Discussion What do you think of Berserk then and now?

[MissingLimb]

It feels a little that Berserk is becoming less... Berserk to be honest.
In the very first chapters, Gutts was so different! Totally deflective towards Puck and licking off the blood from his hands which came from his brand, absolutely thirsty for battle. He was even torturing a dying demon for no reason by puncturing it with arrows... slaying the dying count in front of his young daughter until his knife breaks... hell, what a dark guy he was! It was cooler than the current state definitly, Gutts is becoming more socialised... it's a little sad to see this happening. to be honest I hope his current group to die a terrible death so Gutts can return to his old style.
At least his change was plausible as he met those people reminding him of his old company... however, it's not as cool as it was

In any case I just noticed that it's definitly worth reading the first three volumes over again after having caught up with the current chapters, damn Gatts displayed an amount of badassness like it never again happens afterwards
"Just die then... It's so easy... Just cut your wrist with that knife then it will end. You'll be cut off from that horrible thing. Like you may be able to get to heaven... or rather go to hell so you can meet your mom and dad."

Wait what?!? Seriously?!? Maybe it's just because i watched the anime first, but seeing Gattsu fall to that level really bugged me. In the golden age arc you watch him turn from a brawny badass with no place in the world to a brawny badass who's finally found a home. And then he gets fucked over and goes back to being a brawny badass but this time the whole world's against him and he's a bit more of an asshole.
I don't know about you, but I hated that. I mean I loved watching Gattsu kill the demons but I hated that he was put in that position. Things are finally looking up for our hero and now you want everyone to die again?
Personally, I think Gattsu has shown an enormous amount of development in the latest arcs. He's not so set on revenge as he was before, so I don't want to watch him backtrack again.

 

[Roflkopt3r]

Allright, I see many people have sympathies with Gutt's current group and so do I, but I had even more sympathies with the uniqueness of Berserk in the beginning
Ok, maybe it would be overdone to kill all of them, but one or two possibly...

 

[xi0]

Guts' attitude in the beginning wasn't really "unique" at all for the 80s. Maybe the brutalism of the series was rather extreme, but there were plenty of manly, GAR series in the 80s.

 

[llamapie]

It feels a little that Berserk is becoming less... Berserk to be honest.
In the very first chapters, Gutts was so different! Totally deflective towards Puck and licking off the blood from his hands which came from his brand, absolutely thirsty for battle. He was even torturing a dying demon for no reason by puncturing it with arrows... slaying the dying count in front of his young daughter until his knife breaks... hell, what a dark guy he was! It was cooler than the current state definitly, Gutts is becoming more socialised... it's a little sad to see this happening. to be honest I hope his current group to die a terrible death so Gutts can return to his old style.
At least his change was plausible as he met those people reminding him of his old company... however, it's not as cool as it was

In any case I just noticed that it's definitly worth reading the first three volumes over again after having caught up with the current chapters, damn Gatts displayed an amount of badassness like it never again happens afterwards
"Just die then... It's so easy... Just cut your wrist with that knife then it will end. You'll be cut off from that horrible thing. Like you may be able to get to heaven... or rather go to hell so you can meet your mom and dad."

Miura is too good a story teller to make a mistake on characters like that. :P What he showed us is how detached he was from people because he was a constant risk to their lives. Then we had the Golden Arc where we saw how compassionate he truly could be and how well he worked with people. Then the eclipse where he reverted basically back to the way he was after running away from his jack ass dad. A rogue bad ass.

Slowly he gained comrades again and he has warmed up to them similar to how he was in the Golden Age. And you can't really deny how awesome the first page of Berserk is. :P F'ing a monster then blowing her head off. Simply hooked me there.

 

[xAznSinnage]

LOLwut? Gutts' attitude is justified in any way. Did you even see what happened to him before the Retribution arc? I'm not even going to list the things that happened, cause it's too atrocious. This guy can act like shit to whoever he wants to. His excuse is "wanna trade places?". Auto-win, every time.

 

[benelori]

It feels a little that Berserk is becoming less... Berserk to be honest.
In the very first chapters, Gutts was so different! Totally deflective towards Puck and licking off the blood from his hands which came from his brand, absolutely thirsty for battle. He was even torturing a dying demon for no reason by puncturing it with arrows... slaying the dying count in front of his young daughter until his knife breaks... hell, what a dark guy he was! It was cooler than the current state definitly, Gutts is becoming more socialised... it's a little sad to see this happening. to be honest I hope his current group to die a terrible death so Gutts can return to his old style.
At least his change was plausible as he met those people reminding him of his old company... however, it's not as cool as it was

In any case I just noticed that it's definitly worth reading the first three volumes over again after having caught up with the current chapters, damn Gatts displayed an amount of badassness like it never again happens afterwards
"Just die then... It's so easy... Just cut your wrist with that knife then it will end. You'll be cut off from that horrible thing. Like you may be able to get to heaven... or rather go to hell so you can meet your mom and dad."

Just blame Caska for that...but you know, there would be no fun if there were no character development...

 

[roxas_strife2]

Allright, I see many people have sympathies with Gutt's current group and so do I, but I had even more sympathies with the uniqueness of Berserk in the beginning
Ok, maybe it would be overdone to kill all of them, but one or two possibly...

His attitude is very close to the same, but his survival has become hinged on protecting others. It makes sense that he would feel a sense of camaraderie. I think the manga is more so setting the stage for the big climax between him and the God Hand. Gutts doesn't really get the opportunity to torture his foes like he used to, but I bet if he did he would love it. He's got bigger fish to fry though, and he's up to the task now.

 

[Kaiten]

I think Gutts is coming full circle to his time in Band of Hawks. As a loan, violent avenger he was in danger of being overwhelmed by darkness, consumed by the curse, condemned to walk in darkness. By accepting his companions and fighting to protect them, rather than for revenge alone, he has become more like the Gutts of the Golden Age, rather than the Gutts of the Black Swordsman/Retribution arc.

 

[xfactor]

The only arc I didn't like was the one with the girl who wished to be an elf. Long, overdrawn and pointless. It was a totally different atmosphere from the previous chapter (which I think was Griffith's rebirth)

 

[Cyber34]

I personally like the way Berserk is now just as much as I liked the beginning. Even though Gutts has become a little bit soft, it is neccesary for him to tone things down to keep those usefull people around him.

 

[Roflkopt3r]

The only arc I didn't like was the one with the girl who wished to be an elf. Long, overdrawn and pointless. It was a totally different atmosphere from the previous chapter (which I think was Griffith's rebirth)

Actually I thought so as well while reading it, but afterwards it seemed kinda fine to me. A raging Gatsu with some awesome shots and the introduction into the Vatican army stuff. It was quite ok. It really felt like a "filler" of an anime, as it truly was a total side story, but it still was nice.

 

[zelllogan]

I like the beginning of Berserk ... I like berserk until Griffith becomes Femto.
I liked the original casca ... but that rape killed my envy to read more. I continued for some chapters but it was just not the same for me. I was not interested in the new characters and Casca was just annoying after her rape.

I read some dark mangas (ichi the killer) or weird/disturbing mangas (homonculus) but still ... I had to stop Berserk ... I couldn't continue reading a manga where main characters are completely messed up because of Femto

 

[Roflkopt3r]

I like the beginning of Berserk ... I like berserk until Griffith becomes Femto.
I liked the original casca ... but that rape killed my envy to read more. I continued for some chapters but it was just not the same for me. I was not interested in the new characters and Casca was just annoying after her rape.

I read some dark mangas (ichi the killer) or weird/disturbing mangas (homonculus) but still ... I had to stop Berserk ... I couldn't continue reading a manga where main characters are completely messed up because of Femto

Wow, that's totally the oposite of my point of view. I love it when a story gets rerolled all over due to such an amazing turnaround. When a story is too straight forward for a too long time, it becomes boring, but here the whole story got changed in a most amazing way.

 

[Fê - forever alone]

For me, it's awesome.

Berserk is kind of different, but it's great without all that raw violence. Now, it seems more focused on the characters development, not only on Gatts anger.

Now we have a new Schierck, who turn out to be a good partner and left to be that spoilt child, always complaining.

Same for Farnese, I think she is the one who has most development so far. From a crazy pyromaniac and sadistic woman, she turn out to be a great witch, who can perform a very strong spell without any complications and side effects - even Schierck had a hard time when she performed the same spell.

I love the way it is, but I just hate the long waiting for a next chapter, lol.

 

[York]

I've thought on this one for a while, and it's been kind of a painful realization for me, Berserk once being my favorite manga. Forgive me, but I need to vent.

I really miss older chapters. Especially the Golden Age. The story used to feel epic and focused, now it's going through these side stories every other arc for months at a time. (or years)

It used to be a series grounded in reality with ominous and intense leaps into fantasy. But now it's becoming the other way around.
It's not a group of soldiers using their wits and skill to survive anymore. It's a group, half comprised of kids and fairies, using mystical powers to hold off enemies long enough for them to simply nuke them with magic. You can make battles bigger/flashier, but it doesn't have the impact that the war among mercenaries had, where a simple stab wound could hold weight, or where treachery in the royal court would take place. Now characters can set themselves on fire and leap through lightning as long as they have magical healing on standby.

I miss when there weren't characters used strictly for comic relief, and making the art deteriorate every panel they're in like some shonen series. Even in the middle of scenes you're supposed to take seriously, they're desperate for Puck to fit in jokes. Do Yoda impressions honestly make the battles more intense? Berserk used to excel in dark symbolism, and even tragic romance. But the series has lost its dark atmosphere, and now half the characters have heavy plot armor. (unless someone can justify how Isidro and Puck survive apostle encounters while other characters haven't, this statement stands)

Lastly there's the waits for release. I'm fine seeing some series like Gantz come monthly every so often. I don't try to judge a series based on late release dates as long as it delivers. But we've literally waited three years for what feels like a filler arc. We have a main character with a vendetta against an angel of darkness, why are we spending time on enemies the comic relief characters could beat?

I'm not saying the series won't ever pick up for me again. I still have the hope that the story can get back on track someday, hopefully with them finally getting to Elfhelm and fixing Casca.
But I doubt it'll ever be like it was..

 

[Aazholh]

What you miss is the excellent back story that leads up to the main story. Those ominous leaps into fantasy were tidbits of things to come. Of course, the story would eventually become more fantasy oriented. How else could Miura explain Griffith's transformation into Femto? Or how Guts' will defeat him? Supernatural foes must be defeated supernaturally. It was proven in volume 3 that simply swinging a huge sword at a godhand is useless.

Although, I do agree that the rate of releases are painful. I can only hope that Miura will stop milking his magnum opus and just finish it.

 

[Roflkopt3r]

Although, I do agree that the rate of releases are painful. I can only hope that Miura will stop milking his magnum opus and just finish it.

I don't think that that's the main point here. "Milking it" would be prolonging the story unecessarily, because that would mean more sales, which he imo does not do.
He doesn't really profit from just releasing in a slow pace I think. That is just to ensure quality

 

[York]

What you miss is the excellent back story that leads up to the main story. Those ominous leaps into fantasy were tidbits of things to come. Of course, the story would eventually become more fantasy oriented. How else could Miura explain Griffith's transformation into Femto? Or how Guts' will defeat him? Supernatural foes must be defeated supernaturally. It was proven in volume 3 that simply swinging a huge sword at a godhand is useless.

Although, I do agree that the rate of releases are painful. I can only hope that Miura will stop milking his magnum opus and just finish it.

(apologizing beforehand for unnecessarily long reply incoming)

Loss of dark atmosphere and focused plot aside, if the Golden Age is simply the back story, I would've hoped that the main story would be just as, if not more, emotionally engaging. I really don't feel as emotionally involved as I did with the earlier characters and stories. Some less likable, others less realistic, overall less suspense.

Remember in the beginning when Guts met up with a little girl and her father? Not a night goes by and the girl's tragically killed and possessed. That was the dark world that was established. Now I really don't get why they decided to add kids to the group. I could understand someone around Rickert's age, but Isidro's what? Ten? Realistically he should've died or gotten possessed a long time ago. Terrible and unnecessary comic relief aside, he has no connection to the story.
Shierke's likeable enough, but I don't really like how her magic impacted the series. Armies have lost their significance when she can just nuke them, no one has to fully rely on their own skill with all their magical augments, and most injuries have little to no threat anymore. And again, what was the purpose of making her so young? Bringing her into a story that's been prominent with murder and rape, you think more children joining the group fits the theme? And her crush on Guts? It's like they're trying to make it out to be a serious love triangle nowadays. lol

Puck hasn't acted like an actual or likable character in years, so moving on.

Serpico and Farnese were the only new members I really liked joining in the beginning. I thought the whole Holy Knights questioning their place, and dark aristocratic background was well done. Though I thought Farnese developed a little too quickly. She went from sadistic masochist to doting babysitter within a few chapters. And I really liked seeing the tactics Serpico employed, but that's lost when he sticks with his new magic garb.

And of course Casca, loss of a good strong willed character, and loss of well done romantic aspects. May be years away from seeing her recover, but of course we're not above playing her mental state as comic relief every now and then. >>


As for the supernatural bits, I can understand supernatural things happening, but I preferred when people still saw them as otherworldly. It used to be a more carefully handled aspect of the story, knowing not to really overdo it so to speak. And I liked it when demons were shown more as subtle manipulators of human history. With things like the spreading of the plague, or apostles seizing their own power, all following the idea that we're puppets of causality. Heh, now apostles are little more than cannon-fodder, and apparently on Griffith's order, vegetarians.

"Milking it" would be prolonging the story unecessarily, because that would mean more sales, which he imo does not do.
He doesn't really profit from just releasing in a slow pace I think. That is just to ensure quality

I take it you think the several year long escapades against the pirates, trolls, and elves will all be vital to the plot.

 

[xi0]

I take it you think the several year long escapades against the pirates, trolls, and elves will all be vital to the plot.

I think what Rofl meant was that it isn't Miura's aim to just extend the series because it still sells well (like certain other mangaka who shall go unnamed). There are conflicting reports, but Miura seems to always be working on the series, and has an understanding...maybe even a contractual agreement with Hakusensha to have the release schedule as it is.

As far as your points with the transformation of the series from the Golden Age until now.....I can't say an opinion is wrong, but the world in Berserk itself has undergone a transformation. Maybe that's a cop-out *shrugs*

Also, I'd caution against characterizing events like the change in Farnese as happening in a chapter or two. Reading the series in one go, and actually following it in real-time can foul up the sense of pacing. It goes both ways actually, as it seems like Guts and Company have been out to sea for years now

 

[York]

I think what Rofl meant was that it isn't Miura's aim to just extend the series because it still sells well (like certain other mangaka who shall go unnamed). There are conflicting reports, but Miura seems to always be working on the series, and has an understanding...maybe even a contractual agreement with Hakusensha to have the release schedule as it is.

I'd almost rather think he was procrastinating, than think that three years of constant work on one side-story can't produce more than what we've seen.

As far as your points with the transformation of the series from the Golden Age until now.....I can't say an opinion is wrong, but the world in Berserk itself has undergone a transformation. Maybe that's a cop-out *shrugs*

So, I should blame the breaking down of the interstice for the overuse of cartoony art, and misdirection of story? (Sorry if I'm sounding hostile, not my intent)

Sadly I feel they're actually aiming for a younger demographic at this point. Thus the degenerating shonen tendencies.

Also, I'd caution against characterizing events like the change in Farnese as happening in a chapter or two. Reading the series in one go, and actually following it in real-time can foul up the sense of pacing.

Middle of the Conviction arc, she's pleasuring herself to the thought of torture, after having found satisfaction burning people alive her whole life. Within a few chapters of joining Guts, (a week or two later?) she's risking her life to care for Casca. I can understand changing her, but there wasn't much transition, or time for developing a complete change of character.