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Discussion What do you think of Berserk then and now?

xi0

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I honestly don't like the use of separation when it comes to Berserk -- people too often like to compare archs in the series as "Old Berserk" and "New Berserk", when the archs are an evolution of the story, not a separate entity in itself. I think that something many fans miss when reading a manga the caliber of Berserk is that this story is Epic in scope and is constantly evolving as Miura envisions it.
I completely agree with you here, but I've come to terms with this type of thing happening in long-running series. Especially one that isn't weekly like nearly all popular shounen manga are. The frequent and long breaks don't help either, but I find that going back an rereading a series is almost always necessary when reading it chapter to chapter for so long as many fans do.

I think that the anime may have caused this popular separation ism for the series, as many people that liked the anime strangely don't like the final episode, which in my opinion is closest to how the series is. Bloody battles, terror, rape, sadness -- and the battle of a man who wants to protect what he loves and avenge the events of his past -- this is what makes Berserk what it is.
You're right about this segmentation that occurs. The anime adaptation of manga are almost always a little less intense. When an anime is produced without the manga ending first, sometimes animators cut corners and flesh out smaller things in order to make a series viable in episodic form. This is why the bulk of the anime was all about the Golden Age.

I will admit that there are several characters that I miss from the previous archs, specifically Judeau and "Gatsu fan boy" Gaston. Not to mention Caska as she used to be -- a warrior woman that Gatsu not only loved but respected as a fellow warrior. What has happened to Caska over the course of the series is dramatic and sad, because of how far she has deteriorated from her former self into a infant-like nuisance. However, she has her part to play still as Gatsu goes to hell and back to put things right and return her to her former self.
I myself miss Judeau immensely, as I found him to be one of the more interesting characters who's personality was never fleshed out before he was killed. I have to applaud Miura for risking so much, and maybe too much for some readers in the events of the Eclipse.

As for other things that I miss from previous archs, it would have to be the former camaraderie between Gatsu and Griffith in the band of the hawk. This was played out so well In the Golden Age arch, and set up so beautifully the rise and fall of two men that would completely change the world for better or for worse. How Miura set these set of events up is just magical, as I myself have never really hated a villain in a story as I do Griffith, especially now as the "Hawk of Light".
There's an interesting thing going on recently that it's obvious to everyone but Guts' party, Griffith will be a hero. When he gets into that position eventually, it'll be interesting to see if history repeats itself. We do know that Guts wants revenge, but he and his party will have to go up against insane odds to get to Griffith.

I don't really see much of a difference when it comes to the bloodshed though, except that the majority of the battles have become more fantastical and otherworldly, in comparison to much of the Golden Age fights, which were typical for a series who's concepts are derived from the Dark Ages.
I think this is due to the increased element of mysticism that all started with the Behelit. We of course experienced it full-tilt during the Eclipse, but it was certainly still otherworldly, but with Puck becoming more prominent and the incorporation of the idea of other planes of reality, it's becoming much more fantastical. Faerydom became involved in the first arc after the Eclipse, Schierke and Evarella add to this. The dynamic of Skull Knight and Flora did as well. Guts is slowly becoming a monster due to the Berserker's Armor as well.

As for the current archs however, I'm greatly enjoying this new camaraderie with Gatsu and his group. The inclusion of Serpico, Farnese, Isidoro and Schierke have drastically changed how Gatsu reacts in his battles and dealings with others, which has improved the series In my opinion. The relationship between Gatsu, Schierke, Farnese and Caska is tremendously deep --as all of the girls have some connection with Gatsu (or want a connection ^_^) and the way they react to one another is very rich. Isidoro brings a level of comedy to the series alongside Puck and Evarella, while at the same time kind of putting the "Gatsu's apprentice" aspect into the character at the same time. As the series progresses It seems more and more that Gatsu is slowly becoming this beacon to people which in many ways mimics Griffith in his pre-Femto phase (only minus the "i'm going to sacrifice your lives for my dream and not care to recognize you as a real person" side that Griffith put out there).
The other side of the coin to what you express here, is many readers believe the series has become almost shounen at this point...which I could care less about as long as I'm still enthralled by it. The most interesting thing about recent events is obviously Guts losing his human side to the armor, and he finally depending on others again. It seemed unlikely after he was burned by Griffith.
 

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The other side of the coin to what you express here, is many readers believe the series has become almost shounen at this point...which I could care less about as long as I'm still enthralled by it. The most interesting thing about recent events is obviously Guts losing his human side to the armor, and he finally depending on others again. It seemed unlikely after he was burned by Griffith.
I completely agree with you on that. Though many people may claim that they believe that Berserk is on the verge of shounen, it doesn't change Berserk in my mind whatsoever. I've been a fan of the series for several years now, and my reading up to vol.33/ch.292 has only increased my love of the series. It may be true that for the purposes of making the series more identifiable with a younger Japanese audience that Miura and Studio Gaga may have decided to change the vernacular of the "party" to include more comedic or iconic-type characters to somewhat lighten the mood of the series -- which if it was done it that regard then they were a success. However, at the same time, that shouldn't imply that Berserk has in any way lost it's mature edge, because all of these iconic-type characters have well fleshed out backgrounds, and some of them -- Schierke, Farnese and Serpico specifically have backgrounds and passions that only make Berserk deeper.

I completely agree with you here, but I've come to terms with this type of thing happening in long-running series. Especially one that isn't weekly like nearly all popular shounen manga are. The frequent and long breaks don't help either, but I find that going back an rereading a series is almost always necessary when reading it chapter to chapter for so long as many fans do.
That Is unfortunately one of the only things that saddens me about this series, that It's stuck with frequent breaks and inconsistent releases. It's a shame really, but we have to give Miura credit where credits due, and understand as fans that a manga of this quality takes time, and him rushing chapters will only degrade the story and the art, which is something that really would lower it to a shounen-type. ^o^

You're right about this segmentation that occurs. The anime adaptation of manga are almost always a little less intense. When an anime is produced without the manga ending first, sometimes animators cut corners and flesh out smaller things in order to make a series viable in episodic form. This is why the bulk of the anime was all about the Golden Age.
That's very true, the failings of many an anime stem from this overeagerness to adapt a manga into anime form. It's sad, because many of of my favorite series (Berserk, Gantz, Hellsing and Samurai Deeper Kyo to name a few) have had this same problem, only to see much more success from the continuation of the manga series than any attention the anime versions may have inspired. Let's hope that Berserk will at least receive Hellsing-like attention and have high quality OVA's to re segment or revision the anime format to better suit the visual and story style of Berserk.

I myself miss Judeau immensely, as I found him to be one of the more interesting characters who's personality was never fleshed out before he was killed. I have to applaud Miura for risking so much, and maybe too much for some readers in the events of the Eclipse.
Yes, Judeau was a very interesting character who sadly never received any where near the background detail that many later characters received. However, I believe this is due more to the fact the Golden Age was really an arch that was used to flesh out the "Black Swordsman" persona, using the people that Gatsu related with and respected as a sort of sacrifice, as after the Band of the Hawk was decimated and Gatsu found himself virtually alone, it was the memory of those friends that made him stronger. Even characteristically Gatsu changed himself as an almost homage to his fallen comrades -- Adding throwing knives to his arsenal, becoming sullen and adapting a very Pippin like "man of action, less of words" attitude -- these are things that he picked up from his comrades, and they have made him growing character, which has only made the series better.

There's an interesting thing going on recently that it's obvious to everyone but Guts' party, Griffith will be a hero. When he gets into that position eventually, it'll be interesting to see if history repeats itself. We do know that Guts wants revenge, but he and his party will have to go up against insane odds to get to Griffith.
This is true, but Gatsu and crew have proven time and again that they improve to match these escalating insane odds and in the end ironically I believe that Gatsu really will be perceived as a "Demon" who ends the life of the "Savior of the world", Griffith.

Although at the same time we can try to perceive where the series Is going, I'm truly wondering how far Miura intends to take Berserk. I mean, he's been fleshing this series out since he was 22 (or possibly younger, since we don't know when he exactly started to think of making the series), and 20 years later, now 42 Is still working on the series. As he and Studio Gaga have claimed, Berserk has no end in sight, which only makes me wonder how many twists and turns the series is going to have before it actually ends.
 

xi0

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I know one thing, I don't see my admiration wavering in any way. Breaks can be dealt with by finding other series to read and watch.

I chalk the bitching by other fans to just be impatience...I can understand it though.
 

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I can say Berserk is the only manga I thoroughly enjoyed from beginning to the (temporary) end. The only thing I disliked was how Miura handled Casca's rape. I love the character of Casca, she's one of the most human, believable female characters from all the mangas I've read, and to see how Miura treated her kind of startled me.

Not the rape in itself, but the way it was shown. It just looked like any crass semi ****** fanservicy crap, like something out of a Oh Great! chapter, and somehow seemed really out of place in the sheer horror of the Eclipse. Compared to how Miura depicted the rape of the farmer's daughter at the hands of Wyald a few chapter earlier it was done in a really poor taste, to the point where the most disturbing thing in this scene for me were Gutts's screams.

Other than that, I have no problems with Berserk. Truly a masterpiece.
I didn't have any problems with the rape. It was plain and simple, Femto was gonna screw Guts' women right in front of him. It was so hard to read, watching a demon pry Gut's eyes open while bloody tears of anger flow down his face. I mean who could blame him, he must have felt so weak at that moment.
Im not all the way caught up with the series but I must say it is definitly one of the best ive ever read. Even with the addition of a few characters that lighten up the mood, Berserk still keeps its mature theme. The relationship between Guts and Griffith is one of the most interesting ive ever read about. I love this series!
 

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I have just read the entire series of beserk over the course of a couple of weeks and i have to say it is one of the best mangas i have ever read.
The character development is amazing along with the fantastic artwork and supurb action i can't believe it is only now that i have found out about it.

People have stated that the golden age arc is better than the current one, which on a certain level i have to agree as i do feel the first arc had more of a rawer edge to it as for me learning about gatts as he grew up and creating his initial life bolds with the band of the hawk and then to see him lose everything in such a dramatic way for me was just sheer writing genius! I have never hated a villian half as much as i hated griffth when he joined god hand! The complete loss of the band of the hawk was something i just didn't see coming at least not to that extent.
The newer arc is good however and i am really liking the contrasting chacters of the new group but even more i like the way Miura is showing Gats continue to mature and grow.

The only thing i slightly disappointed about which i think i read on this thread earlier is the current predicament of caska i did see as one of a extremely limited strong realistic female chacters in mangas and its is a pity what has happen to her but i guess it was needed to aid in the growth of gatts
 

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I actually watched the anime, and read starting from the chapters after the events that happened in the anime.

The transition was not so smooth for me, and I found it hard to adapt, beginning at the last parts of the anime when the behelit began to cause trouble. I thought "wtf, so it's like this?"

Although when I think about it, right from the very start of the anime there were no inhibitions on showing monsters. At that time it just looked to me like the first episode was so off. -_-

Then when I started reading the manga, the elf fairy turned up, and he was never in the anime. That totally changed the mood, and the witchcraft thing. Those chapters were really the most confusing for me, but I got used to it, and took it to heart that this is really what the manga's about, and not just the golden age.

Though my impression holds. Berserk is awesome!
 

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I actually watched the anime, and read starting from the chapters after the events that happened in the anime.

The transition was not so smooth for me, and I found it hard to adapt, beginning at the last parts of the anime when the behelit began to cause trouble. I thought "wtf, so it's like this?"

Although when I think about it, right from the very start of the anime there were no inhibitions on showing monsters. At that time it just looked to me like the first episode was so off. -_-

Then when I started reading the manga, the elf fairy turned up, and he was never in the anime. That totally changed the mood, and the witchcraft thing. Those chapters were really the most confusing for me, but I got used to it, and took it to heart that this is really what the manga's about, and not just the golden age.

Though my impression holds. Berserk is awesome!
Picking up on the manga where the anime left off Is a big mistake for people making the transition from the Anime to the Manga. You miss so much content In the Anime that they decided to cut for whatever reason....If you haven't yet, read from Vol.1, it greatly changes how people make the transition.
 

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Well, this topic is old but there's no traffic on this area so I guess no one cares if I comment. I just read the whole series over a couple of weeks for the first time, so it's interesting to think about. This will be full of spoilers since I'm assuming you've read everything to view this topic.

...
Just wanted to say that mistah radical's post about Berserk was a great analysis of the overall story and very appreciated. I enjoyed reading every word of it.

As for Griffith, he probably is a repressed homosexual - he seemed more emotionally scarred by Guts' leaving than his body was scarred by that sick little tormentor. He also seemed to blame Guts for his "fall from grace," even more than he did the king. He felt betrayed, went into self-destructive mode, and soon thereafter his dreams seemed to be all but over. His main reason for going along with the God Hand was apparently to get even with Guts, or to show that he wouldn't allow anything to get in the way of his dreams again. His rape of Casca was for the same reason.

Anyway, mistah radical helped me see the first 15 volumes in a wholly new light, so thank you. I still enjoy the second part a little better than you do I think, because I guess I'm not expecting so much widespread destruction and slaughter to the point where it affects Guts' psyche in a negative way anymore. If anything like the Eclipse happened again for Guts, I'd feel VERY miserable for him. Right now I just want Guts to act out his "part" - counter Griffith with his own defiance of fate. Though I do agree that Casca's character leaves a lot to be desired right now. But I think that should be rectified very shortly.

Picking up on the manga where the anime left off Is a big mistake for people making the transition from the Anime to the Manga. You miss so much content In the Anime that they decided to cut for whatever reason....If you haven't yet, read from Vol.1, it greatly changes how people make the transition.
Quoted for truth. I wouldn't recommend it either. Read the manga, all the way from the beginning to the end, to get the complete experience.

Also, just have to throw in my two cents' worth about Judeau - his fall was quite possibly the most heart-breaking character death scene I've ever read in any manga. For that reason possibly, I DO have to applaud Miura - it certainly marked that whole scene as EVEN more tragic, horrifying, and frightening. Which is exactly what I wanted to feel for such an apocalyptic disaster that I knew was coming. It certainly wasn't boring at all.

It definitely helped me to completely agree and sympathize with Guts when he told the demons all to "go back to hell." And I certainly wouldn't want to experience hell if it was like that, either!
 
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xi0

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Yeah, Judeau's death was an amazing scene.

"And you...only thought of me as someone useful."

That pretty much summed up the regret he had for not going after Casca. He was such a great character.
 

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it just rocks dude. i saw the anime first i dunno if it was in 98 or 99 but i had saw something i had never seen before or music or feeling for a anime i had never seen before. at that time the only anime i had saw was dbz. and after berserk i was starting to expand on the other animes and not 3 years ago i had found out that the story wasnt over and watched no lie the whole part from the last ep of the anime to what was the last chapter at that time. i was amazed and in love all over again. this is the only manga or anime i have cried for and im a tough guy. this is also what made me learn martial arts. i felt i needed to be stronger just by watching the anime years ago. i wonder how we csn start a petition and mail it to the auther miura to continuie the anime.
 

xi0

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Well if there is some sort of continuation, Miura is likely not responsible for it happening really. The slow pacing of the current episodes do hurt any chance of it being animated. It's more likely to happen after the series is over...whenever that is.
 

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As for Griffith, he probably is a repressed homosexual - he seemed more emotionally scarred by Guts' leaving than his body was scarred by that sick little tormentor. He also seemed to blame Guts for his "fall from grace," even more than he did the king. He felt betrayed, went into self-destructive mode, and soon thereafter his dreams seemed to be all but over. His main reason for going along with the God Hand was apparently to get even with Guts, or to show that he wouldn't allow anything to get in the way of his dreams again. His rape of Casca was for the same reason.
I can't really decide if Griffith is homo or not, because maybe he's not, but that he just has an ABNORMAL insecurity or some other complex for Guts.

I do agree that he raped Casca for the sake of getting back at Guts. He never really "loved" anybody but his dream and... well, Guts. :oh

[/quote]
Quoted for truth. I wouldn't recommend it either. Read the manga, all the way from the beginning to the end, to get the complete experience.[/quote]

now that you tell me that, maybe if I pull through with my thesis, I will read the whole thing. :thumbs

Well if there is some sort of continuation, Miura is likely not responsible for it happening really. The slow pacing of the current episodes do hurt any chance of it being animated. It's more likely to happen after the series is over...whenever that is.
True, there are no signs yet about the climax.
 

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I can't really decide if Griffith is homo or not, because maybe he's not, but that he just has an ABNORMAL insecurity or some other complex for Guts.

I do agree that he raped Casca for the sake of getting back at Guts. He never really "loved" anybody but his dream and... well, Guts. :oh
Quoted for truth. I wouldn't recommend it either. Read the manga, all the way from the beginning to the end, to get the complete experience.[/quote]

now that you tell me that, maybe if I pull through with my thesis, I will read the whole thing. :thumbs



True, there are no signs yet about the climax.[/QUOTE]

I think that Griffith really liked all the members from the Band of the Hawk, if he didn´t like them, he couldn´t use them for the sacrifice, it´s the same when that fat Apostole from the beginning tried to use Guts as a sacrifice and the God Hand guys told him that Guts was no good, he needed to use his daughter for the sacrifice to work.
And the reason Griffith was so upset about Guts leaving was because Guts was the only one he has seen as his equal for the entire life, the rest of the members of the Band of the Hawk were good friends who would do anything for Griffith to accomplish his dream, and Guts was the only one he can talk like is own equal.
So i think taht Griffith is not that bad person and much less Homo, he just think of himself as a superior being.
 

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I think that Griffith really liked all the members from the Band of the Hawk, if he didn´t like them, he couldn´t use them for the sacrifice, it´s the same when that fat Apostole from the beginning tried to use Guts as a sacrifice and the God Hand guys told him that Guts was no good, he needed to use his daughter for the sacrifice to work.
And the reason Griffith was so upset about Guts leaving was because Guts was the only one he has seen as his equal for the entire life, the rest of the members of the Band of the Hawk were good friends who would do anything for Griffith to accomplish his dream, and Guts was the only one he can talk like is own equal.
So i think taht Griffith is not that bad person and much less Homo, he just think of himself as a superior being.
I wouldn't say necessarily that Griffith "liked" the Band of the Hawk, less that they were all men (and woman) that completely worshiped him. The Band of Hawk were all people who's destiny was intertwined with Griffith, so in the end it was their Destiny to become Sacrifices for his Ascension.

As for the Griffith sexual orientation debate -- I think that Griffith uses and treats Sex as a tool, to further his goals or to send a message. I don't think that he has any emotional attachment in the act, and that perhaps he simply identifies Guts as his counterpart. Guts was the first person in his life that he was completely dependent upon, so maybe that would be why he has such feelings for him.
 

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I wouldn't say necessarily that Griffith "liked" the Band of the Hawk, less that they were all men (and woman) that completely worshiped him. The Band of Hawk were all people who's destiny was intertwined with Griffith, so in the end it was their Destiny to become Sacrifices for his Ascension.
That´s not true, the sacrifice has to be someone dear and part of his hearts, because after the sacrifice one looses all humanity, you can see this in page: http://www.onemanga.com/Berserk/7/29/
 

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Probably this has already been said, but I don't see the need to separate Berserk into parts. It's just the natural development of the series, I think it would be boring to keep the series unchanged for almost 300 chapters (although it happens in most manga, I don't expect it in a seinen with the quality and duration of Berserk).
So my answer would be that I find both equally interesting. And I disagree that the golden arc was more violent. It's true that the battle scenes lowered in quantity, but it was compensated with the mass scale slaughter caused by the new band of the hawk. Seeing 50 soldiers get cut in half by a 10 meter long spear is enough violence for me.

EDIT: I just realized how small is the amount of threads and posts the Berserk board has. WTF? I thought it had a larger fanbase than this. Hmmm, maybe they're all in my page www.skullknight.net ...errr, no, it's not really mine XD but it's a pretty damn good page for Berserk fans.
 
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xi0

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To be honest, I find the Golden Age Arc boring. It is just a waste of time. There is no need to make several volumes about it.

I do not really care much about the history of Guts. His comrades from the Band of the Hawk are boring to read about. Their loyalty to Griffith is foolish. They are the ones to blame for their own deaths. Their fate is sealed when they place all their hopes and dreams upon Griffith. I do not really bother to remember their names.

For me, the story of Guts has only become interesting, when Griffith used the Behelith. That is only when the story has really started.

The only interesting storyline of Berserk is the very moment when Guts has started to wage war upon the monsters. That is only when the story has become really interesting.

I am only interested in seeing how Guts will destroy all of these demons and monsters. I only want to see how Guts will be able to kill the monster once named Griffith. That is my only interest in reading Berserk.
Sheesh.....you are very harsh sometimes you know that? :oh

I for one still haven't changed my mind as far as how I felt about Berserk versus how I feel now. I just want Miura to stop browsing NicoNicoDouga and playing Idol_M@ster, AND DRAW MORE MANGA. :darn
 

xi0

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Well you're obviously into Berserk for the viscera, but IMO I think the drama is just as important.

Miura's monster designs are great though.
 

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how shallow... beserk is more then unrealistic violence.
 

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It feels a little that Berserk is becoming less... Berserk to be honest.
In the very first chapters, Gutts was so different! Totally deflective towards Puck and licking off the blood from his hands which came from his brand, absolutely thirsty for battle. He was even torturing a dying demon for no reason by puncturing it with arrows... slaying the dying count in front of his young daughter until his knife breaks... hell, what a dark guy he was! It was cooler than the current state definitly, Gutts is becoming more socialised... it's a little sad to see this happening. to be honest I hope his current group to die a terrible death so Gutts can return to his old style.
At least his change was plausible as he met those people reminding him of his old company... however, it's not as cool as it was :(

In any case I just noticed that it's definitly worth reading the first three volumes over again after having caught up with the current chapters, damn Gatts displayed an amount of badassness like it never again happens afterwards :D
"Just die then... It's so easy... Just cut your wrist with that knife then it will end. You'll be cut off from that horrible thing. Like you may be able to get to heaven... or rather go to hell so you can meet your mom and dad."
 
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