TV House of The Dragon

[xi0]

Ned should have told Catelyn, that's the only thing that mattered. But it still had no bearing on the events that followed really, aside from Jon's story. Outside of that, even Robb named Jon heir, but that fact only remains among some northerners.

Viserys caused the war by not marrying Laena. Any sort of Oldtown conspiracy falls apart if they have no dragons of their own.

 

[kkck]

ned couldn't and shouldn't have told the truth about jon. robbert would have seem him as having a claim to the iron throne. worst, he would have never accepted his mother married rhaegar willingly. maybe telliny catelyn would have made the early stark's live's easier though.

 

[xi0]

Jon being perceived as a challenge to Robert's rule wouldn't be relevant to Catelyn though. I mean, maybe to remove all doubt Ned did the right thing, but I think ultimately it created angst that didn't need to exist.

When you contrast that with how HotD handled Rhaenyra's children from her first marriage, it's kind of funny. Though I will say that this more definite thing is a consequence of the Velaryons being black in the show. The Velaryons just looking like Targs muddies the waters quite a bit in respect to Jace, Luke, and Joffrey in Fire & Blood. Rhaenys is even brunette in the books, so the idea that her son couldn't have brunette children is somewhat absurd. Now her having three of them? Well... it is worth nothing that Rhaenys is brunette because her mother was Jocelyn Baratheon. If you factor in the whole "the seed is strong" bit from Ice and Fire, that would be enough to convince people that her children weren't bastards.

Nevermind that them being Harwin Strong's children isn't some forgone conclusion either. In fact, it's entirely possible that Jace could be Criston Cole's son, and the show's depiction of his relationship with Rhaenyra doesn't do much to discredit that idea either.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 17, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 16, 2022 ---

Wow, what an episode.

Rhaenys was kind of stupid though, she could have ended the entire conflict before it really started

 

[Arjuna]

Binge watched the remaining episodes.Some change from the books but good episodes.



Actually funny thing is Rhaenys could have prevented the Dance altogether if you think about it.

Another episode and this season will end.I think we will have 2 seasons of HOTD.

It didn't explicitly happen.... but the text is definitely suggestive. It emphasized how capable of a rider and hunter she was, the fact that she cracked her skull but recovered enough to leave bed a week later and then dropped dead not long after.

Obviously Archmaester Gyldayn's account is largely pro-Green due to his writings using sources like Septon Eustace, who very obviously hated the Targaryens and especially Rhaenyra and Daemon.

Sorry for the late reply but Daemon wasn't even present in Vale that time.He was in Stepstones fighting but on hearing his wife's death he flew to take possession of Royce lands...

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 18, 2022 ---

ned couldn't and shouldn't have told the truth about jon. robbert would have seem him as having a claim to the iron throne. worst, he would have never accepted his mother married rhaegar willingly. maybe telliny catelyn would have made the early stark's live's easier though.

He should have told Catelyn about Jon after many years.And he should have sent Jon to Essos to have a good life there.Maybe he should have given him good amount of money for him to settle in Braavos or Lys.

 

[xi0]

Sorry for the late reply but Daemon wasn't even present in Vale that time.He was in Stepstones fighting but on hearing his wife's death he flew to take possession of Royce lands...

Well, I guess you meant Daemon himself killing her didn't happen. There's no real evidence for that, but my point was that it could have still been his doing. At least, that is obviously the show's conclusion.

He should have told Catelyn about Jon after many years.And he should have sent Jon to Essos to have a good life there.Maybe he should have given him good amount of money for him to settle in Braavos or Lys.

Not Jon IMO. Robert tried multiple times to have Viserys and Danaerys killed. If a young teenager knows that secret, there's less of a reason for him to keep it a secret and he might be taken advantage of the way Young Griff is. Ned went to war against the Targs, he wouldn't allow his nephew a chance to return with the Golden Company and set the realm on fire.

 

[gnut]

But Jon wasn't like that....

Even still...keeping him a secret obviously fukd him up....kind how they portraying Aemond

 

[xi0]

But Jon wasn't like that....

Even still...keeping him a secret obviously fukd him up....kind how they portraying Aemond

Jon wasn't like that while being raised and protected by Ned. If he told Jon who he really was and sent him to the Free Cities with money, his path could be very similar to Dany or Griff. There's no telling.

Not really. Aemon had full agency over his decisions and did what he did for the sake of his brother Egg.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 19, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 19, 2022 ---

oh you mean Aemond One-eye... well not sure how that relates to Jon at all

 

[kkck]

He should have told Catelyn about Jon after many years.And he should have sent Jon to Essos to have a good life there.Maybe he should have given him good amount of money for him to settle in Braavos or Lys.

Jon had a good life though, that's not the issue here. Ned gave him a home and raised him as his own. The books don't exactly elaborate on everything ned thought regarding jon but my guess would be that in general ned acted to minimize the attention jon gets thus keeping him safe. And as a ned's bastard most people wouldn't look twice at jon (though a few people iirc correctly pointed out ned wasn't the type to sire bastards). Meanwhile it's completely in character for ned to raise his bastard as his own.

Now, actually give some thought to the scenario you present. Ned sending his bastard of to some free city.... Wouldn't THAT raise some eyebrows? By keeping the secret up to that point ned protected jon from rob. And he avoided potential youth dumbasery from spilling the secret. I think there's a case to be made that catelyn could have been told the secret which would have made jon's early life a bit easier, maybe even provided him with a mother figure, but it's undeniable that the secret is safer with one keeper than with two.

 

[xi0]

Meanwhile it's completely in character for ned to raise his bastard as his own.

I would disagree honestly. I think it would be in Ned's character to tend to his needs and support a bastard as his son, but not raise him under his own roof. That's Ned's only real "dishonorable" act. Well, that and whatever happened with the fight with Arthur Dayne.

 

[kkck]

I would disagree honestly. I think it would be in Ned's character to tend to his needs and support a bastard as his son, but not raise him under his own roof. That's Ned's only real "dishonorable" act. Well, that and whatever happened with the fight with Arthur Dayne.

Wait, how is that dishonorable? I could understand this being an insult to catelyn but it seems like a stretch that this could be seen as dishonorable on ned's end.

 

[gnut]

What i meant about Jon n Aemond....was how they were treated by their siblings....not so much Jon but it was there...a divide.

Only saying that he knew a war was coming regardless...why wait 16yrs or so only for the boy to be mentally and socially stunted xD

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 19, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 19, 2022 ---

Hell the Strong boys even know wutzup

 

[xi0]

Wait, how is that dishonorable? I could understand this being an insult to catelyn but it seems like a stretch that this could be seen as dishonorable on ned's end.

Having a bastard is dishonorable. Perhaps it'd be frowned upon more in the South where The Seven are worshipped, but remember that Catelyn is a Tully, and they don't worship the Old Gods.

Now that being said, men and Lords Paramount for that matter can get away with whatever they want, but still, raising your bastard son under the same roof as the rest of your children is absolutely frowned upon and lesser men than Ned would never do such a thing.

 

[gnut]

Like a Bolten?

 

[xi0]

What i meant about Jon n Aemond....was how they were treated by their siblings....not so much Jon but it was there...a divide.

Only saying that he knew a war was coming regardless...why wait 16yrs or so only for the boy to be mentally and socially stunted xD

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 19, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 19, 2022 ---

Hell the Strong boys even know wutzup

There wasn't any divide between Jon and his siblings though? They all loved him dearly, and while we never got inside Robb's head, he legitimized him and made him his heir. Any divide is entirely due to Catelyn.

A war was coming due to Danaerys? He definitely didn't think that though. That's why he was so adamantly against sending assassins after her. He died before her dragons hatched, obviously that changed things.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 19, 2022 ---

You could blame Aemond's character or really his brother's as well due to a lack of Viserys' involvement in his life. Towards the end in his stupor he didn't even think of Alicent's children as his...

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 19, 2022 ---

You could see the impact that had on Aegon directly

 

[kkck]

Having a bastard is dishonorable. Perhaps it'd be frowned upon more in the South where The Seven are worshipped, but remember that Catelyn is a Tully, and they don't worship the Old Gods.

Now that being said, men and Lords Paramount for that matter can get away with whatever they want, but still, raising your bastard son under the same roof as the rest of your children is absolutely frowned upon and lesser men than Ned would never do such a thing.

having a bastard is definitely dishonorable, my objection here is taking one under your roof being dishonorable.

 

[gnut]

having a bastard is definitely dishonorable, my objection here is taking one under your roof being dishonorable.

My point...wasnt Ramsey openly known...Boltens being northern...they dgaf


Idk...makes Ned kinda weak in my eyes seeing what Rhaenyra is going thru.

 

[Arjuna]

Well, I guess you meant Daemon himself killing her didn't happen. There's no real evidence for that, but my point was that it could have still been his doing. At least, that is obviously the show's conclusion.




Not Jon IMO. Robert tried multiple times to have Viserys and Danaerys killed. If a young teenager knows that secret, there's less of a reason for him to keep it a secret and he might be taken advantage of the way Young Griff is. Ned went to war against the Targs, he wouldn't allow his nephew a chance to return with the Golden Company and set the realm on fire.

Yeah i meant Daemon himself not killing Rhea.Note Rhea survived for few days before dying.If Daemon had hands in her killing she would have mentioned it.But any rate

-----

I don't mean he should have told Jon.Only Catelyn.

Jon had a good life though, that's not the issue here. Ned gave him a home and raised him as his own. The books don't exactly elaborate on everything ned thought regarding jon but my guess would be that in general ned acted to minimize the attention jon gets thus keeping him safe. And as a ned's bastard most people wouldn't look twice at jon (though a few people iirc correctly pointed out ned wasn't the type to sire bastards). Meanwhile it's completely in character for ned to raise his bastard as his own.

Now, actually give some thought to the scenario you present. Ned sending his bastard of to some free city.... Wouldn't THAT raise some eyebrows? By keeping the secret up to that point ned protected jon from rob. And he avoided potential youth dumbasery from spilling the secret. I think there's a case to be made that catelyn could have been told the secret which would have made jon's early life a bit easier, maybe even provided him with a mother figure, but it's undeniable that the secret is safer with one keeper than with two.

Why should it have raised eyebrows?Lot of people from Westeros go to Essos.Jon's life definitely wasn't the happiest in Winterfell.Ned couldn't even decide what future Jon will have.He probably tried to play safe between Robert and Jon.I am not saying he should have revealed to Jon .But if he had some thought to this,he should have sent Jon with money to Essos and settle there and raise a family there.

 

[gnut]

How you send him away without telling him lol

Sorry think Ned fukdup....
He woulda had greatest army had he told Robert yrs before and even up to his death.
Wtf he worried bout Robert bastards lol...so ridiculous when you have the prince in your house smh

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 19, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 19, 2022 ---

They laugh at Rhaenys

 

[Arjuna]

How you send him away without telling him lol

Sorry think Ned fukdup....
He woulda had greatest army had he told Robert yrs before and even up to his death.
Wtf he worried bout Robert bastards lol...so ridiculous when you have the prince in your house smh

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 19, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 19, 2022 ---

They laugh at Rhaenys

Jon believed he had no future in Westeros other than joining Nights watch.That is obviously wrong as we have instances of so many natural born children like Aurane Waters,Laurence Snow etc. who didn't join Nights Watch.Logically he should have given Jon a keep in the North.But he probably feared if Jon's true heritage is known Targaryen loyalists will rally behind Jon and overthrow his best friend Robert.That is why he tried to play safe by sending Jon to Night's watch and thereby ending his sister's line and Robert would have been safe too along with Jon.No doubt he is known in section of the fandom as "Eddard Baratheon".If he really cared that much about Jon,he should have told him,"Look Jon you may not have any future in Westeros,but in Essos no will care for your birth.Here take this gold and go to Braavos.I promise to send more money in future.Settle there,marry and raise a family."I am sure Jon would have definitely taken up the offer.

 

[gnut]

Night watch

Woohoo
XD

Much rather be trampled by horses