Voting Round 1 Natsu Dragneel vs. Licht

[Ronin31]

If Natsu starts in base he is dead imo.

Natsu always starts in Base. He uses Modes like Fire Dragon King and Lightning Flame when he is angry and then Dragon Force when he doesn't have to hold back his rage and strength.

Licht does not have light magic. I believe you're thinking of Patolli.
--- Double Post Merged, Today at 12:46 AM, Original Post Date: Today at 12:44 AM ---
Not to mention those feats against Jellal that you mention are from chapters 40~50. Understandably, Natsu by now is far faster and stronger than that. Just by scaling his growth from some of his older feats he should be, imho, a big step above Licht.

Yes, about Licht I put a mistake. I made an amalgam with Patolli. Sorry.

For Jellal, it was only an exemple. My sentence was more center on Aldoron speed attack where Natsu couldn't even react. But the case is different if Licht hasn't got Light Magic.

ver since Natsu just went and burnt through space-time godtier magic... and taking into account random feats like when that stadium melt around him when he was way weaker than he is now... We could even make a point that Licht, no matter how fast he is, simply can't get close enough without getting burnt.

I agree and you made a point.

The basis to assume Licht is literal light speed is to assume light magic moves at literal light speed (since Licht moved at a similar speed than the first Hokage Magic Emperor), an assumption we could just easily make for the light dragon slayer Sting who Natsu handled like a baby.

Sting isn't based on speed. He is White Dragon Slayer and can't move so fast to seemingly teleport like Patolli, Julius and Kizaru can.

But like I said, if Licht has only those swords, the fight can be different, but not necessary easy fight for Natsu. Yes, he can melt the area and Licht can't enter, but you have to take account that Dispelda can annihilate this spell and counter attack. I think, without light speed, yes Natsu can move and react fast enough to put a fight, but these swords are problematics as they can counter or drain his spells to revert them back.

In my opinion, this fight is close one. The fact is that Natsu is certainly stronger and more durable but Licht has superior stamina (Mana).

Yes Natsu can enhance his powers with emotions to be almost unstoppable, but only for a one shot. If he touch him with such power, Licht is dead. If Licht can dodge or counter this attack, Natsu is out of Magic, end of the fight as well.

Without my amalgam, I can see Natsu winning here but in a hard fight. In that way, I change my vote in favor to Natsu.

 

[LadyVados]

I think, without light speed, yes Natsu can move and react fast enough to put a fight, but these swords are problematics as they can counter or drain his spells to revert them back.

I disagree, Licht could blitz Asta who has much better speed feats than Natsu

 

[Ronin31]

I disagree, Licht could blitz Asta who has much better speed feats than Natsu

I watched their fight again. Sure he is fast, but Yuno and Asta could physically attack him. Natsu can melt huge AoE attacks, the size of Yuno's, and more. Natsu isn't a speedster but I think even in base, he can react faster than base Asta. He also has more experience in combat and yes, faced speedsters before. Against Patolli, Julius or Kizaru, I don't think Natsu can compete against such teleport speed. Here, yes he can. Experience and Dragon Slayer's enhance senses can average him in this fight. He should deal more than Yuno or Asta.

For me, speed is neither advantage as Yuno and Asta could be in contact. I think Natsu can as well, especially in Dragon Force where his speed is also increase by some mergin.

The problem is the swords. Yuno used huge and strong spells, as huge as Natsu's in some way and Licht drains them to revert them back.
In that way, I can put a draw : Natsu is stronger and more durable but Licht can counter his spells.

But if Natsu can use his emotional to his limit break, as he did destroying Fairy Heart, an infinite Magic, can't he destroy Drainda with such power ?
The fight is resume here : can the Swords counter Magic Limitbreaker ? Can Natsu bypass the Anti-Magic drain ?

As rules are differnents because they are in differents Mangas, we can't answer. But if Natsu can strike Licht with some spells, like when Licht strikes him, then, Natsu who can tank more, can put a win.

Still Licht is incredibly strong. Yes I changed my vote but for me, it's extreme difficulty for Natsu.

 

[LadyVados]

I watched their fight again. Sure he is fast, but Yuno and Asta could physically attack him. Natsu can melt huge AoE attacks, the size of Yuno's, and more. Natsu isn't a speedster but I think even in base, he can react faster than base Asta. He also has more experience in combat and yes, faced speedsters before. Against Patolli, Julius or Kizaru, I don't think Natsu can compete against such teleport speed. Here, yes he can. Experience and Dragon Slayer's enhance senses can average him in this fight. He should deal more than Yuno or Asta.

For me, speed is neither advantage as Yuno and Asta could be in contact. I think Natsu can as well, especially in Dragon Force where his speed is also increase by some mergin.

The problem is the swords. Yuno used huge and strong spells, as huge as Natsu's in some way and Licht drains them to revert them back.
In that way, I can put a draw : Natsu is stronger and more durable but Licht can counter his spells.

But if Natsu can use his emotional to his limit break, as he did destroying Fairy Heart, an infinite Magic, can't he destroy Drainda with such power ?
The fight is resume here : can the Swords counter Magic Limitbreaker ? Can Natsu bypass the Anti-Magic drain ?

As rules are differnents because they are in differents Mangas, we can't answer. But if Natsu can strike Licht with some spells, like when Licht strikes him, then, Natsu who can tank more, can put a win.

Still Licht is incredibly strong. Yes I changed my vote but for me, it's extreme difficulty for Natsu.

Base Asta has reacted to lightspeeders, that's way beyond anyone in FT.

He took his sword from Asta before he could do anything.

 

[Ronin31]

Base Asta has reacted to lightspeeders, that's way beyond anyone in FT.

I don't think Base Asta can move that fast.

He took his sword from Asta before he could do anything.

When he took the sword, neither Asta and Yuno were in movement. Asta couldn't react because he couldn't see him moving and didn't sense his Ki.
Natsu is more intuitive and experience than Asta.

Like I said, hard battle : magic vs anti-magic, strength and durability vs speed. I think Natsu can put a win by tanking more than Licht.

 

[LadyVados]

I don't think Base Asta can move that fast.



When he took the sword, neither Asta and Yuno were in movement. Asta couldn't react because he couldn't see him moving and didn't sense his Ki.
Natsu is more intuitive and experience than Asta.

Like I said, hard battle : magic vs anti-magic, strength and durability vs speed. I think Natsu can put a win by tanking more than Licht.

if Dragon Force is disabled then he can't tank as much as Licht.

 

[Ronin31]

if Dragon Force is disabled then he can't tank as much as Licht.

In my opinion, even without Dragon Force, Natsu is tougher than Licht physically. And again, we haven't got the answer that Licht can disable his Dragon Force. Like we don't know if Anti-Magic can counter Natsu's limitbreak's strike and vice versa.

As we don't have the answer, we have only to take account the character's habilities which can be use in a fair battle :
- Natsu can enter Dragon Force at will when he has enough of the fight.
- Licht can drain and counter Magic Spells and revert them back to deal damage.

In that way, I display Natsu's limitbreak to destroy Anti-Magic Swords and Anti-Magic Swords countering the Limitbreak. No answer...
I also display the spell to disable Dragon Force. No answer as well.

Not same rules as different Mangas.

Natsu wins only by his upper physical durability. But Licht is a very hard challenger.

 

[LadyVados]

In my opinion, even without Dragon Force, Natsu is tougher than Licht physically. And again, we haven't got the answer that Licht can disable his Dragon Force. Like we don't know if Anti-Magic can counter Natsu's limitbreak's strike and vice versa.

As we don't have the answer, we have only to take account the character's habilities which can be use in a fair battle :
- Natsu can enter Dragon Force at will when he has enough of the fight.
- Licht can drain and counter Magic Spells and revert them back to deal damage.

In that way, I display Natsu's limitbreak to destroy Anti-Magic Swords and Anti-Magic Swords countering the Limitbreak. No answer...
I also display the spell to disable Dragon Force. No answer as well.

Not same rules as different Mangas.

Natsu wins only by his upper physical durability. But Licht is a very hard challenger.

I disagree with this. Natsu without Dragon Force is weaker and less durable than Licht. He has no feats approaching Licht.

 

[Nie Li]

Licht has his strengths, but to me he's simply inferior. f I considered him to be on Natsu's tier then he'd have the upper hand with his set of skills when compared to Natsu's, but I think he's comparatively too weak in his stats for that to make a difference.

I don't think this discussion can go much further as its started going in circles so I probably won't add more. Nice to see such a disagreement in this fight, though, I have no idea who will win the poll.

 

[M3J]

Natsu sucks, and so does FT, so I'm voting for Licht.

 

[Ramen]

Natsu is way too slow for this.