Fantasy Mirajane vs. Minerva

[IamtherealMirajane]

Sting with Rogue's power is strong enough to challenge and deafeat Mirajane, so what you're saying it's not true.

No it's not.

 

[Jko]

Sting with Rogue's power is strong enough to challenge and deafeat Mirajane, so what you're saying it's not true.

No, he's Gray tier at best with that power-up lol. His whole guild get their butts kicked by Mira.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

No, he's Gray tier at best with that power-up lol. His whole guild get their butts kicked by Mira.

He defeated the 3rd strongest Spriggan while Mirajane gave her all to defeat Heyne and Juliet.

 

[Jko]

He defeated the 3rd strongest Spriggan while Mirajane gave her all to defeat Heyne and Juliet.

Larcade wasn't the third strongest, just self hype. Secondly Base Sting beat him up prior to boost which just goes to show that Larcade is def not top 3 S12 lol. Third, Sting need counters to be at Larcade.

Mirajane beat Jacob while magically exhausted and only 1 BSS move left in the tank. Stalemated Skullion and hurt Madmole in BSS. Juliet and Heine scale to BSS and have no anti feats to say they are weak in the first place. I like how you just acted like Mira's only feat is Juliet and Heine. Didn't Erza get her ass whooped by enchanted fodder from Irene? So I guess we shouldn't underestimate beings specially made from Irene's enchantments.

Like I said, he is at best Gray tier and gets fodderized along with his guild.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

Larcade wasn't the third strongest, just self hype. Secondly Base Sting beat him up prior to boost which just goes to show that Larcade is def not top 3 S12 lol. Third, Sting need counters to be at Larcade.

Mirajane beat Jacob while magically exhausted and only 1 BSS move left in the tank. Stalemated Skullion and hurt Madmole in BSS. Juliet and Heine scale to BSS and have no anti feats to say they are weak in the first place. I like how you just acted like Mira's only feat is Juliet and Heine. Didn't Erza get her ass whooped by enchanted fodder from Irene? So I guess we shouldn't underestimate beings specially made from Irene's enchantments.

Like I said, he is at best Gray tier and gets fodderized along with his guild.

- Lacardae was the 3rd strongest, His pleasure magic was damaging even Irene, Gildarts and Zeref, why would it be false hype? You're overhyping so much Mirajane and undervaluing Sting.
- Sting was portrayed to keeping evolving since the end of GMG. In Tartarus Arc, he and Rogue tag base Margeer, and they even defeated Demon Jienma, who was said to be superior to all the 9 Gate demons. So base Sting tagging Larcade isn't something bad because Sting was portrayed fighting strong opponents after GMG.

- Jacob is one of the weakest Spriggans, he hurts his opponents with physical attacks or invisible weapons, and he couldn't even knock out Lucy or make her be seriously injured after hit her a lot of times. What makes him strong is his dimension hax magic and he didn't use it against Mirajane. He even fought with closed eyes. Mirajane's victory against him just shows how weak Jacob is without using his hax magic, once that even Heyne and Juliet, both below Spriggan rank, were better opponents to Mirajane than him.
Note: Erza wasn't really defeated by the berserkers' soldiers and didn't even need to use a spell that drained out all of her magic power to win against them.
- Mirajane standing and resisting against Madmole and Skullrion is good, but she didn't defeat them (or one of them). Actually, she said to Elfman that, if the Diablos duo hasn't retreated and they (she and Elfman) kept fighting them, she wasn't certain that they could win the battle.
Anyhow, Is Skullrion or Madmole stronger than Larcade? Why? Larcade magic is difficult to deal with, his sleep magic is quite strong. Those feats that you bring didn't prove Mirajane above Sting Light Shadow, and Sting, since Tartaros, is portrayed fighting stronger enemies than the ones that Mirajane fights.

And why Mirajane is above Gray? A better fight against just one opponent didn't guarantee she is stronger than him. I'm pretty sure that he could stand against her and even win.

 

[Jko]

- Lacardae was the 3rd strongest, His pleasure magic was damaging even Irene, Gildarts and Zeref, why would it be false hype? You're overhyping so much Mirajane and undervaluing Sting.
- Sting was portrayed to keeping evolving since the end of GMG. In Tartarus Arc, he and Rogue tag base Margeer, and they even defeated Demon Jienma, who was said to be superior to all the 9 Gate demons. So base Sting tagging Larcade isn't something bad because Sting was portrayed fighting strong opponents after GMG.

- Jacob is one of the weakest Spriggans, he hurts his opponents with physical attacks or invisible weapons, and he couldn't even knock out Lucy or make her be seriously injured after hit her a lot of times. What makes him strong is his dimension hax magic and he didn't use it against Mirajane. He even fought with closed eyes. Mirajane's victory against him just shows how weak Jacob is without using his hax magic, once that even Heyne and Juliet, both below Spriggan rank, were better opponents to Mirajane than him.
Note: Erza wasn't really defeated by the berserkers' soldiers and didn't even need to use a spell that drained out all of her magic power to win against them.
- Mirajane standing and resisting against Madmole and Skullrion is good, but she didn't defeat them (or one of them). Actually, she said to Elfman that, if the Diablos duo hasn't retreated and they (she and Elfman) kept fighting them, she wasn't certain that they could win the battle.
Anyhow, Is Skullrion or Madmole stronger than Larcade? Why? Larcade magic is difficult to deal with, his sleep magic is quite strong. Those feats that you bring didn't prove Mirajane above Sting Light Shadow, and Sting, since Tartaros, is portrayed fighting stronger enemies than the ones that Mirajane fights.

And why Mirajane is above Gray? A better fight against just one opponent didn't guarantee she is stronger than him. I'm pretty sure that he could stand against her and even win.

That is because of hax and it did not damage them it just gave them a headache at most. They could have easily gotten out of via enchantment if they really wanted and in a battle he would be fodderized. Not overhyping anyone just stating facts.

So was Mira, what's your point? The guy and his butt buddy was fodder to GMG Natsu lol. He is not suddenly catching up to their level when FT was hardcore training while most of his training was losing his gut from the Tiger! Tiger! Tiger! Food Festival.

Nobody believed Jiemma was above even the likes of Jackal let alone the top tier Demon Gates lol. He was false hype lol.

Jacob no sold Base Natsu's attacks that automatically puts him above a lot of S12's in stats, namely Larcade who was beat up by Base Sting's attacks. Base Natsu >>>> Base Sting. Mira's victory against Jacob shows how powerful Mira is not that Jacob was weak and this again proven when she stalemated Skull and Madmole with just BSS. Again no anti feats to say they were weak and Juliet was straight up dissing Larcade and Bloodman so rank was not really a factor lol.

Erza was going to be defeated as she got pinned by like three of them while in Red Pants armor, her top tier armor lmao. She didn't drain all her MP bcs she had zero spells strong enough to take all them down and got immediately bailed out by Makarov. If Erza can get her butt whooped by fodder enchanted by Irene then why is a surprise Mira can have trouble in BSS with her enchanted weaponry she took time to create? Also again Mira's feats in BSS prove J/H are strong so again not seeing any anti-feats to say they are weak in the first place.

She stalemated them in again BSS, her weakest soul. One fodderized Gray, and the other no sold a demolition fist lmao. Yeah, and Diabolos said the same. Also she said that while she was in BSS lol.

Again, Skull fodderized Gray harder than Invel who froze Natsu for a hot minute, and Madmole sold a demolition fist. Larcade was hurt by Base Sting. Base Sting is fodder to Base Natsu let alone an FDK Natsu while Madmole was clearly not lmao. There is no way Larcade has the dura showings to say he wouldn't be oneshotted by a Demo-Fist from Natsu let alone take one with no scratch. Skull and Madmole are both far above Larcade in feats.

Bcs it was directly stated and portrayed in the 100YQ that Gray is inferior to her. She fought the guy who fodderized him (Skull no sold his DeS blade and oneshotted) while in BSS, Gray needed to wait for her to be weakened in order to fight her, and while weakened she gave him a high diff fight in BSS (as she was locked to it the entire arc lmao) while he was stated to give it his best. So no, it wasn't just one better fight, she was shown to be outright superior to him in every way.

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

That is because of hax and it did not damage them it just gave them a headache at most. They could have easily gotten out of via enchantment if they really wanted and in a battle he would be fodderized. Not overhyping anyone just stating facts.

So was Mira, what's your point? The guy and his butt buddy was fodder to GMG Natsu lol. He is not suddenly catching up to their level when FT was hardcore training while most of his training was losing his gut from the Tiger! Tiger! Tiger! Food Festival.

Nobody believed Jiemma was above even the likes of Jackal let alone the top tier Demon Gates lol. He was false hype lol.

Jacob no sold Base Natsu's attacks that automatically puts him above a lot of S12's in stats, namely Larcade who was beat up by Base Sting's attacks. Base Natsu >>>> Base Sting. Mira's victory against Jacob shows how powerful Mira is not that Jacob was weak and this again proven when she stalemated Skull and Madmole with just BSS. Again no anti feats to say they were weak and Juliet was straight up dissing Larcade and Bloodman so rank was not really a factor lol.

Erza was going to be defeated as she got pinned by like three of them while in Red Pants armor, her top tier armor lmao. She didn't drain all her MP bcs she had zero spells strong enough to take all them down and got immediately bailed out by Makarov. If Erza can get her butt whooped by fodder enchanted by Irene then why is a surprise Mira can have trouble in BSS with her enchanted weaponry she took time to create? Also again Mira's feats in BSS prove J/H are strong so again not seeing any anti-feats to say they are weak in the first place.

She stalemated them in again BSS, her weakest soul. One fodderized Gray, and the other no sold a demolition fist lmao. Yeah, and Diabolos said the same. Also she said that while she was in BSS lol.

Again, Skull fodderized Gray harder than Invel who froze Natsu for a hot minute, and Madmole sold a demolition fist. Larcade was hurt by Base Sting. Base Sting is fodder to Base Natsu let alone an FDK Natsu while Madmole was clearly not lmao. There is no way Larcade has the dura showings to say he wouldn't be oneshotted by a Demo-Fist from Natsu let alone take one with no scratch. Skull and Madmole are both far above Larcade in feats.

Bcs it was directly stated and portrayed in the 100YQ that Gray is inferior to her. She fought the guy who fodderized him (Skull no sold his DeS blade and oneshotted) while in BSS, Gray needed to wait for her to be weakened in order to fight her, and while weakened she gave him a high diff fight in BSS (as she was locked to it the entire arc lmao) while he was stated to give it his best. So no, it wasn't just one better fight, she was shown to be outright superior to him in every way.

- His hax was working even in strong wizards like Irene. Irene didn't dissipate the pleasure curse by herself and Larcade said that he, Irene, and August are superior to the other Spriggans. He is the 3rd strongest Spriggan.

- You're ignoring the context again: even in the GMG arc, Sting already became stronger after his defeat against Natsu. He didn't expend his time just eating. The festival was just a special event, Sabertooth had a lot of missions and work to do, they caught a lot of jobs because FT had disbanded.

- "Nobody believes", talk about yourself. You need to balance what is said and what is showed to try to debate without being biased by favoritism. Jienma stop an already started attack by Devil Slayer Gray. We see before that Tempester couldn't react to the same attack. Even if some demons have shown better curses and Jienma just uses brute force, even if you don't agree that Jienma is the strongest demon, the manga put before Rogue and Sting fighting base Mard Geer for a long time. Mard Geer is the leader of the demons and he even praised the dragon twins saying "You're the first humans to last this long against Mard Geer". When Natsu joined the battle, it wasn't like Rogue and Sting were so below Natsu that they couldn't keep the battle level. That proves that Sting and Rogue are portrayed as raising their level a lot after GMG.


- You are ignoring that context: of course Base Natsu > Base Sting when Natsu is fighting with all he can do in his base form, but base Natsu containing himself to not damage the guild isn't superior to base Sting fighting giving his all.
( Natsu concerned about the guild damage: https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Fairy-Tail/0478-005.png )
Natsu barely used flames against Jacob until the finalization. Base Sting used named attacks against Larcade and even destroyed the big rocks behind Larcade:

Natsu fighting basically with pure physical attacks, without flames, isn't superior to this Sting never. The scenario destructions of both fights prove it.

- About Heyne and Juliet level: one of them just said to the other refer to Larcade and Bloodman with ''-sama'' because even if they aren't their commanders, they outrank both of them. So it just shows that Larcade and Bloodman are above them and never was stated that both of the girls-swords together were Spriggan level. Thus Jacob is just so weak without using his spatial magic and fighting with close eyes that he did less than Irene's subaltern against Mirajane. Erza wasn't defeated by the berserker soldiers and since the fight was interrupted by Makarov's sacrifice you can say she would lose, not when she was able to even cut dragon Irene and undo the dragon transformation. The thing is: Mirajane using her strong attack against Heyne and Juliet was her best and maximum performance in the arc, Erza didn't give her best again the berserk soldiers, she did that against the strongest female Spriggan.

- Mirajane didn't defeat Skullrion or Madmole, she just outlasted Gray in the fight. But does it make her stronger than Gray? Let's remember: how Gray was defeated? He couldn't escape the ash vortex cast by Skullrion and was turned into ashes. If Mirajane escaped it because she can fly, it makes her stronger than Gray? I mean, Minerva can escape it by teleporting herself out of the vortex, so she is stronger than Gray too? Of course not, it just shows that she has better tools in her arsenal to get away from this kind of magic. We don't know yet about Skullrion resistance, because his power makes the attack pass through him. Can he really tank strong spells once his ash body intangibility is overcome?
Madmole is resistant, after all, it is his DS attribute, but Natsu damaged him to the extent that Gray stated that he wasn't capable of keeping fighting. Source: https://scans-ongoing-1.lastation.us/manga/Fairy-Tail-100-Years-Quest/0016-015.png
Since nor Strauss duo or Diablos duo damaged the opponent to the extent of one of them seems almost defeated, why are you implying that it is a very great feat? Elfman still not seeing as a really strong opponent to anyone from FT (Natsu ignored him when talking about the people he wanted to fight, Gray ignored him and only was couting Mirajane's strenght, etc) and even so Elfman resisted the Diablo fight as much as Mirajane did. So why another duo with Alvarez arc good feats couldn't do the same thing? Why Sting Light Shadow, who defeats the 3rd strongest Spriggan, and Minerva, who defeats H-Wahl couldn't do the same?

You're overhyping Mirajane. She is strong, but it's not like the way you're talking.

 

[Jko]

- His hax was working even in strong wizards like Irene. Irene didn't dissipate the pleasure curse by herself and Larcade said that he, Irene, and August are superior to the other Spriggans. He is the 3rd strongest Spriggan.

- You're ignoring the context again: even in the GMG arc, Sting already became stronger after his defeat against Natsu. He didn't expend his time just eating. The festival was just a special event, Sabertooth had a lot of missions and work to do, they caught a lot of jobs because FT had disbanded.

- "Nobody believes", talk about yourself. You need to balance what is said and what is showed to try to debate without being biased by favoritism. Jienma stop an already started attack by Devil Slayer Gray. We see before that Tempester couldn't react to the same attack. Even if some demons have shown better curses and Jienma just uses brute force, even if you don't agree that Jienma is the strongest demon, the manga put before Rogue and Sting fighting base Mard Geer for a long time. Mard Geer is the leader of the demons and he even praised the dragon twins saying "You're the first humans to last this long against Mard Geer". When Natsu joined the battle, it wasn't like Rogue and Sting were so below Natsu that they couldn't keep the battle level. That proves that Sting and Rogue are portrayed as raising their level a lot after GMG.


- You are ignoring that context: of course Base Natsu > Base Sting when Natsu is fighting with all he can do in his base form, but base Natsu containing himself to not damage the guild isn't superior to base Sting fighting giving his all.
( Natsu concerned about the guild damage: https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Fairy-Tail/0478-005.png )
Natsu barely used flames against Jacob until the finalization. Base Sting used named attacks against Larcade and even destroyed the big rocks behind Larcade:

Natsu fighting basically with pure physical attacks, without flames, isn't superior to this Sting never. The scenario destructions of both fights prove it.

- About Heyne and Juliet level: one of them just said to the other refer to Larcade and Bloodman with ''-sama'' because even if they aren't their commanders, they outrank both of them. So it just shows that Larcade and Bloodman are above them and never was stated that both of the girls-swords together were Spriggan level. Thus Jacob is just so weak without using his spatial magic and fighting with close eyes that he did less than Irene's subaltern against Mirajane. Erza wasn't defeated by the berserker soldiers and since the fight was interrupted by Makarov's sacrifice you can say she would lose, not when she was able to even cut dragon Irene and undo the dragon transformation. The thing is: Mirajane using her strong attack against Heyne and Juliet was her best and maximum performance in the arc, Erza didn't give her best again the berserk soldiers, she did that against the strongest female Spriggan.

- Mirajane didn't defeat Skullrion or Madmole, she just outlasted Gray in the fight. But does it make her stronger than Gray? Let's remember: how Gray was defeated? He couldn't escape the ash vortex cast by Skullrion and was turned into ashes. If Mirajane escaped it because she can fly, it makes her stronger than Gray? I mean, Minerva can escape it by teleporting herself out of the vortex, so she is stronger than Gray too? Of course not, it just shows that she has better tools in her arsenal to get away from this kind of magic. We don't know yet about Skullrion resistance, because his power makes the attack pass through him. Can he really tank strong spells once his ash body intangibility is overcome?
Madmole is resistant, after all, it is his DS attribute, but Natsu damaged him to the extent that Gray stated that he wasn't capable of keeping fighting. Source: https://scans-ongoing-1.lastation.us/manga/Fairy-Tail-100-Years-Quest/0016-015.png
Since nor Strauss duo or Diablos duo damaged the opponent to the extent of one of them seems almost defeated, why are you implying that it is a very great feat? Elfman still not seeing as a really strong opponent to anyone from FT (Natsu ignored him when talking about the people he wanted to fight, Gray ignored him and only was couting Mirajane's strenght, etc) and even so Elfman resisted the Diablo fight as much as Mirajane did. So why another duo with Alvarez arc good feats couldn't do the same thing? Why Sting Light Shadow, who defeats the 3rd strongest Spriggan, and Minerva, who defeats H-Wahl couldn't do the same?

You're overhyping Mirajane. She is strong, but it's not like the way you're talking.

Irene was still capable of fighting and it was used as gag bcs Erza hadn't got laid lol. Again self hype. No noted he was above regular S12 MP just that his MP was weird. Also who cares if hax works on them? Several S12s hax could if they don't counter it, doesn't make them top 3 lol.

Him becoming stronger did not put him at Natsu's level. Rogue got solo-ed by Gajeel in Base w/o a scratch. Sting is relative to Rogue. Cool did not state they were hardcore training like FT was.

Jeimma hit an unsuspecting Gray, he did not stop his attacks at all. He then pushed back Natsu like once, but did no significant damage to him. The battle didn't change until Natsu stepped in amd he was leading the fight. Neither were Natsu's level.

Base Natsu fought Zeref the same way he fought Jacob.

Spoiler

Not an excuse since attack potency exists. Natsu doesn't have to destroy rocks when we already know his DC to quantify his AP. Natsu was using his flames the entire fight lmao.

Spoiler

There was only two times he did damage to Jacob and that with a combo attack and FDK. Base Sting is fodder to Base Natsu. None of Sting's attacks are one Base Natsu's level.

Because one was respectful while the other was disrespectful. Them out ranking J/H is meaningless since J/H are only enchantments thus wouldn't be eligible to be a S12 lmao. J/H contending with BSS >>> Neintrash who was a S12 and they did better than Jacob. Jacob is not weak without transport as shown when he was no selling Base Natsu hits. That is far above Larcade getting tossed by Base Sting. Erza was pinned to the floor and was helpless to do anything that is pretty much a loss. Erza also got stomped by Ajeel once he got serious so her Irene feats aren't consistent with her actual showings. The only reason Erza did so well was a combo of Wendy BS, Irene holding back, and PoF. Simple as that. Erza would have been fodder stomped by Irene who wasn't held back by plot. She got straight up overpowered by enchanted fodder.

Mira straight up stalemated them. She landed hits that damaged them. Gray was straight up fodderize by Skullion point blank and his one attack that landed did no damage to Skullion. Mira didn't just dodge one attack she actually stalemated the guy while Gray was again fodderized. The likes of Minerva at best could do is runaway so your analogy doesn't even make sense. It was stated he could not do anything against them the second time around and left it to Mira to handle. Gray is inferior to BSS by feats. A weakened Elfman is not a threat that's why so dunno why'd you bring him up lmao. Natsu did not know Elf's new power level lol. Elf is literally above a Demo-fist in power by feats of hurting Madmole that no sold one. Elf also beat a S12. So again Elf not weak and proved he isn't. He has better feats than Sting lol. They literally stated it was a tie and were beat up heavily and sweating lmak. Natsu had to roast Madmole with his heat in order to hurt him, he failed to do so with pure power.

Spoiler

Mira and Elf did it with actual power attacks which makes it an even better feat. Also I want to note again, she stalemated them in BSS lmao. WSM =< Gray <<<<<<< Skullion = BSS. Simple as that. Larcade isn't the top 3 strongest and his stats are garbage even in comparison to Jacob who no sold Base Natsu attacks. Minerva beating a fodder H12 ain't a feat even worth mention as the H12 were legit stated by Gild to be fodder version of their original power.

Spoiler

I'm not. Sabertooth is just not that strong. WSM Sting is not even solidly Gray tier, who is far below the likes of BSS and the rest are fodder. Literally Elfman has far better feats than WSM since Elf >>> Demofist which is far stronger than likes of WSM. Mira also has no disadvantages against WSM like Larcade had either and her physical abilities are far above the likes of Larcade. Mira bodies, adding Rogue's powers to Sting is not enough to overcome the gap between him and Mira.

 

[Ronin31]

Agree that Sting isn't Gray and Mira's tier. But stating DS Gray and FDK Natsu are <<< Mira and Elfman, I don't agree.
Is it because of their fights against same opponents ?

Then, look at Kyria. By your logic, Laxus should fodderize Erza even in his base lightning, the same way he did with Kyria, as Erza had hard time with her, while Laxus not. So : Laxus >>> Erza. Just like Elfman >>> Natsu FDK and Mira >>> Gray Ds.

But look at their duel : Erza tanked all Laxus's power until the end to a mismatch. And Laxus used RL wich is far stronger than the magic used to defeat Kyria.
This kind of logic is debatable.

Gray barely won against weakened siblings teaming up. Why can't he win against 1 in 1 vs 1 in same way ? They were weakened for sure, but fighting a team is harder than fighting 1 opponent. Still Gray hasn't release all his strength since his fight vs END. He is potentially far stronger than his current poor level. In base, yes Natsu and Gray are surely below Mira's. But in their mode, clearly I am not sure they are fodders. Both 4, with Elfman, are very strong.

Fact that Gray had handicap under water as he couldn't move freely while Mira could use her speed and agility to dodge. For me, Gray did not bad under circumstances : he matched a spell to the size of Elmina and forced Skullion using a stronger one. This AoE wasn't used vs Mira, perhaps because Mardmole was close to him.

 

[IamtherealMirajane]

Agree that Sting isn't Gray and Mira's tier. But stating DS Gray and FDK Natsu are <<< Mira and Elfman, I don't agree.
Is it because of their fights against same opponents ?

Then, look at Kyria. By your logic, Laxus should fodderize Erza even in his base lightning, the same way he did with Kyria, as Erza had hard time with her, while Laxus not. So : Laxus >>> Erza. Just like Elfman >>> Natsu FDK and Mira >>> Gray Ds.

But look at their duel : Erza tanked all Laxus's power until the end to a mismatch. And Laxus used RL wich is far stronger than the magic used to defeat Kyria.
This kind of logic is debatable.

Gray barely won against weakened siblings teaming up. Why can't he win against 1 in 1 vs 1 in same way ? They were weakened for sure, but fighting a team is harder than fighting 1 opponent. Still Gray hasn't release all his strength since his fight vs END. He is potentially far stronger than his current poor level. In base, yes Natsu and Gray are surely below Mira's. But in their mode, clearly I am not sure they are fodders. Both 4, with Elfman, are very strong.

Fact that Gray had handicap under water as he couldn't move freely while Mira could use her speed and agility to dodge. For me, Gray did not bad under circumstances : he matched a spell to the size of Elmina and forced Skullion using a stronger one. This AoE wasn't used vs Mira, perhaps because Mardmole was close to him.

I dont get why people are saying that it was Gray vs weakened Mira and Elfman???

The last time i check Gray specifically mentioned that he would fight Mira alone since she was too injured. And Lucy highlighting in the same page that Gray was avoiding Elfman.

And after the fight it was only mentioned that Gray only fought Mirajane and Cana and others are dissing him due to the fact that he struggled against an injured Mira even giving his very best as confirmed by Juvia.

Why would Gray did not mention Elfman? If he wants to save some face. Like , "im fighting them together duhh" In short he can use it as a reason why he struggled. The only possible answer is he only fought an injured Mira.

There is no indication that Gray fought them together. If we actually base it on the narration before and after the fight since the fight was off paneled.

i dont get why people are skipping lucy and Cana? When they could knockout Elfman at that state. I doubt Elfman could take another hit From Lucy using her star dress mix and possibly a unison raid with Cana. Since he was also magically exhausted.

 

[Ronin31]

Lucy and Kana were in another place, taking another people, like Gajeel and Reby when they were flirting.

Gray was alone, facing the siblings. Do you think Lucy and Kana can took down Elfman without a scratch or exaustion and being in another place taking Gajeel and Reby ?? Yes Kana mocked him and this is why she wasn't in same place and she hadn't seen the fight. Elfman and Mirajane were in same place and didn't split after the fight vs Diabolos. Kana took both in cards, KO in same place after Gray did the work without any help.

Avoiding Elfman was gag since the beginning. Lucy recalled people that he was here as well but nobody answered. The fact is that Elfman improved a lot and rised another level since a past year. All people underestimate him and Mashima made it as a gag. Nothing else. He was physically as tough as Mirajane.

Gray was alone against weakened siblings, not only weakened Mira. And with Elfman current level, for me it's near a feat as strong as defeating a fresh one.

--- Double Post Merged, May 12, 2021, Original Post Date: May 12, 2021 ---

How can they take Gramps, Gajeel and Reby split in different place and takind down Elfman ?

Lucy says "But now we have Mira and Elfman" after the group met again. Gray took them both together.

Spoiler: defeated warriors Cards

 

[IamtherealMirajane]

Lucy and Kana were in another place, taking another people, like Gajeel and Reby when they were flirting.

Gray was alone, facing the siblings. Do you think Lucy and Kana can took down Elfman without a scratch or exaustion and being in another place taking Gajeel and Reby ?? Yes Kana mocked him and this is why she wasn't in same place and she hadn't seen the fight. Elfman and Mirajane were in same place and didn't split after the fight vs Diabolos. Kana took both in cards, KO in same place after Gray did the work without any help.

Avoiding Elfman was gag since the beginning. Lucy recalled people that he was here as well but nobody answered. The fact is that Elfman improved a lot and rised another level since a past year. All people underestimate him and Mashima made it as a gag. Nothing else. He was physically as tough as Mirajane.

Gray was alone against weakened siblings, not only weakened Mira. And with Elfman current level, for me it's near a feat as strong as defeating a fresh one.

Like what i said Lucy and Kana can take down Elfman since he was magically exhausted he was already out of his beast soul before the end of their fight against Diabolos.

Lucy (using her star dressmix) and Kana were both long range attacks. They dont need to get near into Elfman. That reason why no scratch on them.

And wrong Cana, Gray, Juvia and Lucy were only behind Mirajane and Elfman since they were watching the results of the fights between The strauss siblings and Diabolos. They are also together when they are dissing Gray against his battle with Mirajane.

So you are implying that both Lucy and kana can took down Gajeel but not Elfman??? Are u serious??

Like what i said the narration before and after the fight was Gray only fought Mirajane.

You cant say that Cana never saw their fight when Gray did not contradict it or opposed to it. Even Juvia agreed to it that at least Gray gave it all against Mirajane.

 

[Ronin31]

I dont get why people are saying that it was Gray vs weakened Mira and Elfman???

The last time i check Gray specifically mentioned that he would fight Mira alone since she was too injured. And Lucy highlighting in the same page that Gray was avoiding Elfman.

And after the fight it was only mentioned that Gray only fought Mirajane and Cana and others are dissing him due to the fact that he struggled against an injured Mira even giving his very best as confirmed by Juvia.

Why would Gray did not mention Elfman? If he wants to save some face. Like , "im fighting them together duhh" In short he can use it as a reason why he struggled. The only possible answer is he only fought an injured Mira.

There is no indication that Gray fought them together. If we actually base it on the narration before and after the fight since the fight was off paneled.

i dont get why people are skipping lucy and Cana? When they could knockout Elfman at that state. I doubt Elfman could take another hit From Lucy using her star dress mix and possibly a unison raid with Cana. Since he was also magically exhausted.

The group splits when Gray said : "leave it to me". He was sure to take them down as exaust while the girls split searching other people to take them in the cards. He underestimated them as Elfman wasn't count, as Lucy recalled them.

It was said that Kana and Lucy took Gajeel and Reby down when they were flirting. They were out of defense. Gramps was also in another place, defeated by Natsu. If the girls were into Gajeel's place and Makarov's place while Gray was fighting Mirajane, who defeat Elfman ?

You think Lucy and Kana can take on Elfman, change place taking on Gajeel and Makarov also in second place the time Gray fought Mira ? The girls can teleport ??

Gray never mentionned Elfman since they were speaking of Mira, even when Elfman was fighting aside her against Diabolos. It's a gag where characters hyped Mirajane and on the opposite, blasted Elfman away like he wasn't here.

I think we haven't got the same vision. It's ok for me.

 

[Jko]

Agree that Sting isn't Gray and Mira's tier. But stating DS Gray and FDK Natsu are <<< Mira and Elfman, I don't agree.
Is it because of their fights against same opponents ?

Then, look at Kyria. By your logic, Laxus should fodderize Erza even in his base lightning, the same way he did with Kyria, as Erza had hard time with her, while Laxus not. So : Laxus >>> Erza. Just like Elfman >>> Natsu FDK and Mira >>> Gray Ds.

But look at their duel : Erza tanked all Laxus's power until the end to a mismatch. And Laxus used RL wich is far stronger than the magic used to defeat Kyria.
This kind of logic is debatable.

Gray barely won against weakened siblings teaming up. Why can't he win against 1 in 1 vs 1 in same way ? They were weakened for sure, but fighting a team is harder than fighting 1 opponent. Still Gray hasn't release all his strength since his fight vs END. He is potentially far stronger than his current poor level. In base, yes Natsu and Gray are surely below Mira's. But in their mode, clearly I am not sure they are fodders. Both 4, with Elfman, are very strong.

Fact that Gray had handicap under water as he couldn't move freely while Mira could use her speed and agility to dodge. For me, Gray did not bad under circumstances : he matched a spell to the size of Elmina and forced Skullion using a stronger one. This AoE wasn't used vs Mira, perhaps because Mardmole was close to him.

DeS Gray <<< Mira. No one stated he is far less than Elf. 2 I said they are far above a Demo-fist not all of FDK Natsu's arsenal.

Kiria only hurt Erza through hax. Skullion straight up overpowered Gray. Erza also proved she was better when she beat Kiria with a fodder armor like Flame Empress lol. Erza also proved herself again by stalemating Laxus. While Gray admitted inferiority to both Mira and Skullion.

He only fought Mira and was stated to do his best against her ergo DeS. His Alvarez self only matched against people he was advantageous against while Mira needed no power up to beat a S12 and beat Jacob who she held no advantage against since she was nerfed.

Gray never had a disadvantage in the water since it was never stated or shown he was, Gray did not try to run up on Skullion again for R2 and waited for Mira to be weakened to fight her. There was nothing to suggest Gray fought Elf either and had a high diff fight against a weakened Mira. Mira stalemated Skullion and actually hurt him that is easily above Gray getting fodderize in two attacks. Black Ash obviously was just a fail against her since he was far more serious against Mira and stated they couldn't beat the Sibs either lol. Skullion = BSS >>> Gray tier.

 

[IamtherealMirajane]

The group splits when Gray said : "leave it to me". He was sure to take them down as exaust while the girls split searching other people to take them in the cards. He underestimated them as Elfman wasn't count, as Lucy recalled them.

It was said that Kana and Lucy took Gajeel and Reby down when they were flirting. They were out of defense. Gramps was also in another place, defeated by Natsu. If the girls were into Gajeel's place and Makarov's place while Gray was fighting Mirajane, who defeat Elfman ?

You think Lucy and Kana can take on Elfman, change place taking on Gajeel and Makarov also in second place the time Gray fought Mira ? The girls can teleport ??

Gray never mentionned Elfman since they were speaking of Mira, even when Elfman was fighting aside her against Diabolos. It's a gag where characters hyped Mirajane and on the opposite, blasted Elfman away like he wasn't here.

I think we haven't got the same vision. It's ok for me.

I think you skip the part where Lucy was asking on how they can knockout Mira. Which Gray replied it by saying leave it to him since Mira was too injured. Prompting Lucy to ask who would take care about Elfman? Implying that Elfman will be their Opponent since Gray already chose Mira.

 

[Ronin31]

Prompting Lucy to ask who would take care about Elfman?

Agree for Gray waiting Mira to be exaust. Can you show me the scan of Lucy asking who would take care about Elf, please ?

 

[Sevently]

darkness gray stomps both mira & skullion
100yq mira is stronger than 100yq gray
mira low diff minerva

 

[Jhonatas Fernandes]

Irene was still capable of fighting and it was used as gag bcs Erza hadn't got laid lol. Again self hype. No noted he was above regular S12 MP just that his MP was weird. Also who cares if hax works on them? Several S12s hax could if they don't counter it, doesn't make them top 3 lol.

Him becoming stronger did not put him at Natsu's level. Rogue got solo-ed by Gajeel in Base w/o a scratch. Sting is relative to Rogue. Cool did not state they were hardcore training like FT was.

Jeimma hit an unsuspecting Gray, he did not stop his attacks at all. He then pushed back Natsu like once, but did no significant damage to him. The battle didn't change until Natsu stepped in amd he was leading the fight. Neither were Natsu's level.

Base Natsu fought Zeref the same way he fought Jacob.

Spoiler

Not an excuse since attack potency exists. Natsu doesn't have to destroy rocks when we already know his DC to quantify his AP. Natsu was using his flames the entire fight lmao.

Spoiler

There was only two times he did damage to Jacob and that with a combo attack and FDK. Base Sting is fodder to Base Natsu. None of Sting's attacks are one Base Natsu's level.

Because one was respectful while the other was disrespectful. Them out ranking J/H is meaningless since J/H are only enchantments thus wouldn't be eligible to be a S12 lmao. J/H contending with BSS >>> Neintrash who was a S12 and they did better than Jacob. Jacob is not weak without transport as shown when he was no selling Base Natsu hits. That is far above Larcade getting tossed by Base Sting. Erza was pinned to the floor and was helpless to do anything that is pretty much a loss. Erza also got stomped by Ajeel once he got serious so her Irene feats aren't consistent with her actual showings. The only reason Erza did so well was a combo of Wendy BS, Irene holding back, and PoF. Simple as that. Erza would have been fodder stomped by Irene who wasn't held back by plot. She got straight up overpowered by enchanted fodder.

Mira straight up stalemated them. She landed hits that damaged them. Gray was straight up fodderize by Skullion point blank and his one attack that landed did no damage to Skullion. Mira didn't just dodge one attack she actually stalemated the guy while Gray was again fodderized. The likes of Minerva at best could do is runaway so your analogy doesn't even make sense. It was stated he could not do anything against them the second time around and left it to Mira to handle. Gray is inferior to BSS by feats. A weakened Elfman is not a threat that's why so dunno why'd you bring him up lmao. Natsu did not know Elf's new power level lol. Elf is literally above a Demo-fist in power by feats of hurting Madmole that no sold one. Elf also beat a S12. So again Elf not weak and proved he isn't. He has better feats than Sting lol. They literally stated it was a tie and were beat up heavily and sweating lmak. Natsu had to roast Madmole with his heat in order to hurt him, he failed to do so with pure power.

Spoiler

Mira and Elf did it with actual power attacks which makes it an even better feat. Also I want to note again, she stalemated them in BSS lmao. WSM =< Gray <<<<<<< Skullion = BSS. Simple as that. Larcade isn't the top 3 strongest and his stats are garbage even in comparison to Jacob who no sold Base Natsu attacks. Minerva beating a fodder H12 ain't a feat even worth mention as the H12 were legit stated by Gild to be fodder version of their original power.

Spoiler

I'm not. Sabertooth is just not that strong. WSM Sting is not even solidly Gray tier, who is far below the likes of BSS and the rest are fodder. Literally Elfman has far better feats than WSM since Elf >>> Demofist which is far stronger than likes of WSM. Mira also has no disadvantages against WSM like Larcade had either and her physical abilities are far above the likes of Larcade. Mira bodies, adding Rogue's powers to Sting is not enough to overcome the gap between him and Mira.

- It doesn't matter if Irene was still capable of fighting. Erza overcame her dragon form and her strongest spell, which is way superior to beating two subalterns using your strongest attack. You can't compare it.
Mavis reacting scared just about August, Irene and Larcade when all the 12 were together shows that they are the strongest of the group. It's a narrative way of establishing it. And the manga put Larcade saying it and Zeref hyping him, etc. Larcade was the 3rd strongest Spriggan.
- Actually, Sting was stronger than Rogue in the end of GMG. Minerva chose Sting as the Sabertooth secret armor in the tournament because he woke up his ''true power'' when Jienma ''killed''Lecter. The same wasn't said about Rogue. We can assume that Rogue was able to raise his level after because they seem to be close in Tartaros, but it wasn't the case during the end of GMG, according to the narrative.

- Jienma destroyed the iced plant that he was into and hit Gray before Gray could finish same the attack that defeated Tempester, who couldn't even react to it. Very good feat! Source: https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Fairy-Tail/0408-007.png , https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Fairy-Tail/0408-008.png

- Nope, at least, base Natsu used flame named spells against Zeref, even on the page that you bring it's possible to see it. The only named spell that Natsu used again Jaboc before the finalization was a ''Dragon claw''. He fought basically with pure taijutsu without flames and Natsu didn't show be able to defeat anyone with just that, and, of course, Sting using his power is above Natsu fighting without flames.

- Neinhart can't be worst at endurance than Heyne and Juliet, because he is really bad at tanking attacks, but he knocked out Erza, he has strong magic that can make him defeat strong wizards, he just needs to hide. H/J haven't good magic, so doesn't matter if they are above Neinhart in tanking attacks, they are below him in the rest. They still subalterns. A Spriggan doesn't need to be good in all attributes. Jacob is the same as Neinhart: weak if he didn't use his spatial magic. So, again: Mira defeating Jacob isn't something really good, it works to the situation, after all Mirajane was with low magic, but Jacob is weak without his hax magic.

- We didn't see any good damage in Skullrion or Madmole, just scratches. And of course, if Mirajane has the tool to escape the ash vortex, her body will not turn to ash and she will not die and will endure more time and have better ways to fight the opponent and damage the opponent. It doesn't mean that she is stronger than Gray because of it.
Jacob is a good example to illustrate it: he can send all team Natsu to his spatial area, and just Lucy has a tool to defend herself against it. If she only protects herself with Horologium she would outlast all the team and damage Jacob more than any of the team too because they fell too early for the attack, but she isn't stronger than Natsu, Erza or Gray...

Irene was still capable of fighting and it was used as gag bcs Erza hadn't got laid lol. Again self hype. No noted he was above regular S12 MP just that his MP was weird. Also who cares if hax works on them? Several S12s hax could if they don't counter it, doesn't make them top 3 lol.

Him becoming stronger did not put him at Natsu's level. Rogue got solo-ed by Gajeel in Base w/o a scratch. Sting is relative to Rogue. Cool did not state they were hardcore training like FT was.

Jeimma hit an unsuspecting Gray, he did not stop his attacks at all. He then pushed back Natsu like once, but did no significant damage to him. The battle didn't change until Natsu stepped in amd he was leading the fight. Neither were Natsu's level.

Base Natsu fought Zeref the same way he fought Jacob.

Spoiler

Not an excuse since attack potency exists. Natsu doesn't have to destroy rocks when we already know his DC to quantify his AP. Natsu was using his flames the entire fight lmao.

Spoiler

There was only two times he did damage to Jacob and that with a combo attack and FDK. Base Sting is fodder to Base Natsu. None of Sting's attacks are one Base Natsu's level.

Because one was respectful while the other was disrespectful. Them out ranking J/H is meaningless since J/H are only enchantments thus wouldn't be eligible to be a S12 lmao. J/H contending with BSS >>> Neintrash who was a S12 and they did better than Jacob. Jacob is not weak without transport as shown when he was no selling Base Natsu hits. That is far above Larcade getting tossed by Base Sting. Erza was pinned to the floor and was helpless to do anything that is pretty much a loss. Erza also got stomped by Ajeel once he got serious so her Irene feats aren't consistent with her actual showings. The only reason Erza did so well was a combo of Wendy BS, Irene holding back, and PoF. Simple as that. Erza would have been fodder stomped by Irene who wasn't held back by plot. She got straight up overpowered by enchanted fodder.

Mira straight up stalemated them. She landed hits that damaged them. Gray was straight up fodderize by Skullion point blank and his one attack that landed did no damage to Skullion. Mira didn't just dodge one attack she actually stalemated the guy while Gray was again fodderized. The likes of Minerva at best could do is runaway so your analogy doesn't even make sense. It was stated he could not do anything against them the second time around and left it to Mira to handle. Gray is inferior to BSS by feats. A weakened Elfman is not a threat that's why so dunno why'd you bring him up lmao. Natsu did not know Elf's new power level lol. Elf is literally above a Demo-fist in power by feats of hurting Madmole that no sold one. Elf also beat a S12. So again Elf not weak and proved he isn't. He has better feats than Sting lol. They literally stated it was a tie and were beat up heavily and sweating lmak. Natsu had to roast Madmole with his heat in order to hurt him, he failed to do so with pure power.

Spoiler

Mira and Elf did it with actual power attacks which makes it an even better feat. Also I want to note again, she stalemated them in BSS lmao. WSM =< Gray <<<<<<< Skullion = BSS. Simple as that. Larcade isn't the top 3 strongest and his stats are garbage even in comparison to Jacob who no sold Base Natsu attacks. Minerva beating a fodder H12 ain't a feat even worth mention as the H12 were legit stated by Gild to be fodder version of their original power.

Spoiler

I'm not. Sabertooth is just not that strong. WSM Sting is not even solidly Gray tier, who is far below the likes of BSS and the rest are fodder. Literally Elfman has far better feats than WSM since Elf >>> Demofist which is far stronger than likes of WSM. Mira also has no disadvantages against WSM like Larcade had either and her physical abilities are far above the likes of Larcade. Mira bodies, adding Rogue's powers to Sting is not enough to overcome the gap between him and Mira.

- It doesn't matter if Irene was still capable of fighting. Erza overcame her dragon form and her strongest spell, which is way superior to beating two subalterns using your strongest attack. You can't compare it.
Mavis reacting scared just about August, Irene and Larcade when all the 12 were together shows that they are the strongest of the group. It's a narrative way of establishing it. And the manga put Larcade saying it and Zeref hyping him, etc. Larcade was the 3rd strongest Spriggan.
- Actually, Sting was stronger than Rogue at the end of GMG. Minerva chose Sting as the Sabertooth trump card in the tournament because he woke up his ''true power'' when Jienma ''killed''Lecter. The same wasn't said about Rogue. We can assume that Rogue was able to raise his level after because they seem to be close in Tartaros, but it wasn't the case during the end of GMG, according to the narrative.

- Jienma destroyed the iced plant that he was into and hit Gray before Gray could finish same the attack that defeated Tempester, who couldn't even react to it. Good feat! Source: https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Fairy-Tail/0408-007.png , https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Fairy-Tail/0408-008.png

- Nope, at least, base Natsu used flame named spells against Zeref, even on the page that you bring it's possible to see it. The only named spell that Natsu used again Jaboc before the finalization was a ''Dragon claw''. He fought basically with pure taijutsu without flames and Natsu didn't show be able to defeat anyone with just that, and, of course, Sting using his power is above Natsu fighting without flames.

- Neinhart can be worst at endurance than Heyne and Juliet because he is really bad at tanking attacks, but he knocked out Erza, he has strong magic that can make him defeat strong wizards, he just needs to stay hidden and not take the front line in the battle. H/J haven't good magic, so doesn't matter if they are above Neinhart in tanking attacks, they are below him in the rest. They still subalterns. A Spriggan doesn't need to be good in all attributes. Jacob's case is the same as Neinhart: weak if he didn't use his spatial magic. So, again: Mira defeating Jacob isn't something really good, it works to the situation, after all, Mirajane was with low magic, but Jacob is quite weak without his hax magic.

- We didn't see any good damage in Skullrion or Madmole, just scratches. And of course, if Mirajane has the tool to escape the ash vortex, her body will not turn to ash and she will not die and will endure more time and have better ways to fight and damage the opponent. It doesn't mean that she is stronger than Gray because of it.
Jacob is a good example to illustrate it: he can send all team Natsu to his spatial area, and just Lucy has a tool to defend herself against it. If she only protects herself with Horologium she would outlast all the rest of the team and would damage Jacob more than any of the team too because they fell too early for the attack, but she isn't stronger than Natsu, Erza or Gray...

- Gray isn't inferior to Mirajane ''by feats'', and you're again overhyping. Can you prove that Elfman ''scratched'' Madmole on his own and not with a Unison Raid with Mirajane, since the fight was 2 x 2 and not 1 x 1? Because I can prove that Elfman hit Madmole and was hurt by it to the extent of undoing his Take Over (image). Can you prove that Madmole armor didn't get weaker by the time he expands magic power? Can you prove that hurt Skullrion (just scratches again) is a good feat of attack power? Because he didn't tank anything before the fight with Strauss, his actions in the previous battles were make the attack pass through his intangible body.

- Mirajane Base Satan Soul still strong and the better Soul to fight if she wants a long-time battle. Her magic is: the stronger the demon, the more MP is spent quickly.
About her arsenal: Sitri didn't have a really good upgrade comparing to BSS (feats), Mirajane-Sayla can use Macro, but she didn't prove to be able to it satisfactorily in wizards who possess the same level of strength as her, Mirajane-Alegria drains quickly her MP and it's a Soul who uses physical attacks (against an intangible opponent). So it seems BSS (that can fly and make huge explosions) is the best option.

- Minerva didn't beat a fodder. She started to fight Wahl after God Serena's defeat, so Neinhart was just keeping two Historias and, after that, Irene enchanted him and filled and expanded his MP:

Spoiler

- To finish: Larcade IS stronger than Skullrion and Madmole until now. Madmole resistance would perish to ''Rest in Peace''. Larcade's ''hunger'' decreases the opponent's strength. Overall, Larcade's magic is even more difficult to deal with than Skullrion's and Madmole's.
So if you still insisting on only count the strength of the opponent Sting WSD is clearly able to face a fight with Mirajane and even win.

 

[Ronin31]

I agree with nearly all the thing. Mirajane's way to use her magic is smart : like you said, it's the most balance mode for a long fight.
If I put analogy, her Modes are basicaaly the same way as Dragon Ball Z Super Saiyajin : Super Saiyan 1 is the weakest but still the most balance one in raw power / MP. SSJ 3, just like Alegria, is the strongest one but can only be use for a very short time, draining all energy (a 2 blades weapon).
So, for me, Mirajane did her best against them, just like Elfman who impressed me in this Arc.

It's also unshown how Mardmole and Skullion received the scratches. Like you said, perhaps Unisson Raid or their "invulnerabilities" low in analogy with their power reserve. It's options.

But for sure, Elfman, with his strongest Beast couldn't affect Mardmole Armor, just like Natsu with his bare punch (FDK). Mirajane who was amped by adrenaline seeing Lisana being earsed in front of her (Gemini), couldn't also touch Skullion : physical brawling + Energy Blast.

So in 1 vs 1 they couldn't affect them or show me scans. The fact is that they didn't do much just more than Natsu and Grey. They resist more than Natsu but Natsu was defeated by his weakness : boat. So Elfman's prestation = Natsu's. Mirajane resists more than Gray, but they were under water where mobility isn't the same. Mashima hadn't to tell us Gray had handicap, it's physical : you are slower under water than on earth. Still Gray could counter AoE Spell the size of Elmina and then was finished with a name spell. Mirajane didn't counter any Skullions attacks, only dodge, while Gray couldn't.

In my opinion, Natsu / Gray's prestation are around Mira / Elfman's.

Also, Gray and the girls overhyped Mirajane's strength, as they expected her to defeat Diabolos Duo by her own, as she couldn't loose. That's their words.
The fact is that she couldn't win with Elfman's help, who seems currently nearly as tough as her.

 

[AWater22]

MACRO MACRO MACRO!!!