Brandish isn’t relevant power wise. Laxus was on his deathbed and beat a Spriggan literally immune to him to death. His attacks throughout the fight should have only continuously amped his opponent and he only lost the upper hand when his body randomly took a time out to be sick on him. Brandish doesn’t walk away from the lightning blast that he opened with.
Her summons did, but they weren’t enough to keep Erza off her, and Laxus is both faster and more maneuverable. He also has more AOE options than Erza did, and she broke ol girl in a joke armor.
I believe Acno doesn't have desires except dragons extinguishing xd Also, even if it works on Acno, I think Larcade cant make a need so high so it would affect a dragon. Yeap, it needs magic power to apply, but I don't think it affects people's magic power. Just regular people's desires are too low compared to Dragons', especially Acno. If a dragon feels hunger as high as normal human may, it won't make a difference to him cuz his appetite is tiers above. So Larcade's hax won't work on dragons not because they are too powerful at magic, but because their bodies are on entirely different lvl. The same way I think he cant affect someone who doesn't need to sleep or eat (maybe demons don't need? I don't know). Well, I think you get my point
He wasn't hard countered. Sting just resisted his tentacles magic, thats literally all. Sting was affected by hunger and RIP. He resisted RIP with shadow, yes, but not to the point to call it hard counter. Before RIP, Sting got damaged so hard, I don't even get why he didn't die instantly there. You always says that Spriggans are all about haxes. So is Larcade. Sting resisted his tentacles - others could just destroy it. Sting resisted hunger - why cant others? Sting resisted sleep for some time before going into shadow - so may others. Sting was so weakened at that point, and still he beats him with a single attack. A highly doubt the same Sting could beat DeS Gray.
Sting countered all three of his main abilities:
- pleasure, because it's light magic
- hunger, because he ate Rouge magic
- sleep, because of shadow form
He was also immune to Larcade's only offensive magic - light magic.
So yea, Larcade got hard countered.
Larcade is hax too, but he is better than all Spriaggans except the three I mentioned in stats as well
About Silk being so powerful - twins took down Jiemma by Union Raid. Its not a single person attack. So it must be more powerful. And regardless of all it, Sting beat Larcade when he was already halfdead both physically and magically (maybe not magically, but physically - definitely).
Unison raid is basically two different magics synchronizing and combining to create a stronger magic.
Every dual elements attack is a unison raid. That's the reason dual elements mode is much more powerful compared to base mode. There is no difference between Rough Silk done by Sting or Future Rouge individually, or twin dragons doing it combined.
Sting got his MP restored by Rouge, so not magically.
Sting got physically weakened, but wasn't "half dead". He also got weakened physically, because Larcade injured him with his cross and other physical attacks. So no an excuse. Would've been an excuse had someone else damaged him physically
PS. Jiemma was stronger than other Gates, but Gates are utters trash. Sting nodiffs base Jiemma. Sting + Rogue with Union Raid beat demon Jiemma. I see no problem here at all
Why are you ignoring the context? For x791, demon gates certainly were powerful. Kyoua was stronger than non POF Erza, and Silver was arguably Laxus tier.
Obviously x792 Sting > demon gates. So what? x791 Sting doesn't win on his own, that's what matters. In x791, to take down top DGs and Jiemma, twin dragons need to use Rough Silk. Or else they get destroyed,
- x791 Rough Silk takes down x791 top tier character
- x792 Rough Silk takes down x792 top tier character
For their respective timelines, Rough Silk is consistently one of the most damaging moves. How is it hard to understand?
Brandish isn’t relevant power wise. Laxus was on his deathbed and beat a Spriggan literally immune to him to death. His attacks throughout the fight should have only continuously amped his opponent and he only lost the upper hand when his body randomly took a time out to be sick on him. Brandish doesn’t walk away from the lightning blast that he opened with.
Her summons did, but they weren’t enough to keep Erza off her, and Laxus is both faster and more maneuverable. He also has more AOE options than Erza did, and she broke ol girl in a joke armor.
This exactly.
Brandish was below even x792 top tier good guys. She isn't doing jack to anyone in x793. Laxus destroys her. At best she can survive for a while in giant form, but the moment it runs out, Laxus annihilates her
Youko's yokai transform is immune to anything except spirior. How does anyone here take her out?
Brandish isn’t relevant power wise. Laxus was on his deathbed and beat a Spriggan literally immune to him to death. His attacks throughout the fight should have only continuously amped his opponent and he only lost the upper hand when his body randomly took a time out to be sick on him. Brandish doesn’t walk away from the lightning blast that he opened with.
Her summons did, but they weren’t enough to keep Erza off her, and Laxus is both faster and more maneuverable. He also has more AOE options than Erza did, and she broke ol girl in a joke armor.
He beat Wall with an asspull in which he needed a year to obtain so no he didn't win at 10% power like you are implying. Secondly Wall's Eyherion outweighs any spell in FT bar DF Natsu's Secret Art: Purgatory. Third once Wall lost his immunity to lightning he became weak to it again. Fourth Brandish relevant, she literally made Gajeel strong enough to actually hurt Aldo's main body to the point it needed to rest after their fight. Kiria walked away from Laxus' random lightning blast, Kiria is borderline fodder compared to any mid tier S12 let alone a high tier one like Brandish. Fifth Laxus isn't doing jack squat to Aldo form Brandish nor is he surviving her even glancing his way. His strongest and biggest attack would be ant size to Aldo Brandish.
Bcs the entirety of Team Natsu and Lucy's spirits were holding them at bay and they were being enhanced by Wendy to actually touch them in the first place. Natsu has a f ton more AoE and he even had trouble with them so no Laxus' AoE is going to doing jack squat in this fight lol.
Laxus is also not faster than Erza. He got straight up blitzed twice by Erza before he could even react lmao.
A joke armor... that consumed most of her MP and could only be used to fight in fight in Elentir. Yeah, no, that armor did better than red pants which Youko was beating handily, an enhanced red pants at that.
Anyway, I was talking about the hypothetical of any of them versus Brandish.
Honestly, she would be a high priority considering they know how hax she is. In which case she gets taken out fast
In base, maybe, but if she goes Aldo size, only Laxus would be able to stand a chance in damaging her with pure stats. Plus, she threw her fight with Lucy, she significantly held back, the only thing we learned was that she has bad durability. In Aldo Form she should be a beast in pure stats considering what Gajeel accomplished at that size. Plus, Dimaria even said that she could have utterly stomped Lucy if she tried.
And no, command T isn't working on Rough Silk or Black Ash just because it worked on Lucy's attacks. Lucy's strongest attacks would have the same effect on Gray, Skullion, Sting etc as it did on Mira and Elfman - nothing, and this is when Lucy had star dress mix, something much stronger than anything she used against Brandish.
Rough Silk was an attack that defeated her superior. And Black Ash defeated x793 DeS Gray. To claim she nullifies them is NLF. Or else, give me a limit. At which point would command T stop working on attacks? You can't keep saying she nullifies everything with command T.
Do you also believe that she can maintain giant form for however long she wants, and 3 mins was "just the limit she set on Gajeel"?
You're looking at only her stats (which she was likely pulling all of her punches so looking at her stats in Lucy's fight is redundant), remember, her MP was high enough to terrify 792 Erza, in MP she should be able to use her Command T on anyone not named Laxus, you're completely ignoring her MP here and assuming that the likes of Sting and Skullion can beat her by stats alone.
I see no reason why she couldn't, she showed no signs of exhaustion from keeping Gajeel at Aldo size, this hints that it barely put any strain on Brandish, so, yeah, I think she could last a lot longer in Aldo Size than Gajeel, and you have to remember, she was holding back significantly against Lucy, she was only using enough power for Lucy to hang with her, unless you're implying that Lucy could defeat a serious Brandish.
Plus, three minutes in Aldo Size is likely all she needs to make it to the top four.
He did beat a high tier Spriggan, after rendering a good majority of his Magic utterly useless, and he didn't even beat Larcade alone. If anything, this goes against Larcade, he lost against a nerfed Sting, the only good feats he has is his hax and him blocking Kagura's blade, which I can see other Spriggans achieving the same thing, Kagura is far from Spriggan Tier.
1. Ok that's true, if Skullion isn't paying attention. But still I can grant this a possibility. It's debatable
2. That's because Skullion thought he already destroyed Gray and didn't pay attention
3. Sure
Where did she state that?
What's the limit? Can't be indefinite.
That was honestly BS. Gray's arms were ash, how TF did she return them to normal? She can manipulate size, but not regrow arms and organs. That still bothers me.
Command T works on magic. Which means against stronger magics, it has lesser effect.
Sting and Skullion are both at a higher level. Sting's dual mode was strong enough to defeat Larcade, the 3rd strongest Spriggan. Skullion matched x793 Mira and defeated x793 DeS Gray. Black ash defeated someone as strong as Gray
You can't say command T negs every attack. As with every magic, it's effectiveness is also dependent on how strong the enemy magic is. Skullion and Sting >>>> x792 Lucy
Or else give me a limit. I want to know how strong of a magic you think she can nullify.
Yes, it's obviously finite. But the duration is unknown, it depends on Brandish's MP and she is praised for her massive MP. If I had to guess, since 3 minutes was effortless for her I'd say she can at least go 15 minutes. But that's really just an assumption.
You keep saying Sting and Skullion are at a higher level and that's where we disagree, I think Brandish's the one that's at a higher level.
Sting only beat Larcade because he had a counter for every of his hax.
He was a virgin, he ate the light magic (and remember, the stronger your opponent is the stronger you get from eating their magic, so Sting got a pretty decent boost there), Rogue fed him when he got striked with Hunger and Kagura helped him use shadow to escape RIP. And the fact that he needed help to use the shadows is pretty much a feat against him since GMG Gajeel had no trouble mastering it by himslef instantly.
Sting ate both Larcade's magic and a whole lot of Rogue's magic, that's what made him strong enough to defeat Larcade. Now his dual mode is nowhere near that power.
Brandish easily bypassed Skullion's strongest spell while being far away. Clearly she's above him.
So I don't see why she can't use command T on their magic since she's above them both.
And about her stats that you claim are bad. She threw the fight against Lucy for show. However, in the beginning of the fight, she stopped Lucy Taurus kick without magic.
Later, Lucy Taurus's punch managed to put a hole in the wood golem, while Gajeel's mace didn't even put a dent in it.
So Brandish CQC stats > Taurus Lucy CQC stats > Gajeel CQC base stats.
Later, Lucy Taurus's punch managed to put a hole in the wood golem, while Gajeel's mace didn't even put a dent in it.
So Brandish CQC stats > Taurus Lucy CQC stats > Gajeel CQC base stats
Golems were nearly undestructible for everyone in place, like Gajeel, Mirajane, Elfman and co, even as team up.
Lucy could break a golem with her punch, then destroy it with mix dress only when the God Seed and his magic was weakened by Doom's defeat, like all the God Seeds by analogy.
He beat Wall with an asspull in which he needed a year to obtain so no he didn't win at 10% power like you are implying. Secondly Wall's Eyherion outweighs any spell in FT bar DF Natsu's Secret Art: Purgatory. Third once Wall lost his immunity to lightning he became weak to it again. Fourth Brandish relevant, she literally made Gajeel strong enough to actually hurt Aldo's main body to the point it needed to rest after their fight. Kiria walked away from Laxus' random lightning blast, Kiria is borderline fodder compared to any mid tier S12 let alone a high tier one like Brandish. Fifth Laxus isn't doing jack squat to Aldo form Brandish nor is he surviving her even glancing his way. His strongest and biggest attack would be ant size to Aldo Brandish.
First Wahl was trash to Laxus, Mashima needed to double nerf him just to make it a fight. He did win with %10 of his power, probably less.
Second Wahl's Etherion is featless, size=/=power.
Third Wahl never lost his immunity, Laxus overpowered it.
Fourth it's as much a feat for Gajeel as it is for Brandish. Aldo was nerfed, Gajeel just needed the size to compete.
Fifth Laxus oneshots Giant Brandish with a nuke to the face, he's also much faster so he could hit her before she goes giant. Kyria also beats Brandish 1v1 too.
Golems were nearly undestructible for everyone in place, like Gajeel, Mirajane, Elfman and co, even as team up.
Lucy could break a golem with her punch, then destroy it with mix dress only when the God Seed and his magic was weakened by Doom's defeat, like all the God Seeds by analogy.
Did Metro really grow weaker from Doom's defeat. I thought only God seed Aldoron got weaker from each God seed defeat.
Metro did not think to himself he got weaker, and FT members did not have a single panel of saying something like "they somehow grew weaker, let's do it Fairy Tail".
Furthermore, Jellal did not seem to think Gears got weaker either.
Imo the only reason FT managed to defeat Golems was that they just understood they had to put their back into it. After being thwarted, Gajeel switched from mace to a sword, which is why he managed to affect the Golems. You Can see Mira also started using bigger explosions.
All in all I do still think Taurus Lucy has a better punching power (and kicking) than Gajeel using a mace. And so it's a testament to Brandish's stats since she's above that. I do not claim Brandish is top tier stats, I just don't think she is glass canon.
In base, maybe, but if she goes Aldo size, only Laxus would be able to stand a chance in damaging her with pure stats. Plus, she threw her fight with Lucy, she significantly held back, the only thing we learned was that she has bad durability. In Aldo Form she should be a beast in pure stats considering what Gajeel accomplished at that size. Plus, Dimaria even said that she could have utterly stomped Lucy if she tried.
Yeah, I'm obviously talking about her regular size.
Sting, Rouge and Skullion cheese out her giant form. She passes her limit and returns to her normal form, after which either of them can beat her.
She threw the fight against Lucy. When did I deny that?
All I'm saying is that we have some idea about her stats from that fight. She is Lucy tier in many combat stats. Lucy managed to blitz her and injure her. Brandish threw in the sense that she didn't use her hax properly. Brandish has no better feat for physical stats
Gajeel has the natural stats that Brandish doesn't, he's a beast in physicals. You can't scale giant Gajeel to giant Brandish. Plus, giant Gajeel was about the get one shotted the moment Aldo got serious.
You're looking at only her stats (which she was likely pulling all of her punches so looking at her stats in Lucy's fight is redundant), remember, her MP was high enough to terrify 792 Erza, in MP she should be able to use her Command T on anyone not named Laxus, you're completely ignoring her MP here and assuming that the likes of Sting and Skullion can beat her by stats alone.
I see no reason why she couldn't, she showed no signs of exhaustion from keeping Gajeel at Aldo size, this hints that it barely put any strain on Brandish, so, yeah, I think she could last a lot longer in Aldo Size than Gajeel, and you have to remember, she was holding back significantly against Lucy, she was only using enough power for Lucy to hang with her, unless you're implying that Lucy could defeat a serious Brandish.
Plus, three minutes in Aldo Size is likely all she needs to make it to the top four.
Yea, it scared Natsu also. Typical hype in beginning of the arc. Yet everyone knows Natsu would murderstomp Brandish if he's serious. He goes FDKM and she's toast. He goes END and she becomes a carrot farmer. If you disagree even with this, let's just stop here cause we aren't on the same wavelength about even the baselines lol.
Team Natsu got shit scared by the MP of Spriggans, yet later they destroyed the Spriggans.
x792 top good guys > average Spriggan. With exceptions like Serena and Dimaria.
x793 top good guys > x792 top good guys.
By feats and portrayal, the Dragon Eaters trio are above the average Spriggan.
I'm not ignoring her MP. I'm saying that her MP is below Skullion, and comparable to dual elements Sting.
Skullion is the strongest among DE trio. Stalemated x793 Mira and defeated x792 DeS Gray. Brandish isn't gonna negate his strongest attack.
Rough Silk defeated a top tier Spriggan, she isn't going to nullify that either.
There are limits to every ability. You can't say she can negate attacks that have enough magic power in them that can defeat people like x793 DeS Gray and Laracade, that's NLF. Or do you think she has enough MP to stomp x793 DeS Gray?
No I'm not implying that. I'm implying that her natural physical stats are x792 Lucy tier.
Let me make it simpler. Restrict mass manipulation on body, of both herself and opponent (but she can use her magic on anything else, like enemy's magic, surroundings etc), and have her fight. This is what I'm talking about. Where do you see Brandish in this scenario?
No it isn't. Like I said, Sting, Rouge and Skullion cheese out her giant form. Youko is protected by her invulnerable summons and with her yokai form she solos the entire group. Laxus is Laxus.
In another group? Maybe. Not in this group.
He did beat a high tier Spriggan, after rendering a good majority of his Magic utterly useless, and he didn't even beat Larcade alone. If anything, this goes against Larcade, he lost against a nerfed Sting, the only good feats he has is his hax and him blocking Kagura's blade, which I can see other Spriggans achieving the same thing, Kagura is far from Spriggan Tier.
Ok, name the Spriggans who is fast and strong enough to block every single slash from Kagura with a single finger. I can name - August, Eileen, Serena. Who else? Larcade is the 4th strongest Spriggan in stats, and Sting took him out.
Yes he countered all his hax, obviously Sting gets stomped if Larcade's hax worked on him. But I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about combat stats.
Kagura is equal to Minerva by portrayal, and Minerva is like 33-40% Spriggan level based on her fight against Historia Wahl. So it wasn't like Larcade did it to some irrelevant fodder.
Yes, it's obviously finite. But the duration is unknown, it depends on Brandish's MP and she is praised for her massive MP. If I had to guess, since 3 minutes was effortless for her I'd say she can at least go 15 minutes. But that's really just an assumption.
You keep saying Sting and Skullion are at a higher level and that's where we disagree, I think Brandish's the one that's at a higher level.
Sting only beat Larcade because he had a counter for every of his hax.
He was a virgin, he ate the light magic (and remember, the stronger your opponent is the stronger you get from eating their magic, so Sting got a pretty decent boost there), Rogue fed him when he got striked with Hunger and Kagura helped him use shadow to escape RIP. And the fact that he needed help to use the shadows is pretty much a feat against him since GMG Gajeel had no trouble mastering it by himslef instantly.
Sting ate both Larcade's magic and a whole lot of Rogue's magic, that's what made him strong enough to defeat Larcade. Now his dual mode is nowhere near that power.
Skullion defeated x793 Gray and slatemated x793 Mira. Both these characters are above Brandish, since we had a 1 year timeskip.
Skullion is the strongest of the average Dragon Eaters. Dragon Eaters as a whole has better portrayal than Spriggans.
Sure Sting would've got wreck by hax if not for his counters.
Yet, he was strong enough to compete in combat against someone who no diff'd Kagura. Rough Silk defeated someone durable enough to block every single slash from Kagura with a single finger. My point here is about Sting's combat stats. With dual elements, he should also magically reach the level of an average Spriggan.
Also, Rouge only compensated for his MP depleted by Larcade's hunger, it just restored his MP back to normal
An attack that can defeat x793 DeS Gray and her superior (Larcade) are above her level. Spriggans are power crept by Dragon Eaters, and Laracade is her superior.
And about her stats that you claim are bad. She threw the fight against Lucy for show. However, in the beginning of the fight, she stopped Lucy Taurus kick without magic.
Later, Lucy Taurus's punch managed to put a hole in the wood golem, while Gajeel's mace didn't even put a dent in it.
So Brandish CQC stats > Taurus Lucy CQC stats > Gajeel CQC base stats.
Stardress mix >> regular Stardress. A single charged spell from that mode completely drains Lucy of all her MP.
Also, this is x793 Lucy. x793 Lucy is far stronger than x792 Lucy
And no, stardress mix x793 Lucy isn't above x793 base Gajeel. She can use that spell a single time and completely exhaust herself.
Later on, we see that Gray, Mira, Elfman and Gajeel took down multiple of those golems off screen. It just means that x793 stadress Lucy going all out > CASUAL x793 base Gajeel.
Why Aldoron God Seed should be the only one concerned ? The panel showing Lucy strong enough to punch through one Golem and then destroys one entirely shows up that the Golems are more vulnerable after Doom's defeat. Or are you saying that Lucy strike tougher than Gajeel, Mira, Elfman and co, where the Golems didn't sense the impact of the team ? No sense.
Look at the pictures before Doom's defeat : all are powerless, no exceptions, even Lucy.
Look at the pictures after Doom's defeat : the second page, same where Lucy punches through the Golem, half of the Gajeel's blade is inside the Golems' fist.
Look at the ultimate one, Kana's words : "we keep beating them but they just keep coming".
So now, everyone can damage the Golems and put them down.
We don't need words like "I am weaker now", the panels give explanation. All Guardians are in connection. One down handicap all the other still in the fights.
Why Aldoron God Seed should be the only one concerned ? The panel showing Lucy strong enough to punch through one Golem and then destroys one entirely shows up that the Golems are more vulnerable after Doom's defeat. Or are you saying that Lucy strike tougher than Gajeel, Mira, Elfman and co, where the Golems didn't sense the impact of the team ? No sense.
Look at the pictures before Doom's defeat : all are powerless, no exceptions, even Lucy.
Look at the pictures after Doom's defeat : the second page, same where Lucy punches through the Golem, half of the Gajeel's blade is inside the Golems' fist.
Look at the ultimate one, Kana's words : "we keep beating them but they just keep coming".
So now, everyone can damage the Golems and put them down.
We don't need words like "I am weaker now", the panels give explanation. All Guardians are in connection. One down handicap all the other still in the fights.
Yea, it scared Natsu also. Typical hype in beginning of the arc. Yet everyone knows Natsu would murderstomp Brandish if he's serious. He goes FDKM and she's toast. He goes END and she becomes a carrot farmer. If you disagree even with this, let's just stop here cause we aren't on the same wavelength about even the baselines lol.
Team Natsu got shit scared by the MP of Spriggans, yet later they destroyed the Spriggans.
x792 top good guys > average Spriggan. With exceptions like Serena and Dimaria.
x793 top good guys > x792 top good guys.
It only explicitly states that Brandish and other Spriggans hold much, much more MP than the protagonists, not that they could stomp every single one of the good guys, as I said before, high MP doesn't mean high stats.
I completely agree, to me Dimaria>Brandish, so, yeah, if Brandish faced off against E.N.D she would be worse off than Dimaria was, I'm not denying that.
Agree about Serena and Dimaria, to me they aren't the "average" Spriggans.
Ok, name the Spriggans who is fast and strong enough to block every single slash from Kagura with a single finger. I can name - August, Eileen, Serena. Who else? Larcade is the 4th strongest Spriggan in stats, and Sting took him out.
Yes he countered all his hax, obviously Sting gets stomped if Larcade's hax worked on him. But I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about combat stats.
Kagura is equal to Minerva by portrayal, and Minerva is like 33-40% Spriggan level based on her fight against Historia Wahl. So it wasn't like Larcade did it to some irrelevant fodder.
Okay, I can name at least one, Dimaria in Chronos Soul, she completely no sold a kick to the face from DF Wendy, and it took a Spriggan Tier opponent (TO Sherria), with Slayer Advantage + help to defeat her, I'm sure she's strong and fast enough to react accordingly with Kagura's slashes and block them.
The reason why I didn't vote Youko was because her Hyakki Yagyō would instantly make her the number one target. Since she can summon an infinite number of yokai, the rest would likely team up to take her out because she represents the largest threat. And for the spirit and integrity of competition, I don't think it's fair for all the rest if they cannot destroy Youko's summon due to the attributes of Spirior. Otherwise there is no point in having the tournament and we may as well hand her the crown on a silver platter.
Haven't we been through this already in the Elfman vs Ajeel debate?
I don't think we want to rehash our arguments again in another thread, so let's not go around in circles. My stance and line of thoughts remain the same. Seeing is believing. I prefer using factual evidence like feats in the manga to reinforce our points. Feats take precedence over hype and portrayal. If you think that Rogue or Sting will hide inside shadow world for a prolonged duration, then provide the scans of them doing so to support your point. Unlike Ajeel, the two of them have been in numerous fights. If they have done so, then it really shouldn't be too much to ask for. When we are making a claim that a character is capable of achieving certain feats, the responsibility falls on us to provide evidence. Otherwise it remains an unproven conjecture.
Because the shadow is still on the land. Rogue explained the phenomena as sinking underground. Naturally when we sink beneath the surface of the ground, we are within the land mass itself. When the users are moving in the shadow world, they are visible and can be seen by others.
This ability gives them greater mobility. It is not a spatial magic that operates in an alternate dimension like Requip, Jacob's Transport, Minerva's Territory or Marin's Rules of the Area. Sting and Rogue can sink underground or climb the walls as shadows as much as they like. They can probably travel a few hundred meters at their fastest. But it is not going to escape Brandish's magic because she can instantly shrink something of a few kilometers wide like Caracole island into a pebble.
Obviously she threw the fight.
But she held back in that she didn't use her hax effectively.
Lucy's fight did give us an idea of Brandish's other stats. Lucy could injure her and blitz her. While Elfman no sells her her strongest attack from stardress mix, which she didn't have against Brandish
She has high MP and range. But low in other stats.
For every spell from Skullion or Sting she nullifies using mass manipulation, five more land on her. Simply because they are superior in combat stats.
I know you will disagree with this, so tell me. How high do you think Brandish's stats are? Restrict mass manipulation on body, self or enemy (but she can use on other things, like on enemy magic, on land mass etc) and put in her combat. This would give us an idea about her stats. How strong do you think this Brandish is pure combat stats?
Brandish actually has impressive physical stats. She is stronger than Jacob, and Star dress Tauros Lucy, who in turn is stronger than Gajeel with iron DS magic.
She effortlessly caught a kick from Lucy in Star dress Tauros form.
Star dress Tauros Lucy sent Jacob crashing into tables.
It could destroy the ground around herself with ease.
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And put a dent in Metro's golems, when Gajeel failed to achieve the same with his iron DS magic.
And that was not even Brandish's full potential because she was pretending to fight Lucy. It speaks volume how despite Brandish trying her best to throw the fight, Lucy was the one who was losing after using 3 different star dresses. Hence, why I said Brandish is stronger than Jacob at a minimum.
Since when did Lucy injure Brandish? Apart from a few scratches, Brandish was hardly out of breath or broke a sweat.
The 3 minute limitation was on Gajeel, not herself. And depending on how big or small Brandish makes them will affect how long it takes. For example, she has no issue at all super-sizing herself or Happy to be as big as buildings for extended periods of time. But she can only keep Gajeel at his "max size" (as in, bigger than a city) for 3 minutes before he turns back on his own. Brandish in her building size could grasp Natsu with ease. She does not have make herself as huge as how she did to Gajeel. She could make herself as huge as buildings, or a whole mountain if she prefers bigger, and she can sustain that size for extended duration. If Brandish's magic was effective on Erza and Gray, I don't see how it won't be effective on Sting and Rogue since Erza and Gray are more powerful than them.
Motherglare didn't give FR any powerup. Atlas Flames gave Natsu a massive powerup. That's the difference.
FR already one shotted LFD Natsu amp'd on POF, so that tells us everything we need to know about where Natsu without AF stands. AF Natsu >>>>>>> regular x791 Natsu
LFD Natsu amp'd on POF would definitely give Jura a high diff battle, but FR one shotted him. FR can destroy every single mage in GMG without much trouble, So, I think it's unfair to scale him with Jura.
And anyway, the scaling for FR comes from scaling Sting. FR is basically x792 Sting + more experience.
x791 LFD Natsu really isn't special or relevant in the present day. At all. The LFD Natsu on tenrou island was far more powerful because he had all of Laxus' enormous MP. x791 LFD Natsu was widely regarded as weaker than x791 Jura. Back then, it was the general consensus. F.Rogue was more powerful than x791 Laxus, Jellal and Jura. However, the gap was not as huge as x793 Natsu and x791 Natsu. F.Rogue was likely a tier ahead of x791 Laxus, Jellal and Jura. However, x793 Natsu is leagues upon leagues stronger than x791 Natsu. Or a dozen tiers ahead. Depending on which you prefer. Present-day Lucy has an excellent chance of beating x791 Natsu.
He beat Wall with an asspull in which he needed a year to obtain so no he didn't win at 10% power like you are implying. Secondly Wall's Eyherion outweighs any spell in FT bar DF Natsu's Secret Art: Purgatory. Third once Wall lost his immunity to lightning he became weak to it again. Fourth Brandish relevant, she literally made Gajeel strong enough to actually hurt Aldo's main body to the point it needed to rest after their fight. Kiria walked away from Laxus' random lightning blast, Kiria is borderline fodder compared to any mid tier S12 let alone a high tier one like Brandish. Fifth Laxus isn't doing jack squat to Aldo form Brandish nor is he surviving her even glancing his way. His strongest and biggest attack would be ant size to Aldo Brandish.
Bcs the entirety of Team Natsu and Lucy's spirits were holding them at bay and they were being enhanced by Wendy to actually touch them in the first place. Natsu has a f ton more AoE and he even had trouble with them so no Laxus' AoE is going to doing jack squat in this fight lol.
Laxus is also not faster than Erza. He got straight up blitzed twice by Erza before he could even react lmao.
A joke armor... that consumed most of her MP and could only be used to fight in fight in Elentir. Yeah, no, that armor did better than red pants which Youko was beating handily, an enhanced red pants at that.
He beat Wahl with a low level POF moment, that was more closely aligned with fruits of training than asspull. An I literally said nothing about Laxus being at 10% power, just reminded you that the only time Wahl had the upper hand is when he went from passively dying to actively, though the arbitrary number does help with this lil deflection.
Second, yes it does. An this was Wahl’s computer brains real solution to an already sick and in his own opinion dying Laxus. A full on Etherion blast.
Third, yes he would have had a weakness too it. He’s also been siphoning power the entire fight and is in his strongest form while Laxus was dominanting with regular lightning. So the battle is no less impressive. Even if he wasn’t sick.
Fourth: Brandish isn’t nearly as impressive, she’s just been kept relevant because of her popularity, just like why Irene is still around. An making Gajeel large was cool, but it wouldn’t help her beat Laxus. An I haven’t seen anything from Brandish, who is weaker than the Neinhart Natsu 1 shot in FDK Mode, to suggest that she could win against a combatant who beat Erza. An matched her in red pants.
5th Brandish might last 5 mins? How is she harming him? She isn’t that fast, has no energy attacks of her own, and can’t harm Lightning. Soooo other than getting a bunch of Nukes dropped…
It only explicitly states that Brandish and other Spriggans hold much, much more MP than the protagonists, not that they could stomp every single one of the good guys, as I said before, high MP doesn't mean high stats.
I completely agree, to me Dimaria>Brandish, so, yeah, if Brandish faced off against E.N.D she would be worse off than Dimaria was, I'm not denying that.
Agree about Serena and Dimaria, to me they aren't the "average" Spriggans.
Ok. So, that argument now is about magic power. I presume at least you can agree Brandish can't hold her own against these mages by pure combat stats? She can for a while by making herself a giant, but as soon as she becomes "normal" again, she isn't holding her own against them by pure stats.
Lets try to form a baseline for her MP.
Brandish's MP = Dimaria's MP. Agree?
END had enough MP to overpower Dimaria's hax. "Serious" DeS Gray faced and stalemated a stronger (more demonized) END. And it wasn't because of slayer advantage, they were equal in speed, strength and attack power. Maybe it was because Natsu was still mostly human, the slayer advantage didn't kick in.
Who are other characters in x792 who can match or defeat partial END?
- Serious Gray, by feat.
- Gildarts
- Laxus
- Jellal
These are the characters IMO. Do you agree?
If that's the case, these characters have high enough MP to outright resist hax from Brandish and Dimaria.
Can't we at least scale Skulion to x792 serious Gray, Laxus or Jellal? There is a powerup between x792 and x793. I certainly think defeating non serious x793 DeS Gray and stalemating x793 Mira warrants Skullion being on par with those guys, if not stronger.
Skullion is definitely strong enough to resist and overpower Brandish's magic based on scaling to on or above x792 Laxus/Jellal. His high end attacks aren't getting negated by Brandish. He has better portrayal (DE over Spriggan) and feats.
And again. Skullion's strongest on screen spell defeated x793 DeS Gray clean. And Rough Silk defeated her superior, who is decently high in stats himself. Based on what are you suggesting Brandish negate them? I want to understand the reasoning, other than "Spriggans high in MP", yeah ok, but so are Skullion and WSD Sting.
I want to know, why you believe that Brandish has higher MP than Skullion. I stated my reasoning above, he scales to on or above partial END.
And finally. Let's assume she has enough MP for the sake of argument. What makes you think she can even react in time to WSD Sting or Skullion?
WSD Sting has stats on or above Larcade (don't bring "Sting had counters to hax", I'm talking about pure stats here). And Larcade had stats to no diff Kagura. Kagura > x792 Lucy, purely based on the fact that she scales to Minerva who can high-extreme diff Historia Spriggans
Skullion is on par with x793 Mira in combat stats.
On what basis is Brandish keeping up with them enough to react properly to Rough Silk? At least you can argue Black Ash has cast delay, so maybe arguable for Skullion, but he can still land regular spells on her. Even if she has enough MP to negate them.
Okay, I can name at least one, Dimaria in Chronos Soul, she completely no sold a kick to the face from DF Wendy, and it took a Spriggan Tier opponent (TO Sherria), with Slayer Advantage + help to defeat her, I'm sure she's strong and fast enough to react accordingly with Kagura's slashes and block them.
DF Wendy is fodder even to Bluenote, someone below Jura. She also got one shotted by Kyria.
In before "but Wendy wasn't in DF both times" - a panel or two before both feats, she was in DF. It was especially hilarious for Kyria, she downed to base because of gag moment of "my loli bewbs are non existent" joke? Give me a break lol.
How is TO Sherria Spriggan tier?
I want to know what you're basing this on. TO Sherria was ??? in power level, none of us know where she stands.
But we do know where Cronos Dimaria stands. When partial END no diffed her, she was balbbering about "he surpassed even Gods" or something. It points towards END no diffing Cronos Dimaria in combat.
Larcade is below partial END in stats as well, but not at the point where he gets no diff'd.
Larcade > Cronos Dimaria in stats. Both by hype, and by feats
Youko overwhelmed red pants Erza, that means something right?
That was a joke armour in Earth, but in Elentir, that was no longer the case
Anyway, her Yokai form is immune to everything except Spirior. How can anyone here take her out?
What POF did Sting have?
Future Rouge was has 6 years above Sting. He has more mastery of dual DS magic than anyone in the series. He even can turn into himself into light, something not even Sting has shown so far.
FR should be above Sting anyway we look at it.
Not really. Erza was overwhelmed because Youko had 4 arms and they were swordfighting. Erza pulled out that armour to show off that she can have 4 arms too. I have no doubt that if Erza really wanted to, she could have just spammed 100 swords with heaven's wheel. Nobody here really cares that Youko has 4 arms. All that matters is if they can land, and if the hits they land hit as hard as Erza's showcase armour.
Is it? I was under the impression that only the Yokai she summoned had to be defeated with spirior. Youko herself has a physical body right? Same way Lucy had a physical body when she got Youkai'd.
Why? x792 Sting beat a high tier Spriggan, and future Rouge is above x792 Sting
Even if you argue Sting countered Larcade. He was still fast and strong enough to take him down. Larcade was fast and strong enough to counter every single slash from Kagura with a single finger
Obviously Sting loses without the advantages he had, but that he had enough stats to take down Larcade is not something you can ignore.
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He meant the senses would be heightened momentarily whenever he access shadow mode.
That wasn't a limitation on the time he can be in shadow mode
Gajeel dragged him out of shadow mode by becoming a shadow himself. Not y brute strength.
How would shrinking land affect shadow? It would just move over to the new mass that takes it's place
Obviously she threw the fight.
But she held back in that she didn't use her hax effectively.
Lucy's fight did give us an idea of Brandish's other stats. Lucy could injure her and blitz her. While Elfman no sells her her strongest attack from stardress mix, which she didn't have against Brandish
She has high MP and range. But low in other stats.
For every spell from Skullion or Sting she nullifies using mass manipulation, five more land on her. Simply because they are superior in combat stats.
I know you will disagree with this, so tell me. How high do you think Brandish's stats are? Restrict mass manipulation on body, self or enemy (but she can use on other things, like on enemy magic, on land mass etc) and put in her combat. This would give us an idea about her stats. How strong do you think this Brandish is pure combat stats?
Motherglare didn't give FR any powerup. Atlas Flames gave Natsu a massive powerup. That's the difference.
FR already one shotted LFD Natsu amp'd on POF, so that tells us everything we need to know about where Natsu without AF stands. AF Natsu >>>>>>> regular x791 Natsu
LFD Natsu amp'd on POF would definitely give Jura a high diff battle, but FR one shotted him. FR can destroy every single mage in GMG without much trouble, So, I think it's unfair to scale him with Jura.
And anyway, the scaling for FR comes from scaling Sting. FR is basically x792 Sting + more experience.
And again, GS is pure stats with no hax, like Natsu.
You can't extrapolate his combat stats to other Spriggans. I doubt Jacob or DImaria for eg, are defeating Jura with anything below high diff, if we restrict their hax. The average Spriggan, like Brandish, is strong because of hax, not because they're particularly strong in combat.
Future rogue was down by GMG AF natsu who isn’t stronger than base alavez natsu also he isn’t stronger than wsd sting. Youko will give wsd sting trouble
He beat Wall with an asspull in which he needed a year to obtain so no he didn't win at 10% power like you are implying. Secondly Wall's Eyherion outweighs any spell in FT bar DF Natsu's Secret Art: Purgatory. Third once Wall lost his immunity to lightning he became weak to it again. Fourth Brandish relevant, she literally made Gajeel strong enough to actually hurt Aldo's main body to the point it needed to rest after their fight. Kiria walked away from Laxus' random lightning blast, Kiria is borderline fodder compared to any mid tier S12 let alone a high tier one like Brandish. Fifth Laxus isn't doing jack squat to Aldo form Brandish nor is he surviving her even glancing his way. His strongest and biggest attack would be ant size to Aldo Brandish.
Bcs the entirety of Team Natsu and Lucy's spirits were holding them at bay and they were being enhanced by Wendy to actually touch them in the first place. Natsu has a f ton more AoE and he even had trouble with them so no Laxus' AoE is going to doing jack squat in this fight lol.
Laxus is also not faster than Erza. He got straight up blitzed twice by Erza before he could even react lmao.
A joke armor... that consumed most of her MP and could only be used to fight in fight in Elentir. Yeah, no, that armor did better than red pants which Youko was beating handily, an enhanced red pants at that.
Thanks for waiting, seriously I appreciate it. Where was I? oh that’s right.
Natsu’s best AOE was against Aldoron for sure, but that was circumstantial. He doesn’t throw a ton of large effect blows. While Laxus summons lightning bolts, shoots lightning, lightning bullets, drops Nukes, and clears areas with a blink of his eye. He has way more EP moves and versatility and can easily amp those to larger AOE to create his own space. Not to mention he’s able to maneauver better with his lightning body. Nothing suggests she’d survive a lightning Nuke either.
Erza managed one decent counter, as we’ve discussed before doesn’t consistute a blitz, and was only able to truly blitz him after stacking amps, and again only once. Lot of good it did her lol. Whereas Laxus opens by sidestepping her effortlessly. He blitzes her as soon as he goes RLM, and is able to get off two attacks to her one immediately following their big clash.
A joke armor that wasn’t for real combat, as mentioned by Erza herself. An she still put ol girl down.
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oh that’s right.