Discussion How Powerful Is Enel considering everyone now?

[Wisshard]

Can you provide any substantial proof of them using Haki that wasn't something that already was in their DF abilities?

fcToho provided the link to the scene which I was thinking of (as I said, it's very likely that they used Haki in that scene (considering they're confirmed (by Coby's doctor) to be Haki-user) though it's not confirmed).

Well, let me put it this way. What if Haki requires corporeal form? When your body is not entirely your body, Haki is not possible. Basically, when in-between the physical state of element and human, Haki isn't available for use. I'm not saying they can't use it, but that if they did they might not could enter element form, which would in general be a weak point for them. I realize inanimate objects can be imbued with Haki too, but without the whole body for the Haki to originate from it is not available. Not that someone like say Franky couldn't use Haki, but I'm just saying this might be a condition of Haki.

It's not that I entirely believe this, but it's not impossible or something that can be dismissed either with the knowledge we have thus far.

I believe Haki to be the manifestation of the emotional on the physical realm. Possibly just willpower and general instinct even. Who knows? It could be related to all of these things.

There is sparse information of Haki at this point, but nothing I've seen implies that Haki interferes with the Haki-users own Devil Fruit, and I don't see why Akainu's magma body would stop him from using Haki when Luffy's rubber body (or Marco's phoenix body) obviously doesn't.

That being said, Enel used mantra (confirmed to be a form of Haki) in tandem with his lightning logia, so I think you speculating a little too far outside the box here...

 

[CBlitz]

I think Enel was easily Aokiji/Ace level, Luffy only beat the crap out of him because he was rubber. Well Enel was basically pretty weak without his fruit, I don't know if the same can be said about Aokiji though....

 

[vagabond87]

I think Enel was easily Aokiji/Ace level, Luffy only beat the crap out of him because he was rubber. Well Enel was basically pretty weak without his fruit, I don't know if the same can be said about Aokiji though....

I think that Aokiji and Ace are both supreme to Enel in therms of strenght.
When Ace fought with BB Van Augur was amazed by Ace basic fighting abilities even without his logia power. Akoiji is Admiral so... He is beast(lazy one but not sloth ) who almost finished Whitebeard with partisan(if Jozu didnt helped WB we dont know how things would end up..) so he is strong and fast enough to take one best fighters in OP world. Enel have mantra and he can tank a lot of rubber punches and... I dont know One golden ball(bell? :P) in the head and he is out.
But he is very good in using his fruit- comparable to Ace and Aokiji- so that is the most impressive of his fighting abilities beside mantra powered up by his DF power.
Probably some of VA can take him out after some tough fight.

 

[johnnyb7]

no no no, enel can't come back. if he does it'd be a quick scene where luffy would knock him out and that'd take away from how epic enel was during the skypiea arc. he's gonna stay up on the moon i say, and i hope.

 

[Cizuz]

Well I think everyone forgets one simple fact, enel had NO one to ever face him and hurt him prior to that arc, he always devastated and relied on his devil fruit. He also relied on mantra, now that he knows someone is out there capable of doing that maybe he won't be lazy like he was for past 10 years~ with people slaving over him getting lazy and dull with actual fighting ability.

Not that he could improve to the point over luffy, but it seems oda made enel seem the way he did so luffy could win, and possibly have another fight in the future. Think about it, enel was lazy for last 10+ years just being waited on by women. He gets dull, lazy and relied on his DF 100%. It's like oda wanted him to be like that so when luffy fought him his fighting ability would be dull so no real chance, so later one enel will be able to control it more. I don't think he nearly mastered his devil fruit however, some logias can partially transform there body, if enel mastered that he could be lightning, then partially transform a fist into a normal fist and hit luffy, for example. Something like what kizaru does.

 

[kkck]

When was mantra confirmed to be a form of haki? I think I missed that bit....

 

[roxas_strife2]

fcToho provided the link to the scene which I was thinking of (as I said, it's very likely that they used Haki in that scene (considering they're confirmed (by Coby's doctor) to be Haki-user) though it's not confirmed).



There is sparse information of Haki at this point, but nothing I've seen implies that Haki interferes with the Haki-users own Devil Fruit, and I don't see why Akainu's magma body would stop him from using Haki when Luffy's rubber body (or Marco's phoenix body) obviously doesn't.

That being said, Enel used mantra (confirmed to be a form of Haki) in tandem with his lightning logia, so I think you speculating a little too far outside the box here...

I said I don't doubt they can use Haki, but that it wouldn't play as big of a role as their DF powers. When you have DFs that powerful, why would you have to use Haki to hurt Luffy? Luffy's body is still Luffy's body, it's just elastic. He still is an organism, and Marco is too. He never once turned into the blue flames, he generated those flames from his pheonix form. Those who use more energy based elements, such as Ace, Kizaru, and Enel have the ability to generate their element very easily without having to change form along with it, like when Kizaru made that light sword and fought with it. Name one time Enel displayed his mantra being in effect while he wasn't just generating lightning, but in actual lightning form. His powers were almost too quick for there to even be a noticeable difference.

There's just nothing dismissing it.

 

[kkck]

IMO even if you have a DF power, you'd still need haki to hurt luffy properly. Take the fight between lucci and luffy. Luffy took a lot of damage in that fight but a big deal of it was lost simply because he was made of rubber. Had lucci been able to hurt luffy with his attacks as he would anyone else (something haki would apparently enable him to do) luffy would have had a significantly harder time. I don't see luffy surviving a haki charged shigan to the throat for instance.

 

[Wisshard]

When was mantra confirmed to be a form of haki? I think I missed that bit....

When Coby awoke his latent Haki during the war, he displayed it in a manner that was remarkably similar to mantra, and Boa Sandersonia also possess an Haki ability very similar to mantra.
However it hasn't been outright confirmed so I was a little rash...

I said I don't doubt they can use Haki, but that it wouldn't play as big of a role as their DF powers. When you have DFs that powerful, why would you have to use Haki to hurt Luffy? Luffy's body is still Luffy's body, it's just elastic. He still is an organism, and Marco is too. He never once turned into the blue flames, he generated those flames from his pheonix form. Those who use more energy based elements, such as Ace, Kizaru, and Enel have the ability to generate their element very easily without having to change form along with it, like when Kizaru made that light sword and fought with it. Name one time Enel displayed his mantra being in effect while he wasn't just generating lightning, but in actual lightning form. His powers were almost too quick for there to even be a noticeable difference.

There's just nothing dismissing it.

(I'm not sure what you mean with Marco never once turning into blue flames? Marco is a Zoan, he can't turn into blue flames, but generate those flames to heal his wounds.)

We see here and here that Enel can use his mantra in tandem with his lightning logia.

The way I see it, Haki is used constantly when top tiers fights, both to defend and to attack with greater effefiency (i.e. Aokiji battling Whietbeard's Haki to avoid the stab in his gut or Akainu negating the slash from Vista to a small cut) but alas, that is only speculation...

That being said, of course the Admiral's doesn't need Haki to harm the current Luffy but I'd expect them to need Haki to battle the likes of Whitebeard and Shanks, or Enel and Smoker for that matter. However I reckon that physical/fruit/martial prowess is still the most important factor of a fight at higher tiers where most likely everyone has Haki.

 

[roxas_strife2]

When Coby awoke his latent Haki during the war, he displayed it in a manner that was remarkably similar to mantra, and Boa Sandersonia also possess an Haki ability very similar to mantra.
However it hasn't been outright confirmed so I was a little rash...



(I'm not sure what you mean with Marco never once turning into blue flames? Marco is a Zoan, he can't turn into blue flames, but generate those flames to heal his wounds.)

We see here and here that Enel can use his mantra in tandem with his lightning logia.

The way I see it, Haki is used constantly when top tiers fights, both to defend and to attack with greater effefiency (i.e. Aokiji battling Whietbeard's Haki to avoid the stab in his gut or Akainu negating the slash from Vista to a small cut) but alas, that is only speculation...

That being said, of course the Admiral's doesn't need Haki to harm the current Luffy but I'd expect them to need Haki to battle the likes of Whitebeard and Shanks, or Enel and Smoker for that matter. However I reckon that physical/fruit/martial prowess is still the most important factor of a fight at higher tiers where most likely everyone has Haki.

Those examples are of him using mantra then using his lightning form to dodge. None of them are him using Mantra while in actual lightning form. -_-

I talked about Marco because you used Luffy and him as examples of people who have used Haki in tangent with their DF abilities, and I was saying that because Marco is a special case of a Zoan who can generate blue flames, an ability akin to that of a Logia.

 

[Wisshard]

Those examples are of him using mantra then using his lightning form to dodge. None of them are him using Mantra while in actual lightning form. -_-

From what I understood of the scene, Enel started using Mantra and didn't stop using it after an avoided blow and then start again with Luffy's next attack, but rather kept it on constantly as he battles Luffy. Nothing in the scene suggest that Enel can't use Mantra with his lightning form.

 

[roxas_strife2]

From what I understood of the scene, Enel started using Mantra and didn't stop using it after an avoided blow and then start again with Luffy's next attack, but rather kept it on constantly as he battles Luffy. Nothing in the scene suggest that Enel can't use Mantra with his lightning form.

Which is why I said earlier that his abilities are too fast paced to find any notable differences. The man is as fast as a bolt of lightning.

 

[elitefox]

Which is why I said earlier that his abilities are too fast paced to find any notable differences. The man is as fast as a bolt of lightning.

Kisaru is as fast as light

and Rayleigh can keep him lol..


I wonder if enel can keep up with haki

 

[Cizuz]

Kisaru is as fast as light

and Rayleigh can keep him lol..


I wonder if enel can keep up with haki

The major misconception here is assuming Kizaru is as fast as light. The problem is his logia form is light, so he can travel as fast as light during that form. His actual body could not move that fast, he might in mid kick turn part of his leg solid as what he did to basil hawkins.

However when he is light he is basically flying blind, he can pick where he wants to go and move to that area, but at that speed there is absolutely no way for him to react if something goes wrong, the literal electrical signals in his brain could not signal or trigger anything in the brain to react at all.

However rayleigh kept up with him in his solid form, as when kizaru made his blade of light he became tangable, and couldn't move a fraction of what he can in logia form. In light mode he wouldn't of been able to cause much damage without concentrating that light into a laser, what he does when he charges his leg, or makes a sword, however in pure light form if you were to be hit by him, it would be simliar to being hit by normal light, unless he can concentrate his entire body into a movable laser(lol). He is a thinking bullet, sure he can move at light speed, but can't change his direction without stopping first, and can't stop until he thinks about stopping, or stops at his planned destination.

 

[Schabrak]

Please don't put to much science into my beloved One Piece. You, I , we, nobody but Oda knows what characters can do and what not, so please, state it as a theory, but not a fact. Who said Kizaru wouldn't be able to think faster through his Devil Fruit?

 

[Cizuz]

Please don't put to much science into my beloved One Piece. You, I , we, nobody but Oda knows what characters can do and what not, so please, state it as a theory, but not a fact. Who said Kizaru wouldn't be able to think faster through his Devil Fruit?

Because even if his electrical signals were traveling at the speed of light(Close), it would still not register fast enough.

If we can assume in one piece light speed is still 300,000 KM/s, and even if all electrical signals traveled at the speed of light, light hitting the eye, traveling to the brain, then registering, would still take to long. Kizaru any way you look at it is a blind bullet. He can think to kick, and his muscles already are going that route, but could not stop half way if in danger.

It is extrodinairly impressive he can even stay on earth or alive. He is at such a huge disadvantage, if at all he ever makes a mistake he could fire himself into water. Visibly you can see for about 11 KMs on a clear day, if for example he looked and didn't SEE any water, and decided to move in that direction, and there was water 12 km away, he would have about 0.036 milliseconds to respond. He would travel that distance in that time, and would have to respond before that to stop hitting the water and basically becoming a hammer. The average reaction time of a human is around 250 milli seconds, and fastest ever recorded legal reaction time is 100 milli seconds. The time it literally takes the brain to respond to any situation, any data the FASTEST, is 5 milliseconds. That is the fastest POSSIBLE. If Normally your brain registers at around 10 milliseconds, then it decides what to do when seeing new information another 25 milliseconds, then time to actually TELL the body what to do is another 25 milli seconds. The fastest possible reaction should be 65 milli seconds. Period for a human. The house fly reacts at around 20 milli seconds.

However to react at 0.036 milli seconds? implossible.

What kizaru does, is decides where his body NEEDS to go before hand, then makes his body move to that predetermined location. He can not react in between that. His actual body movements out of logia are much much slower then light speed which is why rayliegh could actually fight him.

Even DBZ followed this logic.

 

[Franckie]

I think Enel was easily Aokiji/Ace level, Luffy only beat the crap out of him because he was rubber. Well Enel was basically pretty weak without his fruit, I don't know if the same can be said about Aokiji though....

Enel without his DF is far from a weakling. He can predict attacks via Mantra and his physical abilities are on par with other high-tier fighters.

 

[c0nflikt]

I think Enel if he is ever reintroduced will be even more amazingly powerful, he will have a space pirate crew and space pirating experience. Enel vs a few key characters would = a loss, but look at buggy he goes along and never fights anyone powerful i think a reintroduced enel would be similar and just crush people who had no chance against him.

 

[roxas_strife2]

Because even if his electrical signals were traveling at the speed of light(Close), it would still not register fast enough.

If we can assume in one piece light speed is still 300,000 KM/s, and even if all electrical signals traveled at the speed of light, light hitting the eye, traveling to the brain, then registering, would still take to long. Kizaru any way you look at it is a blind bullet. He can think to kick, and his muscles already are going that route, but could not stop half way if in danger.

It is extrodinairly impressive he can even stay on earth or alive. He is at such a huge disadvantage, if at all he ever makes a mistake he could fire himself into water. Visibly you can see for about 11 KMs on a clear day, if for example he looked and didn't SEE any water, and decided to move in that direction, and there was water 12 km away, he would have about 0.036 milliseconds to respond. He would travel that distance in that time, and would have to respond before that to stop hitting the water and basically becoming a hammer. The average reaction time of a human is around 250 milli seconds, and fastest ever recorded legal reaction time is 100 milli seconds. The time it literally takes the brain to respond to any situation, any data the FASTEST, is 5 milliseconds. That is the fastest POSSIBLE. If Normally your brain registers at around 10 milliseconds, then it decides what to do when seeing new information another 25 milliseconds, then time to actually TELL the body what to do is another 25 milli seconds. The fastest possible reaction should be 65 milli seconds. Period for a human. The house fly reacts at around 20 milli seconds.

However to react at 0.036 milli seconds? implossible.

What kizaru does, is decides where his body NEEDS to go before hand, then makes his body move to that predetermined location. He can not react in between that. His actual body movements out of logia are much much slower then light speed which is why rayliegh could actually fight him.

Even DBZ followed this logic.

Are you referring to Goku's Instant Transmission?

 

[Schabrak]

Because even if his electrical signals were traveling at the speed of light(Close), it would still not register fast enough
... "reality"[edited by me Schabrak] ...
Even DBZ followed this logic.

What about: "Please don't put to much science into my beloved One Piece.", didn't you understand? Don't try to lecture me on physics, I already had that at school and university.-_- Yeah One Piece follows reality to some kind, but with people controling elements, being able to transform into animals or become a rubber man it's clearly a fantasy story, where things follow the authors wishes not the laws of nature. Most of the Rokushiki attacks should not be able, if we follow your logic, like Soru, Rankyaku and Geppou. If Kizaru is made out of light, why would it take him time to think or how is he able to think, if there is no brain to thinks being in thate state? [reth. question fyi]

The only real logic in DBZ was, that high gravity helped people to train and energy blast formed out of their inner power could destroy mountains and later even planets.