TV The Walking Dead

[gnut]

Kinda hyped myself now that it's almost upon us xD

 

[**Silver**]

the fear of the walking dead is better than the original series

 

[xi0]

I don't watch the spinoff because I never had much interest. In fact, I tend to view spinoffs of series currently airing as cash-grabs. Merely trying to capitalize on popularity to sell more advertising, instead of telling a compelling story. It doesn't really help that I've heard mostly negative things about it too.

But with that being said, this premiere seemed rather weak to me. I can appreciate non-linear storytelling when it's done well. In fact, TWD has done it well in the past. But this episode was really all over the place for me. Plus they kind of overdid it with too much of the saccharine "uplifting" speeches.

The point of this series at this point in time is to tell the struggle between two groups. Sure, Negan is the villain and has done horrible things. But so has Rick and the survivors. If the show had begun by starting off following Negan instead of Rick, he'd be the hero of his own story. Of course, the season could eventually build to this sort of juxtaposition, but as a standalone episode this one felt rather awkward and uninspiring overall.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 11, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 23, 2017 ---

So the leaks last week were mostly true...

Spoiler

Pretty sure this decision will kill the show. And the Hollywood Reporter article seems to imply that this was Scott Gimple's decision, and not Chandler Riggs deciding to leave the show to attend college (as some have speculated over). It still would have sucked and would have been awful for the show and it's future, but it'd at least be understandable...

No clue how the show will recover from this honestly. Carl basically becomes the main character after this arc. Gimple doing this is just baffling to me.

 

[Belserion]

So the leaks last week were mostly true...

Spoiler

Pretty sure this decision will kill the show. And the Hollywood Reporter article seems to imply that this was Scott Gimple's decision, and not Chandler Riggs deciding to leave the show to attend college (as some have speculated over). It still would have sucked and would have been awful for the show and it's future, but it'd at least be understandable...

No clue how the show will recover from this honestly. Carl basically becomes the main character after this arc. Gimple doing this is just baffling to me.

It definitely worked for shock value, especially for people like me who go in blind, no spoilers and no prior comic knowledge, but the direction after this is pretty much unknown. I can't see how it works going forward. I saw no plot value in what they did. It's like a jump scare while watching a horror movie. Momentarily exciting but overall pointless.

 

[Mononoke]

- Based on a lot of people's reactions, this was definitely a bad decision on their part.
- Some people are saying it was Rigg's decision to leave due to college when instead it was completely Scott Gimple's choice as Chandler even stated it was not his doing and was looking forward to portraying Carl in future plot lines which happened in the comics and therefore did not expect to be killed off.

- For me personally I have never been a huge fan of Carl as a character but I have progressively liked him more over the series, but do I see this working out for the series overall? No. While I am interested in what direction they will go when the series returns at the same time I am anxious and I do believe they have gone around this the complete wrong way.
I mean out of all the things that could kill him...this is what they went with? Does it have the shock factor? Yes and for a mid-season finale works but seriously, he survived getting shot in the eye...this is just a crappy way to go out.

 

[Belserion]

- For me personally I have never been a huge fan of Carl as a character but I have progressively liked him more over the series, but do I see this working out for the series overall? No. While I am interested in what direction they will go when the series returns at the same time I am anxious and I do believe they have gone around this the complete wrong way.
I mean out of all the things that could kill him...this is what they went with? Does it have the shock factor? Yes and for a mid-season finale works but seriously, he survived getting shot in the eye...this is just a crappy way to go out.

I agree. He was never my favorite but I understood his value, especially to Rick's mentality. Now he's gone, well almost, and we still have guys like Gabriel and Eugene and Aaron taking up screen time. I would have even sacrificed Jesus because he's been annoying this season. None of those losses would have strongly impacted the plot, yet we know them well enough that we would feel some regret at their deaths. That traitor Eugene could have died while redeeming himself and I would have understood. This is just bad.

 

[Mononoke]

I agree. He was never my favorite but I understood his value, especially to Rick's mentality. Now he's gone, well almost, and we still have guys like Gabriel and Eugene and Aaron taking up screen time. I would have even sacrificed Jesus because he's been annoying this season. None of those losses would have strongly impacted the plot, yet we know them well enough that we would feel some regret at their deaths. That traitor Eugene could have died while redeeming himself and I would have understood. This is just bad.

The fact that Eugene is still even alive ffs. Negan should of just killed him already, or Dwight.
Whenever something bad has happened to Carl in the past Rick has always suffered badly mentally, heck even when Lori died all the way back he went mentally unstable and now that Carl is dead?
I just do not see how they can recover from this or what use this has plot wise for the story....

 

[xi0]

Found this on reddit as an example of the ridiculousness in deciding that Carl is going to be a "moral compass" of sorts for Rick. Nevermind that talking about this kind of thing sort of spoils the plot going forward a bit (). But yeah, the Carl we have in the show right now isn't really the Carl from the comics. You could say that about a lot of characters though, I guess. But thus far, they had been faithful to Carl specifically, whether you liked Chandler Rigg's portrayal or not is another topic, I guess.

I sort of have to wonder who's going to be getting some of his plotlines though, if they keep the next arc mostly intact. I guess someone like Enid could work, maybe Tara... I sort of shudder at the thought of it being Daryl. But in any of those choices, it's vastly inferior compared to Carl. What sucks even more is that Gimple seemed to have lifted this death from a pretty huge recent death in the comics - a audience fakeout where someone gets bit but you don't realize it for an issue or two, then a long, emotional death etc. The fact that he would take inspiration there and use it to butcher the existing storyline makes it sting even more.

 

[gnut]

Found this on reddit as an example of the ridiculousness in deciding that Carl is going to be a "moral compass" of sorts for Rick. Nevermind that talking about this kind of thing sort of spoils the plot going forward a bit (). But yeah, the Carl we have in the show right now isn't really the Carl from the comics. You could say that about a lot of characters though, I guess. But thus far, they had been faithful to Carl specifically, whether you liked Chandler Rigg's portrayal or not is another topic, I guess.

I sort of have to wonder who's going to be getting some of his plotlines though, if they keep the next arc mostly intact. I guess someone like Enid could work, maybe Tara... I sort of shudder at the thought of it being Daryl. But in any of those choices, it's vastly inferior compared to Carl. What sucks even more is that Gimple seemed to have lifted this death from a pretty huge recent death in the comics - a audience fakeout where someone gets bit but you don't realize it for an issue or two, then a long, emotional death etc. The fact that he would take inspiration there and use it to butcher the existing storyline makes it sting even more.

Tbh....im thinking its gonna go to the kid following Carol....
Plus they introduce this new baby Grace...idk where that might lead considering Maggie is prego but overlooking Grace...hmmm...miscarriage much x/
Then we have Judith maybe Shane's so possibility they go Michonne has a baby route...
Idk....its alotta ways they could go with new generations...
But...i say Negan in the comics may not be the same...i think they are really pushing for next arc (Whisperers)


Also....to Eugene haters.
He gotta smash Rosita 1st before he dies...give her a baby too

 

[xi0]

Tbh....im thinking its gonna go to the kid following Carol....
Plus they introduce this new baby Grace...idk where that might lead considering Maggie is prego but overlooking Grace...hmmm...miscarriage much x/
Then we have Judith maybe Shane's so possibility they go Michonne has a baby route...
Idk....its alotta ways they could go with new generations...
But...i say Negan in the comics may not be the same...i think they are really pushing for next arc (Whisperers)

The brother of the kid that got killed? Seems way too minor of a character, plus he has no relationship with Negan.

Grace (if she's relevant in the future) and Judith will be way too young for any of that to happen. They'd have to increase the size of the timeskip considerably, and then we'd have no real attachment to either of them as characters, so it wouldn't work either IMO.

Pushing for the next arc how? All indications point to them keeping the same conclusion to this arc tbh.

Also....to Eugene haters.
He gotta smash Rosita 1st before he dies...give her a baby too

Eugene seems asexual in the show for whatever reason, so I sort of doubt that ever happening. Might be more likely that it'll be Rosita and Dwight that get together, with them already laying some groundwork there. There's a Tara in the comics that Dwight is attached to that resembles the butch Savior lieutenant a bit, but it doesn't seem like she's being positioned as the same character. If any of the lieutenants turn against Negan other than Dwight, it'd probably be Gavin.

 

[Lawl Po Bia]

well, i am atleast happy for chandler for finally getting rid of that haircut curse. this season was so subpar, dont even have anything to say. could any comic readers tell me what villain comes after negan?

 

[xi0]

well, i am atleast happy for chandler for finally getting rid of that haircut curse. this season was so subpar, dont even have anything to say. could any comic readers tell me what villain comes after negan?

They're called The Whisperers

 

[Eigengrau]

They're called The Whisperers

And apparently (spoilers?) this rather famous actress is going to play their leader:

Spoiler

Maria Bello

First time posting here btw.

I'm up to date with the comics (new chapter drops today!) and it's my first time posting here.

What they did to Carl's character was disgusting, I was so looking forward to what was ahead for him... truly this must be one of the worst things to have happened on the show, story-wise.

Anyway, I've seen the latest 2 eps and while I can kinda get behind what they are doing, the execution still leaves a lot to be desired. Thankfully Gimple was fired and they have a new showrunner, which I believe is the person that directed the last episode.

 

[xi0]

And apparently (spoilers?) this rather famous actress is going to play their leader:

Spoiler

Maria Bello

First time posting here btw.

I'm up to date with the comics (new chapter drops today!) and it's my first time posting here.

What they did to Carl's character was disgusting, I was so looking forward to what was ahead for him... truly this must be one of the worst things to have happened on the show, story-wise.

Anyway, I've seen the latest 2 eps and while I can kinda get behind what they are doing, the execution still leaves a lot to be desired. Thankfully Gimple was fired and they have a new showrunner, which I believe is the person that directed the last episode.

Pretty sure that was speculation though, based on her being cast late (similar to what happened when they cast Jeffrey Dean Morgan late in season 6). Unless Spoiling Dead knows something I'm not aware of, that is. Hopefully it'll be that and not Jadis becoming Alpha. That arc works way better if Alpha isn't a known person.

Carl's character in the show was always inferior to what he was in the comic though, and he was always different too. Sure, Carl murdered people in the show, but he was way closer to Dale in personality than he ever was to Shane. The comic makes a point of Carl being a lot more dark of a personality. I was against them killing him off in the show because of what it might mean for the next arc, not so much about me missing Chandler Riggs or anything.

Gimple wasn't fired though, he was promoted. But yeah, new showrunner, I guess. Gimple still oversees both shows though. The show just suffers from really sub-par writing lately. There's just a lot of weird editing, terrible dialogue, and characters making really stupid decisions, etc.

 

[Eigengrau]

Pretty sure that was speculation though, based on her being cast late (similar to what happened when they cast Jeffrey Dean Morgan late in season 6). Unless Spoiling Dead knows something I'm not aware of, that is. Hopefully it'll be that and not Jadis becoming Alpha. That arc works way better if Alpha isn't a known person.

Yeah, I also worry about them using Jadis for the role of Alpha, but personally I don't think that makes any sense. You can't just build up the Whisperers in a couple of years - provided that the show will also undergo a timeskip at some point - because they're supposed to have been around for a while, right? I think it would be really dumb for the Whisperers to come to be only after what happened in the last episode. Maybe Jadis could join the Whisperers but even then I don't see what she would be bringing to the table.

Still, I am fairly positive that they wouldn't be bringing an actress of her caliber to play a role other than a primary one, and the way I see it it can only be Alpha.

Carl's character in the show was always inferior to what he was in the comic though, and he was always different too. Sure, Carl murdered people in the show, but he was way closer to Dale in personality than he ever was to Shane. The comic makes a point of Carl being a lot more dark of a personality. I was against them killing him off in the show because of what it might mean for the next arc, not so much about me missing Chandler Riggs or anything.

I never particularly disliked Carl. I mean, it's way easier to hate a child actor than it is to hate a child character from a comic book, I get that, but personally I think that Carl had gotten "there" and was clearly showing signs of becoming a better actor. During his whole stand-off with Negan in 8x08 I was like "oh shit, looking gud for what's coming ahead", and then nope.

Personally, I hated the casting choice for Andrea and Lori. Those actresses sucked in almost everything I've seen them in.

Gimple wasn't fired though, he was promoted. But yeah, new showrunner, I guess. Gimple still oversees both shows though. The show just suffers from really sub-par writing lately. There's just a lot of weird editing, terrible dialogue, and characters making really stupid decisions, etc.

Yes, "promoted" .
But yeah I know he still holds some power over the storyline I believe.
Still, to tell Chandler "yeah yeah, sure, you'll be around for another 3 years at least", let him buy a house, and then days later say "lol nvm, u ded" is just... bruh.

 

[xi0]

Yeah, I also worry about them using Jadis for the role of Alpha, but personally I don't think that makes any sense. You can't just build up the Whisperers in a couple of years - provided that the show will also undergo a timeskip at some point - because they're supposed to have been around for a while, right? I think it would be really dumb for the Whisperers to come to be only after what happened in the last episode. Maybe Jadis could join the Whisperers but even then I don't see what she would be bringing to the table.

Still, I am fairly positive that they wouldn't be bringing an actress of her caliber to play a role other than a primary one, and the way I see it it can only be Alpha.

You'd think so, but then they made the decision to add this Junkyard group in the first place. Granted, their lifestyle isn't as extreme as The Whisperers, but they're still quite a bit different from all of the other groups. But I guess logic doesn't have to work perfectly for the show's writing.

I agree there, but was just saying it could be a setup in some way. Though I don't think what happened with Jadis and her people would push her towards that. But who knows, they could change things up there.

I never particularly disliked Carl. I mean, it's way easier to hate a child actor than it is to hate a child character from a comic book, I get that, but personally I think that Carl had gotten "there" and was clearly showing signs of becoming a better actor. During his whole stand-off with Negan in 8x08 I was like "oh shit, looking gud for what's coming ahead", and then nope.

Personally, I hated the casting choice for Andrea and Lori. Those actresses sucked in almost everything I've seen them in.

I didn't dislike Carl or Chandler. They just didn't get the perfect kid actor for it. It might have been impossible, all things considered. Yeah, he definitely grew into the role more. But this season when he started acting a bit more "soft" I felt like the writing was failing the character and the actor. But little did I know they were planning to off him...

Yes, "promoted" .
But yeah I know he still holds some power over the storyline I believe.
Still, to tell Chandler "yeah yeah, sure, you'll be around for another 3 years at least", let him buy a house, and then days later say "lol nvm, u ded" is just... bruh.

There's a theory that it was a budget choice. A lot of actors contracts are ending after this season, and they felt they'd rather pay Lauren Cohen than Chandler, or something like that. Or they might end up being without both of them... tough to say now. AMC is notoriously cheap with actor salaries. But if ratings continue to go down for the rest of the season, they might not have a choice.

 

[Eigengrau]

I agree there, but was just saying it could be a setup in some way. Though I don't think what happened with Jadis and her people would push her towards that. But who knows, they could change things up there.

I really hope not. Don't get me wrong, Jadis (or rather, the actress herself) has a very particular kind of beauty and charm... but pls give me Maria Bello with a shaved head

There's a theory that it was a budget choice. A lot of actors contracts are ending after this season, and they felt they'd rather pay Lauren Cohen than Chandler, or something like that. Or they might end up being without both of them... tough to say now. AMC is notoriously cheap with actor salaries. But if ratings continue to go down for the rest of the season, they might not have a choice.

Pffft, tell me about it. No wonder Robert Kirkman himself is but one among many producers currently suing AMC, and Kirkman is (eventually) leaving for Amazon. No idea if AMC actually owns the lifetime rights to TWD (probably, maybe), otherwise TWD could eventually move to Amazon which would be for the best.

They stipulate that potential damages could reach 1 fucking billion dollars, and that's one of the things that gets me pissed off every single season: for a show such as TWD, they could AND should actually invest some decent money in it. There's absolutely no reason not to do so, and yet every single season you get fucking atrocious CGI like this gem

for absolutely no reason.

Same thing with all the shootouts, it is so horrifyingly painful to see bullets hit cars and whatnot and be able to tell that those are all CGI'ed. A show such as the walking dead CAN afford decent practical and cgi effects, and yet it is what it is. Is it cheaper and quicker to just do that in post? Sure, but it looks like shit and doesn't feel or look real at all.

Say what you want about Season 2, but a while ago ended up rewatching a bunch of scenes from S1 and S2, and holy shit the quality difference is just astounding.

So yeah, it irks me. I don't consider TWD to be the best show ever or anything like that, but if they got their heads out of their asses it could be something else entirely, but of course it all comes down to them greedy fucks at the top.

Even that stunt actor that died a few months ago... it's just fucking stupid and a complete disregard towards human decency. For a show such as TWD that has come this far and already has a next season greenlit, they shouldn't be at all concerned with how much money they can save here and there. It's completely ridiculous.

AMC probably owns the rights, not to mention that it would probably be a contract nightmare as well for all the actors involved, but personally I'd wish for TWD to eventually move to Amazon and receive the "netflix treatment" where you get longer episodes (although TWD does have a tendency nowadays to have longer episodes already), movie-like quality plus (maybe?) all episodes being released at once which would perhaps make the whole thing better overall.

 

[xi0]

Same thing with all the shootouts, it is so horrifyingly painful to see bullets hit cars and whatnot and be able to tell that those are all CGI'ed. A show such as the walking dead CAN afford decent practical and cgi effects, and yet it is what it is. Is it cheaper and quicker to just do that in post? Sure, but it looks like shit and doesn't feel or look real at all.

Oh god... the shootouts . Nothing is more cringey than watching people half-assedly fire fully automatic for 5 minutes straight, no reloading, no recoil, no muzzle flashes. Not to mention that .50 caliber gun that fired right into the engine block of the truck Rick was driving and took it like nothing happened. The shootouts are really the one low-spot as far as practical effects go for the show. Everything else is generally really well done. Probably to the credit of Nicotero.

Say what you want about Season 2, but a while ago ended up rewatching a bunch of scenes from S1 and S2, and holy shit the quality difference is just astounding.

It's because the writing and directing was just of a better quality. And I'm one of the people who liked Season 2. Never really got the criticisms, aside from people who only watch the show for gore. Seasons 3-5 were up there too.

(although TWD does have a tendency nowadays to have longer episodes already), movie-like quality plus (maybe?)

Not unless the writing improves. The episodes are only longer so they can sell more advertising. Most of the time it doesn't do any favors to the show's quality.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 11, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 11, 2018 ---

Anyone anticipating anything for the finale this Sunday? I really don't want to be disappointed with how this arc concludes, but I'm not sure I have much hope. I'd be pretty much okay with anything they do from a bodycount standpoint, as long as

Spoiler: Comic spoilers

Dwight and Negan survive.

. I don't really care about the survivors honestly. They could probably kill Eugene and I wouldn't care either.

 

[Eigengrau]

Anyone anticipating anything for the finale this Sunday? I really don't want to be disappointed with how this arc concludes, but I'm not sure I have much hope. I'd be pretty much okay with anything they do from a bodycount standpoint, as long as

Spoiler: Comic spoilers

Dwight and Negan survive.

.

I don't really care about the survivors honestly. They could probably kill Eugene and I wouldn't care either

I think the second half of this season was better (thanks to some directorial changes) although every episode managed to have some pretty bad scenes, like that one where Negan "somehow" managed to get a hold of a flare and a gun even though he was clearly bound and couldn't move freely...

Anyway, regarding the finale, I've seen some articles where the people in charge have stated that the finale will feel more like a "series finale" than any other so far, as in an "ending to the first 8 seasons of TWD", as opposed to a simple ending to this season.

Considering what comes after in the storyline, that doesn't surprise me too much, although no one can say for sure whether they're headed that way or not.

After after what, 2 seasons now? Yeah, it would be dumb to get rid of Negan permanently, that's probably not gonna happen.

Eugene is a really strange case though. I have no fucking idea what they're trying to do with his character since his plotline is much different in the comics.

Anyway, I don't watch previews or anything, but it seems pretty obvious that Oceanside will come to their rescue and help turn the tables, which will be super convenient to them...

And what the hell was that bit with Aaron? That guy is just by himself in the woods for days now, sleeping and whatnot like that in the open, yet he somehow wasn't bitten or anything?

And when 5 or so walkers come by he easily takes care of them?

And that whole bit when people at the Hilltop were turning into zombies... bruh, one of them fell down the whole flight of stairs yet no one woke up...?

TWD has its moments (Rick and Morgan killing those Saviors was really unexpected for me, although I should've seen it coming) but when it's bad, it's bad.

 

[xi0]

I think the second half of this season was better (thanks to some directorial changes) although every episode managed to have some pretty bad scenes, like that one where Negan "somehow" managed to get a hold of a flare and a gun even though he was clearly bound and couldn't move freely...

Anyway, regarding the finale, I've seen some articles where the people in charge have stated that the finale will feel more like a "series finale" than any other so far, as in an "ending to the first 8 seasons of TWD", as opposed to a simple ending to this season.

Considering what comes after in the storyline, that doesn't surprise me too much, although no one can say for sure whether they're headed that way or not.

After after what, 2 seasons now? Yeah, it would be dumb to get rid of Negan permanently, that's probably not gonna happen.

Eugene is a really strange case though. I have no fucking idea what they're trying to do with his character since his plotline is much different in the comics.

Anyway, I don't watch previews or anything, but it seems pretty obvious that Oceanside will come to their rescue and help turn the tables, which will be super convenient to them...

And what the hell was that bit with Aaron? That guy is just by himself in the woods for days now, sleeping and whatnot like that in the open, yet he somehow wasn't bitten or anything?

And when 5 or so walkers come by he easily takes care of them?

And that whole bit when people at the Hilltop were turning into zombies... bruh, one of them fell down the whole flight of stairs yet no one woke up...?

TWD has its moments (Rick and Morgan killing those Saviors was really unexpected for me, although I should've seen it coming) but when it's bad, it's bad.

The "every episode has a shitty part" thing seems like it has been going on since the group came to Alexandria. Whoever is the main dialogue writer (if that even exists) is really inconsistent, if not inept. In the brief moments when we have some levity and not every conversation has the weight of the world on it, the dialogue is fine.

Yeah, I've seen those headlines too. Seems like just stuff for non-readers to be puzzled over. I think most readers know what kind of stuff is on the way and what to expect. Not that there won't be some new wrinkles thrown in, they always do that (for better or worse). I mean, we already know it's going to be quite different because of the absence of Carl and the presence of Daryl. With that woman Georgie being "randomly" included this season, the mystery of Jadis and the helicopter, and who most people assume Maria Bello was cast to play... I think it might be a safe bet that we could get Whisperer arc and the New World Order arc combined in some fashion. Especially if no one takes Carl's place in the Whisperer storyline. There isn't a huge amount of meat there IMO. Not that I'd want something like this, or like the idea of the show "speeding" things up in effect, at least.

As far as Negan goes... I like JDM's portrayal of him for the most part, but I'm not yet sold on him playing a "softer" version of Negan yet. The maniacal streak he has works quite well for the most part, even though I think the comedic side is a bit one-note and doesn't really capture the youthful exuberance that comic Negan has. Of course I think he'll be able to pull it off with the gravitas he has, but the dialogue.... I'll also be pretty disappointed if they don't use "Fuck" in some fashion... then all those articles about them getting ok'd to do it and doing it in the spinoff as well...

Yeah the Aaron plotline just exists as a bridge... and it's fucking flimsy one too. The survivors already took all of their weapons because they wouldn't ally themselves, what else can they really give? lol Not to mention that their leader died because of the group as well. It's also quite strange that Aaron is in this role and not Tara.

Forget him taking out 5 walkers, how about him apparently kicking one in the head to kill it? That's kinda new...

That Rick and Morgan thing... the juxtaposition of that and Morgan telling Rick he helped him because of Duane, with Rick having just lost Carl. That's probably the best piece of writing/performance that has happened all season. Maybe even in the last two seasons.

The Carl letters to Rick and especially Negan were rather underwhelming. Well, I guess more so the latter. Negan going around acting like Rick caused this is pretty revisionist's history. Carl could have been much more convincing with his words.