Question Hisoka's resurrection discussion

[Hannibal Psyche]

No, regarding my logic, that is the way chrollo's ability works and that is to be accepted. And it makes sense because chrollo stole an ability which got stronger due to the condition that its original user dies . That condition is still intact, thus it is absolutely fine if it is stronger in chrollo's book.

Still a double standard, it is Chrollo's ability now. By your logic, it shouldn't be stronger. Like I said before, you're relying on double standard to hold on to a view based on denial and bias.

Togashi didn't say Chrollo's ability was still stronger, so how you still accept it as stronger is clearly unfounded; Togashi never said Hisoka's ability grew weaker just because he was ressurected, yet you claim it to have become weakened; it's hypocrisy.

 

[uberfayt]

For Chrollo, when a user to whom he stole an ability dies, that ability gets deleted. Whowever in the case of "Sun and Moon", the ability remained on the book even when the user died, Which is a case of "nen getting intense after death". Now here is my question :

If it is Chrollo's ability now, meaning it gets activated using his own nen and that it has nothing to do anymore with its original user, then how in blazes did it recognize that it's original owner died, resulting in it becoming stronger and remaining in the book ? Hence we get a paradox if we suppose that a stolen ability has nothing to do with it's original owner anymore.

Now, let us suppose that a stolen ability in Chrollo's book still has some link with its original user. This means that if he dies and fullfills the right conditions, his nen will get stronger, and as a result the ability somehow realizes it and gets boosted as well, while remaining in the book. In the case of sun and moon, its user is still dead, so nothing forces the ability to cease being strong.

In Hisoka's case, it's something completely new that has never occured before, and needs to be clarified by Togashi. Until then, it makes sense to consider the case that Hisoka's nen returned to normal since he's not dead anymore. (Even if it has feeble chances of being true).

 

[shionoro]

Still a double standard, it is Chrollo's ability now. By your logic, it shouldn't be stronger. Like I said before, you're relying on double standard to hold on to a view based on denial and bias.

Togashi didn't say Chrollo's ability was still stronger, so how you still accept it as stronger is clearly unfounded; Togashi never said Hisoka's ability grew weaker just because he was ressurected, yet you claim it to have become weakened; it's hypocrisy.

No, it is NOT my logic because one of my premises is that chrollo is NOT the owner of that ability because it is stolen.
My logic is very coherent, as in, the ability gets stronger via the condition that the original owner dies. And if that happens, the condition is still intact and chrollo can use the better version. That is completely undeniably coherent.

And we know the ability is stronger because the symbols dont vanish anymore, which they did prior (except if chrollo lied, which is a possibility).
Togashi never said anything on whether hisoka is stronger, even if you try to twist completely unrelated things that way.
Fact is that the condition for hisoka's ability to stay behind and/or grow stronger was that he dies.
That condition is gone now, which let's it appear very logical that he is not stronger anymore.

As uberfayt said it, there is no way of knowing yet because in fact there is nothing togashi says about that.
Not himself and not via a character surrogate (and no, machi said absolutely nothing about hisoka's strength. The 'nen that intensifies?' comment at least is nothing of that sort, leave alone after his ressurection. She was not impressed by him when he was revived, she was not even afraid of him or uneasy, which is why he could take her by surprise. That would be kinda off if she thought he got significantly stronger).

I can freely admit that it is a possibility that he in fact got stronger, but so far you can very coherently assume the opposite, which is much more likely in my opinion.
But you claiming that definitely only 'hisoka getting stronger' can be true is simply false.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

My logic is very coherent

It isn't, it's denial.

1. The Manga established that Nen can grow stronger which you openly denied.
   Spoiler

   

   
   

   There is nothing saying that any nen user gets stronger through death,

2. Hisoka Died.
3. The Manga followed by stating he grew stronger after establishing the fact.
   Spoiler

   

Your logic isn't based on coherence or facts, but a fact you refuse to believe because it paints Togashi's writing as flawed and reflects you know it's a disappointing route for a writer of his calibre as you're so reluctant to accept facts.

There's really nothing to argue about. You can twist and distort as much as you want, but you're clearly wrong. Anyone capable of reading can clearly read and see he is possessing stronger Nen.

I'd take what the Manga says over anything you say. That's how stories work; they tell the story, we accept them.

 

[shionoro]

The Manga established that Nen can grow stronger which you openly denied

Nope, i never denied that.

Hisoka Died.

Which still holds true. The nen gets stronger, not the user.

The Manga followed by stating he grew stronger after establishing the fact.

Once again, no. The manga did not say hisoka got stronger. The nen got stronger when he was dead, it can aswell lose it strength due to losing the condition of death when hisoka revives.
And that thought is absolutely coherent.

 

[mousiehamster]

It isn't, it's denial.

1. The Manga established that Nen can grow stronger which you openly denied.
   Spoiler

   
2. Hisoka Died.
3. The Manga followed by stating he grew stronger after establishing the fact.
   Spoiler

   

Your logic isn't based on coherence or facts, but a fact you refuse to believe because it paints Togashi's writing as flawed and reflects you know it's a disappointing route for a writer of his calibre as you're so reluctant to accept facts.

There's really nothing to argue about. You can twist and distort as much as you want, but you're clearly wrong. Anyone capable of reading can clearly read and see he is possessing stronger Nen.

I'd take what the Manga says over anything you say. That's how stories work; they tell the story, we accept them.

"Stronger through death" clearly means the nen has acquired some sort of permanence after the nen user had ceased to exist, sort of like a light bulb remaining lit with its power source cut off. In the case of Sun and Moon, this means that all sun/moon marks that were conjured prior to the user's death, for some reason, continue to remain in existence. This quality of permanence interacted strangely with Skill Hunter with the result that Sun and Moon remained usable. None of this suggests that, say, the explosions from Sun and Moon are any stronger or have a larger blast radius, etc. This is no different to Hisoka's bungee gum, which is simply Hisoka's nen transmuted into a rubbery and gum-like substance, which, without Hisoka's conscious maintenance would simply disappear. Here, Bungee activates and contracts in a specific pattern without Hisoka's input. This is what "stronger after death" means, and nothing more. It's completely absurd to interpret that to mean that the nen itself has gotten more powerful/is of a greater magnitude and simply makes no sense in the context presented.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

It's completely absurd to interpret that to mean that the nen itself has gotten more powerful/is of a greater magnitude and simply makes no sense in the context presented.

What's absurd is interpreting stronger to mean "remain" when that wasn't said at all.

Phinks even explicitly says it here. Dont' want to come off as condescending, but this is simple reading comprehension, and his sentence here can be broken down:

1. He says... Nen doesn't necessarily disappear after death (which is what you inaccurately interpret as stronger Nen).
2. Following with... In some cases, it even becomes stronger which clearly means not only can Nen remain, it can get literally stronger.

So, for you to tell me otherwise clearly shows your statement is without evidence and is clearly a wrong interpretation. Even without context, it's simply ridiculous to come to such an interpretation. Something not disappearing has no bearing on something become stronger; the terms are distinctive and more so without such context implying such a thing.

If what you're saying were remotely true, the 2nd speech balloon simply wouldn't exist, it'd just be Phinks saying Nen doesn't necessarily disappear after death.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 22, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 22, 2016 ---

Nope, i never denied that.


Which still holds true. The nen gets stronger, not the user.


Once again, no. The manga did not say hisoka got stronger. The nen got stronger when he was dead, it can aswell lose it strength due to losing the condition of death when hisoka revives.
And that thought is absolutely coherent.

Your intention has been to make out that Nen remaining after death is the definition of Nen getting stronger which is wrong.

Phinks already explained it saying:

1. Nen can remain - meaning it simply ceases to disappear from existence and can still perform whatever function it holds.
2. Nen can also in this state of not ceasing to exist can also grow stronger.

And it's nonsensical to say the Manga didn't state Hisoka got stronger; it is his Nen, therefore, it growing stronger makes him stronger, It's just a poor play on words to twist what's said and bad logic.

There's nothing to debate, the Manga has clearly stated the case; your interpretation is simply a fallacy in all honesty.

 

[mousiehamster]

What's absurd is interpreting stronger to mean "remain" when that wasn't said at all.

Phinks even explicitly says it here. Dont' want to come off as condescending, but this is simple reading comprehension, and his sentence here can be broken down:

1. He says... Nen doesn't necessarily disappear after death (which is what you inaccurately interpret as stronger Nen).
2. Following with... In some cases, it even becomes stronger which clearly means not only can Nen remain, it can get literally stronger.

So, for you to tell me otherwise clearly shows your statement is without evidence and is clearly a wrong interpretation. Even without context, it's simply ridiculous to come to such an interpretation. Something not disappearing has no bearing on something become stronger; the terms are distinctive and more so without such context implying such a thing.

If what you're saying were remotely true, the 2nd speech balloon simply wouldn't exist, it'd just be Phinks saying Nen doesn't necessarily disappear after death.

So why did Hisoka remark about nen being stronger after death in response to the revelation about Sun and Moon remaining in Skill Hunter despite the death of its creator? I'm sure nen can be stronger, in the sense of being more powerful, post-death but that doesn't mean Bungee Gum became more powerful. Why would Machi even comment on that? What caught her attention was the fact that a corpse was emitting aura despite being "dead as a door nail", a phenomena that only occurs when a nen user, with his/her last breath and dying will, empowers his/her nen, imbuing it with some sort of permanence. In some cases, the nen itself can be more powerful, no doubt about that, but Machi's observation was in relation to the very fact that there was nen being emitted and not its power level.

 

[shionoro]

Your intention has been to make out that Nen remaining after death is the definition of Nen getting stronger which is wrong.

My reasoning was that 'nengetting stronger' is a general term sometimes used equivalently with 'nenstayingbehind' in the manga as a reference to the concept itself, not to a special case.
Same as 'oath and restriction', which is often used as reference to the concept even if a nenuser does not have a certain oath put onto his restriction or has an oath but no limitation.

So it is very possible that machi thinks of that concept rather than of evaluating the power of the nen she feels. In my opinion, it is even more probably.
Her line of thought would be : Why do i feel nen even if hisoka is dead? --> it could be nen intensifying after death.
Let's also keep in mind that there is even a question mark behind her thought. So it is even nothing she is completely sure about at that point.

Phinks already explained it saying:

1. Nen can remain - meaning it simply ceases to disappear from existence and can still perform whatever function it holds.
2. Nen can also in this state of not ceasing to exist can also grow stronger.

And it's nonsensical to say the Manga didn't state Hisoka got stronger; it is his Nen, therefore, it growing stronger makes him stronger, It's just a poor play on words to twist what's said and bad logic.

There's nothing to debate, the Manga has clearly stated the case; your interpretation is simply a fallacy in all honesty.

No, it is not nonsensial to say that because it didnt happen.
As i said, machi was even guessing and she could aswell have referred to the broader concept. Noone debates that nen can remain or get stronger. That whole concept is still being referred to as 'nen getting stronger'.
Even in chrollo's case: The elders ability did not get stronger. It simply didnt vanish, so stayed behind. BUt the manga still referred to it as nen getting stronger.
Why is it so out of question for you that the same happened in hisoka's case?

Also, even if it got stronger, once again, you have no way of knowing that hisoka got stronger.
Even if machi meant what you think she meant it was before hisoka revived. And hisoka living again removes the condition for his nen to get stronger.
It is a case that has never happened before so you cannot really know what that means.

With all we know about nen mechanics, it is unprobable that nen which got stronger through a condition stays strong even if the condition is not met anymore.
We have not seen that in any other nen ability.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

So why did Hisoka remark about nen being stronger after death in response to the revelation about Sun and Moon remaining in Skill Hunter despite the death of its creator? I'm sure nen can be stronger, in the sense of being more powerful, post-death but that doesn't mean Bungee Gum became more powerful. Why would Machi even comment on that? What caught her attention was the fact that a corpse was emitting aura despite being "dead as a door nail", a phenomena that only occurs when a nen user, with his/her last breath and dying will, empowers his/her nen, imbuing it with some sort of permanence. In some cases, the nen itself can be more powerful, no doubt about that, but Machi's observation was in relation to the very fact that there was nen being emitted and not its power level.

That's incorrect.

Machi said "Stronger Nen?" Which clearly implies his Nen got stronger.

It's even more apparent that Hisoka requesting his Nen to revive him was inspired b Chrollo pointing out Nen can get stronger after death.

You're also missing the fact that Hisoka clearly has new found uses of his Nen which is consistent with anything getting stronger; there's both consistency and correleation.

Bungee Gum is a manifestation of Nen abilities, therefore, it is stronger; to say otherwise simply doesn't make sense.

 

[mousiehamster]

That's incorrect.

Machi said "Stronger Nen?" Which clearly implies his Nen got stronger.

It's even more apparent that Hisoka requesting his Nen to revive him was inspired b Chrollo pointing out Nen can get stronger after death.

You're also missing the fact that Hisoka clearly has new found uses of his Nen which is consistent with anything getting stronger; there's both consistency and correleation.

Bungee Gum is a manifestation of Nen abilities, therefore, it is stronger; to say otherwise simply doesn't make sense.

I don't think it's arguable at all. It would be a silly way of conveying a power up and there's no narrative purpose to it whatsoever. Everything you're saying is just based on the word "stronger" being used. Well, it may be a translation thing.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I don't think it's arguable at all. It would be a silly way of conveying a power up and there's no narrative purpose to it whatsoever. Everything you're saying is just based on the word "stronger" being used. Well, it may be a translation thing.

What is silly is disregarding sensible logic, context and implication. What you're saying lacks all.

It's not a translation thing, even the official translation says the exact same thing.

How else is a power up supposed to be conveyed? with a lack of improvement or exhibition of progress? that's absurd.

You're actually saying here that the Manga stating that something becoming stronger is the opposite, it makes no sense.

 

[Aonori]

I think the whole thing with Hisoka´s ressurection, seems to be very controversial at best, either or not he powered up from it, or not the fact is, Hisoka got to use the stronger Nen after death, thing to revive himself, which introduces a paradox in the series and can get worse overtime if it´s not at least damage controlled, first off it should´ve come up with imediate repercutions at least, if togashi was up to make it look good, we also dont know, if Hisoka had to make a last ditch contract for the whole thing to be possible as well, at first I thought he was just salty after losing to chrollo and decided to go after the spiders to limit, his Bandit´s Secret abuse, but now after some thought into it, it could be possible that atitude of Hisoka could be affected by some type of contract, he made up to save himself, with very tough clauses, like a time a limit to kill all the spiders or else, a shortened life span, or anything of the likes, eitherway, I think Togashi should´ve explained the whole situation better, in one or two chaps before going into hiatus, that wasnt a very good idea.

 

[shionoro]

I think the whole thing with Hisoka´s ressurection, seems to be very controversial at best, either or not he powered up from it, or not the fact is, Hisoka got to use the stronger Nen after death, thing to revive himself, which introduces a paradox in the series and can get worse overtime if it´s not at least damage controlled, first off it should´ve come up with imediate repercutions at least, if togashi was up to make it look good, we also dont know, if Hisoka had to make a last ditch contract for the whole thing to be possible as well, at first I thought he was just salty after losing to chrollo and decided to go after the spiders to limit, his Bandit´s Secret abuse, but now after some thought into it, it could be possible that atitude of Hisoka could be affected by some type of contract, he made up to save himself, with very tough clauses, like a time a limit to kill all the spiders or else, a shortened life span, or anything of the likes, eitherway, I think Togashi should´ve explained the whole situation better, in one or two chaps before going into hiatus, that wasnt a very good idea.

I do think what togashi aimed for was maximum shock value.

He had one chapter and the following things needed to happen: Hisoka being revived, Hisoka devlaring his intent to kill to machi and hisoka killing shalnark and kortopi.
Any of these things needed a small build up. I agree that an additional page or a page with more panels to explain a bit more about the 'how' would have helped a lot, but on the other hand, then blanks can be filled out and narratively, it made sense to not give the readers time to think so they would be caught unexspectedly and in a rush by hisoka's sudden new plan.
Also, i don't see the paradox yet: Nen can staybehind/getstronger after death, which it did, and then it revived him WHILE he was still dead. That, so far, is legit.since it depended on him setting it up the way he did (so that his nen gave him cpr).
I don't think that this calls for a very high prize, because after all, just bungee gum contracting and expanding after his death would be nothing strong.
It only got useful due to how he used it, and that does not call for a limitation

In any case: I am pretty sure that there will be more explained about it once we get focus on chrollo again (which i think is soon), but togashi wanted to at least board the boat before the hiatus and introduce the nenbeasts and i think he did the right thing there.
When people read it in one go it is absolutely fine if the hisoka situation is adressed again in like 5 chapters.

 

[Aonori]

I do think what togashi aimed for was maximum shock value.

He had one chapter and the following things needed to happen: Hisoka being revived, Hisoka devlaring his intent to kill to machi and hisoka killing shalnark and kortopi.
Any of these things needed a small build up. I agree that an additional page or a page with more panels to explain a bit more about the 'how' would have helped a lot, but on the other hand, then blanks can be filled out and narratively, it made sense to not give the readers time to think so they would be caught unexspectedly and in a rush by hisoka's sudden new plan.
Also, i don't see the paradox yet: Nen can staybehind/getstronger after death, which it did, and then it revived him WHILE he was still dead. That, so far, is legit.since it depended on him setting it up the way he did (so that his nen gave him cpr).
I don't think that this calls for a very high prize, because after all, just bungee gum contracting and expanding after his death would be nothing strong.
It only got useful due to how he used it, and that does not call for a limitation

In any case: I am pretty sure that there will be more explained about it once we get focus on chrollo again (which i think is soon), but togashi wanted to at least board the boat before the hiatus and introduce the nenbeasts and i think he did the right thing there.
When people read it in one go it is absolutely fine if the hisoka situation is adressed again in like 5 chapters.

It places a paradox in the sense that, death is a requirement for the Nen to become stronger, but it´s being used to revive it´s own user, without we viewers knowing what happens to the said nen afterwards, it places a possible paradox, it shouldnt be strengthned without the user´s death but is used in after power-up to revive the user, but if it required the user to stay dead to be strengthned, what does it happen to it after revival? If it was a simple, death and power-up , then it´s bad, because it allows the user to cheat death and gain a power-up from it, granted, Chrollo in a way cheats by also having nen strengthned by death abilities, but at least in context it involves the permanent death of the former user´s power to bend the rules of Bandit Secret, in Hisoka´s case he did all of this with his own Bungee Gum.

Point is, powering nen up by death, is a interesting aspect, but if it´s used for these types of things it starts enabling problems paradoxs, being a simple one but I do agree it might not be a paradox if we get some insight on the whole thing, involving a power down to Hisoka´s Bungee Gum after revival, that he somehow can get past by with established contracts, thats the only way the whole thing will make any sense to me, also having him powering down from the death strengthning nen, back to his former nen level at his time against Chrollo, isnt going to cut it out either, since it can potentially enable Hisoka to cheat death many more times.

Also wouldnt like to see Hisoka defeating Chrollo at the long run due to this revival, if he were to power up from it, just as a excuse to make Chrollo´s defeat more bearable to watch, but I will be ok with it, as long as it involves, some strong placed contracts, or other hardships Hisoka had to face with to pull.

I wonder if Togashi is gonna to make the Hisoka/Phantom troupe chaps take a while now after HxH restarts the chap releases, to think things out about this whole thing, but yeah once the new chaps are released the whole thing will look way more better than now, thats for sure.

 

[shionoro]

It places a paradox in the sense that, death is a requirement for the Nen to become stronger, but it´s being used to revive it´s own user, without we viewers knowing what happens to the said nen afterwards, it places a possible paradox, it shouldnt be strengthned without the user´s death but is used in after power-up to revive the user, but if it required the user to stay dead to be strengthned, what does it happen to it after revival? If it was a simple, death and power-up , then it´s bad, because it allows the user to cheat death and gain a power-up from it, granted, Chrollo in a way cheats by also having nen strengthned by death abilities, but at least in context it involves the permanent death of the former user´s power to bend the rules of Bandit Secret, in Hisoka´s case he did all of this with his own Bungee Gum.

Point is, powering nen up by death, is a interesting aspect, but if it´s used for this types of things it starts enabling problems paradoxs, being a simple one but I do agree it might not be a paradox if we get some insight on the whole thing, involving a power down to Hisoka´s Bungee Gum after revival, that he somehow can get past by with established contracts, thats the only way the whole thing will make any sense to me, also having him powering down from the death strengthning nen, back to his former nen level at his time against Chrollo, isnt going to cut it out either, since it can potentially enable Hisoka to cheat death many more times.

Also wouldnt like to see Hisoka defeating Chrollo at the long run due to this revival, if he were to power up from it, just as a excuse to make Chrollo´s defeat more bearable to watch, but I will be ok with it, as long as it involves, some strong placed contracts.

I wonder if Togashi is gonna to make the Hisoka/Phantom troupe chaps take a while now after HxH restarts the chap releases, to think things out about this whole thing.

I agree it would be a paradox if it stayed that way, but i don't think it does.
Noone in their right mind would write a loophole to get infinite strength in a manga like this.

Personally, i think it is like this:

Hisoka did lose limbs from the encounter and he is WEAKER than before in that regard because he has to constantly use his nen to model his fakelimbs and keep them camouflaged. That is some serious contra in his nenbalance in a fight.
However, he also tweaks his hatsu to do new things now with it (like using his fake limbs as weapons like it is implied when he killed shalnark).
So he won't fight completely like he did before, but he is not stronger.
What he wants to do is kill every spider until chrollo is alone and then have his proper one on one fight, because hisoka feels like he cannot beat chrollo when chrollo devised a plan and can set time and conditions of the fight.

Also, personally, i think hisoka won't be able to defeat the whole spider and might die while trying, but we will see about that.

 

[Aonori]

I agree it would be a paradox if it stayed that way, but i don't think it does.
Noone in their right mind would write a loophole to get infinite strength in a manga like this.

Personally, i think it is like this:

Hisoka did lose limbs from the encounter and he is WEAKER than before in that regard because he has to constantly use his nen to model his fakelimbs and keep them camouflaged. That is some serious contra in his nenbalance in a fight.
However, he also tweaks his hatsu to do new things now with it (like using his fake limbs as weapons like it is implied when he killed shalnark).
So he won't fight completely like he did before, but he is not stronger.
What he wants to do is kill every spider until chrollo is alone and then have his proper one on one fight, because hisoka feels like he cannot beat chrollo when chrollo devised a plan and can set time and conditions of the fight.

Also, personally, i think hisoka won't be able to defeat the whole spider and might die while trying, but we will see about that.

Well Chrollo is still too broken, for him, though he might be able to get around Doubleface´s effs if he puts Chrollo on a tough spot by improvising, I still think he could potentially kill up all the Spiders before reaching Feitan and Chrollo, Feitan because Hisoka is already damaged from his fight against Chrollo, while Feitan would be at peak health condition, thus screwing up Hisoka with his nen ability, I do think this Hisoka, should be capable to kill every spider up to phinks, mainly because of the trouble he gave to Chrollo, plus he wouldnt let Phinks have enough time to recharge, unlike that stupid chimera ant, at this point, but could potentially get out of those fights slightly to heavily damaged, especially, if the spiders decide to bandwagon him, with number advantage which at this point it´s very likely (Phinks teaming up with another spider, could ensure at least heavy injuries to Hisoka), Hisoka will be at a race against time, to beat them all up before they regroup and plan that, that could also be one of the reasons why he´s speeding things up, since Chrollo will now know something´s wrong the moment Shalnark and Kurotupi died.

 

[shionoro]

Well Chrollo is still too broken, for him, though he might be able to get around Doubleface´s effs if he puts Chrollo on a tough spot by improvising, I still think he could potentially kill up all the Spiders before reaching Feitan and Chrollo, Feitan because Hisoka is already damaged from his fight against Chrollo, while Feitan would be at peak health condition, thus screwing up Hisoka with his nen ability, I do think this Hisoka, should be capable to kill every spider up to phinks, mainly because of the trouble he gave to Chrollo, plus he wouldnt let Phinks have enough time to recharge, unlike that stupid chimera ant, at this point, but could potentially get out of those fights slightly to heavily damaged, especially, if the spiders decide to bandwagon him, with number advantage which at this point it´s very likely (Phinks teaming up with another spider, could ensure at least heavy injuries to Hisoka), Hisoka will be at a race against time, to beat them all up before they regroup and plan that, that could also be one of the reasons why he´s speeding things up, since Chrollo will now know something´s wrong the moment Shalnark and Kurotupi died.

I think hisoka definitely needs backup.
I dont know whether it would go against his pride to ask people to help him, but the spiders are not stupid.
He was lucky that kortopi and shalnark both didnt have their hatsus (and possibly nen?) and got taken by surprise (also, machi got taken by surprise) and that they were rather weak fighters to begin with.
Shalnark in battle mode would like have been able to at least hurt hisoka.
But now he has rather hard targets: I think all of nobunaga, phinks, Feitan, Bonolenov and franklin can be worthy one on one opponents of Hisoka who he cannot stomp.
Give any of them a support like Machi, Shizuku or kalluto and they likely even have an upper hand.
Against Kurapika, chrollo let the spider move in groups of three (s th he seemingly kept, seeing that machi, kortopi and shalnark were together).
Hisoka against 3 spiders is a fight that he, in my opinion, can hardly win no without support.
Or he has to ambush the supporting spiders first and then go 1n1, that might be possible.

The ressurection basically put him onto the right track in so far as that he understands that the spider are part of chrollo.
But whether he can win that fight, i would not be sure.

 

[Aonori]

I think hisoka definitely needs backup.
I dont know whether it would go against his pride to ask people to help him, but the spiders are not stupid.
He was lucky that kortopi and shalnark both didnt have their hatsus (and possibly nen?) and got taken by surprise (also, machi got taken by surprise) and that they were rather weak fighters to begin with.
Shalnark in battle mode would like have been able to at least hurt hisoka.
But now he has rather hard targets: I think all of nobunaga, phinks, Feitan, Bonolenov and franklin can be worthy one on one opponents of Hisoka who he cannot stomp.
Give any of them a support like Machi, Shizuku or kalluto and they likely even have an upper hand.
Against Kurapika, chrollo let the spider move in groups of three (s th he seemingly kept, seeing that machi, kortopi and shalnark were together).
Hisoka against 3 spiders is a fight that he, in my opinion, can hardly win no without support.
Or he has to ambush the supporting spiders first and then go 1n1, that might be possible.

The ressurection basically put him onto the right track in so far as that he understands that the spider are part of chrollo.
But whether he can win that fight, i would not be sure.

Depends on what spiders we are talking about, if it´s 3 with Phinks, Feitan or Chrollo as one of it´s members, I can see Hisoka dying easily, if there are teams of two without Feitan or Chrollo then, Hisoka stands a chance, the whole thing will also depend a lot, on how weakened, Hisoka is right now, how many surprise attacks he´s planning, how many spiders he can catch off guard, how many attacks he can avoid, etc...

If it´s a serious spider bandwagon, Hisoka is as good as dead, regardless of what he does.