Round of 16 Wahl Icht vs Erza Scarlet

Mirage · Jun 1, 2016

Holt said:
She can Requip in an instant, she just needs it when Wahl flies and she can switch to another one.

Wahl isn't going to fly around all day, especially if Erza requips to a suitable armor to evade. Erza will use Nakagami when needed. She doesn't need it on for the entire fight.

He does and I already mentioned that earlier that he'd dominate majority of the fight. What weakness is that exactly? It's not like Wahl's weakness magic creates one, saying he can see her weakness doesn't mean much here. Erza is just about the most versatile Mage so locating weakness that'll be a game changer is highly unlikely.

What? My point here is that Wahl can fly and rain attacks down while Erza won't be able to do anything except pretty much stand there. As stated before, Black Wing doesn't have impressive feats to take down someone like Wahl.

So she either gets beat by being barraged with attacks from above, or she gets beat up close (if she decides to use Black Wing) due to Wahl's superior combat speed.

Does Black Wing even grant flight anyway? I've never seen Erza straight up fly in any of her armors ever, throughout the entire series.

Of course his weakness identifier means something. It means that he'll stay in the air and spam attacks until she's done. That's the quickest and most efficient way for him to end the match.

Wahl was keeping up with Laxus, who is >> Erza.

Nemispelled · Jun 1, 2016

BluePegasus said:
I don't think so. Wahl never showed that his speed is higher than Erza's. You shouldn't forget her Flight Armor, she'll outclass Wahl's speed once she uses it without any doubt.

Even though I don't want to believe it, it's true. She could.

Acnologia and August have many ways to counter her Nakagami Armor. Wahl's durability is just low.

She hadn't a chance to strike him before he was hit by Jupiter Cannon.

She isn't Spriggan tier.

Wahl >>> Ajeel, but Erza would win this because her magic is super effective against Wahl while she was in a huge disadvantage against Ajeel. But in the end Wahl is the only Spriggan that Erza can match.

Laxus speed was far better than Wahl's speed.

Well, everybody here keeps talking about flight advantage. Personally, I couldn't care less.

Wahl's speed has to be greater than Erza. Erza's flight armor will not match lightning speed. Wahl matched the speed of light.

I find Nakagami Armor to be baised. It works on Minerva but not Acnologia and August?

I don't like Nakagami Armor at all. If it doesn't work 100% on Acnologia and August, Erza should have never been able to cut through Minerva's Space Magic.

Your points are logical, don't get me wrong. But I do want to point out something.....

Erza Scarlet had many chances to take down Ajeel. But Erza just simply lacked the skill to destroy the weakest Spriggan.

The fact that Erza didn't use Nakagami Armor and destroy Ajeel shows me that her armor was just PiS from the start. Not to mention, she couldn't keep Ajeel at bay and was caught by the weakest Spriggan.

She was literally knocking at death's door until the cannon saved her.

I don't think that Erza's attacks are super effective against Wahl. She has nothing in her arsenal that will match Wahl's weaponry. Wahl can easily keep her at bay and just spam artillery fire and nukes until her body explodes.

Remember that 400 km cannon blast or whatever? If Wahl can cover that much radius, a mainly CQC combatant like Erza would never stand a chance.

kkck · Jun 1, 2016

I am inclined to going for Walh.

Both are incredibly versatile fighters more than anything. However erza has not really shown an armor which would allow her to straight up cancel walh and walh does have the ability to deal with attacks about as quickly as they come. I feel like the surprise factor also helped laxus a lot as he was able to catch walh off guard with a brand new type of lightning which he conveniently couldn't absorb. Erza is insanely powerful as well however we saw her fight with ajir and it showed her as being consistently at a disadvantage even after landing attacks on him. Overall erza managed to hold her ground and win against ajir mostly because of the insane amount of help she had through the fight thanks to biska's jupiter shots, once of which actually landed on ajir. Erza is unlikely to win this fight without help IMO.

GokuSSJG · Jun 1, 2016

that Lighting wasn't a Lightning according to manga.Wahl apparently isn't immune to Red Lightning only regular Lightning.since Erza can use armors to damage Wahl,unlike Laxus,then she can defeat him.

Aonori · Jun 1, 2016

Erza wins (~~with God troll armor~~), without it Wahl wins, due to his etherion cannon, if he doesnt dickride during the fight.

Stormsfury · Jun 1, 2016

Erza couldn't beat Ajeel who was messing around with her for most of the fight......... she ain't beating Wahl. Not to mention Wahl can analyse her abilities and adjust his body and attacks accordingly.

kkck · Jun 1, 2016

GokuSSJG said:
that Lighting wasn't a Lightning according to manga.Wahl apparently isn't immune to Red Lightning only regular Lightning.since Erza can use armors to damage Wahl,unlike Laxus,then she can defeat him.

The chapter where the thing appeared was called "red lightning" and IIRC the manga referred to it as lightning that surpasses lightning. More so, the name of the technique has"lightning" in it. So it is lightning, it just so happens to be a different type of lightning which walh couldn't absorb. erza has a number of armors and can adapt to fights but adapting and changing is pretty much walh's game. He can adapt as far as erza at least. It's not like he has any other specific vulnerabilities which we know erza could exploit. If anything her best shot would be her sakura sword and hoping all of her power is enough to be walh... Which is at best a long shot.

GokuSSJG · Jun 1, 2016

kkck said:
The chapter where the thing appeared was called "red lightning" and IIRC the manga referred to it as lightning that surpasses lightning. More so, the name of the technique has"lightning" in it. So it is lightning, it just so happens to be a different type of lightning which walh couldn't absorb. erza has a number of armors and can adapt to fights but adapting and changing is pretty much walh's game. He can adapt as far as erza at least. It's not like he has any other specific vulnerabilities which we know erza could exploit. If anything her best shot would be her sakura sword and hoping all of her power is enough to be walh... Which is at best a long shot.

yeah,I just checked it out.Mercury Fulminate exists in real life and Red Lighting is Mercury Fulminate:Red Lightning which is his attack/mode.Nakagami Armor Erza should defeat Wahl imo.

kkck · Jun 1, 2016

GokuSSJG said:
yeah,I just checked it out.Mercury Fulminate exists in real life and Red Lighting is Mercury Fulminate:Red Lightning which is his attack/mode.Nakagami Armor Erza should defeat Wahl imo.

Well, she used that armor to beat ajir but she only landed a hit with it after the mercury cannon landed on ajir and gave her the opportunity. Without help she wouldn't have been able to land the finishing blow or even use the armor. This is fight where erza gets no help whatsoever.

GokuSSJG · Jun 1, 2016

kkck said:
Well, she used that armor to beat ajir but she only landed a hit with it after the mercury cannon landed on ajir and gave her the opportunity. Without help she wouldn't have been able to land the finishing blow or even use the armor. This is fight where erza gets no help whatsoever.

well Ajeel is had pretty much fucked up magic and considering that he took on Erza so easily speaks for itself.Wahl can see her weakness though but then again she can just change her armor.

Holt · Jun 1, 2016

Cobra said:
What? My point here is that Wahl can fly and rain attacks down while Erza won't be able to do anything except pretty much stand there. As stated before, Black Wing doesn't have impressive feats to take down someone like Wahl.

So she either gets beat by being barraged with attacks from above, or she gets beat up close (if she decides to use Black Wing) due to Wahl's superior combat speed.

Does Black Wing even grant flight anyway? I've never seen Erza straight up fly in any of her armors ever, throughout the entire series.

Of course his weakness identifier means something. It means that he'll stay in the air and spam attacks until she's done. That's the quickest and most efficient way for him to end the match.

Wahl was keeping up with Laxus, who is >> Erza.

My point is that she isn't going to just stand there and 'do nothing'. When she needs to evade, she'll use an armor to do so. It does grant flight for short moments irrc but regardless, Erza doesn't need to be able to fully fly to do so. Laxus can't fly but it didn't hamper him against Wahl. Flight is a none issue here. Wahl isn't going to be able to simply take to the air and eliminate Erza with her being helpless.

No, you think that's the most efficient way but that doesn't make it so. Besides, Wahl's analyser doesn't do that. It tells him the opponent's weakness if there's one. It doesn't entirely strategize the fight for him. Remember how he checked Laxus? What happened there? He saw that Laxus body was weak but that was it. How best he uses that information is up to him. Anyway, Erza is versatile enough that there isn't any glaring weakness that would drastically change the game. Or at least you have to give an example of such weakness instead.

Wahl was keeping up with Laxus who was ill and Wahl also had immunity to lightning. It certainly means Wahl is fast enough to match Laxus but it doesn't mean Wahl is on par with Laxus because he isn't. Erza shouldn't be far off from Laxus.

Nemispelled said:
Well, everybody here keeps talking about flight advantage. Personally, I couldn't care less.

Wahl's speed has to be greater than Erza. Erza's flight armor will not match lightning speed. Wahl matched the speed of light.

I find Nakagami Armor to be baised. It works on Minerva but not Acnologia and August?

I don't like Nakagami Armor at all. If it doesn't work 100% on Acnologia and August, Erza should have never been able to cut through Minerva's Space Magic.

Your points are logical, don't get me wrong. But I do want to point out something.....

Erza Scarlet had many chances to take down Ajeel. But Erza just simply lacked the skill to destroy the weakest Spriggan.

The fact that Erza didn't use Nakagami Armor and destroy Ajeel shows me that her armor was just PiS from the start. Not to mention, she couldn't keep Ajeel at bay and was caught by the weakest Spriggan.

She was literally knocking at death's door until the cannon saved her.

I don't think that Erza's attacks are super effective against Wahl. She has nothing in her arsenal that will match Wahl's weaponry. Wahl can easily keep her at bay and just spam artillery fire and nukes until her body explodes.

Remember that 400 km cannon blast or whatever? If Wahl can cover that much radius, a mainly CQC combatant like Erza would never stand a chance.

Wahl's speed is greater yes, but I doubt Erza would have a problem keeping up.

Erza hasn't faced August or Acno with Nakagami. Whether or not it works can only be debated but she wouldn't have a chance to use it anyway. Wouldn't go into length on this since it'd venture off topic. Wahl is neither on August or Acno's level either in Magic or strength so those examples aren't relevant here. Nakagami worked on Ajeel who's as strong as Wahl. Regardless of opinion, Wahl isn't far off from Ajeel so NA would work.

Actually, that's pretty typical. How many fighters start the fight with their strongest ability? The usual is to keep trying until you eventually win. Erza used numerous armor before Nakagami. Outcome may have been very different if she had used NA in one of those prior hits.

She couldn't keep Ajeel at bay because there was zero visibility. That's something Wahl doesn't have. She was knocking at deaths door because in addition to being unable to see, Ajeel has great mobility within sand world. She got caught and then Ajeel almost completely sucked the moisture from her body (this was the second time btw). This we're all conditions that contributed to her getting near knocked out, but even then, she still had enough to use NA and take out Ajeel. All those were a complication of abilities unique to Ajeel. Erza doesn't have to worry about Sand world and no visibility within it. Or about her enemy being able to move freely while she's hindered. Or said enemy draining moisture from here. It's pretty much a straight up brawl with Wahl (or would be so for a lot of the battle). Fighting Wahl without the hindrance of such conditions like she faced with Ajeel is something Erza can cope with. And Laxus could tank Wahl's attacks. Erza's just about as much of a tank as Laxus or better even, especially if we consider her armors and the fact that laxus' body was weak at the time.

Nemispelled · Jun 1, 2016

Holt said:
Wahl's speed is greater yes, but I doubt Erza would have a problem keeping up.

I don't see how this sentence makes sense. If Erza can keep up, than their speed is pretty much tied. If Wahl's speed is greater, Erza can't keep up.

Holt said:
Erza hasn't faced August or Acno with Nakagami. Whether or not it works can only be debated but she wouldn't have a chance to use it anyway. Wouldn't go into length on this since it'd venture off topic. Wahl is neither on August or Acno's level either in Magic or strength so those examples aren't relevant here. Nakagami worked on Ajeel who's as strong as Wahl. Regardless of opinion, Wahl isn't far off from Ajeel so NA would work.

Let's talk serious here. Nobody is going to expect me to believe that Nakagami might work on Acno or August...? Like really?

The only way I'll ever agree to that is when I see it. As for Wahl, he is one of the Spriggan 12. 1 slash from Nakagami armor isn't going to defeat him.

Might as well make a special round in this tournament called "Erza vs. Alvarez".

If her Nakagami can slash anything, Ishgar shouldn't be struggling as hard as they are currently in the war, as of last chapter.

Holt said:
Actually, that's pretty typical. How many fighters start the fight with their strongest ability? The usual is to keep trying until you eventually win. Erza used numerous armor before Nakagami. Outcome may have been very different if she had used NA in one of those prior hits.

She couldn't keep Ajeel at bay because there was zero visibility. That's something Wahl doesn't have. She was knocking at deaths door because in addition to being unable to see, Ajeel has great mobility within sand world. She got caught and then Ajeel almost completely sucked the moisture from her body (this was the second time btw). This we're all conditions that contributed to her getting near knocked out, but even then, she still had enough to use NA and take out Ajeel. All those were a complication of abilities unique to Ajeel. Erza doesn't have to worry about Sand world and no visibility within it. Or about her enemy being able to move freely while she's hindered. Or said enemy draining moisture from here. It's pretty much a straight up brawl with Wahl (or would be so for a lot of the battle). Fighting Wahl without the hindrance of such conditions like she faced with Ajeel is something Erza can cope with. And Laxus could tank Wahl's attacks. Erza's just about as much of a tank as Laxus or better even, especially if we consider her armors and the fact that laxus' body was weak at the time.

The fact that Erza failed to defeat the weakest Spriggan tells me she is not ready to take on Wahl by herself. I don't care what armor she has or how powerful it is.

She was 1 second from death. That would be a great time to use your most powerful attack and give everything you got.

Before Ajeel was about to kill Erza, that is the strongest Erza we've seen in this whole manga series. And it was pitiful...

As for the zero visibility sand thing, that's an excuse. Wahl has other ways to keep her at bay. He's faster and he can fire a barrage of artillery at Erza. Erza's fate would still be the same.

The sand sucking moisture is also another excuse. Wahl has his own way of defeating Erza. He doesn't need to resort to Ajeel's techniques.

He alone has the power of an Etherion blast, that's enough to wipe out Erza with one shot.

The solution to not get caught is for Erza to focus on fighting and waste less energy on her famous nakama speeches.

There is honestly no excuse for getting caught by Ajeel. If it's not zero visibility, it's something else.

They are Spriggans, it's no joke.

Tirl · Jun 1, 2016

My vote to Erza very very high dif. This fight like vs 100 monsters on GMG.

XXEliteXXAceXX · Jun 1, 2016

For Wahl Icht vs Erza Scarlet, the match will be quite even but there are a few factors to consider...

Wahl > Erza [High-Extreme Difficulty]

I see Wahl taking the win here for several reasons. Erza is a very capable and experienced fighter but Wahl has some advantages over her. Erza is a CQC type of fighter while Wahl excels in both Range and Melee.

Attack: Wahl > Erza
Defense: Wahl ≤ Erza
Speed: Wahl = Erza
Versatility: Wahl = Erza
Intelligence: Wahl < Erza
MP: Wahl > Erza

Starting off with Attack, Wahl has more power mainly because of his Etherion Cannon which we know has massive Destructive Capacity. Granted, it is on a much smaller scale but the Attack Potency is quite comparable. Erza has Nakagami Starlight but it shouldn't be able to match Etherion.

In terms of Defense, Wahl generally has more durability than Erza. However, if we're just talking about her Adamantine Armor, she will most likely exceed his defense.

**NOTE: Erza only has more defense using her most durable armor, but it will be compensated for as she will have even lower attack power.

As for Speed, it won't really matter much here because both Wahl and Erza are comparable in that regard.

**NOTE: Flight doesn't matter as neither can stay airborne for long periods of time.

Next is Versatility which is pretty much the same for both characters. Erza possesses Requip Magic (allowing her to use many different armors) but Wahl has Machias Physiology which allows him to change/transform his physique to match his opponents.

**NOTE: Both characters can change to counter each other.

Additionally, it should be obvious that Erza beats Wahl in Intelligence so that is a given. Wahl has access to a person's Weakness but as it was shown, he can't interpret it properly nor does his scanning work efficiently. Erza, on the other hand, can figure out someone's weakness without much of a problem and correctly counter them.

**NOTE: Versatility cancels out with Intelligence here. Despite knowing each other weaknesses, they can both counter each other.

Lastly, it isn't surprising that Wahl has more MP than Erza. After all, he looked completely fine after casting his Anti-Material Magic Cannon while Erza ran out of energy the moment she used Nakagami Starlight.

Mirage · Jun 1, 2016

Holt said:
My point is that she isn't going to just stand there and 'do nothing'.

Why? I already explained what she can do, and that's go into her Black Wing armor. She'll just get rekt if she does that. One punch from Base Wahl sent Laxus through multiple buildings. Imagine what it'll do to Erza.

Holt said:
When she needs to evade, she'll use an armor to do so. It does grant flight for short moments irrc but regardless, Erza doesn't need to be able to fully fly to do so. Laxus can't fly but it didn't hamper him against Wahl. Flight is a none issue here. Wahl isn't going to be able to simply take to the air and eliminate Erza with her being helpless.

1. Erza actually can't fly. She can probably take large jumping strides, but that's really it.

2. Laxus was just stronger than Wahl, that's why he came out victorious, not because he couldn't fly. It's a different case here with Erza, who's like a tier or two below Laxus.

Holt said:
Flight is a none issue here. Wahl isn't going to be able to simply take to the air and eliminate Erza with her being helpless.

Lol.

First you state that Erza can fly, and now that you know she can't, you say flight is a non-issue anyway? Nice backpedaling there buddy. Sorry to burst thy bubble, but flight is very much an issue. Tell me exactly what Erza can do against an opponent who's hundreds of feets in the air raining down a whole bunch missile and beams?

This is like me saying speed doesn't matter, or durability doesn't matter. Of course they matter.

Holt said:
No, you think that's the most efficient way but that doesn't make it so. Besides, Wahl's analyser doesn't do that. It tells him the opponent's weakness if there's one. It doesn't entirely strategize the fight for him. Remember how he checked Laxus? What happened there? He saw that Laxus body was weak but that was it. How best he uses that information is up to him. Anyway, Erza is versatile enough that there isn't any glaring weakness that would drastically change the game. Or at least you have to give an example of such weakness instead.

Bold: Erza's weakness is long range combat, and that's exactly what he'll do.

Holt said:
Wahl was keeping up with Laxus who was ill and Wahl also had immunity to lightning. It certainly means Wahl is fast enough to match Laxus but it doesn't mean Wahl is on par with Laxus because he isn't. Erza shouldn't be far off from Laxus.

I agree with you except for this part:

Holt said:
Erza shouldn't be far off from Laxus.

Erza is pretty far off Laxus. The fact that Erza struggled and lost against a weaker Spriggan she had an advantage against while an ill Laxus who stalemated with a Spriggan he had a disadvantage against already speaks volumes.

One casual nuke should one-shot Erza anyway.

Eternal Dragon Of ChaOZ · Jun 1, 2016

I vote for Wahl because I'm sick of the because she's Erza factor, impossible high intestinal fortitude and BS victories.

Wahl has incredible offence and should win.

Kiki · Jun 1, 2016

It's more like Wahl is a long-range fighter, while Erza is a medium-range fighter maybe? Wahl's railgun, missiles, etherion, 400-km cannon, all are long-range attacks. He needs time to do all of those attacks. Wahl can fly and spam Erza, but then again Erza is a medium-range fighter. While she excels at close combat, she also has Heaven's Wheel armor and uses Blumenblatt to attack Wahl. Hmm.. quite difficult. Tbh I give my vote to Wahl though.