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Aye she part of here now lolThe fact Wendy needs Irene is proof she doesn’t belong in the group.
Natsu
Jellal
Mira
Kiria
Aye she part of here now lolThe fact Wendy needs Irene is proof she doesn’t belong in the group.
Natsu
Jellal
Mira
Kiria
Got a good chuckle out of me.So at this point Natsu is obviously one of the strongest characters in the series, and without a doubt the strongest fighter in this group.
If we talking bloodlusted, and as crazy as Natsu is, with his sheer dragon force firepower that has multi-mountain level aoe he would probably blast the entirety of the group. So Natsu is an obvious choice, and the rest is who manages to survive his onslaught lol. Its weird praising Natsu's power this much since im kind of a hater
Mimi, Freed and Kiria are non factors for me. There is only so much Freed can do with his Jutsu Shiki and even that can get overwhelmed with power alone. But if you think about it he can still get tricky with it, if he sets certain conditions that would activate if someone would break his formulas. Mimi is just no.
Now Jellal, Mira, Wendy and Jacob. Thats a pretty interesting lineup of characters here. Wendy with her enchantments + Irene, is broken. Since Alvarez, this series established that enchantment magic is one of the most op and broken things you can have since it can do basically anything you wish. But, while Wendy would be to do some real damage, even stripping someone of his powers making them useless, she has only one shot at it. After that she wont be able to access Irene's power for a while. So in theory, with Irene, she should be able to "defeat" anyone on the list, making them useless in a magic fight, but with the power output, she can do that only against one character i think. From what ive seen she does not have the stamina to keep on destroying fools with Irene's powers, nor does soul Irene have the power to keep Wendy fighting at this level.
Mira is pretty dangerous, but not with her macro which is pretty outdated imo. Its her sheer power and speed, which some say can be compared to Erza. While i dont think she is at Erza's level, she definitely is close. But what Mira lacks is stamina when she is using her strongest moves. Her Alegria form is basically a one move deal, kinda like Erza's Nakagami armor. After that she needs a bit of time to regain her power. Time that she obviously cant have in this battle royal. So in this fight, she would probably stick with her base Satan soul, or maybe go Sitri. With that she should be able to outlast more.
Jellal is an interesting case to talk about. As Jko the Jello Hater always loves to point out, without guarding he can actually get KOed by a blast on Neinhart's level ( albeit its Spriggan MP level which some would still argue to be one of the highest MP in the series and onwards) + anchor and giant chains obviously as deadly as the stairs in One Piece.
Lets say this is the case and he he can get one shotted by something like that while unguarded, i would still say that he compensates this rather easily with his magic alone. He is one of the most versatile characters in the seires, one of the fasted in the series, and has also ridiculous firepower, and his magic defense is also nothing to laugh about since it can block Acnologia's i assume killing blow against Wendy. I want to believe that he would be one of the characters in this fight that could survive Natsu's onslaught, being able to avoid it rather easily with his speed and even counterattacking with his nukes from up above.
Jacob is the most interesting case here. His MP is one of the greatest in the series, and we are talking about a bloodlusted Jacob, no time for idiotic virgin eyes, just business Jason Statham style. I dont see anyone preventing him from going just Stealth + Transport, i guess anyone except DF Natsu whose aoe firepower would render his Stealth kinda useless. And even Wendy, since Irene would probably warn Wendy about Jacob and would give her the knowledge to enchant herself to counter transport. The only way Jellal is avoiding Transport would be with with a meteor dodge since its aoe isnt that big, its house level, or two or three houses. From what weve seen the radius of Transport went outside the guild. I guess Mira would also be able to dodge with her speed i think, plus she can fly, but then she would be a target for Jellal who can also fly and is speedy, even more so than her.
This would really be a clusterfuck lol.
So one scenario would go like this:
Natsu would probably go apeshit DF multi-mountain level aoe fire out of the gate and would damage or oneshot Mimi, Freed, Kiria, and maybe even Mira and Jacob, more likely Jacob than Mira, since i guess she would have the speed to dodge it i think. Jellal would meteor dodge it and block a small part of the attack with his magic defense, just so that he can fully escape it. Wendy + Irene i guess could offset part of the attack with enchantment since like i said enchantments can basically do anything lol, but it would take a lot out of Wendy, to the point where Irene's powers would be fully drained. So she should be an easy target after that. So Natsu, Jellal, Mira and Wendy
Another scenario:
We should ask ourselves how long does it take for Natsu to go full power DF. Like it takes a little bit of time, time that would be beneficial for speedy characters like Jellal and Mira, for Jacob to clap, and for Wendy+ Irene to split him off his powers. As shown in 100YQ, Natsu can get trashed if he still in base. So Jellal, Mira, Wendy and Jacob.
I'll have to think about it more.
Jacob BFR´s his ass awayFreed and Jacob over Jellal and Kyria?
What do you mean you don't need to? You made a claim so backup your claim. Him being a dragon is still > her not as a dragon.Don't need to, to argue Selene has better spell power. Selene has 100% of her MP, which should be comparable to 100% of peak Aldo's MP
Aldo towards the end probably had like 15% of his MP left.
Even accounting for buff from dragon transformation, the nerf was far too much
A giant wood dragon the size of of a small country is still >>> 99% of the verse in durability.Sure. But his defence? Not so much, because the guy got nerfed to oblivion
Damage = energy density*volume - defence
He has more HP, but more volume and less defence, and hence takes more damage from attacks.
Ok what? He isn't going to get smaller. He is still going to be the exact same size.With zero MP, the character turns into a "normal" version of themselves. In some cases, they get sick and die. In other cases, not really. Merc for eg.
Anyway, I bought up zero MP to demonstrate a point about stats being affected with magic power. With zero MP, Natsu gets reduced to a normal human soldier level.
With zero MP, Aldo dragon gets reduced to a large island sized mass, with none of the thickness or durability inherent to Aldo the God dragon.
Zero MP is kinda relevant here, because arguably Natsu blew through dragon Aldo at the point the final God seed got offed and reduced to a brief spectre. With no god seeds left, dragon Aldo has zero MP.
That's not even what he said. He just said they were nerfed and she isn't. However, Aldoron wasn't as nerfed as Merc was so that comparison is vague at best.He was commenting about how she's above both his nerfed self and nerfed Aldo. That was clearly the implication there.
"She different from both of us since she's intact with her full powers, while we both weren't"
This is clearly a comment about her magic power being above the other two.
But it isn't because beating someone with the power of a dragon still in tact (albeit nerfed) is still better than beating a human Selene.It is relevant because we are comparing attack powers of Suzaku and DF Natsu. Because I'm arguing that Suzaku cutting down full power human Selene is more impressive than DF Natsu destroying a heavily nerfed Aldo
Your scaling is faulty if that's all you rely on since you yourself admit to making assumptions about how nerfed he was.don't consider calcs to be the "be all" in fictions. My scaling here was purely based on scaling. Calcs is tedious and unreliable
But sure, I can offer a calc explanation.
We have to make some assumptions about stats here, since there isn't really any direct way to compare stats between Selene and Aldo. I suppose that's acceptable to you. If you heavily disagree with my numbers, let me know.
**************************************************
General formula of damage dealt
Damage dealt= (energy density - defence)*volume
Not completely accurate estimate, since defence has at least two distinct components - defence/(surface area), and average-defence/(volume of mass beneath surface). But for a rough estimate, this will do
***************************************************
I'll assume that dragon Aldo's HP got reduced to 15% his peak, during final battle with Natsu, because of:
- him waking up nerfed (which I assume to be 75% of his peak, I think that's reasonable)
- because of only 1 out of 5 God seeds being alive
The final attack DF Natsu used was multi city size in area. For the sake of argument, let's assume it to be 400km^2 in area and 20km in height, giving a volume of 8000km^3 in volume. I think it's a reasonable estimate, if you disagree let me know.
Volume hence becomes 8*10^12 m^3
The total damage dealt (TDD1) by DF Natsu's final attack = ( 15% durability of human Aldo) + x*(100% inherent durability of dragon Aldo) + damage needed to destroy normal land mass of the particular volume
Where x belongs to [0 ,0.15)
The variation of x is due to us not knowing how much of MP was left in dragon Aldo, when Natsu busted his body. This event happened after the event of the final attack landing on Aldo seed.
There is a reasonable chance that Aldo seed was completed off'd and reduced to a specter, before the Aldo dragon's body itself got destroyed by DF Natsu. Since it's logial to argue that if God seed Aldo didn't go down rom the attack, neither would have dragon Aldo.
In which case x becomes zero and Natsu basically busted just a huge mass of land.
Therefore, energy density of DF Natsu's final attack:
Energy_Density_DFNatsu = TDD1/Volume1 - defence_Aldo
Where:
Volume1 ~ 8*10^12 m^3
****************************************************
Now moving onto Suzaku vs human Selene:
Volume of human Selene = 0.07m^3
The actual volume of impact of Suzaku's slashes is much lesser, he cut multiple times on her upper body. Meaning, total volume < 0.035m^3.
Lets consider 0.03m^3
Total damage dealt (TDD2) by Suzaku's final attack = 100% of inherent durability of human Selene + damage needed to destroy normal human body = 100% inherent durability of human Selene
Therefore, energy density of Suzaku's attack:
Energy_Density_Suzaku = TDD2/Volume2 - defence_Selene
Where, Volume2 = 0.3m^3
*******************************************
For energy density of Suzaku's attack to be greater than energy density of DF Natsu
TDD1/Volume1 - defence_Aldo <= TDD2/Volume2 - defence_Selene
defence_Selene (per volume) is > defence_Aldo (per volume), since Selene is at 100%, while Aldo was massively nerfed.
Therefore:
TDD1/Volume1 <= TDD2/Volume2 - (defence_Selene - defence_Aldo) < TDD2/Volume2
TDD1/Volume1 < TDD2/Volume2
=>
TDD2 > TDD1 * Volume1/Volume2 = TDD1 * 0.03/(8 * 10^12)
=>
100% Selene's dura > TDD1 * (3.7 * 10^-15)
Where TDD1 > 15% of dura of dragon Aldo, as proven earlier
Unless you believe that 100% human Selene's durability is < 10^-15 times 15% durability of dragon Aldo, Suzaku definitely had a higher energy density,
And this is me being generous, and giving the 15%, which likely wasn't the case as I explained above
While Natsu likely had a significantly higher total energy output, the attack potency (energy density) of Suzaku's attack was far higher than that of DF Natsu
She's one of the Moonlit Beauty Gods, the one with brute strength, she fought Lucy, the weakest of the three in my opinion.Also, who the hell is Mimi? lmao
My argument is that Selene wasn't nerfed. She has 100% of her MP, while Aldo has a fraction. IMO Selene's spells should have higher potency, even accounting for Aldo's dragon formWhat do you mean you don't need to? You made a claim so backup your claim. Him being a dragon is still > her not as a dragon.
Yes. But DGs aren't 99% of the verse. They're God tiers of the verseA giant wood dragon the size of of a small country is still >>> 99% of the verse in durability
Yes, but with zero MP he becomes just a huge land mass. With his MP in tact, his dura >>> dura of a huge land massOk what? He isn't going to get smaller. He is still going to be the exact same size.
Ok, this is why I asked for calcs, you keep throwing around random numbers and expect me to eat it up. How nerfed do you think he got lmao?
I was paraphrasing.That's not even what he said. He just said they were nerfed and she isn't. However, Aldoron wasn't as nerfed as Merc was so that comparison is vague at best.
IT was a massive nerf towards the end. Otherwise I would've agreed.But it isn't because beating someone with the power of a dragon still in tact (albeit nerfed) is still better than beating a human Selene.
Which assumption do you disagree with?Your scaling is faulty if that's all you rely on since you yourself admit to making assumptions about how nerfed he was.
Yes, I believe that a wooden dragon (wood by itself is very sturdy) the size of Romania is > Human Selene.
AoE does not matter, some of the strongest attacks we've seen are the size of a small crater.
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He can off them any time he wants. Anyone trapped is in a state between life and deathI completely forgot about this.
@Kiki its says battlefield removal cant get you a win right? Jacob works on a brf principle, but he kills the brf-ed characters in his dimension. Would that kind of brf be allowed, because otherwise Jacob is useless here lol
Transport is allowedI completely forgot about this.
@Kiki its says battlefield removal cant get you a win right? Jacob works on a brf principle, but he kills the brf-ed characters in his dimension. Would that kind of brf be allowed, because otherwise Jacob is useless here lol
If she’s awake. Fight happens this very moment and it’s Wendy all alone. She gets dusted.Aye she part of here now lol
Eileen's powers was a one time thing. At this point, she's just a ghost giving her advice.Now Jellal, Mira, Wendy and Jacob. Thats a pretty interesting lineup of characters here. Wendy with her enchantments + Irene, is broken. Since Alvarez, this series established that enchantment magic is one of the most op and broken things you can have since it can do basically anything you wish. But, while Wendy would be to do some real damage, even stripping someone of his powers making them useless, she has only one shot at it. After that she wont be able to access Irene's power for a while. So in theory, with Irene, she should be able to "defeat" anyone on the list, making them useless in a magic fight, but with the power output, she can do that only against one character i think. From what ive seen she does not have the stamina to keep on destroying fools with Irene's powers, nor does soul Irene have the power to keep Wendy fighting at this level.
He had no visible injury from the blast, and was as good as new as soon as Kagura sucked out water from him. Which makes me believe the reason he got knocked out was because he ingested too much water under the force he got thrown into the seaJellal is an interesting case to talk about. As Jko the Jello Hater always loves to point out, without guarding he can actually get KOed by a blast on Neinhart's level ( albeit its Spriggan MP level which some would still argue to be one of the highest MP in the series and onwards) + anchor and giant chains obviously as deadly as the stairs in One Piece.
Lets say this is the case and he he can get one shotted by something like that while unguarded, i would still say that he compensates this rather easily with his magic alone. He is one of the most versatile characters in the seires, one of the fasted in the series, and has also ridiculous firepower, and his magic defense is also nothing to laugh about since it can block Acnologia's i assume killing blow against Wendy. I want to believe that he would be one of the characters in this fight that could survive Natsu's onslaught, being able to avoid it rather easily with his speed and even counterattacking with his nukes from up above.
At this point, IMO Natsu, Jellal and maybe Mira are strong enough to outright resist Jacob's hax.Jacob is the most interesting case here. His MP is one of the greatest in the series, and we are talking about a bloodlusted Jacob, no time for idiotic virgin eyes, just business Jason Statham style. I dont see anyone preventing him from going just Stealth + Transport, i guess anyone except DF Natsu whose aoe firepower would render his Stealth kinda useless. And even Wendy, since Irene would probably warn Wendy about Jacob and would give her the knowledge to enchant herself to counter transport. The only way Jellal is avoiding Transport would be with with a meteor dodge since its aoe isnt that big, its house level, or two or three houses. From what weve seen the radius of Transport went outside the guild. I guess Mira would also be able to dodge with her speed i think, plus she can fly, but then she would be a target for Jellal who can also fly and is speedy, even more so than her.
No way Wendy is surviving anything from DF Natsu. Jellal is the only one remotely standing a chance, because of his barriers and speed.So one scenario would go like this:
Natsu would probably go apeshit DF multi-mountain level aoe fire out of the gate and would damage or oneshot Mimi, Freed, Kiria, and maybe even Mira and Jacob, more likely Jacob than Mira, since i guess she would have the speed to dodge it i think. Jellal would meteor dodge it and block a small part of the attack with his magic defense, just so that he can fully escape it. Wendy + Irene i guess could offset part of the attack with enchantment since like i said enchantments can basically do anything lol, but it would take a lot out of Wendy, to the point where Irene's powers would be fully drained. So she should be an easy target after that. So Natsu, Jellal, Mira and Wendy
Natsu can instantly go FDKM tho. He can maintain FDKM until he activates DF, at which point everyone gets wrecked by him solo.Another scenario:
We should ask ourselves how long does it take for Natsu to go full power DF. Like it takes a little bit of time, time that would be beneficial for speedy characters like Jellal and Mira, for Jacob to clap, and for Wendy+Irene to strip him off his powers. As shown in 100YQ, Natsu can get trashed if he still in base. So Jellal, Mira, Wendy and Jacob.