Games Overwatch

[GrySun]

The execution is an unknown for me since we still don't know what the price will be. I can appreciate them not leaving the first game in the dust, as well as everyone's achievements and cosmetics. And releasing multiple new maps and heroes at once with it's release might reinvigorate the game.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 3, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 3, 2019 ---

@GrySun curious about your thoughts on it?

On OW2? Meh is the short answer.
No release date or anything atm for me to think about it too much. Afaik it‘s a separate game that has a possibly different engine, and only PVE. The multiplayer game is in 1. Later sometime they‘ll merge into 2 which will have both the PVE and multiplayer.

What you pay for is the PVE only, if you don‘t buy it when they merge it‘ll be unavailable to you but the multiplayer will be.

As for whether I‘ll play it, depends on reviews, price and other research to know whether it‘ll be awful like Archives/their other PvE events or if it‘ll be a fun multiplayer game with friends.

 

[xi0]

On OW2? Meh is the short answer.
No release date or anything atm for me to think about it too much. Afaik it‘s a separate game that has a possibly different engine, and only PVE. The multiplayer game is in 1. Later sometime they‘ll merge into 2 which will have both the PVE and multiplayer.

What you pay for is the PVE only, if you don‘t buy it when they merge it‘ll be unavailable to you but the multiplayer will be.

As for whether I‘ll play it, depends on reviews, price and other research to know whether it‘ll be awful like Archives/their other PvE events or if it‘ll be a fun multiplayer game with friends.

Where did you see info about it being merged later on? I didn't hear anything like that. The base OW game will still exist whether you have OW2 or not. I know they're saying this is a sequel but everything I've seen suggests it'll function more like an expansion.

The bigger issue is it seems like OW will be left to squander with no real hero/map additions until whenever this is released.

 

[GrySun]

Where did you see info about it being merged later on? I didn't hear anything like that. The base OW game will still exist whether you have OW2 or not. I know they're saying this is a sequel but everything I've seen suggests it'll function more like an expansion.

The bigger issue is it seems like OW will be left to squander with no real hero/map additions until whenever this is released.

Don’t remember where I first heard it, but here is a source saying it:

Yeah, they said they will „focus more on 2 and less on 1“. Just another excuse after „working on OWL“ excuse they used for why nothing new happened with the game for a year or more. Small indie company can‘t do much.

 

[xi0]

Don’t remember where I first heard it, but here is a source saying it:

Hmm, that's kind of weird wording IMO. It could mean "eventually" is when OW2 is released, instead of some arbitrary time after. I'm not sure... It doesn't make much sense to me to have them be separate from the beginning if OW will basically exist within OW2.

Yeah, they said they will „focus more on 2 and less on 1“. Just another excuse after „working on OWL“ excuse they used for why nothing new happened with the game for a year or more. Small indie company can‘t do much.

They used OWL as an excuse? Wat... What does OWL have to do with game development? They had to hire people to run the esports aspect of it, not more developers?

 

[GrySun]

Hmm, that's kind of weird wording IMO. It could mean "eventually" is when OW2 is released, instead of some arbitrary time after. I'm not sure... It doesn't make much sense to me to have them be separate from the beginning if OW will basically exist within OW2.

It does make sense if you assume they focus on getting the PvE part out first asap, so implementing the multiplayer is something they‘d do afterwards. And no point in not releasing the game and cashing in for the PvE part, then adding multiplayer after. Focusing their whole team on it etc.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 3, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 3, 2019 ---

They used OWL as an excuse? Wat... What does OWL have to do with game development? They had to hire people to run the esports aspect of it, not more developers?

Pretty sure they did. Nothing with the game development itself, but the OW team was focusing on making a separate thing the pros play on(with the colors and spectator possibilities), and maybe some other things. A bad excuse but people ate it up and were satisfied enough, by saying „OWL being more popular will make OW better!“. Eh.

 

[xi0]

It does make sense if you assume they focus on getting the PvE part out first asap, so implementing the multiplayer is something they‘d do afterwards. And no point in not releasing the game and cashing in for the PvE part, then adding multiplayer after. Focusing their whole team on it etc.

There's nothing really to implement with multiplayer though, since the maps they showed off in Rio, Toronto, Gothenburg, and Monte Carlo will exist as PvP maps as well. The majority of the heroes don't even seem to be options for PvE stuff either except for Hero Missions maybe. All maps and heroes coming to the original game as well means PvP including them would need to happen at the same time IMO.

Pretty sure they did. Nothing with the game development itself, but the OW team was focusing on making a separate thing the pros play on(with the colors and spectator possibilities), and maybe some other things. A bad excuse but people ate it up and were satisfied enough, by saying „OWL being more popular will make OW better!“. Eh.

Weird, since designing the Home/Away uniforms weren't much more than palette swaps, but I guess the spectator client might have taken work. OWL is pretty terrible though IMO. They don't make balance changes enough for it to stay fresh, metas last nearly entire seasons because of it. There's not enough hero variety to choose from either, so it amounts to very little strategic choice from map to map. It doesn't do anything that CSGO or LoL/Dota don't already do better.

 

[Reebi]

As someone from Toronto, the Toronto Map is off. Not enough ugly, new condo buildings

 

[GrySun]

There's nothing really to implement with multiplayer though, since the maps they showed off in Rio, Toronto, Gothenburg, and Monte Carlo will exist as PvP maps as well. The majority of the heroes don't even seem to be options for PvE stuff either except for Hero Missions maybe. All maps and heroes coming to the original game as well means PvP including them would need to happen at the same time IMO.

If they‘re different engines there‘s more to do than copypaste. They could also be working on different changes like to the queue system before the merge. It‘s also possible that the PvE won‘t be fully out when it releases, think I read that they plan to give updates to it in form of new missions etc. They‘ll have their small team prolly focus on that until someone tells them to merge.

Weird, since designing the Home/Away uniforms weren't much more than palette swaps, but I guess the spectator client might have taken work. OWL is pretty terrible though IMO. They don't make balance changes enough for it to stay fresh, metas last nearly entire seasons because of it. There's not enough hero variety to choose from either, so it amounts to very little strategic choice from map to map. It doesn't do anything that CSGO or LoL/Dota don't already do better.

Stale is the best word I could describe it with. Was interesting watching a bit in the past, but you certainly don‘t need to see more han a few games per season since they‘re all mostly the same games with same heroes. You don‘t have people famous for their heroes in OW like in LoL/Dota, like someone being a godly Genji, since everyone‘s forced to play the same meta to have any success. Think the OWL shows best how badly they balance it, idk about LoL but Dota metas never never are that restrictive, and due to banning phase when picking they can directly exclude what hero will be in the game.

As someone from Toronto, the Toronto Map is off. Not enough ugly, new condo buildings

It is set in the future, so maybe they‘r spoiling you the new pretty future Toronto

 

[xi0]

If they‘re different engines there‘s more to do than copypaste. They could also be working on different changes like to the queue system before the merge. It‘s also possible that the PvE won‘t be fully out when it releases, think I read that they plan to give updates to it in form of new missions etc. They‘ll have their small team prolly focus on that until someone tells them to merge.

The fact that none of this is clear enough or that they don't even know themselves is part of the problem. This and Diablo 4 seemed pretty rushed and in response to how bad last Blizzcon was. People getting all upset about it being leaked, but that really wouldn't have mattered if the substance was more exciting itself. You really don't see the same sort of confusion and disappointment following the new WoW expansion announcement, since we have a pretty clear idea of how it will work, when it is coming, etc.

Stale is the best word I could describe it with. Was interesting watching a bit in the past, but you certainly don‘t need to see more han a few games per season since they‘re all mostly the same games with same heroes. You don‘t have people famous for their heroes in OW like in LoL/Dota, like someone being a godly Genji, since everyone‘s forced to play the same meta to have any success. Think the OWL shows best how badly they balance it, idk about LoL but Dota metas never never are that restrictive, and due to banning phase when picking they can directly exclude what hero will be in the game.

Yeah, there's not enough different to where I would want to regularly watch it.

Meta in LoL can probably be a bit more restrictive than Dota, but it's still 10x more deep than OWL has ever been. Plus it changes so often that even if there's a distinct meta it doesn't last an entire damn season. People still have their pocket picks or unconventional strategies that work. OWL games will have people trying weird shit for a single minute and when it fails they just default back to the same old shit because it's "the best".

There's also the issue that the entire esports scene was manufactured in the first place. Games like CS/Dota/LoL had existing fanbases with competitive scenes that went back years in many places. It just seems rather fake, and a shrewd business move on Blizzard's part in order to capitalize on the game's popularity and the type of structure that existed for other games.

 

[GrySun]

The fact that none of this is clear enough or that they don't even know themselves is part of the problem. This and Diablo 4 seemed pretty rushed and in response to how bad last Blizzcon was. People getting all upset about it being leaked, but that really wouldn't have mattered if the substance was more exciting itself. You really don't see the same sort of confusion and disappointment following the new WoW expansion announcement, since we have a pretty clear idea of how it will work, when it is coming, etc.

Yeah I saw that the blizzard people said they were sad about the leaks and blame them for ruining the reveal. While I agree leaks take out from the surprise moment, you‘re right that what‘s shown is far from great. I at least expected release dates or concrete information, but it‘s really like they‘re showing little bits of as much as possible(wow, diablo, ow and more) to make the blizzcon look more content filled than it really was.

The WoW part being better planned and structured is probably because it‘s been in the works for longer?

Yeah, there's not enough different to where I would want to regularly watch it.

Meta in LoL can probably be a bit more restrictive than Dota, but it's still 10x more deep than OWL has ever been. Plus it changes so often that even if there's a distinct meta it doesn't last an entire damn season. People still have their pocket picks or unconventional strategies that work. OWL games will have people trying weird shit for a single minute and when it fails they just default back to the same old shit because it's "the best".

There's also the issue that the entire esports scene was manufactured in the first place. Games like CS/Dota/LoL had existing fanbases with competitive scenes that went back years in many places. It just seems rather fake, and a shrewd business move on Blizzard's part in order to capitalize on the game's popularity and the type of structure that existed for other games.

Yeah, they put it lots of effort to „groom“ OWL into becoming a respected esport and I wouldn‘t say they‘ve been successful. Maybe I‘m a conspiracy theorist on this one but I‘m skeptical about the authencity of parts of their crowd. Though not sure if they‘d do something like paying people to pretend they‘re fans to make OWL look more significant, but seeing how much they manufactured it it‘s not farfetched.

 

[xi0]

Yeah I saw that the blizzard people said they were sad about the leaks and blame them for ruining the reveal. While I agree leaks take out from the surprise moment, you‘re right that what‘s shown is far from great. I at least expected release dates or concrete information, but it‘s really like they‘re showing little bits of as much as possible(wow, diablo, ow and more) to make the blizzcon look more content filled than it really was.

The WoW part being better planned and structured is probably because it‘s been in the works for longer?

Yeah, it seems kind of disingenuous to blame the response on leaks or Blizzard's shit PR as of late. I think the Diablo 4 response is more positive than OW2, but the fact that it seems so much more further out makes people less positive. Unlike the D4 cinematic, there's simply nothing mindblowing about OW2, and selling it as a sequel when it isn't really also seems a bit cynical. Not sure if that was Jeff's intention, but it still looks weird, especially if it's higher than OW's original pricepoint.

I leave WoW out of it, since a new expansion reveal is practically scheduled for every other Blizzcon at this point. It would be more of a surprise if they didn't announce one. And yeah, they work on two expansions at once iirc.

Yeah, they put it lots of effort to „groom“ OWL into becoming a respected esport and I wouldn‘t say they‘ve been successful. Maybe I‘m a conspiracy theorist on this one but I‘m skeptical about the authencity of parts of their crowd. Though not sure if they‘d do something like paying people to pretend they‘re fans to make OWL look more significant, but seeing how much they manufactured it it‘s not farfetched.

Oh no doubt, the "PAID FANS" meme has to have some truth to it. If Blizzard isn't doing it, then the people who own the teams are paying up.

 

[Sky]

So if this actually gets a fulfilling campaign which I am able to play and enjoy as a single player, they might gain me as a customer.

 

[Hakuteiken]

So if this actually gets a fulfilling campaign which I am able to play and enjoy as a single player, they might gain me as a customer.

I don't think that will happen. The lore has never looked that much interesting for the OW universe. All Overwatch 2 will be (as I expect) a pwn-them-all co-op shooter that swarms you with hordes of enemies. Hero progression with hero missions is the only thing that looks better than the initial game. Even that progress unlocks dumb looking abilities so that you can destroy hordes of enemies in different ways.

I'd rather play more of Destiny 2's campaign for free than pay Blizzard for a similarly half-baked story (could be worse, yet to be seen) and likely more lackluster gameplay. But hey, knowing me and other people, this will be the "in" thing and we will end up buying it.

 

[xi0]

The lore has some interesting pieces in place, but the fact they've never been interested in telling the story through the freaking game always left me a bit uninterested. I suppose Story Missions will be a story campaign of sorts, but how big that will be and how often they'll add to it are big questions. If they're not going to be charging money for new Story Mission DLC after launch, then we'd probably be relegated to what we have now, a single Story Mission every year during the Archives event in April.

 

[riki]

New hero has been announced

 

[xi0]

Sigma was like 9 months ago or something, so I assumed they'd be holding off on adding anyone new until whenever OW2 was released, weird.