Semifinal - Mereoleona Vermillion vs. Yami Sukehiro | Page 3 | MangaHelpers



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Semifinal Mereoleona Vermillion vs. Yami Sukehiro

Who Wins?

  • Mereoleona Vermillion

  • Yami Sukehiro


The results of this poll are hidden until it is manually edited by the user or site admin.

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LadyVados

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Exactly this. Unless Mereleona learns a whole new type of magic.
Mereoleona has always struck me as more of a reinforcement magic user than a fire magic user. Maybe some sort of enhanced version of Reinforcement Magic ? Angelic/Divine Reinforcement Magic ? (Kind of the opposite of Vetto’s demon beast magic)
 

Ramen

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Mereoleona has always struck me as more of a reinforcement magic user than a fire magic user. Maybe some sort of enhanced version of Reinforcement Magic ? Angelic/Divine Reinforcement Magic ? (Kind of the opposite of Vetto’s demon beast magic)
That is the biggest fanfic I've ever seen.
 

LadyVados

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That is the biggest fanfic I've ever seen.
Anyway it’s pointless to this topic. Yami is no devil. You don’t need arcane magic to beat him. Mereoleona claps.
 

HereNThere

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This is about assuming battle matchups, not assuming one’s strength level. If that was the case I could make a random argument for a lot of the cast who haven’t shown a thing yet.
Again, everything we're arguing about is random since we don't know how these match ups would actually play out in the series itself.

Saying he has a main character growth rate would be to show he grows more than other side characters...Just like when he developed the dimension slash mid fight, or he learned mana zone mid fight. If Mero appears again she probably wouldn’t have grown as much as him. You said there’s nothing to say she hasn’t grown as much as him, but the reverse is true. What even implies she’s grown as much as him? Someone like Yami who consistently grows when he’s back is against the wall, while Meroleona hasn’t shown that quality.
He's developed in battle, but it's not an everyday thing. He doesn't bust out new spells every time he fights. We can only go with what we know. We can't just add "limitless growth" to his moveset because that isn't a feasable argument and it isn't fair for this tournement where we are using what they've only shown currently.

I know the reverse is true, the point is we can't make that call because she hasn't shown up and we don't know how much she, or any of the other Captains, have developed over these past few months.

You can 100% gauge a gap between them pre skip, you simply have to compare their feats. I’d argue by the end of elf arc Yami is on her level, which wasn’t the case at the start of the arc.

You could easily argue that Mero was above Yami at the start of the Elf arc, mainly due to her insane mana zone, but Yami caught up a lot by the end. She doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt about Dante, especially since he’s this arc’s strongest antagonist. Her being a royal doesn’t mean much to me, as Yami isn’t that far off and has better magic than Meroleona in general.
If we compare their feats, Mereoleona still had the best feats by the end of the arc between the two. I don't see how Yami caught up. He demonstrated Mana Zone by the end, but that doesn't mean he was on her level. Yuno did the same thing and he certainly wasn't on her level yet.

Her being a Royal should mean something as the mana it provides is a part of her arsenal. Nevermind the fact that Royals being stronger naturally is one of the main themes of the series and the key cause of discrimination in their world. I can't say anything about him having better magic as that's largely subjective. It doesn't take away the fact that her magic is strong either way.

Meroleona doesn’t have any current feats, and seeing how dominant Yami was against the arc’s strongest antagonist she doesn’t benefit of the doubt.
I mean, if that's what you think, that's fine but I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt given how strong she was. As I said, aside from Black Moon, nothing Yami did isn't anything different than what Mereo could already do.

Referring to how he was also able to fight on par with Patolli, and Lolopechka's comment about possessing the potential to defeat a devil, where she name checks both him and Julius.
Patolli, at that point in time, was not only holding back, but he himself stated his combat ability was inferior to Rhya, Vetto, and Fana. Patolli is strong,

And, as stated, those two were just examples of individuals who don't have "natural" magic who's nature appear to be inherently harmful to devils. As we saw when Yami first went up Zagred and was the only person among Charla and Licht who could harm him. In that same chapter, they were used as the lead up to introduce the concept of Arcane Stage Mages.
 

LadyVados

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Didn’t Yami say Nozel had more mana than him as a royal ? And Rhya said Mereoleona’s mana levels were abnormal even for a royal (in fact he seemed to imply she had even more mana than an elf which arguably puts her mana levels on devil level) At the very least she should be like Lumiere, above all elves except Licht. Heck Vetto’s statement about Noelle having the mana of a royal strongly implied Mereoleona’s mana levels were higher than Noelle’s who has Julius-level mana levels by word of god.
 

Rikudou King

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Julius was far above Patri and was going easy on him. Them being used as an example doesn't really mean anything. Anyone in that very general area has the potential to defeat a devil.

That doesn't mean they're on par.
And Yami wasn't? Based on what we saw of him before the timeskip, what would suggest he also wasn't above Patolli? Again, he was capable of fighting a high-rank devil at that time. And even against Patolli, he was directly compared to Julius...


But that's not true as we've been shown - It's not simply being an Arcane stage, as Asta originally, Secre, and William all showed, not to mention the various Golden Dawn members like Klaus. Her comment clearly suggest that not anyone could do so, else there wouldn't be a reason to state "some" after talking about those with unnatural magic. And perhaps you can say it was just an example, but it's a strange example to list the strongest example alongside some random example.

Patolli, at that point in time, was not only holding back, but he himself stated his combat ability was inferior to Rhya, Vetto, and Fana. Patolli is strong,
Even using that logic, the overall point remains, since Yami also basically one-shotted Vetto during that time. So whichever one you consider the better fighter, Yami was shown capable of fighting them.

And, as stated, those two were just examples of individuals who don't have "natural" magic who's nature appear to be inherently harmful to devils. As we saw when Yami first went up Zagred and was the only person among Charla and Licht who could harm him. In that same chapter, they were used as the lead up to introduce the concept of Arcane Stage Mages.
By her own comment, and by what we actually saw, not everyone with unnatural magic would be an Arcane stage. And true, Yami was one Zagred considered dangerous. He was also the only Arcane stage named to overpower a devil. So I do think the take-away was a comparison, especially since they've been compared in the past.
 

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Even using that logic, the overall point remains, since Yami also basically one-shotted Vetto during that time. So whichever one you consider the better fighter, Yami was shown capable of fighting them.
Yami didn't do the lion's share of work to weaken Vetto. Asta, Noelle, Vanessa, and Finral did. Yami came in and finished him off when he was about to self destruct. We didn't see anything implying that, in a direct fight, Yami would match Vetto at that point in time.

By her own comment, and by what we actually saw, not everyone with unnatural magic would be an Arcane stage. And true, Yami was one Zagred considered dangerous. He was also the only Arcane stage named to overpower a devil. So I do think the take-away was a comparison, especially since they've been compared in the past.
Not every unnatural mage would be Arcane stage, yes, which is why she specified Julius and Yami as examples as those in particular who could would be considered Arcane. And, again, Secre and Asta were also apart of that same list as she continued her line of thought in the next page. In the official translation, she even states that Julius is an example.

It's completely unnecessary for that sort of comparison between Julius and Yami at that point and time given the topic of discussion, which is revealing examples of specific Arcane stage mages within Clover that can inherently harm a devil.

It makes even more sense when you consider that Loro is giving them examples of individuals they are particularly close to, their Captain and Magic Emperor, the man who spearheaded their mission.
 
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Rikudou King

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Yami didn't do the lion's share of work to weaken Vetto. Asta, Noelle, Vanessa, and Finral did. Yami came in and finished him off when he was about to self destruct. We didn't see anything implying that, in a direct fight, Yami would match Vetto at that point in time.
But he wasn't "weaken", based on how his magic works via his rage. And we saw not only how durable his magic is against attacks, but how durable he himself was - all of which Yami easily sliced through with a single strike. And given the whole point of that display was that regardless of protection, Yami could cut through because he can cut through dimensions, what defense could counter that? He was even able to slice a devil in half. The only question that would need to be answered would be whether he could land a hit, and with his perceptive ability that wouldn't be impossible.

Not every unnatural mage would be Arcane stage, yes, which is why she specified Julius and Yami as examples as those in particular who could would be considered Arcane. And, again, Secre and Asta were also apa rt of that same list as she continued her line of thought in the next page. In the official translation, she even states that Julius is an example.

It's completely unnecessary for that sort of comparison between Julius and Yami at that point and time given the topic of discussion, which is revealing examples of specific Arcane stage mages within Clover that can inherently harm a devil.

It makes even more sense when you consider that Loro is giving them examples of individuals they are particularly close to, their Captain and Magic Emperor, the man who spearheaded their mission.
Well my point was it was an interesting choice to choose those specific two, though I guess the argument that she picked those they personally knew would also make sense. That said, I don't think it would have been unnecessary, given how Yami ended up with the best showing despite them all training.
 

Ramen

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And Yami wasn't? Based on what we saw of him before the timeskip, what would suggest he also wasn't above Patolli? Again, he was capable of fighting a high-rank devil at that time. And even against Patolli, he was directly compared to Julius...

But that's not true as we've been shown - It's not simply being an Arcane stage, as Asta originally, Secre, and William all showed, not to mention the various Golden Dawn members like Klaus. Her comment clearly suggest that not anyone could do so, else there wouldn't be a reason to state "some" after talking about those with unnatural magic. And perhaps you can say it was just an example, but it's a strange example to list the strongest example alongside some random example.
Yami was not messing around with Patri the way Julius was. Julius was laughing the whole time and it even admitted to not wanting to hurt Williams body.

Of all the captains that use arcane type magic, Yami is the strongest. That doesn't mean she was directly comparing the strength of the two.
 

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Yami was not messing around with Patri the way Julius was. Julius was laughing the whole time and it even admitted to not wanting to hurt Williams body.

Of all the captains that use arcane type magic, Yami is the strongest. That doesn't mean she was directly comparing the strength of the two.
We've seen Yami when he's fighting seriously, like against Zagred. So while he wasn't as carefree as Julius, he wasn't treating it like a life and death situation.

Well as said, even if that specifically wasn't the case, we had other examples making such a comparison. Regardless, that was my point, that Yami was shown above the other captains, whereas Mereoleona does not have that same hype or feats.
 

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We've seen Yami when he's fighting seriously, like against Zagred. So while he wasn't as carefree as Julius, he wasn't treating it like a life and death situation.

Well as said, even if that specifically wasn't the case, we had other examples making such a comparison. Regardless, that was my point, that Yami was shown above the other captains, whereas Mereoleona does not have that same hype or feats.
It’s not like she effortlessly restrained Yami and Charlotte at the same time or anything...

The fact that Black Asta went straight for her proves she has much more mana than Yami.
 
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