Round of 16 - Mira vs. Gray | Page 2 | MangaHelpers



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Round of 16 Mira vs. Gray

Who wins?

  • Mirajane Strauss

    Votes: 20 38.5%
  • Gray Fullbuster

    Votes: 32 61.5%

  • Total voters
    52
  • Poll closed .
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Seven777

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Gray takes it. Mashima apparently still wants us to think Mira is powerful, but he's never willing to show it. We all know Gray is beating Skullion too. As for Gray's darkness powerup, it's something he unlocked, he should still have it, no different to how Sting kept his powerup after Lector "died", no rage or anger needed. Mashima just likes to shaft Gray too in the early stages, but Gray always gets his due, eventually.
 

grey matter

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Mirajane outstats Gray without POF, but once you factor in devil slaying magic and POF, Gray's really on a different level. I'm going to go with Gray, high diff. Extreme diff is a bit much.
If slayer advantage was applicable, Gray one shots her instead of winning mid-high diff against exhausted Mira + Elfman. Considering what it did to Mard, who was many tier above Gray. While peak Mira is arguably DeS Gray tier

So, I don't think slayer advantage worked there.

Gajeel isn't above Mira either. These two need PoF and asspull boosts to beat a S12. Mira didn't. :epicfacepalm
Mira needed plot armour (yeah nobody is convincing me that Jacob couldn't just go invis and clap to end fight within 2 seconds instead of fighting CQC) and Jacob nerfing himself by tying his eyes.

Not better than Gajeel and Gray needing boosts to beat their respective Spriggans.
 

Jko

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If slayer advantage was applicable, Gray one shots her instead of winning mid-high diff against exhausted Mira + Elfman. Considering what it did to Mard, who was many tier above Gray. While peak Mira is arguably DeS Gray tier

So, I don't think slayer advantage worked there.



Mira needed plot armour (yeah nobody is convincing me that Jacob couldn't just go invis and clap to end fight within 2 seconds instead of fighting CQC) and Jacob nerfing himself by tying his eyes.

Not better than Gajeel and Gray needing boosts to beat their respective Spriggans.
Stop, saying plot armor when there was zero increase in power from Mira is bs lol. Jacob did go invisible, Mira still beat him while invisible :XD. Jacob fought Mira the same way he fought Natsu so him not using his hax is a moot point. Also literally none of the S12 use their hax to the fullest, this was shown countless times. If you want discount Mira's feats then we could do the same for Gajeel, Gray, and everyone else in Alvarez. Jacob wasn't nerfed in any capacity. He also literally stated he can see presences which is how he was landing shots on Mira. Closing your eyes also doesn't decrease stats in the slightest. Not being able to use your full MP = a nerf, not using using your eyes or hax =/= a nerf. Only person who was nerfed was Mira.

Beating a S12 while weakened is far better than beating one with a PoF/asspull power boost lmao.
 

grey matter

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Stop, saying plot armor when there was zero increase in power from Mira is bs lol. Jacob did go invisible, Mira still beat him while invisible :XD. Jacob fought Mira the same way he fought Natsu so him not using his hax is a moot point. Also literally none of the S12 use their hax to the fullest, this was shown countless times. If you want discount Mira's feats then we could do the same for Gajeel, Gray, and everyone else in Alvarez. Jacob wasn't nerfed in any capacity. He also literally stated he can see presences which is how he was landing shots on Mira. Closing your eyes also doesn't decrease stats in the slightest. Not being able to use your full MP = a nerf, not using using your eyes or hax =/= a nerf. Only person who was nerfed was Mira.

Beating a S12 while weakened is far better than beating one with a PoF/asspull power boost lmao.
Yea, he went invisible and ran around instead of clapping - plot armour
He was nerfed in that fight because he tied his eyes. It doesn't affect stats, but it affects how effective you are in battle. Yea he can sense and fight, still inferior to fighting with eyes open.

Natsu fought Jacob in his base because he was in guild halls, so Jacob not clapping evens out. Natsu is too powerful for clap hax to work when he's in FDKM. FDKM Natsu > all good guys except Gildarts

Invel used everything in his arsenal against Gray - ice lock, underworld ice etc, effectively. Invel wasn't affected by CIS, he simply got destroyed by darkness Gray, which was hinted earlier as a thing, but sure still an asspull (just less asspullish)

I agree Bradman vs Gajeel was CIS. He could've used Kyouka's hax, or Franmath's ability of magic absorption etc.
But at least he didn't nerf himself lmao. Jacob nerfed himself on top of CIS of not using clap hax

Mira was nerfed too, but so what? Jacob's nerf evens it out. And without CIS he one shots anyway,
 

Axiomus

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If slayer advantage was applicable, Gray one shots her instead of winning mid-high diff against exhausted Mira + Elfman. Considering what it did to Mard, who was many tier above Gray. While peak Mira is arguably DeS Gray tier

So, I don't think slayer advantage worked there.
If he could have oneshotted her, he would have. Ice-Make Silver would have gotten the job done without hurting Mirajane. Mirajane would have to be decently above DeS Gray given their respective performance against Skullion.
 

Ronin31

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f slayer advantage was applicable, Gray one shots her instead of winning mid-high diff against exhausted Mira + Elfman. Considering what it did to Mard, who was many tier above Gray. While peak Mira is arguably DeS Gray tier

So, I don't think slayer advantage worked there.
Yes, This is why I think he didn't use it. Too dangerous.

Mirajane can be as strong as Grey using his DS, but this magic is too deadly. Mard is your good exemple. And we have to think that Mirajane was certainly < 50% of her stats. Assuming that Gray did all his self vs 50% Mirajane in classic Ice Make is relevant as I see her far stronger than him. Thinking that Gray hardly countered 50% Mira with DS is ridiculous while he forced Mard to perform his Etherious form without being still demonized in the past, a character who was highly above him in stats, just like Gildarts and Natsu on Tenrô. This gap was massively superior to current Gray and Mira.

Why Slayer's advantage doesn't work here ? Mira takes Demon's body to fight. She is pure demon while using her Magic.

You can spend all your magic without using your strongest mode. If you use all your magic to the point you can't continue, you give all you have. It's physical. Natsu who was exaust to the point he asked Gajeel to stop the fight, spent a lot of his reserve. Did he use his strongest Mode vs him ?
 
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Axiomus

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Yes, This is why I think he didn't use it. Too dangerous.

Mirajane can be as strong as Grey using his DS, but this magic is too deadly. Mard is your good exemple. And we have to think that Mirajane was certainly < 50% of her stats. Assuming that Gray did all his self vs 50% Mirajane in classic Ice Make is relevant as I see her far stronger than him. Thinking that Gray hardly countered 50% Mira with DS is ridiculous while he forced Mard to perform his Etherious form without being still demonized in the past, a character who was highly above him in stats, just like Gildarts and Natsu on Tenrô. This gap was massively superior to current Gray and Mira.

Why Slayer's advantage doesn't work here ? Mira takes Demon's body to fight. She is pure demon while using her Magic.

You can spend all your magic without using your strongest mode. If you use all your magic to the point you can't continue, you give all you have. It's physical. Natsu who was exaust to the point he asked Gajeel to stop the fight, spent a lot of his reserve. Did he use his strongest Mode vs him ?
The "it's too dangerous" argument doesn't work because Gray can simply freeze Mirajane. Mard Geer didn't just keel over and die when Gray froze him with devil slaying magic. Gray actually had to shoot him with zero destruction bow. If Devil Slaying Ice is so effective that it could oneshot Mirajane, there's simply no reason Gray wouldn't try something like Ice-Make: Silver to win quickly. Mirajane isn't a real demon either. She's using a takeover, and so there's a good chance that Gray's devil slaying magic would work in a similar fashion to how Chelia's god slaying magic worked against Dimaria.

Mirajane isn't just as strong as Gray with DES. She's flat out stronger given that she managed to stalemate Skullion. The difference between Mirajane and Gray should be similar to the difference between Skullion and Gray, and this is not an insignificant difference.
 

Ronin31

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The difference between Mirajane and Gray should be similar to the difference between Skullion and Gray, and this is not an insignificant difference.
Stalemating AoE attack on the point to erase Elmina and dodging attacks while not being in the Ocean are two different ways to fight same foe.
Both Grey and Mirajane were ineffective with their attacks. Mirajane only could last longer as she could move freely on the ground and use her speed and agility, forcing Skullion to spend Magic until begin to be weaker-exaust. This is the result of the stalemate, nullifying both side attacks because no attacks from Mira could touch him : physical and blast. Or show me a panel about her damaging him.

So, for me, no, the gap between Mirajane and Gray, never mind who is above, is not that far.
 

Axiomus

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Stalemating AoE attack on the point to erase Elmina and dodging attacks while not being in the Ocean are two different ways to fight same foe.
Both Grey and Mirajane were ineffective with their attacks. Mirajane only could last longer as she could move freely on the ground and use her speed and agility, forcing Skullion to spend Magic until begin to be weaker-exaust. This is the result of the stalemate, nullifying both side attacks because no attacks from Mira could touch him : physical and blast. Or show me a panel about her damaging him.

So, for me, no, the gap between Mirajane and Gray, never mind who is above, is not that far.
What? I don't understand your point about AOE and dodging attacks. Skullion is just as capable of using his ash above water. While it's easier to move on air, I'm not inclined to believe Gray could have dodged Skullions attacks anyways. Also Mirajane can fly, which means she has the agility advantage on land regardless.

Mirajane's attacks were effective. Skullion was covered in scratches by the end of the fight. And more importantly, Madmole was also damaged.
 

**Silver**

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Pof darkness Gray wins Easy-difficulty
 

Ronin31

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What? I don't understand your point about AOE and dodging attacks. Skullion is just as capable of using his ash above water. While it's easier to move on air, I'm not inclined to believe Gray could have dodged Skullions attacks anyways. Also Mirajane can fly, which means she has the agility advantage on land regardless.
I only wanted to tell that it is easier to dodge attacks on the ground rathen than in water. Gray had handicap in mobility.
Why couldn't Gray dodge Skullion's attacks ? In DS, his speed increase to great point. Look at his fight vs Raijinshuu. She has certainly average about fly and agility, that Gray can counterpart with Shield lowing attacks enough to give him time to dodge as well.

About AoE, Skullion didn't used AoE city size on Mirajane to try to erase her. Madmole was close too, and he should be erase as well.
Grey could counter his AoE Elmina's size with his Silver, before being bypass by Black Ashes.

Like I said, Gray and Mira have different ways to fight, but they are closer than you think. If we take account his Darkness (potential because he can't use at will), he is far stronger than Mira. I can see them in same tier without it. Gray has my vote.
 

grey matter

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If he could have oneshotted her, he would have. Ice-Make Silver would have gotten the job done without hurting Mirajane. Mirajane would have to be decently above DeS Gray given their respective performance against Skullion.
How strong do you think Mira was relative to Gray?

The way I see it, DeS Gray is 70% Mira at worst. I don't see him being anywhere below that in stats, compared to Mira. In all likeliness, Gray is closer than that.

While x791 Gray was like 10% Etherious Mard in stats lol, yet he one shotted him the moment he got a clean blow.
Why 10%? Cause DeS Gray ~ LFD Natsu, and BASE Mard tanked everything LFD Natsu had to offer without even flinching. He was laughing like it didn't even tickle.

Point being, if slayer advantage was applicable, Gray one shots Mira, considering precedence from Mard. There is no other way around it.

Yes, This is why I think he didn't use it. Too dangerous.

Mirajane can be as strong as Grey using his DS, but this magic is too deadly. Mard is your good exemple. And we have to think that Mirajane was certainly < 50% of her stats. Assuming that Gray did all his self vs 50% Mirajane in classic Ice Make is relevant as I see her far stronger than him. Thinking that Gray hardly countered 50% Mira with DS is ridiculous while he forced Mard to perform his Etherious form without being still demonized in the past, a character who was highly above him in stats, just like Gildarts and Natsu on Tenrô. This gap was massively superior to current Gray and Mira.

Why Slayer's advantage doesn't work here ? Mira takes Demon's body to fight. She is pure demon while using her Magic.

You can spend all your magic without using your strongest mode. If you use all your magic to the point you can't continue, you give all you have. It's physical. Natsu who was exaust to the point he asked Gajeel to stop the fight, spent a lot of his reserve. Did he use his strongest Mode vs him ?
The way I see it:
Scenario 1 - slayer magic is applicable and he fought in base
Scenario 2 - slayer magic isn't applicable and he fought in DeS mode
Scenario 3 - slayer magic is applicable and he fought in DeS mode

The third scenario is impossible, considering he needed mid-high diff. If it was applicable and he used DeS mode, it's an easy one shot

You are talking about scenario 1, which is plausible. I'm talking about scenario 2, which is also plausible. Both arguments have their strengths and weaknesses. We don't know for sure cause Mashima never bothered to show us.
 

Ronin31

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How strong do you think Mira was relative to Gray?

The way I see it, DeS Gray is 70% Mira at worst. I don't see him being anywhere below that in stats, compared to Mira. In all likeliness, Gray is closer than that.

While x791 Gray was like 10% Etherious Mard in stats lol, yet he one shotted him the moment he got a clean blow.
Why 10%? Cause DeS Gray ~ LFD Natsu, and BASE Mard tanked everything LFD Natsu had to offer without even flinching. He was laughing like it didn't even tickle.

Point being, if slayer advantage was applicable, Gray one shots Mira, considering precedence from Mard. There is no other way around it.



The way I see it:
Scenario 1 - slayer magic is applicable and he fought in base
Scenario 2 - slayer magic isn't applicable and he fought in DeS mode
Scenario 3 - slayer magic is applicable and he fought in DeS mode

The third scenario is impossible, considering he needed mid-high diff. If it was applicable and he used DeS mode, it's an easy one shot

You are talking about scenario 1, which is plausible. I'm talking about scenario 2, which is also plausible. Both arguments have their strengths and weaknesses. We don't know for sure cause Mashima never bothered to show us.
Yes, I clearly agree with all of that.

The fact here, for me, is that Mira and Gray are close level. I can't see Mira >>> Gray. I like her, she is strong, but we don't have to underestimate Gray as well. He has very good stats and is versatile as well.
 

grey matter

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I'm still on the fence lol.

Discounting slayer advantage (which I have reasons to believe isn't applicable), this fight can go either way.

Was leaning Gray first, but now leaning Mira lol
 

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I think it's the most difficult battle to answer since the beginning of the Tournament. Yes, can go either way. Potentially Gray is smarter and more strategic. With close strength, that can decide the issue. And Gray has more hidden potential (Darkness).

Stay on Gray for now.
 

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Mira and Gray heads over to the Erza and Jellal thread to stomp them then make out to celebrate their epic victory :blush:handgun

I think both Gray and Mira have been two of the most likeable and unfortunately, neglected characters. In Mira's case especially, she hasn't had much on-screen feats. If it's up to me, I would hope they both advance. But since it's come down to this, if I have to pick one to advance then my votes goes to Gray.

My decision doesn't involve guesswork around questions like Gray should win because Mira is vulnerable to demon slaying magic, or Gray has already beaten Mira along with Elfman. Or Mira should win because she and Elfman could stalemate Skullion and Madmole. If we remove the hype and portrayal and assess only their feats, Gray comes out top as the more impressive fighter if I'm being honest.

I have seen a few posts that Mira has the speed advantage because she can fly. But I think the flight advantage is overstated. There are even a few posts that claimed Gray is slow. That couldn't be any further from the truth. Gray is capable of very swift movement that allows him to travel faster than the eye can follow. He vanished without a trace then reappeared behind Bixlow and Evergreen who had their eyes locked on Gray and were several meters away, before either of them could even perceive wtf happen. The visual imagery is reminiscent to Mest's and Minerva's teleportation magic, except Gray could achieve it with his raw speed.


It happens that Ever also has the ability to fly too.



Gray has the reflexes to evade fast-moving attacks such as a laser from one of the god seeds who powered up after absorbing Juvia.


He could blitz Invel and Skullion with zeroth longsword before either of them could react despite knowing the attack is coming.


Skullion himself is fast enough to evade multiple attacks from an enraged Mira.



And eventually moved behind her to land an attack without her noticing in one exchange.

Yes, I know that is Mira in her regular Satan soul takeover. She has other more powerful takeovers such as Sitri and Alegria. Unfortunately, Mashima did not bother to give her any on-screen feats with those takeovers since the days it was used on the likes of Jenny, Juliet and Heine. And those characters are feat-less. For all we know, Mira could and likely perform better with her more powerful takeovers. What we do know, because we have seen it, is Gray has better displays of speed. It's shrouded in less ambiguity. Flight is a useful ability to have. However it isn't the be-all, end-all. It is a means to an end. There's a good reason why birds, despite their ability of flight, remains a diet for big, hunter cats like leopards, cheetahs, jaguars and etc. If you are equip with the necessary speed, skill and weapons, you can still take down targets that can fly. And someone of Gray's calibre possess those traits in abundance.

He is an expert marksman who is very dangerous from range. He perfectly pin point and snipe foes who were at a great distance from himself.



Yes, I know Natsu and Lyon were there at that time. However, if you read, both of them were clearly no longer able to fight at that point of time. They were sitting ducks who did not put a resistance. Both Racer and Mard had the time to notice the attack was coming, but still failed to evade them in due course. Again, Mard has the ability of flight too.

If we factor in PoF then Gray becomes considerably more powerful. Gray lost to Skullion because there was no PoF involved. At the height of his powers, Gray can ragdoll a Spriggan like how deliver a brutal pummeling to Invel. He could then go on to stalemate an enraged END Natsu. I don't think we have seen Mira attain such heights in the story yet.

Mira, in her own words, only managed to pull off a victory over a Spriggan like Jacob due to his self-sabotage for fighting with his eyes closed, hence he could not see anything.
END Natsu was the strongest demon in existence. Stronger than Larcade, who is hyped and portrayed as the third strongest Spriggan. Larcade could block a barrage of sword strikes from Kagura. And Kagura isn't as outdated as you'd think because she could cut down down Wall's attacks and react to Dimaria's attack that drew a compliment from her.



If Larcade is a lot faster than Dimaria and Kagura, it made complete sense that END Natsu blitzed and massacred Dimaria. Gray could clash on equal footing with END Natsu. And this is a level of strength that could easily wreck and decimate any Spriggan not named August or Irene.

Gray has incredible AoE with Ice-Make Silver. The area that he froze are as large as Mira's blasts and he should have an excellent chance to do so.





Gray also has zeroth destruction fists and Heavy Knights that are very hard-hitting and looks a class above what Mira had achieve.


He has moves in his arsenal that could overwhelm her, but I don't feel the same could be said the other way round.

Mira's Macro revolves around mental subjugation so her targets have to listen to her command. However, Gray has shown remarkable mental resistance when he broke the Genjutsu of his perfect world that Hakune placed him under.


While the Alegria takeover that Mira used to beat Juliet and Heine heavily exhausted her after a single attack in that form.
Mira has to defeat her foes with one attack in that form. Against somebody like Gray, who along with Natsu, has the most endurance in FT after Laxus and Erza, spells doom.

Gray could effortlessly freeze multiple pillars of END Natsu's flames that erupted from below the ground around him.

So the flames from Sitri soul are likely not going be a huge threat to Gray despite his elemental weakness to them.

The more I ponder about it, the more it seems this fight is a bad match-up to Mira because Gray's skillset is almost tailor-made to counter everything she can offer. It dawn on me while typing this post that the gap between them aren't as narrow as I initially thought :gwah
 

grey matter

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Mira and Gray heads over to the Erza and Jellal thread to stomp them then make out to celebrate their epic victory :blush:handgun

I think both Gray and Mira have been two of the most likeable and unfortunately, neglected characters. In Mira's case especially, she hasn't had much on-screen feats. If it's up to me, I would hope they both advance. But since it's come down to this, if I have to pick one to advance then my votes goes to Gray.

My decision doesn't involve guesswork around questions like Gray should win because Mira is vulnerable to demon slaying magic, or Gray has already beaten Mira along with Elfman. Or Mira should win because she and Elfman could stalemate Skullion and Madmole. If we remove the hype and portrayal and assess only their feats, Gray comes out top as the more impressive fighter if I'm being honest.

I have seen a few posts that Mira has the speed advantage because she can fly. But I think the flight advantage is overstated. There are even a few posts that claimed Gray is slow. That couldn't be any further from the truth. Gray is capable of very swift movement that allows him to travel faster than the eye can follow. He vanished without a trace then reappeared behind Bixlow and Evergreen who had their eyes locked on Gray and were several meters away, before either of them could even perceive wtf happen. The visual imagery is reminiscent to Mest's and Minerva's teleportation magic, except Gray could achieve it with his raw speed.


It happens that Ever also has the ability to fly too.



Gray has the reflexes to evade fast-moving attacks such as a laser from one of the god seeds who powered up after absorbing Juvia.


He could blitz Invel and Skullion with zeroth longsword before either of them could react despite knowing the attack is coming.


Skullion himself is fast enough to evade multiple attacks from an enraged Mira.



And eventually moved behind her to land an attack without her noticing in one exchange.

Yes, I know that is Mira in her regular Satan soul takeover. She has other more powerful takeovers such as Sitri and Alegria. Unfortunately, Mashima did not bother to give her any on-screen feats with those takeovers since the days it was used on the likes of Jenny, Juliet and Heine. And those characters are feat-less. For all we know, Mira could and likely perform better with her more powerful takeovers. What we do know, because we have seen it, is Gray has better displays of speed. It's shrouded in less ambiguity. Flight is a useful ability to have. However it isn't the be-all, end-all. It is a means to an end. There's a good reason why birds, despite their ability of flight, remains a diet for big, hunter cats like leopards, cheetahs, jaguars and etc. If you are equip with the necessary speed, skill and weapons, you can still take down targets that can fly. And someone of Gray's calibre possess those traits in abundance.

He is an expert marksman who is very dangerous from range. He perfectly pin point and snipe foes who were at a great distance from himself.



Yes, I know Natsu and Lyon were there at that time. However, if you read, both of them were clearly no longer able to fight at that point of time. They were sitting ducks who did not put a resistance. Both Racer and Mard had the time to notice the attack was coming, but still failed to evade them in due course. Again, Mard has the ability of flight too.

If we factor in PoF then Gray becomes considerably more powerful. Gray lost to Skullion because there was no PoF involved. At the height of his powers, Gray can ragdoll a Spriggan like how deliver a brutal pummeling to Invel. He could then go on to stalemate an enraged END Natsu. I don't think we have seen Mira attain such heights in the story yet.

Mira, in her own words, only managed to pull off a victory over a Spriggan like Jacob due to his self-sabotage for fighting with his eyes closed, hence he could not see anything.
END Natsu was the strongest demon in existence. Stronger than Larcade, who is hyped and portrayed as the third strongest Spriggan. Larcade could block a barrage of sword strikes from Kagura. And Kagura isn't as outdated as you'd think because she could cut down down Wall's attacks and react to Dimaria's attack that drew a compliment from her.



If Larcade is a lot faster than Dimaria and Kagura, it made complete sense that END Natsu blitzed and massacred Dimaria. Gray could clash on equal footing with END Natsu. And this is a level of strength that could easily wreck and decimate any Spriggan not named August or Irene.

Gray has incredible AoE with Ice-Make Silver. The area that he froze are as large as Mira's blasts and he should have an excellent chance to do so.





Gray also has zeroth destruction fists and Heavy Knights that are very hard-hitting and looks a class above what Mira had achieve.


He has moves in his arsenal that could overwhelm her, but I don't feel the same could be said the other way round.

Mira's Macro revolves around mental subjugation so her targets have to listen to her command. However, Gray has shown remarkable mental resistance when he broke the Genjutsu of his perfect world that Hakune placed him under.


While the Alegria takeover that Mira used to beat Juliet and Heine heavily exhausted her after a single attack in that form.
Mira has to defeat her foes with one attack in that form. Against somebody like Gray, who along with Natsu, has the most endurance in FT after Laxus and Erza, spells doom.

Gray could effortlessly freeze multiple pillars of END Natsu's flames that erupted from below the ground around him.

So the flames from Sitri soul are likely not going be a huge threat to Gray despite his elemental weakness to them.

The more I ponder about it, the more it seems this fight is a bad match-up to Mira because Gray's skillset is almost tailor-made to counter everything she can offer. It dawn on me while typing this post that the gap between them aren't as narrow as I initially thought :gwah
Sort of agree.

Mira has nothing on Gray when it comes to on screen feats. Because unfortunately she gets shafted all the time.
We are hence forced to take into account off screen feats and portrayal.


She has portrayal above regular Gray at least. "Darkness" Gray is an entirely different story, he can stalemate partial END. But darkness isn't something Gay can access willingly, and hence shouldn't be considered IMO

But 'regular' Gray was scared of fighting Mira. At least portrayal here suggests that she's above him, even if it's marginally.

She also stalemated Skullion. We may argue the legitimacy/logic of that off screen fight, speculate on it etc.
But it's somewhat indicative that Mira and Skullion are about equals.

Skullion > 'regular' DeS Gray

Doesn't this suggest that Mira is above Gray?
 

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Mira and Gray heads over to the Erza and Jellal thread to stomp them then make out to celebrate their epic victory :blush:handgun

I think both Gray and Mira have been two of the most likeable and unfortunately, neglected characters. In Mira's case especially, she hasn't had much on-screen feats. If it's up to me, I would hope they both advance. But since it's come down to this, if I have to pick one to advance then my votes goes to Gray.

My decision doesn't involve guesswork around questions like Gray should win because Mira is vulnerable to demon slaying magic, or Gray has already beaten Mira along with Elfman. Or Mira should win because she and Elfman could stalemate Skullion and Madmole. If we remove the hype and portrayal and assess only their feats, Gray comes out top as the more impressive fighter if I'm being honest.

I have seen a few posts that Mira has the speed advantage because she can fly. But I think the flight advantage is overstated. There are even a few posts that claimed Gray is slow. That couldn't be any further from the truth. Gray is capable of very swift movement that allows him to travel faster than the eye can follow. He vanished without a trace then reappeared behind Bixlow and Evergreen who had their eyes locked on Gray and were several meters away, before either of them could even perceive wtf happen. The visual imagery is reminiscent to Mest's and Minerva's teleportation magic, except Gray could achieve it with his raw speed.


It happens that Ever also has the ability to fly too.



Gray has the reflexes to evade fast-moving attacks such as a laser from one of the god seeds who powered up after absorbing Juvia.


He could blitz Invel and Skullion with zeroth longsword before either of them could react despite knowing the attack is coming.


Skullion himself is fast enough to evade multiple attacks from an enraged Mira.



And eventually moved behind her to land an attack without her noticing in one exchange.

Yes, I know that is Mira in her regular Satan soul takeover. She has other more powerful takeovers such as Sitri and Alegria. Unfortunately, Mashima did not bother to give her any on-screen feats with those takeovers since the days it was used on the likes of Jenny, Juliet and Heine. And those characters are feat-less. For all we know, Mira could and likely perform better with her more powerful takeovers. What we do know, because we have seen it, is Gray has better displays of speed. It's shrouded in less ambiguity. Flight is a useful ability to have. However it isn't the be-all, end-all. It is a means to an end. There's a good reason why birds, despite their ability of flight, remains a diet for big, hunter cats like leopards, cheetahs, jaguars and etc. If you are equip with the necessary speed, skill and weapons, you can still take down targets that can fly. And someone of Gray's calibre possess those traits in abundance.

He is an expert marksman who is very dangerous from range. He perfectly pin point and snipe foes who were at a great distance from himself.



Yes, I know Natsu and Lyon were there at that time. However, if you read, both of them were clearly no longer able to fight at that point of time. They were sitting ducks who did not put a resistance. Both Racer and Mard had the time to notice the attack was coming, but still failed to evade them in due course. Again, Mard has the ability of flight too.

If we factor in PoF then Gray becomes considerably more powerful. Gray lost to Skullion because there was no PoF involved. At the height of his powers, Gray can ragdoll a Spriggan like how deliver a brutal pummeling to Invel. He could then go on to stalemate an enraged END Natsu. I don't think we have seen Mira attain such heights in the story yet.

Mira, in her own words, only managed to pull off a victory over a Spriggan like Jacob due to his self-sabotage for fighting with his eyes closed, hence he could not see anything.
END Natsu was the strongest demon in existence. Stronger than Larcade, who is hyped and portrayed as the third strongest Spriggan. Larcade could block a barrage of sword strikes from Kagura. And Kagura isn't as outdated as you'd think because she could cut down down Wall's attacks and react to Dimaria's attack that drew a compliment from her.



If Larcade is a lot faster than Dimaria and Kagura, it made complete sense that END Natsu blitzed and massacred Dimaria. Gray could clash on equal footing with END Natsu. And this is a level of strength that could easily wreck and decimate any Spriggan not named August or Irene.

Gray has incredible AoE with Ice-Make Silver. The area that he froze are as large as Mira's blasts and he should have an excellent chance to do so.





Gray also has zeroth destruction fists and Heavy Knights that are very hard-hitting and looks a class above what Mira had achieve.


He has moves in his arsenal that could overwhelm her, but I don't feel the same could be said the other way round.

Mira's Macro revolves around mental subjugation so her targets have to listen to her command. However, Gray has shown remarkable mental resistance when he broke the Genjutsu of his perfect world that Hakune placed him under.


While the Alegria takeover that Mira used to beat Juliet and Heine heavily exhausted her after a single attack in that form.
Mira has to defeat her foes with one attack in that form. Against somebody like Gray, who along with Natsu, has the most endurance in FT after Laxus and Erza, spells doom.

Gray could effortlessly freeze multiple pillars of END Natsu's flames that erupted from below the ground around him.

So the flames from Sitri soul are likely not going be a huge threat to Gray despite his elemental weakness to them.

The more I ponder about it, the more it seems this fight is a bad match-up to Mira because Gray's skillset is almost tailor-made to counter everything she can offer. It dawn on me while typing this post that the gap between them aren't as narrow as I initially thought :gwah
Finally someone who understand Gray's true values. Thanks for the differents explanations and scans as supports. Nothing else to say after that. I am happy seeing Gray without being underestimate. Congratulations.
 

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I only wanted to tell that it is easier to dodge attacks on the ground rathen than in water. Gray had handicap in mobility.
Why couldn't Gray dodge Skullion's attacks ? In DS, his speed increase to great point. Look at his fight vs Raijinshuu. She has certainly average about fly and agility, that Gray can counterpart with Shield lowing attacks enough to give him time to dodge as well.

About AoE, Skullion didn't used AoE city size on Mirajane to try to erase her. Madmole was close too, and he should be erase as well.
Grey could counter his AoE Elmina's size with his Silver, before being bypass by Black Ashes.

Like I said, Gray and Mira have different ways to fight, but they are closer than you think. If we take account his Darkness (potential because he can't use at will), he is far stronger than Mira. I can see them in same tier without it. Gray has my vote.
Because he wasn't able to react to black ash. This isn't a case of Gray attempting to dodge black ash and not being able to pull it off. He wasn't able to react to it at all.

How do you know Skullion didn't attempt to use black ash, and Mirajane simply countered the spell before its effects became larger like Ice-Make Silver did? Skullion's attack wasn't the size of when Gray fought him. It was the size of a small building, and only had the potential to grow and reach Ermina. Also, Madmole being close to the battlefield isn't an argument. Skullion was right beside the temple that Kyria was in, and Madmole was on the boat right above them. Skullion was closer to both of them than he was to Ermina. Both Kyria and Madmole would have been caught in absolute ash when he used it against Gray, and Skullion simply didn't care. Skullion has the ability to turn Kyria and Madmole to ash without hurting them too.

I agree that with darkness (which is just POF), Gray is stronger than Mirajane. But they are not on the same level without it. Mirajane simply did better than Gray against a 3rd party, that being Skullion. The excuses for why there's such a huge disparity in performance despite the claim they're on the same level isn't convincing. There is little doubt in my mind that Skullion considers Mirajane a stronger opponent than Gray, which is mainly what I'm going with here.

How strong do you think Mira was relative to Gray?

The way I see it, DeS Gray is 70% Mira at worst. I don't see him being anywhere below that in stats, compared to Mira. In all likeliness, Gray is closer than that.

While x791 Gray was like 10% Etherious Mard in stats lol, yet he one shotted him the moment he got a clean blow.
Why 10%? Cause DeS Gray ~ LFD Natsu, and BASE Mard tanked everything LFD Natsu had to offer without even flinching. He was laughing like it didn't even tickle.
The difference between Mira and Gray is pretty much the exact same difference between Skullion and Gray.

Gray is more than 10% etherious mard. Silver was a Laxus tier, and Gray had all of his MP. Gray was basically Tenrou LFD Natsu tier in Tartaros. I don't consider Mard a Spriggan tier either.

Either way, Gray has plenty of options of using Devil Slaying Magic against Mirajane without hurting her. Ice-Make: Silver can freeze her. Demonizing increases his stats, which he can use to fight physically. We've seen from Chelia that even small hits from slayer magic can dispel a takeover. He can even try to redirect the devil slaying power from the ice into an energy blast like he did against Doriarte. Really, all Gray needs to do is not cut her with a sword or shoot her with an arrow. Even something like Zero Destruction Fist can simply knock Mirajane out without seriously injuring her. It just makes no sense for Juvia to say that Gray give it his all, and for Gray to have struggled so badly, when he could have low-diffed the fight as you're claiming.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

Mira and Gray heads over to the Erza and Jellal thread to stomp them then make out to celebrate their epic victory
Bruh. Erza would stomp Mirajane and Gray, and make out with Jellal.

I have seen a few posts that Mira has the speed advantage because she can fly. But I think the flight advantage is overstated. There are even a few posts that claimed Gray is slow. That couldn't be any further from the truth. Gray is capable of very swift movement that allows him to travel faster than the eye can follow. He vanished without a trace then reappeared behind Bixlow and Evergreen who had their eyes locked on Gray and were several meters away, before either of them could even perceive wtf happen. The visual imagery is reminiscent to Mest's and Minerva's teleportation magic, except Gray could achieve it with his raw speed.


It happens that Ever also has the ability to fly too.



Mirajane doesn't have a speed advantage over Gray because she can fly. She has an agility advantage. Evergreen had it too. Except she never flew against Gray.

I don't believe that the speed difference between Gray and Mirajane are all that big, but the fact that characters can appear to be teleporting on panel doesn't really mean much. Wendy did the same thing to Ezel. Lucy did this to Brandish. Plenty of characters can do this, and they're not on the same tier of speed. Mirajane in particular was simply faster than Racer in Starry Night. Gray is on the same tier of speed as Natsu/Gajeel. And while they're fast to fodders like the Raijinshu. That doesn't necessarily translate to them being fast to Mirajane tiers. Blitzing Skullion does put Gray at a level where he can land shots on Mirajane, but he's really only this fast with zero longsword. He's not going to run circles around Skullion or Mirajane.
 
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