Discussion Goku vs Superman

[Sherlock Holmes]

Wait, so in Goku v. Superman...Batman wins? I like this. I like that a lot.

So do I my friend, so do I!

Batman(with enough prep time)>Universe!

 

[SuperSaiyan4]

Here's one way to conclude this debate. Neither creators of Dragonball or Superman considered the laws of physics or any principle that abides to mathematics or physics of this world. Moreover, Goku and Superman lived in completely two different universes. Thus, what applied to Goku's or Superman's Earth does not apply to the world we live in, so we can't really look at Gotenk's feat in travelling around the Earth 9 times in a minute the same way we would look at the feat in our own world (ALSO, the word "around," can be interpreted as gotenks circled around the equator 9 times, or that he visited every where/covered the entire surface of earth 9 times, or whatever so we can't really put much store on what was said in the manga anyways).

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is, we can't compare two things when there are so many different variables involved that could suggest almost anything. There is not a single universal constant based on which we can make logical mathematic/algebraic/physical comparisons between Goku and Superman that could yield a reliable conclusion on who's stronger. Unless the two creators agree and decide to switch the two guys' places and have them fight each other's villains, I don't think we can come up with a "correct" answer.

 

[Lelo]

ROFL, I cant believe theirs this thread. If I had to choose it would be Superman, I never got into Drangonball so I cant really speak

 

[Weapon_X]

LMAO! Goku would pawn Superman's ass downtown. He would beat him so badly. Goku has no disadvantages, with Superman you show the Green kryoponite and he'll be on the floor having a fit.

 

[Drmke]

Here's one way to conclude this debate. Neither creators of Dragonball or Superman considered the laws of physics or any principle that abides to mathematics or physics of this world. Moreover, Goku and Superman lived in completely two different universes. Thus, what applied to Goku's or Superman's Earth does not apply to the world we live in, so we can't really look at Gotenk's feat in travelling around the Earth 9 times in a minute the same way we would look at the feat in our own world (ALSO, the word "around," can be interpreted as gotenks circled around the equator 9 times, or that he visited every where/covered the entire surface of earth 9 times, or whatever so we can't really put much store on what was said in the manga anyways).

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is, we can't compare two things when there are so many different variables involved that could suggest almost anything. There is not a single universal constant based on which we can make logical mathematic/algebraic/physical comparisons between Goku and Superman that could yield a reliable conclusion on who's stronger. Unless the two creators agree and decide to switch the two guys' places and have them fight each other's villains, I don't think we can come up with a "correct" answer.

Or.....We could just say Goku would kick his ass cause Superman is strong, but Goku can keep getting stronger with crap like Super Saiyan and what not.

No need to bring science into an entertainment thread

 

[Kusachu]

I'm still all, Batman FTW. But I would bet on Goku. If he can't do it, no one can. Plus, if Doomsday can haz superpwn on Superman, then someone else has to be able to, and that man is Goku.

Now for the Goku vs. Doomsday debate...

Nah.

 

[Weapon_X]

Goku would pawn any living creature and any manga character, marvel character, DC character, anyone. Even a death note wouldn't work on him. Just his own SS Aura would destroy the Earth.

 

[Black Lagoon]

It's obvious, no one can defeat Goku, he will just kick their ass's all and every single one, Chichi is the only one who could stop him

 

[Tsubasa Arisato]

Goku will win. We all know that. =P

 

[Asahina]

I know this thread is old, but it seems like the right time to revive it.

I've read this from yahoo question site:

It depends on what incarnation of Superman we take for the battle. Superman generally has three different incarnations: Superman from live-action films, Superman from animated media and Superman from the comics.

To generalize their power level, Superman of films < Superman from animation < Superman from comics.

If we take Superman from the first two media, he'll go down hard against SS1 Goku, and since this is SS4 Goku, I think it's rather overkill.

This leaves us with the Superman as he appeared in the comics. In his long history of over fifty years, Superman has shown feats of incredible speed, strength and durability that not even the strongest character from the Dragonball universe can replicate.

Superman from the comics also has a number of 'version' of him, which are basically his counterparts from alternate dimensions. Some of the strongest versions are called Earth-One/Pre-Crisis/Silver Age Superman, Superman Prime One Million and Superman-Prime/Superboy-Prime. The current canon version is referred to as Post-Crisis Superman

Here's a list of facts that will help you realize exactly how strong each of the two characters are:

Strength
Goku:
- He was lifting around 2 tonnes on his finger in Dragonball.
- In DBZ he was struggling with 40 tonnes, and was exhausted by that much weight after his transformation.
Now no matter how much anyone wants to argue with the numbers, it can be clearly proved with this example that they aren't an accurate determinant of the character's capacities. By power level he should be able to lift somewhere around 150000 tonnes, but Akira Toriyama says otherwise. Almost every other notable feat is a filler.
- In DBGT, he was maxed out at lifting a part of a city (Even though it's non-cannon, that's the best we've seen him do).

Superman:
- Post Crisis Superman is said to be able to lift 40 Billion tonnes in base form. A sundip in the sun for one hour multiplied his powers to the point that was able to single-handedly oppose Imperiex-Powered Brainiac. Imperiex is a nigh-omnipotent being capable of destroying the universe with ease.
- All Star Superman can lift 200 Quintillion tonnes of weight. Even if we allow one ton for one power unit of Goku, he's still not lifting 200 Quin. tonnes, and we know that his strength isn't linear to his power level, since he was maxed out at 40 tonnes at SSJ.
- Pre Crisis Superman has displaced a whole SOLAR SYSTEM of planets chained together from one side of the universe to the other, with one arm, and he was smiling while doing it.
- Once, Pre-Crisis Superman literally destroyed a whole ****ing Solar System with a ****ing sneeze! This is not a joke, in case you're wondering.

Speed
First off, people need to understand the difference between teleportation and speed. Goku has IT and it's a cool ability, yes, but that doesn't mean the character is faster. When it comes to battle, it's about how fast the fighter can actually move and hit, and not that he could travel from one point to the other in less time. There are a lot of teleportation users in DCU, but that doesn't mean they're faster than The Flash by default. In fact, Flash is one of the fastest being in DCU.

Goku:
- FTL because he can dodge energy beams/attack that are lightspeed. (Probably the only feat I've been seeing, and it's not very credible either, since I've seen Batman avoid rifles, but I don't go on saying he's twice the speed of sound.)
- Moves so fast he cannot be seen. That's a good feat but this isn't a solid proof that it's FTL, and neither is there any way to gauge this speed.
- Goten at SSJ canonically took 28 minutes to travel around earth "a few dozen times". Lightspeed is 7 times around Earth in less than a second, so obviously that's not even lightspeed.

Superman:
- Post-Crisis Superman himself said he limits his speed to 99% lightspeed in Earth's atmosphere, so as not to cause damage to the environment (Flash can go faster without damaging because he derives his power from the Speedforce).
- He has travelled to a galaxy to face Superboy-Prime which is around 2.5 million light years away in the time it took SBP to kill ~35 GLs (which is no more than a few minutes).
- His Superspeed is defined at everything around him seeming still to him.
- Has traveled to a galaxy 2.5 million light-years away and back within a matter of a few minutes.
- Pre-Crisis Superman was billions of times faster than light. He once moved to another galaxy to save a creature before the time it took Louis to blink.

Durability
Goku:
- He was hurt when hit by a rock at SSJ. It might be a filler, but I distinctly remember seeing a scan in which one character threw a rock at the other -in SSJ- which he evaded, clearly because he feared it would hurt him.
- He died at Cell's explosion. Adding to that, we have never seen him actually survive a planet-buster. This is a fact and not something that can be argued with.

Superman:
- Superman survived the collision of two Earth-sized planets without any real harm.
- Has held black holes in his hand.
- Superman actually escaped out of a double-black hole. That's a speed, strength, and durability feat.
- Absorbed the energy of a weapon that could, at the very least, wipe out half a galaxy.
- PC Superman took a Supernova, only to be dazed for a micro-second. Yeah, he said it out loud.
- Finally Superboy-Prime took a BIG BANG from point blank range, only to come out fine with tattered clothing! Not even a single scratch!

Energy Attacks/Miscellaneous powers

That's the part Goku's good at:
- There is a lot of speculation as to what Goku is capable of destroying with his blasts, but I refuse to believe anything without a solid proof, which should be something that is not solely based on power levels.
- The best we've actually seen a DBZ character do is destroy a planet. At his prime, Goku is probably a multiple-planet buster, but fact remains that no DBZ character has actually done that.
There is a part where Brolly destroys a galaxy in the movies, but there was a dispute as to whether it was destroyed over a period of time, and later it was revealed to have not been destroyed fully.
- People say Vegeta destroyed a planet in the Saiyans saga. That's a filler. It's worth is as much as me saying Vegeta hits on Chi Chi in Goku's absence. In other words, nothing. Don't bring it up.

Superman:
- Post-Crisis Superman's heat vision is said to be stronger than the core of the Sun. Brolly died when he was thrown at the surface of the Sun.
- Superman can possibly destroy a planet with his heat vision. Once, he expanded to the point that it covered the whole Earth to reheat it. Obviously Superman wasn't trying to destroy it, but if he'd wanted, he could've possibly vaporized it.
For people who think he can't destroy a planet at all, it's wrong. SBP has destroyed a planet by flying through its core. PC Superman can destroy a planet by 'blowing' it into the Sun, or even blowing the Sun to the Earth.
- Can literally become intangible. This means whatever energy attack you throw at him, it will pass right through him, and he can attack you whenever he pleases.
- Pre-Crisis Superman's heat vision is said to be 'hotter than the core of a hundred Suns' and 'hotter than the pits of hades'. He has used his HV to reignite stars and has fixed holes in the cosmos. If not anything else, his HV could at least block whatever Goku throws at him, not to mention SBP could simply go for instant lobotomy.

And finally, PC Superman and Superman-Prime are just too ridiculous. PC Superman has almost every superpower you can think of. I mean, Superman with hypnotism?! Yup, he's got it. Super-Math? Super-weaving? Check'd!
With the Sword Of Superman, he literally becomes omnipotent:
The sword formed during creation's Big Bang with an "S" logo emblazoned in its handle; this "Sword of Superman" floats around space for centuries until it finally comes into contact with Superman. When Superman grasps the sword, it begins to make him an all-powerful, all-knowing super deity.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/37815/899052-pc6os3_super.gif

Superman-Prime is stronger than even that. He's the strongest version of Superman...ever! Stronger than even SBP or PC Superman. He married the Queen of 5th Dimension (which made him omnipotent), read the Source Wall (gave him I-dunno how many powers), and sat in the Sun for 15000 years (One hour of Sundip makes takes him on a universal-scale, imagine 15000 years of energy). That guy literally became invulnerable, invincible. A god!
These versions of Superman are impervious to harm, and cannot be beaten at all.

Source: Answers|Yahoo

Now, I would like to point out that this is Goku vs. Superman.
Not Goku vs. SBP/PC Superman
Not Goku vs. Superman Prime

We are talking about Goku coming to visit Clark Kent at the "daily planet" to kick his ass.

Now, I understand how Superman has many different versions, but lets be fair here - Goku has ONE author. One Version. One Universe. One Woman.
- Superman is just some guy who doesn't even have an actual identity. The first author of Superman sold out his story to other storytellers cause he got bored with it.

 

[kkck]

Doesn't goku have the firepower to destroy a planet while using a negligible amount of his full power though? I mean, vegeta's galic gun was said to be capable of destroying earth and we know that by the time the frieza arc ended goku was at least quite literally 8000 times stronger. Then he got the ascended super saiyan thing which made him several times stronger to put it mildly, then there was the super saiyan two which should have made him unfathomably stronger and above that the super saiyan 3 which should increase his power several times from that already absurd level. The speed part is murkier though, not sure what to make of that. Anyways, I would think a kamekameha from goku should destroy superman without leaving a trace unless superman has the power to take a blast which should destroy several consecutive planets, galaxies or whatnot.....

 

[ZERO PHOENIX]

Batman would own both of them. Why? Cause he's THE BATMAN!

 

[shaheer]

super man and goku fights they get tired and wears off... Batman comes at the end(being sentieant and not stupid ly heroic and gets the job done) gives them both a finishing blow and sends them both to grannys super market where they packs the shopping of deaf old grannys with nefarious umbrellas.....
end of the story......
Zero Phoenix and I win .......

 

[Zatono]

I'm going to necro this thread, since it's not really gone anyway, and say that this is an obvious victory for Superman. Don't make me post feats <.<

 

[Asahina]

I think it's unfair to match Superman against Goku. Why? Cause Goku is the type of person who God may God would personally train because of Goku's pure goody heart. Superman doesn't have a pure heart; he is very good mannered but that's about it. Superman can always be evil if magic allows him to be. No kind of evil magic can't control or effect Goku.

If Superman isn't faster than Flash (a mere human), then he isn't gonna be faster than even Vegeta.

Maybe it would be better to match Superman with Cell, Kid Buu, Piccolo (Merged with Kami), Gohan (Power Boosted by Grand Supreme Kai), Goten (adult), Trunks (adult), Vegeta (ss4), Supreme Kai, Frieza's Older Brother, Demon King (Spits and you turn to stone). If anyone is 100% sure that Superman can survive after fighting these fighting prodigies, then please give me the details. I'll love to hear it.

I think it would be best to ask TORIYAMA Akira (Creator of Dragonball) and see what he says about who is the stronger.

 

[Jammin]

I think Goku is clearly the more powerful. But the X factor here is that Goku is...... kind-of a dope.

Not that Superman is known for his towering intellect but if he did something like say "Your shoes untied." or "Hey, what's that behind you!" in the middle of the fight Goku would probably be dumb enough to fall for it.....multiple times. So, though i think the smart money is on Goku, it's not like there are no chinks in his armor.

 

[kkck]

Doesn't superman have the knowledge of the 28 known galaxies and whatnot? I would think superman can school bulma as far as science goes lol. I would still think goku is the more powerful one though. Can superman destroy planets? That seems like a dificult feat even for the most overpowered versions of superman while in turn goku can do that on a whim.

 

[Zatono]

Pre-Crisis Superman has sneezed out a solar system and towed multiple planets on a chain, and these feats aren't exactly his high end ones either. Superman has flown so fast that he was destroying everything because of the sonic booms he was creating. Goku gets murdered by most incarnations of Superman.

---------- Post added at 03:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 PM ----------

I think it's unfair to match Superman against Goku. Why? Cause Goku is the type of person who God may God would personally train because of Goku's pure goody heart. Superman doesn't have a pure heart; he is very good mannered but that's about it. Superman can always be evil if magic allows him to be. No kind of evil magic can't control or effect Goku.

If Superman isn't faster than Flash (a mere human), then he isn't gonna be faster than even Vegeta.

Maybe it would be better to match Superman with Cell, Kid Buu, Piccolo (Merged with Kami), Gohan (Power Boosted by Grand Supreme Kai), Goten (adult), Trunks (adult), Vegeta (ss4), Supreme Kai, Frieza's Older Brother, Demon King (Spits and you turn to stone). If anyone is 100% sure that Superman can survive after fighting these fighting prodigies, then please give me the details. I'll love to hear it.

I think it would be best to ask TORIYAMA Akira (Creator of Dragonball) and see what he says about who is the stronger.

I'm sorry, but you've no idea what you're talking about.

 

[786gangs]

Pre-Crisis Superman has sneezed out a solar system and towed multiple planets on a chain, and these feats aren't exactly his high end ones either. Superman has flown so fast that he was destroying everything because of the sonic booms he was creating. Goku gets murdered by most incarnations of Superman.

---------- Post added at 03:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 PM ----------



I'm sorry, but you've no idea what you're talking about.

Well broly destroyed a whole galaxy in a few seconds and goku defeated him in sjj1. And if superman fight to his max most of the time on earth, using his crazy abilities while goku doesn't do this. For example, in cell saga goku did was going to do a Kamehameha wave which could of easily destroyed the earth but he transported into a different angle preventing it from destroying earth. Goku can easily destroy any galaxy if he wanted to.

 

[Gats]

Well broly destroyed a whole galaxy in a few seconds and goku defeated him in sjj1. And if superman fight to his max most of the time on earth, using his crazy abilities while goku doesn't do this. For example, in cell saga goku did was going to do a Kamehameha wave which could of easily destroyed the earth but he transported into a different angle preventing it from destroying earth. Goku can easily destroy any galaxy if he wanted to.

lol I can't believe I discovered this thread just now.

This was a mistranslation. The japanese version simply stated that he attacked this South Galaxy. The Galaxy disappearing was just a metaphor, just to say it's in danger. Besides Goku teleported there just afterwards, so no, the Galaxy has not been destroyed.

I'm surprised no one posted this video (nerd explanation + the video fight itself at the end, they took SSJ4 Goku into account because Superman has too many sources/authors and...well you'll see).
Even though they might screwed up a bit the math, it doesn't change the core thing since the gap in power is so big.

Also have in mind that :

"The animated sequence is a representation of the data and information gathered and is only shown for entertainment value. The final result is in no way affected by the actions taken by the characters durning the fight. Regardless of the action, the winner would still be the same."

Anyway enjoy (try to not rage if you don't like the result ). I advise you to watch the whole video, not just the fight, the explanation part is well done).