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Discussion What do you think of Berserk then and now?

SchmoDawg

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I'd really like to see casca die, I think it would really set guts off and would hopefully make him lose his nancy boy comradery ideas, even though I know it won't happen. It's too bad he's become such a wimp he used be so badass walking around and killing stuff just trying to find Griffith. I also wanna know more about the skull knight. To answer the question though, I liked it a lot more before guts gained all these allies :notrust[br]Posted at: April 29, 2006, 12:45:45 PM_________________________________________________
Dragonzair said:
I haven't heard of Bastard before, but I don't think they'd be the same..since the name just doesn't make sense. XD

I agree with you guys about how the artwork has really improved.
Yeah, I agree with that the artwork is way better then when the manga started. haha you have to watch the anime of Bastard its cool just cause the Dark Schnieder (main character and sort of a bastard) has the same voice as Franky from One Piece, but no it is nothing like berserk beside the midevil setting.
 

Kickmeister

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I loved the flashback, and I can understand why people wouldn't like where it turned.. It went from a dark manga to a more entertaining but still serious one.. Though I like it the way it is now.. I mean the comedy is priceless!
Like when Ishidoro (I think that's the kids name) stole some old mans food and the old man was all nice towards him and said that he could get one of his apples or something, then suddenly Ishidoro goes: "Ishi-drop" and knocks the old man out! That was awesome..
 

Anax

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Dragonzair said:
The old Berserk was more violent and all, which was fine by me. It also had the Band of the Hawks, whom I adored. Their death just killed me over. XD
I think I cried during that part... Judeau had this rogue-ish, "jack of all trades but master of none" feel to him and his death left a big hole in me. Of course, the loss of the band as band and all the events of that day were painful to me (as painful as anything can be to a reader) and I tried my best to sympathise with Gatts, although I would have properly perished in that fight, dying without even saving someone else like Judeau did...

but I have to say that I'm glad that there's less 'rape' stuff and naked people. It's somewhat distracting. I also like the new group, and Gutts has finally become more human. XD Human, in a sense that he worked with other people this time, and not for himself.
Well, rape isn't nice, but all the sex in the manga was (and is) welcome! Casca was a beauty and her sexual moments with Gatts where indeed the peak of the Golden Years in my eyes... Don't take me wrong though, I can tell the difference between a seinen adventure manga with sexual scenes and ******. What made it all so great was the story behind it all! We followed the young couple through all their hardships and tough moments that brought them close... that day in the woods was the zenith of "the good times". I'm sorry DZ, I apologise to anyone who thinks I'm a Jiraiya, but I did love that part of Berserk... *sigh* poor couple...

I'm still hoping for more Casca interaction though.
Amen to that! I wouldn't know anything about the feeling of being raped but she shouldn't be running away from the world! She has a child to raise and a war to fight... she can't be a burden to the others forever! Again, I hope you won't this the wrong way, but Caska lost a lot of her apeal when she became a vegetable... It's hard not to complain the new, empty Caska, with the bright, beautiful, quick witted Caska of the Golden Years. Why did I mention "beautiful"? Because the way she is now she has lost all of her femininity, which is a large part of beauty (in my eyes).

And I really missed the Puck - Gutts interaction as well. The only thing I don't like now, is how Puck has gone down to a tiny humour relief. Which he was before, but he wa also mroe serious then. Now he's mre of like a side kick to Isidro, where I'd rather him be one to Gutts.

And I don't like how the manga-ka draws him now. T_______T
Puck... he was drawn chibi all the more as time and chapters went by... a pity.

Now, let me say one more thing. Now vs then, in my mind isn't just Golden Years arc vs the current arc but also Berserk before Gatts met more people and formed a party vs Berserk now. It feels like the manga grew softer in a way I don't like... No matter how hooked I am to manga like Naruto or Bleach it is obvious to me that there's no true suspense, no danger of anyone dying. The same is happening to Berserk! I distinctly remember the time Gatts met this old priest with his daughter and how they both died. I just couldn't accept that this cute little lady, who seemed to like Gatts would die so suddenly... Berserk was generally unpredictable, you didn't know if anyone other than Gatts would live or die or when for that matter. Now though, it's more like a violent version of the standard shonen manga we grew up with...

Anyhow, call me stupid but despite what I have mentioned I will continue to read Berserk and said shonen manga, and what is more: enjoy them! :grin
 

JioFreed666

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Back then I loved Guts and Caska scene :amuse

Now I like the apostles slaughting anything :smile-big
 

mistah radical

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Well, this topic is old but there's no traffic on this area so I guess no one cares if I comment. I just read the whole series over a couple of weeks for the first time, so it's interesting to think about. This will be full of spoilers since I'm assuming you've read everything to view this topic.

Yes, I think it's hard to not notice the huge difference in the story before Griffith becomes a God Hand and after. The manga is amazing in that not too far in we learn of the God Hands and that someone Guts once new will become one of them. It's even more amazing that then we go into the backstory of what happened. So you're reading the whole time, about these extremely complex people with their own goals and humanity even if they're what we think of as evil, like Griffith, and you know that it's a forgone conclusion that all ends in ultimate betrayal and horror. That in itself is amazing. I don't know Miura Kentaro realized how great he hooked everyone or not by revealing the end ahead of time, but it works brilliantly. There's never a dull moment in that part of the series because you analyze everything for signs of the coming doom. Also the tension between Caska and Guts is amazing. Their whole love story arc is just ridiculously believable. When they finally get together it's because they are only people for each other in the world. You know there will be problems, but they promise to love each other, and it makes sense, even with Guts still disturbed about his own rape and Caska still partially conflicted about Griffith.

I just found that the whole of that half of the series was brilliant. You never felt like anything was reaching for a new plot, there was enough plot bubbling out of the character's psyche's.

As far as after the first eclipse, well I admit I started to get confused. The event itself is a mixed-bag. Griffith is awfully quick to listen to some frickin DEMONS about what he should do with himself. He's committed some political dirty deeds, but he's actually done a lot of heroic things up until that point. Suddenly, he not only listens to strange monsters, sacrifices his loyal men, but he rapes Caska, which is almost absurd. I guess it's probably not much of a stretch to say Griffith is a repressed homosexual and wanted to destroy Guts for loving her, but again things really start to fall apart here in terms of us actually knowing that and just being left to guess. Griffith's sudden turn to the "dark side" for power is still basically a mystery other then that he really liked the idea of being king of a country. Is that enough to rape and kill everyone? What scarred his psyche to that point?

After this, the story is lacking in a footing. Guts has to wander about in the darkness trying to figure things out. Caska has been turned into a pathetic, mentally-ill lunatic, to the point of drooling on her himself, wandering off, and being a sad excuse for what was once the only women strong enough to be a leader in Griffith's army and the lover of a mad superhuman like Guts. Before she had her own dilemmas and depth, now she's... nothing... which I think for a lot of people was a disappointing direction for her. Maybe you can argue it's a set-up, we're having to put up with Caska being this disgraced for some eventual turn around where she gains a whole lot of power from it.

The only new prophecy is the king of the elf land will be able to cure her but it won't be what Guts is thinking. That's not really a motivating thing to read for. Oh boy, she'll get her mind back but something else will suck! I sort of want a new cycle to get ordained by now, like we knew the original eclipse was coming. It's more fun when you know that everything is contributed to some important fate. Right now, the whole fate of everything is a mystery, even including what the hell Griffith's life as a God Hand was and how that suddenly jumped to the whole Rebirth thing. It's a series with so many scopes, that it would be good if Miura Kentaro prepared us for the next center point of the epic rather than just leaving us wondering.

Overall, the series is incredible though. My gripes about the second half are more just because it's a bit different and requires more patience and preys on the reader more by not letting him in on what things mean. It's still quite good, and if I hadn't read the first half, would be quite good. And really isn't the only true downer how long new chapters are taking? :)
 

JioFreed666

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holy f*** man
 

xi0

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LOL

I think that I agree with everything that mistah radical says.

The only thing that I disagree with is that I think the Eclipse was an excellent way to reveal one of Berserk's main themes, Causality. It also explains why Guts is possibly the only person in the story that can go against the laws of causality. He is this way because he survived the Eclipse. The emotions that Guts experience are so genuine and raw, that you can feel them yourself. The sense of betrayal and hatred he feels is because of the Eclipse, and his journey through impossible situations only reinforce the helplessness that a man can feel. Guts still finds a way to triumph in the end though. That is what the Skull Knight saw in him, and it is what Flora saw in him as well. It's the reason Guts is still alive.
 

JioFreed666

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I just said that because it was so long
 

mistah radical

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haha, sorry. I just read the whole thing and was thinking about it a lot. XD
 

xi0

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Ball AKA Gamakichi said:
I just said that because it was so long
I figured that was why. But it was very smart analysis of the series in my opinion.

mistah radical said:
haha, sorry. I just read the whole thing and was thinking about it a lot. XD
Don't apologize. It's the sort of reaction I would expect from someone who was able to read the entire series.
 

White Rabbit

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man, I always get jelous when someone states the he/she read the entire series for the first time.
I wish I could hire some creepy Haitian to erase my memory about it and then read it again.

Being into the story for so long makes it a little hard for me to make an objective estimation about the differences of the the golden age and the post-eclipse events.
Since the golden age is what hooked me on Berserk, I'd say it's my favourite part... but that's not supposed to be a statement about the quality of characters and/or storytelling.
 

Silhouette

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Many fans criticize the end of the first arc for being too violent or because all the members of the band of the hawk were killed. But the way I see it, kill one of Guts' friends he will be angry, kill a few and he will fight until the enemy runs away but kill all of them and abuse the mother of his child then a beast is born..a beast who will chase the monsters who did that until he wipes them off the face of Earth...it was what gave Guts his famous moments of rage and that scary look on his face. Before the eclipse Guts was driven by fear from his background with Gambino, now he is lead by both fear and rage...dang Berserk is awesome
 

Aldrich

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I can say Berserk is the only manga I thoroughly enjoyed from beginning to the (temporary) end. The only thing I disliked was how Miura handled Casca's rape. I love the character of Casca, she's one of the most human, believable female characters from all the mangas I've read, and to see how Miura treated her kind of startled me.

Not the rape in itself, but the way it was shown. It just looked like any crass semi ****** fanservicy crap, like something out of a Oh Great! chapter, and somehow seemed really out of place in the sheer horror of the Eclipse. Compared to how Miura depicted the rape of the farmer's daughter at the hands of Wyald a few chapter earlier it was done in a really poor taste, to the point where the most disturbing thing in this scene for me were Gutts's screams.

Other than that, I have no problems with Berserk. Truly a masterpiece.
 

Absolutio

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I can say Berserk is the only manga I thoroughly enjoyed from beginning to the (temporary) end. The only thing I disliked was how Miura handled Casca's rape. I love the character of Casca, she's one of the most human, believable female characters from all the mangas I've read, and to see how Miura treated her kind of startled me.

Not the rape in itself, but the way it was shown. It just looked like any crass semi ****** fanservicy crap, like something out of a Oh Great! chapter, and somehow seemed really out of place in the sheer horror of the Eclipse. Compared to how Miura depicted the rape of the farmer's daughter at the hands of Wyald a few chapter earlier it was done in a really poor taste, to the point where the most disturbing thing in this scene for me were Gutts's screams.

Other than that, I have no problems with Berserk. Truly a masterpiece.
I didnt notice any "poor taste" in the rape. It kinda grossed me out. And it's a painting after all => Miura is awesome in his work.

And yes, from beggining to the end. Berserk is a masterpiece, which makes me unsure of which part I liked more.
But generally, part 1 is better in the anime than the manga, coz they have more scenes there (if I remember correctly). (not that the manga is bad at all :p)
 

MZar

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I apologize if this is common knowledge, I am new to this Realm. I watched Berserk episodes 1-25. I assume there are no more dvd releases after this? Can anyone tell me which graphic novels I need to buy to continue the story after Episode 25? Obviously Gatts gets out of Hell and I hear Kaska is insane and out as well. I'd really like to continue to follow this story. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Also, (again forgive my ignorance) I had once seen an Anime where these people morphed into Wolves, does anyone know the name of this?

One more, when I was in Japan, I saw an Anime where a whole city was built on the back of a gigantic turtle that walked from city to city. Once there, the inhabitants on the back of the turtle would disembark and attack the near-by city. Does anyone know the name on this?

Thanks in advance
 

xi0

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The anime covers roughly volumes 5-8 of the manga. I would suggest reading from the beginning since the anime only takes bits and pieces of some of the plot.

This isn't the correct section for the other two questions but I think the anime with the Giant Turtle is a movie called Amon Saga and you can go here to for more info.

I'm not sure what the wolf anime could be since that seems to be more common than a Giant Turtle with a City on it's back. Fushigi Yuugi features shapeshifters though. Ashitare can shapeshift into a wolf.

Hmmm...do you mean Wolf's Rain? The Wolves in the anime can appear as human, but they aren't.

I hope this all helps, but remember this is a section for Berserk.
 

Franckie

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The Introduction Arc was meh. I liked the artwork though, which kept my interest. It was Golden Age where I have to admit that Berserk became my absolute favorite manga. I will admit though that the ending of Golden Age was a bit...disturbing. Having everyone killed along with Casca's fate was quite gruesome and needn't have been as bloodied as it was. The ending felt extremely overboard.

After Golden Age, the Conviction Arc was pretty good as well. Matters concerning Jill and the lost children though were dragged out, yet it served its purpose of making Guts look like a "monster" quite well. Things got interesting afterwards and continue to do so with the subsequent arcs.

Having the manga go into a more fantasy theme with the introduction of characters like Schierke really made the manga interesting (Isidro felt like he came out of nowhere though). Berserk has been enjoyable, very enjoyable. And I continue looking forward to seeing this series reach its ending. I have to admit I was surprised to learn for how long Berserk has been going, but the wait will be worth it.
 

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I think the berserk anime was one of the best of all time...very tragic scenes there. And the manga Defenetly has uped the bar on story telling. I just wish there would be a continuation of the anime and for the berserk manga to come out quicker and waiting a month or two for a 23 page manga chapter.
 

xi0

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I would bet on there being more anime adaptations eventually. Berserk is too epic and popular for there not to be. I would bet more on OVAs or Movies though.
 

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I honestly don't like the use of separation when it comes to Berserk -- people too often like to compare archs in the series as "Old Berserk" and "New Berserk", when the archs are an evolution of the story, not a separate entity in itself. I think that something many fans miss when reading a manga the caliber of Berserk is that this story is Epic in scope and is constantly evolving as Miura envisions it.

I think that the anime may have caused this popular separation ism for the series, as many people that liked the anime strangely don't like the final episode, which in my opinion is closest to how the series is. Bloody battles, terror, rape, sadness -- and the battle of a man who wants to protect what he loves and avenge the events of his past -- this is what makes Berserk what it is.

I will admit that there are several characters that I miss from the previous archs, specifically Judeau and "Gatsu fan boy" Gaston. Not to mention Caska as she used to be -- a warrior woman that Gatsu not only loved but respected as a fellow warrior. What has happened to Caska over the course of the series is dramatic and sad, because of how far she has deteriorated from her former self into a infant-like nuisance. However, she has her part to play still as Gatsu goes to hell and back to put things right and return her to her former self.

As for other things that I miss from previous archs, it would have to be the former camaraderie between Gatsu and Griffith in the band of the hawk. This was played out so well In the Golden Age arch, and set up so beautifully the rise and fall of two men that would completely change the world for better or for worse. How Miura set these set of events up is just magical, as I myself have never really hated a villain in a story as I do Griffith, especially now as the "Hawk of Light".

I don't really see much of a difference when it comes to the bloodshed though, except that the majority of the battles have become more fantastical and otherworldly, in comparison to much of the Golden Age fights, which were typical for a series who's concepts are derived from the Dark Ages.

As for the current archs however, I'm greatly enjoying this new camaraderie with Gatsu and his group. The inclusion of Serpico, Farnese, Isidoro and Schierke have drastically changed how Gatsu reacts in his battles and dealings with others, which has improved the series In my opinion. The relationship between Gatsu, Schierke, Farnese and Caska is tremendously deep --as all of the girls have some connection with Gatsu (or want a connection ^_^) and the way they react to one another is very rich. Isidoro brings a level of comedy to the series alongside Puck and Evarella, while at the same time kind of putting the "Gatsu's apprentice" aspect into the character at the same time. As the series progresses It seems more and more that Gatsu is slowly becoming this beacon to people which in many ways mimics Griffith in his pre-Femto phase (only minus the "i'm going to sacrifice your lives for my dream and not care to recognize you as a real person" side that Griffith put out there).
 
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