doesn't deal with physical attacks like regular sword attacks (which Erza couldn't pierce through her skin with regular magic).

It is no different. The fact that its "time" that was affecting the dragons doesnt change the fact that that "time" was Ultears magic, and was unhindered by any form of immunity.
Ultear used magic and that magic was able to affect dragons, so the only question that needs to be asked in a human vs dragon fight is if their spells are powerful enough to make it through a dragons tough scales. Durability is all non-DS mages need to worry about when facing a dragon, not any form of immunity.

Well neither Last Ages nor Dragon manipulation magic is a DC type magic and it has nothing to do with penetrating the Dragon skin.And we have already seen non DS D.C. type magic have never penetrated a Dragon skin.

We've seen non DS weaklings being unable to penetrate a dragons skin. You forgetting that even with DS magic, fighters comparable to those who failed were still barely able to damage those same dragons.

If Dragon were truly immune to magic, then Zeref wouldnt have fought so hard to get FH, because even with that infinite power he would still be unable to land so much as a scratch on Acnologia.

 

[Jko]

It is no different. The fact that its "time" that was affecting the dragons doesnt change the fact that that "time" was Ultears magic, and was unhindered by any form of immunity.
Ultear used magic and that magic was able to affect dragons, so the only question that needs to be asked in a human vs dragon fight is if their spells are powerful enough to make it through a dragons tough scales. Durability is all non-DS mages need to worry about when facing a dragon, not any form of immunity.

We've seen non DS weaklings being unable to penetrate a dragons skin. You forgetting that even with DS magic, fighters comparable to those who failed were still barely able to damage those same dragons.

If Dragon were truly immune to magic, then Zeref wouldnt have fought so hard to get FH, because even with that infinite power he would still be unable to land so much as a scratch on Acnologia.

Yes it is different. Affecting the flow time is like affecting reality itself as that's how time works. By rewinding time she just moved time back which made everything within that one go back before the one minute. It has nothing to do with affecting Dragons. It's just rewinding time. You think Dragons wouldn't be rewinded as well?

Zeref's entire plan was to go back in time so Acno never achieved power in the first place. It's not like he tried to blast Acno with time magic (like he did with Natsu), and it worked.

 

[Arjuna]

It is no different. The fact that its "time" that was affecting the dragons doesnt change the fact that that "time" was Ultears magic, and was unhindered by any form of immunity.
Ultear used magic and that magic was able to affect dragons, so the only question that needs to be asked in a human vs dragon fight is if their spells are powerful enough to make it through a dragons tough scales. Durability is all non-DS mages need to worry about when facing a dragon, not any form of immunity.

We've seen non DS weaklings being unable to penetrate a dragons skin. You forgetting that even with DS magic, fighters comparable to those who failed were still barely able to damage those same dragons.

If Dragon were truly immune to magic, then Zeref wouldnt have fought so hard to get FH, because even with that infinite power he would still be unable to land so much as a scratch on Acnologia.

Well if this very easy then humanity would not have been pushed to the brink of extinction 400 years ago.It was only after DS Magic was invented that the tide turned.Mages from 400 years were strong,atleast much stronger than GMG mages.


And don't forget Zeref never intended to fight Acnologia in this era with FH.He intended to kill him before he turned into a Dragon in the past.

 

[Seven777]

Yes it is different. Affecting the flow time is like affecting reality itself as that's how time works. By rewinding time she just moved time back which made everything within that one go back before the one minute. It has nothing to do with affecting Dragons. It's just rewinding time. You think Dragons wouldn't be rewinded as well?

Zeref's entire plan was to go back in time so Acno never achieved power in the first place. It's not like he tried to blast Acno with time magic (like he did with Natsu), and it worked.

Affecting reality itself? You say that like it means something, it doesnt. Even if the spell literally did affect reality, it doesnt change the fact that it is a spell, and thus is magic. If you are affected by magic, reality changing or otherwise, then you are not immune to magic.

If Dragons were immune to magic then they wouldnt have been rewound, they'd just watch as everyone else got rewound, because rewinding time was magic, and if they were immune to magic they wouldnt have been affected by it.

You cant just make up exceptions dude, reality warping, time altering, doesnt matter, you are either immune to magic, or you're not.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 16, 2017 ---

Well if this very easy then humanity would not have been pushed to the brink of extinction 400 years ago.It was only after DS Magic was invented that the tide turned.Mages from 400 years were strong,atleast much stronger than GMG mages.


And don't forget Zeref never intended to fight Acnologia in this era with FH.He intended to kill him before he turned into a Dragon in the past.

Wasnt just one dragons pushing humanity to the brink of extinction, there were hundreds and thousands. Gaining DS magic made an army of useless weaklings capable of doing some damage, thats what turned the tide and even then they didnt actually beat the dragons themselves, they did it together with Dragons of their own.

Mages from 400 years ago could have all been a bunch of weaklings, and even if they were up to snuff with GMG mages, where would that get them? GMG Dragon Slayers were still too weak to take out anyone.
The strongest GMG mage at the time was Jura, who was weaker than Laxus, who together with Wendy could barely even damage friggin Zirconis. You could have a thousand GMG tier mages and it'd still be a waste of time, because even the strongest GMG wizard, with Dragon Slayer advantage, while enchanted by Wendy, who also had DS advantage, was still incapable of pushing a single dragon past low diff.

 

[Arjuna]

Affecting reality itself? You say that like it means something, it doesnt. Even if the spell literally did affect reality, it doesnt change the fact that it is a spell, and thus is magic. If you are affected by magic, reality changing or otherwise, then you are not immune to magic.

If Dragons were immune to magic then they wouldnt have been rewound, they'd just watch as everyone else got rewound, because rewinding time was magic, and if they were immune to magic they wouldnt have been affected by it.

You cant just make up exceptions dude, reality warping, time altering, doesnt matter, you are either immune to magic, or you're not.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 16, 2017 ---

Wasnt just one dragons pushing humanity to the brink of extinction, there were hundreds and thousands. Gaining DS magic made an army of useless weaklings capable of doing some damage, thats what turned the tide and even then they didnt actually beat the dragons themselves, they did it together with Dragons of their own.

Mages from 400 years ago could have all been a bunch of weaklings, and even if they were up to snuff with GMG mages, where would that get them? GMG Dragon Slayers were still too weak to take out anyone.
The strongest GMG mage at the time was Jura, who was weaker than Laxus, who together with Wendy could barely even damage friggin Zirconis. You could have a thousand GMG tier mages and it'd still be a waste of time, because even the strongest GMG wizard, with Dragon Slayer advantage, while enchanted by Wendy, who also had DS advantage, was still incapable of pushing a single dragon past low diff.

And there could be hundreds of thousands of humans much more than the Dragons.And all the mages we have seen from 400 years ago are strong in their respective fields-Zeref,Acnologia,Irene and Anna.

So there could be thousands of strong mages but still failed to defeat a Dragon.

 

[Jko]

Affecting reality itself? You say that like it means something, it doesnt. Even if the spell literally did affect reality, it doesnt change the fact that it is a spell, and thus is magic. If you are affected by magic, reality changing or otherwise, then you are not immune to magic.

If Dragons were immune to magic then they wouldnt have been rewound, they'd just watch as everyone else got rewound, because rewinding time was magic, and if they were immune to magic they wouldnt have been affected by it.

You cant just make up exceptions dude, reality warping, time altering, doesnt matter, you are either immune to magic, or you're not.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 16, 2017 ---

Wasnt just one dragons pushing humanity to the brink of extinction, there were hundreds and thousands. Gaining DS magic made an army of useless weaklings, capable of doing some damage, they turned the tide because of numbers.

Mages from 400 years ago could have all been a bunch of weaklings, and even if they were up to snuff with GMG mages, where would that get them? GMG Dragon Slayers were still too weak to take out anyone.
The strongest GMG mage at the time was Jura, who was weaker than Laxus, who together with Wendy could barely even damage friggin Zirconis. You could have a thousand GMG tier mages and it'd still be a waste of time, because even the strongest GMG wizard, with Dragon Slayer advantage, while enchanted by Wendy, who also had DS advantage, was still incapable of pushing a dragon like Zirconis past low diff.

Affecting the fabric of time is not something that can be stopped via power. It can only be resisted by people who have shown time counters or resistance. Going back in time, rewinding time, stopping time, and fast forwarding time are all moves that can affect reality itself. She altered time to go back one minute which made everything go back. Affecting time has nothing to do with hurting Dragons or bypassing their scales. They are still immune to affects of Magical attacks as only DS magic can hurt them.

 

[Seven777]

And there could be hundreds of thousands of humans much more than the Dragons.And all the mages we have seen from 400 years ago are strong in their respective fields-Zeref,Acnologia,Irene and Anna.

So there could be thousands of strong mages but still failed to defeat a Dragon.

But how many of those humans are actually soldiers? Could actually fight? Could even use magic? Maybe there were more humans than Dragons, but how many more human combatants were there?

Sure, there were powerful mages back then, doesnt mean there were LOTS of powerful mages back then.
We have never seen a dragon fight someone equal to them, only opponents FAR weaker, so them not being damaged when faced with comparatively fodder opponents, is hardly an excuse to claim they are immune to magic.

Humans being unable to beat dragons 400 years ago doesnt really mean much, other than that they were too weak to do it. We've seen mages like August, God Serena and Jacob wipe out an entire country in a few days, we have wizards like Brandish being called a "Nation Breaker".
Replace those hundreds and thousands of dragons 400 years ago, with hundreds and thousands of "Nation Breakers" and the humans of that time would be just as helpless.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 16, 2017 ---

Affecting the fabric of time is not something that can be stopped via power. It can only be resisted by people who have shown time counters or resistance. Going back in time, rewinding time, stopping time, and fast forwarding time are all moves that can affect reality itself. She altered time to go back one minute which made everything go back. Affecting time has nothing to do with hurting Dragons or bypassing their scales. They are still immune to affects of Magical attacks as only DS magic can hurt them.

Of course it can, the "fabric" of time was easily overpowered by END.
Like i said before, either you are immune to magic, or you are not. If you are affected by magic, then you are not immune to it.

 

[Jko]

But how many of those humans are actually soldiers? Could actually fight? Could even use magic? Maybe there were more humans than Dragons, but how many more human combatants were there?

Sure, there were powerful mages back then, doesnt mean there were LOTS of powerful mages back then.
We have never seen a dragon fight someone equal to them, only opponents FAR weaker, so them not being damaged when faced with comparatively fodder opponents, is hardly an excuse to claim they are immune to magic.

Humans being unable to beat dragons 400 years ago doesnt really mean much, other than that they were too weak to do it. We've seen mages like August, God Serena and Jacob wipe out an entire country in a few days, we have wizards like Brandish being called a "Nation Breaker".
Replace those hundreds and thousands of dragons 400 years ago, with hundreds and thousands of "Nation Breakers" and the humans of that time would be just as helpless.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 16, 2017 ---

Of course it can, the "fabric" of time was easily overpowered by END.
Like i said before, either you are immune to magic, or you are not. If you are affected by magic, then you are not immune to it.

END overpowered time stop because he has resistance to it, and Natsu has shown the ability to burn through the fabric of time itself as well. And like I said Last Aegis did not affect the Dragons as you're putting it. Did it harm the Dragons in anyway? No it didn't, and it wasn't even an attack spell. Dragons can still be affected by the nature's of reality lile people distorting space (U1) or time (Last Aegis). It still doesn't mean they can be harmed. They are immune to magic that directly try to attack them not the laws of reality themselves.

 

[Seven777]

END overpowered time stop because he has resistance to it, and Natsu has shown the ability to burn through the fabric of time itself as well. And like I said Last Aegis did not affect the Dragons as you're putting it. Did it harm the Dragons in anyway? No it didn't, and it wasn't even an attack spell. Dragons can still be affected by the nature's of reality lile people distorting space (U1) or time (Last Aegis). It still doesn't mean they can be harmed. They are immune to magic that directly try to attack them not the laws of reality themselves.

END overpowered the timestop cause he had power, as Dimaria said. Eileen doesnt have "time resistance" can she resist Age Seal?
No, Last Aegis did affect dragons as i put it, i never said Last Aegis damaged them, all i ever said was that it affected them and if magic affects them, they obviously arent immune to it.
Nature of reality? You cant just make up terms and give them as a reason. Last Aegis is magic, U1 is magic, if dragons are affected by them, then they are affected by magic.
Dragons scales are tough, thats why offensive magic has trouble injuring them, it has nothing to do with immunity.

Acnologia was harmed by Christina's bullets, dragons can be harmed despite their scales strength, the only issue is power.

 

[Jko]

END overpowered the timestop cause he had power, as Dimaria said. Eileen doesnt have "time resistance" can she resist Age Seal?
No, Last Aegis did affect dragons as i put it, i never said Last Aegis damaged them, all i ever said was that it affected them and if magic affects them, they obviously arent immune to it.
Nature of reality? You cant just make up terms and give them as a reason. Last Aegis is magic, U1 is magic, if dragons are affected by them, then they are affected by magic. Dragons scales are tough, thats why offensive magic has trouble injuring them, it has nothing to do with immunity. Dragons were never stated to be immune to magic and i have yet to see an argument explaining why they would be

Acnologia was harmed by Christina's bullets, dragons can be harmed despite their scales strength, the only issue is power.

No it wasn't power. Psuedo END wasn't even stated to have high MP at all either. He just negated through resistance.

Nature of reality is basically the laws of physics. It's just a coined term. But the thing is the magic still doesn't penetrate their scales. The magic can't hurt therefore it doesn't affect them. Only DS magic can hurt them. Pushing a Dragon away or resetting time doesn't do anything to them, and those two magic deal with entirely different spectrums of Magic than what you're thinking. U1 is a type of compression magic that can compress a continent and distort reality. Last Aegis rewinds time altogether. These aren't magic that hurt Dragons. They don't directly affect them as the magic wasn't made to affect them. They are made to affect time/space themselves, and the Dragons don't just have negation magic to stop the magic from doing that. Only Acno is the Dragon of Magic too so it's not like other Dragons can just eat any type of element like can either.

 

[Ebony Maw]

I don't think Acno was trying to dodge that, there was no need for him to dodge an attack from Jellal. Think of it this way, If a small fly is going to crash on to you would you stand still or would you dodge it? Dodging it would be a waste of energy. Acno didn't want to waste his energy

He didn't have time to dodge:

Spoiler

He saw Meteor Jellal coming towards him, but before he could even turn his head back Jellal had already zipped up and then zipped down to hit him. As we can see in the panels above, Acno was still looking where Jellal initially came from when he got hit.

 

[Seraph]

yeah even Erza with broken bones destroyed this so called strong shitty meteor so the question is August weaker than Erza who has Broken bones??

Of Course Erza with Broken Bones is stronger then the "Magic King" August i don't even see how that's a question.
Don't forget while August may be the "Magic King" she is the "Queen of Nakama's"