Movies Star Wars - The Thread

[Mighty Action X]

Re: Star Wars - The Thread

Marzarret, if you want confirmations;

Spoiler

Spoiler

Yes, Kylo Ren is actually Ben Solo, son of Han and Leia. And indeed, the force awakens in Rey and She shows massive potential. She is draw to Lukes old saber, and seems to follow in his footsteps.

Luke or Anakin's?

 

[HereNThere]

Re: Star Wars - The Thread

Luke or Anakin's?

Spoiler

Spoiler

Luke's.

I saw the film last night and found it to be good, one of the best I've seen this year, but everything Ustegius said about the script is correct.

I'm already seeing a divide on the humor as well. It's actually leading some folks to dislike said character because they felt the humor with them fell flat.

 

[xi0]

Re: Star Wars - The Thread

It's a really solid movie and great effort to establishing a new story. It isn't without some issues though. It may be the problem with it being part of a 3-part story, but some of the characters felt rather thin and without much exposition. Again, I like that Abrams didn't decide to forcefeed us information the way Lucas started doing in the prequels, but I sort of wonder if he went too far in the other direction by not giving enough. This alternative is definitely better than saying too much though.

The main character of the story in the original trilogy was Luke, there was no question about that. By sharing time for the screen between 4 different mains, I felt like some of the characters didn't feel that fleshed out. I can buy that Rey has the savvy to be the tinkerer she is, but her getting powers out of nowhere seemed somewhat random to me. Unless her being so good at what she does is a part of being Force-sensitive and I just didn't put two and two together? The awakening Snoke referred to was in reference to her, I guess. I was also sort of confused about her family leaving her on Jakku and her waiting for them. Still, she's a strong lead and I particularly enjoyed her scenes with Finn and how they sort of subverted the "damsel in distress" thing without being hamfisted or corny.

Then there is Finn, which sort of seems out of place as someone with a crisis of conscious. I don't have an issue with that, but his "persona" seemed somewhat odd for someone who had been a part of The First Order since he was a child. We didn't see anyone similar to that within the organization. I get that he was just a grunt, but I'm not sure. I get the feeling that someone like that would have had more edge and would have had less humor to him. I still enjoyed him as a character though, I would have just liked him being a bit more fleshed-out.

No real issue with Poe I guess, just would like more from him. You could definitely buy that this guy was an ace.

I honestly though Kylo Ren was the strongest character of the 4, with the most depth to him. But again, sort of suffers from the "thin" thing. We're told who he is and why he is who he is, but we're barely shown why. I have a feeling we'll be getting more of that. I also loved the Vader-worship thing going on...audiences are expecting him to be some evil monster without the mask on, but he's just a boy really. That direction was really interesting, and made something like Hayden Christianson's performance in the prequels even more of a joke.

And I hope that's the case for all 4 of these characters in the next movie. I'm sure some people back in 1977 had similar thoughts after seeing A New Hope, as the series didn't really start off very forthcoming and was never an in-depth character-study type of series in the first place.

 

[M3J]

Re: Star Wars - The Thread

Should I go and see the movie? I've heard mixed reviews so far, and I got spoiled a bit, so I know a tiny bit of what happens, but I'm not 100% sold on whether I should see it yet.

Yes you should.

Spoiler

With few problems here and there, I enjoyed the movie. Didn't think there was anything wrong with how the Force helped Rey beat an injured Ren. I mean, once Luke relaxed and used the Force, he was able to block the training droid's shots and was able to hit the Death Star's core successfully. Why can't the same help Rey here? If it did come to a battle of the Force though, I'd be even more wary, but it was a lightsaber duel. Vader eventually overpowered Luke by using the Force to pull objects out and throw it at Luke, something Luke didn't know how to deal with. Prior to that Luke and Vader were even enough that Vader was impressed, and come Episode VI, Luke wasn't at a disadvantage throughout the fight, was he?

Though, I don't appreciate how Finn was able to give Ren some challenge even though Ren was hurt. Should take more than that. what's interesting though is wondering whether Rey would have killed Ren or not. Maybe that'll be an issue brought up later.... I hope. I hope she's not Luke's daughter though, cuz that'd be explaining about her mom and how Luke met her. It'd just feel weird given we never saw it.

Good Christ though, I do need to watch the first six Star Wars. Few stuff that I don't remember. For shame. FOR SHAME

 

[xi0]

I think the point of Finn being able to go toe-to-toe with Ren for a while was that he might be Force-sensitive as well, just not at the level that Rey is. The thing is, Finn was a Stormtrooper, so he has combat training. And judging by the Stormtrooper Finn fought with the lightsaber, he probably had anti-jedi training as well. Add in the fact that Ren was pretty badly injured.

 

[M3J]

I don't know if he's Force sensitive, he hasn't given any indication of it, but I suppose the anti-Jedi training makes sense... especially since we saw a stormtrooper fight using a weapon that could handle lightsabers.

 

[Doraku]

Re: Star Wars - The Thread

Then there is Finn, which sort of seems out of place as someone with a crisis of conscious. I don't have an issue with that, but his "persona" seemed somewhat odd for someone who had been a part of The First Order since he was a child. We didn't see anyone similar to that within the organization. I get that he was just a grunt, but I'm not sure. I get the feeling that someone like that would have had more edge and would have had less humor to him. I still enjoyed him as a character though, I would have just liked him being a bit more fleshed-out.

I think my problem with Finn has to do with his 'conflicting' personalities; during the first few minutes, he was being compassionate about people who were massacred by the Stormtroppers, yet he had no trouble killing his ex-colleagues in the later part of the movie. So yeah, I believe that his comedic demeanor is slightly puzzling and perhaps, inconsistent. But to be fair, some of the humors in Force Awakens are also wincers and out of place.

Did you have any issue with the movie pacing? there were moments when I expected the movie to end, but it kept going for longer than what I had predicted. I wasn't bored though, I just felt that the pacing can be choppy at times.

 

[M3J]

I hope the franchise doesn't go the Marvel route and include more shitty humor.

 

[xi0]

I think my problem with Finn has to do with his 'conflicting' personalities; during the first few minutes, he was being compassionate about people who were massacred by the Stormtroppers, yet he had no trouble killing his ex-colleagues in the later part of the movie. So yeah, I believe that his comedic demeanor is slightly puzzling and perhaps, inconsistent. But to be fair, some of the humors in Force Awakens are also wincers and out of place.

Did you have any issue with the movie pacing? there were moments when I expected the movie to end, but it kept going for longer than what I had predicted. I wasn't bored though, I just felt that the pacing can be choppy at times.

I didn't have moments like that, but the only issue I had with the pacing is I could have used more slow moments to develop the characters. The pace is rather rapid, which isn't a bad thing.

 

[kkck]

Honestly, my only real disappointment about the movie is that luke never did start the jedi order. I mean, he kinda did and it got destroyed but still, but it seems like he sort of just quit. I wish we could have seen a fully functional jedi order in a movie which made a shred of sense. I guess we might see some development in this area depending on where the next movie starts and when the following starts. So far it seems like between each movie so far there are at least several years between films. So we can reasonably expect the next film to not start where this one finished and instead take place somewhere from a few months to a few years from now. In context rey is insanely talented, even a few months worth of training could be enough to finish most of her training. So perhaps we can expect some serious jedi action by the end of the next movie and for the last one. There is also the knights of ren whom I would expect to get more action in the future and to be force users.

 

[Jammin]

There are few things greater than the fact that, for the first time in a long time, I can think about the last Star Wars movie I saw and not feel some form of regret.

I'm sure I could think up something about it I'd wish was different but I've gone to see it twice in the last week with different people and each time and both times everyone came out excited and with huge smiles on their faces. The fact that it was able to do that is so awesome.

 

[YumaKuga]

Honestly, my only real disappointment about the movie is that luke never did start the jedi order. I mean, he kinda did and it got destroyed but still, but it seems like he sort of just quit. I wish we could have seen a fully functional jedi order in a movie which made a shred of sense. I guess we might see some development in this area depending on where the next movie starts and when the following starts. So far it seems like between each movie so far there are at least several years between films. So we can reasonably expect the next film to not start where this one finished and instead take place somewhere from a few months to a few years from now. In context rey is insanely talented, even a few months worth of training could be enough to finish most of her training. So perhaps we can expect some serious jedi action by the end of the next movie and for the last one. There is also the knights of ren whom I would expect to get more action in the future and to be force users.

Me and my Dad were pretty disappointed by the lack thereof the Jedi Order. Also many MANY hard core fans since the 70's hate it. I thought it was okay, but having a dude who was a stormtrooper suddenly be a badass trained Jedi in no time seems a bit weird. Sure Luke was getting good im Empire Strikes Back, but he still got his hand cut off

 

[kkck]

Me and my Dad were pretty disappointed by the lack thereof the Jedi Order. Also many MANY hard core fans since the 70's hate it. I thought it was okay, but having a dude who was a stormtrooper suddenly be a badass trained Jedi in no time seems a bit weird. Sure Luke was getting good im Empire Strikes Back, but he still got his hand cut off

It is definitely weird to see a stormtropper be badadd lol. But to be fair stormtroppers in the film were generally presented as competent fighters for the most part. And finn did put up a fight but we have to consider kylo had recently taken a shot to his stomach from chewbaca's crossbowbazooka. So you have a wounded wannabe sith agains a perfectly healthy former stormtropper during a time when stormtroppers were presented as more than competent fighters. At least seeing the stormtropper finn fought with the lightsaber it does seem like stormtroppers are trained in a decent bit of physical combat.

 

[M3J]

Me and my Dad were pretty disappointed by the lack thereof the Jedi Order. Also many MANY hard core fans since the 70's hate it. I thought it was okay, but having a dude who was a stormtrooper suddenly be a badass trained Jedi in no time seems a bit weird. Sure Luke was getting good im Empire Strikes Back, but he still got his hand cut off

Seems like some of the stormtroopers received training in weapon combat. The stormtrooper Finn fought with using a lightsaber used his own weapon to counter lightsabers, so it's not shocking that Finn is adequate. not to mention, he was raised as a stormtrooper since he was very little, no?

Which does kind of make his personality weird. Aren't most stormtroopers uniform in personality? Finn shouldn't have had the personality that he did or the guilt that he felt, and although the Jedi were raised and trained similarly since birth, they were allowed to be their own person and develop. But then, those two stormtroopers did retreat when Ren was raging.

It is definitely weird to see a stormtropper be badadd lol. But to be fair stormtroppers in the film were generally presented as competent fighters for the most part. And finn did put up a fight but we have to consider kylo had recently taken a shot to his stomach from chewbaca's crossbowbazooka. So you have a wounded wannabe sith agains a perfectly healthy former stormtropper during a time when stormtroppers were presented as more than competent fighters. At least seeing the stormtropper finn fought with the lightsaber it does seem like stormtroppers are trained in a decent bit of physical combat.

True. Plus, where Vader used the Force to hurl objects, Ren was just purely fighting with his lightsaber.

 

[Akainu]

Didn't like it. I'm not sure I can lay a finger on it as of yet. Some are just really minor details that end up irritating me (C3-PO's dub, stopping laser beams). Others I better not dive into as it would start to put into question pretty much all of Star Wars (we are family *sings*).

To pick up some things though:
Yes, there was a lack of Jedi order in this movie, but it isn't for want of trying. It's actually the very story of the movie at hand that little emo-boy popped the party and uncle Luke felt so guilty he had to hide somewhere, leaving clues with an old man, and curiously the other part in R2-D2 and the imperial archives? Anyway, Jedi order - I'm really happy about that tbh, this way it's ambigous with every force character we see. Having hundreds of little Jedi roaming around would be a too imbalanced force yet again.

Stormtroopers finally getting some recognition was fine. Even that one guy with the baton was awesome. The lightsaber resistant baton itself... eh. But then we have the shiny commander lookig all badass and her role amounts to... nothing. They didn't need her for the identification of FN2387 since Kylo later made that connection to the trooper on the ground (plus point for knowing all his minions). And later she was turning down the shields without putting up much of a fight or adding anything, consequently she's gone just as fast. Actually her role is that of droid. Accessing a terminal.

The comedy... oh the comedy. How often the audience laughed. And yet it felt so forced how each of the characters got some witty comment here or there to lighten up the mood. Might be a sign of the time we live in more than anything, but I could do with less of that.
Which brings me to one other point, the age of the cast/characters. Previously, we had generals/admirals/whateverals being seasoned men presumably with battle experience. This time, most of the staff running THE most powerful snowball in the SW galaxy are... just out of university? If not Highschool. Maybe I just didn't see it, but other than Snoke no one looked like they could have had any experience from the time of the empire. Either way, fitting environment for teenage, angsty, disney comedy.

I guess Starkiller itself being implausible, if not just for the stage of the last fight as the atmosphere wouldn't survive the sun-sucking, has been chewed through enough.

So, prediction time: I don't think Rey is related to anyone (*hopes*), but she could have been part of Luke's first try to set up an order and then hidden away on Jakku. Or whoever brought her there was too late, yet didn't want to keep her. Kylo naturally survived, because finding people on a planet/base turning into a sun is easy and he will totally finish his training of... Ren? Which means we have both sides beafing up, question is though on-screen, or off-screen. The easy and obvious solution of a force baby between the two to end all this will hopefully be passed on.

Before anyone asks, it's still a good movie that manages to pick up the legacy, spin it in its own way and deliver some hours of fun. The music and effects are great, the pictures fantastic even.

 

[xi0]

Before anyone asks, it's still a good movie that manages to pick up the legacy, spin it in its own way and deliver some hours of fun. The music and effects are great, the pictures fantastic even.

Then what is there to dislike about it? I understand being nitpicky though, had some of the same feelings.

 

[Jammin]

Doesn't this put it all in perspective though?


That was the last time we saw Star Wars before this. I could have done with more Jedi stuff but at the end of the day I can't help but love The Force Awakens for what it wasn't....garbage. Which is what the prequels became. They were so freakin' bad.

 

[xi0]

If you take out the fact that they basically shoehorned fanservice into episode 3 with no regard to anyone new to the series who might wish to watch them chronologically....that was one of the few scenes in the only prequel that sort of "worked" as a movie. Still pales in comparison to anything in the original or TFA though.

 

[Akainu]

Then what is there to dislike about it? I understand being nitpicky though, had some of the same feelings.

Plot points, cast, acting. I guess I got it all covered before actually. Will have to watch it another few times though to be completely fair, as with previous movies.
I don't have to like every good movie. Had the same problem with Gravity. Neither was drawing me in enough to make me forget I was watching a movie. And with Star Wars and the hypemachine, it's probably a lot of disappointment playing into it in this case. Biased, nitpicky, guess they both fit.

 

[xi0]

Plot points, cast, acting. I guess I got it all covered before actually. Will have to watch it another few times though to be completely fair, as with previous movies.
I don't have to like every good movie. Had the same problem with Gravity. Neither was drawing me in enough to make me forget I was watching a movie. And with Star Wars and the hypemachine, it's probably a lot of disappointment playing into it in this case. Biased, nitpicky, guess they both fit.

Yeah, but Gravity is based in reality. Star Wars was always more Space Fantasy than Science Fiction.

I mean, I understand what you mean though. You can respect a movie and recognize quality but not have it grab you. I also understand the side-effects of hype, but I feel like it mostly lived up to it. Maybe it's having standards set lower due to the prequels, but hey, not like that's their fault.