Final Jellal Fernandes vs Natsu Dragneel

[Rain Cloud]

Again people are saying Natsu can't use Dragon Force to try and stop him from winning because they have something against the character etc. The him not willing DF argument is ludicrous, he activated it in Tartarus without ingesting anything as a source of power, therefore it was willed. Furthermore, the restrictions clearly state that the combatants aren't hampered by emotions etc., and they can use anything that they've previously shown, so not counting Natsu's Dragon Force is absurd. By the rules etc. Natsu can use Dragon Force, so thats that.

No, the problem isn't whether or not he can will it - he can definitely will it. But leaving it up to speculation as to how strong the DF is like Natsu vs Gildart's hype part II. It's inaccurate ESPECIALLY if FDKM is almost on par with DF - as no other DS have a King Slayer mode. All gaining DF (for me) is that Natsu can go head to head with Jellal's meteor and that's it and that's because we've seen it (even if it was pre-pre ts). There's also no guarantee that Natsu still gets a 3x power boost from DF. It's been, like 300-400 chapters, it could be greater or less. We don't know. If FDKM is 2.5X his base and DF is still only 3x on top of that, there's no way Natsu could win.

@BluePegasus if Wendy can activate DF according to her will at any point of time so why can't Natsu after 1 year training especially he is the first one to activate DF without any outside stimulus.

Oh, I love this.

The same reason why God Serena can't eat his own DF element. See it to believe it.

But, again Natsu should be able to activate DF most likely

 

[Ebony Maw]

He saw Gray falling and he activated DF.Wendy can do it anytime.If we say Natsu can't do it it will be going against truth.

Wouldn't that still constitute as an outside stimulus though? I'm not saying he can't in this (already been ruled by Holt), but him seeing Gray fall would have triggered an emotional response right?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 27, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 27, 2016 ---

I'm also bringing this back up:

During the Jellal vs OS fight, Angel says (or something similar too) "No... this is a-" and then Racer finishes by saying "A Solid Seal?". Now Racer (given the speed he's shown) should have been able to dodge GC but instead he was glued to his spot. After this I don't recall anyone moving away from Grand Chariot, including Neinhart. Maybe it's a bit shaky (not sure what the raw says, if anyone could translate I'd really appreciate it) but I think Jellal has modified his Grand Chariot so that his opponent can't escape it.

Raw: http://img.one-piece.top//img/7/3696.jpg

Feel free to tear this to pieces if it's wrong lol, just something that I thought would be worth bringing up.

 

[Arjuna]

No, the problem isn't whether or not he can will it - he can definitely will it. But leaving it up to speculation as to how strong the DF is like Natsu vs Gildart's hype part II. It's inaccurate ESPECIALLY if FDKM is almost on par with DF - as no other DS have a King Slayer mode. All gaining DF (for me) is that Natsu can go head to head with Jellal's meteor and that's it and that's because we've seen it (even if it was pre-pre ts). There's also no guarantee that Natsu still gets a 3x power boost from DF. It's been, like 300-400 chapters, it could be greater or less.



Oh, I love this.

The same reason why God Serena can't eat his own DF element. See it to believe it.

But, again Natsu should be able to activate DF most likely

DF is straight cut mentioned as the highest form a Dragon Slayer can achieve.DF also gives more Dragonization.Only IgNatsu may be stronger than DF.DF>FDKM.

 

[Brandish μ]

Yeah I wanted to put them equal at first, but I'd still give it to Jellal due to Abyss Break. Not to forget that he can blitz attack Natsu once he uses Meteor, just like he did against Racer.

AB is probably not going to be Sema-level, but I will say it's a strong spell. Not sure how quick it is, maybe it's like Hades using Amaterasu 100.

Meteor is fast, but I think Natsu can handle it without getting blitzed all the time (he'll be slower). But if he enters dragon force, Natsu will blitz Jellal in Meteor.

Good point, although I don't think he'll destroy Sema with the same ease as he did with Ikasutsunagi. It won't matter anyway, Jellal has still Grand Chariot, Altaris and Abyss Break to do the thing.

Well it will come down to whose attack is stronger anyways, Jellal's might win out. Natsu has his spells to beat GC/AB/Altaris

Lol, these are hilarious. Brandish could revolutionise emoji's.

 

[Arjuna]

Wouldn't that still constitute as an outside stimulus though? I'm not saying he can't in this (already been ruled by Holt), but him seeing Gray fall would have triggered an emotional response right?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 27, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 27, 2016 ---

I'm also bringing this back up:

During the Jellal vs OS fight, Angel says (or something similar too) "No... this is a-" and then Racer finishes by saying "A Solid Seal?". Now Racer (given the speed he's shown) should have been able to dodge GC but instead he was glued to his spot. After this I don't recall anyone moving away from Grand Chariot, including Neinhart. Maybe it's a bit shaky (not sure what the raw says, if anyone could translate I'd really appreciate it) but I think Jellal has modified his Grand Chariot so that his opponent can't escape it.

Raw: http://img.one-piece.top//img/7/3696.jpg

Feel free to tear this to pieces if it's wrong lol, just something that I thought would be worth bringing up.

Wendy can do it according to her will.So you really think Wendy can do but Natsu can't.And outside stimulus here means outside element.

 

[Ebony Maw]

Wendy can do it according to her will.So you really think Wendy can do but Natsu can't.And outside stimulus here means outside element.

I didn't say that, I was asking how Natsu activating it whilst Gray was in danger/as he fell doesn't fall under an outside stimulus? It's not like I was questioning his skill or mastery of DS mastery, I was questioning the circumstances.

 

[Arjuna]

I didn't say that, I was asking how Natsu activating it whilst Gray was in danger/as he fell doesn't fall under an outside stimulus? It's not like I was questioning his skill or mastery of DS mastery, I was questioning the circumstances.

Wendy can do according to her will without any outside influence.So it's simple Natsu can do it too.Here by outside influence i mean the situation similar to Gray

 

[Ebony Maw]

Wendy can do according to her will without any outside influence.So it's simple Natsu can do it too.Here by outside influence i mean the situation similar to Gray

Just because Wendy can do it shouldn't mean that Natsu can otherwise that's giving him feats he doesn't have. So far has Natsu proved he can activate DF without an outside influence? This counts Gray too because that would trigger an emotional response that he can't replicate against Jellal.

 

[Rain Cloud]

Wendy can do according to her will without any outside influence.So it's simple Natsu can do it too.Here by outside influence i mean the situation similar to Gray

If God Serena cannot eat flames of his own type even though all other dragon slayers can, then Natsu cannot will dragon force, simply because another character can.

He can however do it because we've seen it ("supposedly" - he mentioned that the dragon force was from "Igneel's power", so if he's referring to FDKM type power, than yes, if it's the Igneel flames that are gone, then no)

 

[Shoutmon]

Just because Wendy can do it shouldn't mean that Natsu can otherwise that's giving him feats he doesn't have. So far has Natsu proved he can activate DF without an outside influence? This counts Gray too because that would trigger an emotional response that he can't replicate against Jellal.

Emotional barriers are removed in this tournament, so Natsu doesn't need an emotional response to enter DF.

 

[Ebony Maw]

Emotional barriers are removed in this tournament, so Natsu doesn't need an emotional response to enter DF.

What? That rule doesn't affect anyone else to my knowledge, why is that rule in place? Who needed that?

 

[Rain Cloud]

Emotional barriers are removed in this tournament, so Natsu doesn't need an emotional response to enter DF.

The issue is less of emotional barriers and more so if Natsu willed it with his own power. If you look again at the fight, after Mard Geer looks shocked at Dragon Force, Natsu states that it is igneel's power that's allowed him to do that. That could mean one of many things:

1. He simply meant Fire DS magic, that he already has
2. He meant the flames he uses for FDKM, which he still has
3. He Meant the flames that became the Igneel flames for his fight against Zeref, which he does not have

Although, it's likely that he can will DF, the argument is that he cannot because we have not explicitly and clearly seen it.

 

[Ebony Maw]

The issue is less of emotional barriers and more so if Natsu willed it with his own power. If you look again at the fight, after Mard Geer looks shocked at Dragon Force, Natsu states that it is igneel's power that's allowed him to do that. That could mean one of many things:

1. He simply meant Fire DS magic, that he already has
2. He meant the flames he uses for FDKM, which he still has
3. He Meant the flames that became the Igneel flames for his fight against Zeref, which he does not have

Although, it's likely that he can will DF, the argument is that he cannot because we have not explicitly and clearly seen it.

He'd also just seen one of his friends being hurt and we all know how much he values his friends.

 

[Shoutmon]

What? That rule doesn't affect anyone else to my knowledge, why is that rule in place? Who needed that?

I think it was put in place to allow characters to fight at their full power against people who they wouldn't normally want to hurt, like for example Natsu would hold back when fighting Lucy, so the result of their fight wouldn't be accurate, now this rule prevents that.

The issue is less of emotional barriers and more so if Natsu willed it with his own power. If you look again at the fight, after Mard Geer looks shocked at Dragon Force, Natsu states that it is igneel's power that's allowed him to do that. That could mean one of many things:

1. He simply meant Fire DS magic, that he already has
2. He meant the flames he uses for FDKM, which he still has
3. He Meant the flames that became the Igneel flames for his fight against Zeref, which he does not have

Although, it's likely that he can will DF, the argument is that he cannot because we have not explicitly and clearly seen it.

I doubt it's Igneel's power as, like @SaberToothFan said, he had just witnessed his friend seemingly die, so of course he would be enraged and draw out more power as a result, and as it has already been established, excess power leads to DF.

 

[Ebony Maw]

I think it was put in place to allow characters to fight at their full power against people who they wouldn't normally want to hurt, like for example Natsu would hold back when fighting Lucy, so the result of their fight wouldn't be accurate, now this rule prevents that.

Wouldn't a much better rule have been to apply morals but have characters act as if they don't know each other? I'm kind of confused here lol. Thanks for clarifying though.

 

[Tirl]

M.Attack: Natsu >= Jellal (Natsu use fire, it is still magic but also and ph. attack, Jellal's spells are definitely physical)
F.Attack: Natsu < Jellal (GC, Sema and meteor are physical)
Defense: Natsu < Jellal
Stamina: Natsu >>> Jellal (Natsu is main character, nothing to say)
Speed: Natsu << Jellal
Versatility: Natsu > Jellal (In this battle Natsu's fire is more suitable than many different spells from Jellal)
Intelligence: Natsu > Jellal (Yeah, I am fuckin serious)
MP: Natsu <<< Jellal (Jellal is far above than more wizzards in manga)

Natsu = Jellal

Natsu will win.
Difficult - 10\10

Spoiler: Real Fight

PS. Abyss Break oneshot Natsu in the begining.

 

[Rain Cloud]

I think it was put in place to allow characters to fight at their full power against people who they wouldn't normally want to hurt, like for example Natsu would hold back when fighting Lucy, so the result of their fight wouldn't be accurate, now this rule prevents that.


I doubt it's Igneel's power as, like @SaberToothFan said, he had just witnessed his friend seemingly die, so of course he would be enraged and draw out more power as a result, and as it has already been established, excess power leads to DF.

No. He explicitly states "This is power from Igneel" right after Mard Geer questions his entrance into Dragon Force.

 

[Nemispelled]

Eh, whatever....

I don't care, sure, put me down for Natsu wins mid-high diff.

 

[Shoutmon]

No. He explicitly states "This is power from Igneel" right after Mard Geer questions his entrance into Dragon Force.

He states that the secret art that he was about to use was directly inherited from Igneel, not the power-up.

 

[Arjuna]

Just because Wendy can do it shouldn't mean that Natsu can otherwise that's giving him feats he doesn't have. So far has Natsu proved he can activate DF without an outside influence? This counts Gray too because that would trigger an emotional response that he can't replicate against Jellal.

If God Serena cannot eat flames of his own type even though all other dragon slayers can, then Natsu cannot will dragon force, simply because another character can.

He can however do it because we've seen it ("supposedly" - he mentioned that the dragon force was from "Igneel's power", so if he's referring to FDKM type power, than yes, if it's the Igneel flames that are gone, then no)

In Gajeel's flashback it is revealed Wendy can do it after training.Igneel's power can only be used once(against Zeref).Natsu fills this criteria.And Natsu has the most training along with Laxus.And he is also the first Dragon Slayer who can enter DF without any element onscreen.