Voting Round 2 Yakusoku no Neverland vs. Vagabond

[Jammin]

I actually don't feel to strongly about this one.

In no way do I question Vagabond or Yakusoku no Neverland's greatness. Both just aren't series that spoke to me enough to leave a deep impression or motivate me and eventually I dropped both. While I lean Vagabond because I read more of that and the artwork style appealed to me I'm still not quite sure which I want vote for.

So lets settle it this way. Which brings the "romance"? You give me ships I give you my vote.

 

[Aizen]

I actually don't feel to strongly about this one.

In no way do I question Vagabond or Yakusoku no Neverland's greatness. Both just aren't series that spoke to me enough to leave a deep impression or motivate me and eventually I dropped both. While I lean Vagabond because I read more of that and the artwork style appealed to me I'm still not quite sure which I want vote for.

So lets settle it this way. Which brings the "romance"? You give me ships I give you my vote.

Well, Otsu and Musashi is a thing, and Emma and Norman are too. Neverland has made minimal progress understandably there, considering its length. Saying anything about Vagabond's would be somewhat of a spoiler. Neverlands is between kids as of now. Vagabonds is mostly about adults. Take your pick. I don't think I brought you any closer to a conclusion here sadly.

 

[Arjuna]

Well, Otsu and Musashi is a thing, and Emma and Norman are too. Neverland has made minimal progress understandably there, considering its length. Saying anything about Vagabond's would be somewhat of a spoiler. Take your pick. I don't think I brought you any closer to a conclusion here sadly.

Emma and Ray may become a thing too

 

[Aizen]

Emma and Ray may become a thing too

True, but I was talking main ones since both series have some that fans would like to happen I am sure, but may or may not (in Vagabonds case it is set in stone largely, due to the release status for the manga atm).

 

[Jammin]

These don't sound like ships, they sound like rafts. Romances listlessly afloat on river of destiny. I need more. Doesn't matter if they're canon. Give me passion. Give me fanart. Give me something.

 

[SirSamuel016]

No, the physical characteristics of an image is something that is objective. You can look at a painting and say your not feeling it, but you can't dismiss it as being drawn poorly because the level of detail is still there, and there is no arguing that. Let alone outright dismissing it as not being art, please. Thats ignorance.

Refer to @Ustegius post for the more indepth explanation.

You missed my point. There's no denying details etc. but my point is people's taste in art is subjective and no matter the detail something might have people still mightn't like it. I never said Vagabond isn't art, after all like you said it has a gallery so that says something for the appreciation for it but it's not going to be amazing to everyone. After all, just because something is in a gallery doesn't mean everyone is going to find it good. Some might even think it doesn't deserve a place there and that's how opinions differ. Saying it's ignorance etc. to dismiss something you like is pointless in the end because no matter what people like what they like and dislike what they dislike and thus form their own views from that, so saying one has to be better than the other because of x and any other views are wrong is a bit narrow-minded. Tastes differ, and that's that.

These don't sound like ships, they sound like rafts. Romances listlessly afloat on river of destiny. I need more. Doesn't matter if they're canon. Give me passion. Give me fanart. Give me something.

This is yet another reason why Shokugeki should've beaten Vagabond. It has the shippy fanart you crave Jammin! Vote TPN to get vengance from having the glorious SnS fanart robbed from it's place here!

 

[The President]

You missed my point. There's no denying details etc. but my point is people's taste in art is subjective and no matter the detail something might have people still mightn't like it. I never said Vagabond isn't art, after all like you said it has a gallery so that says something for the appreciation for it but it's not going to be amazing to everyone. After all, just because something is in a gallery doesn't mean everyone is going to find it good. Some might even think it doesn't deserve a place there and that's how opinions differ. Saying it's ignorance etc. to dismiss something you like is pointless in the end because no matter what people like what they like and dislike what they dislike and thus form their own views from that, so saying one has to be better than the other because of x and any other views are wrong is a bit narrow-minded. Tastes differ, and that's that.

And my point was that you could find certain type of art unappealing, but you cant deny its artistic quality, especially if it is at the level of Vagabonds. Its objectively brilliantly drawn art, it not being your style won't change that for the reasons ustegius mentioned. Art is something that actually has a fair bit of objectivity in it, there are ways that you can make the objectively "perfect" human form. Obviously there is still subjectivity, especially in the more abstract art, but my point stands.

 

[Brandish μ]

Is this... art salt

Ignoring the difference in art style, the art is more important to Vagabond than TPN. There are whole sequences where the art tells the story. Even one of the main characters is sustained through artwork alone (he is deaf) and is one of the most elegant characters I've seen. Putting up panels in isolation doesn't do justice to how effective the art really is. So it's a little unfair to compare TPN to Vagabond here, and it would be unfair to dismiss this as well.

TPN's art is pretty good and suitable for the manga itself, helps the overall atmosphere that's for sure. It also comes out weekly so there is less time that can be spent on it - compared to the monthly's like Vinland, OPM or Otoyomegatari which have better art imho (would say Vagabond or Berserk but we can't call them monthly's can we )

 

[Erinyes]

I voted for TpN you know.

Did you really ?

im so happy, so you start reading it hope you're enjoying !!!

@Ustegius yep they are 2 , the artist Demisu posuka is a female, she is very into dystopia, she posts an regular basis on her twitter account, and has already published an art book. its their 1st manga (she and shirai (author) he is a lot inspired by Urasawa works and Araki. He stated in an interview in early 2017 that they have started TPN 3 years before it sarted (aug 2016) . they seemingly don't intend to do any battle manga, they re more into thriller/mind games things.

here some of her art

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 10, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 10, 2017 ---

I have some walls of text to write yet, just came back home need to take a lot of coffee to relax and then to try to convince you guys !

Some Halloween TPN (check out NakaYoshi twitter link for pics sources):

here some ship for you @Jammin, enjoy

 

[Jammin]

here some ship for you @Jammin, enjoy

That's what I'm talkin' about!

Submission accepted. Vote cast for Neverland.

 

[Vici]

here some ship for you @Jammin, enjoy

Scrolls down..

Gilda x Glasses

 

[Jammin]

Scrolls down..

Gilda x Glasses

Gilda X Glasses still beats the whole lot of nothing Vagabond fans put out there.

I'm going to be honest here, the completely lack of shipping passion I got from Vagabond fan makes me reconsider whether it truly deserves it's legendary status. Because, I feel like, if people don't feel strongly about even 1 pairing. Then that series is a fraud.

 

[Erinyes]

That's what I'm talkin' about!

Submission accepted. Vote cast for Neverland.

Thxs so so so much Jammin !

@Vici but gilda pic was a present for you... just wanted to show you i can definitely supass niichan in art quests

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 11, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 11, 2017 ---

Trying to make it short and simple.

​

Part 2- Cast
- Protagonists
Ray and Norman like Emma show from the very beginning of the story some darker side, main cast unlike most of shonen seem to have some unexpected features due possibly to the lack of adult models, the only adults they met betrayed them. They definitely have some crazy side, which make theme even more interesting.

Spoiler: Ray

Spoiler: Norman

Norman case is very interesting considering there's some possibility he's dead which would be incredibly audacious for the authors to kill of one of the main cast this early, i personnaly prefer he's dead as much as i love him, but if he's not there's high probability he turns antagonist (mere asumptions of course) as he reminds a lot of Johan liebert (Monster)

- Antagonists
The main antagonist we met so far is Isabella she is very interesting considering she was a former orphan from GF that was so briliant she ended up being mama to survive. She knows very well their condition, she even

Spoiler: isabella

bore a child by insemination who happened to be Ray, but still even being his "genetic mother" doesnt prevent her for being ready to send him to death.

she's definitely a complex character who became an antogonist due to her own pains. and again it shows how much the past, the background the sufferings, can impact on some individuals. Thats a path Emma could definitevely have taken considering how close she's to what was Isabella.

there's also sonju whos for now a protagonist but may ends up being against the children and Minerva who for now seems to be an allie but whose motives are totally unknown, he definitely may not be the one we expect him to be.
So basically there's neither white or black, but rather grey characters for most of them, except maybe the younger ones, and except Musica which is genuinely kind. like Connie being an extremely gentle characters in TPN universe sounds to me like a deathflag

Part 3 - Main topics
- Tolerance
From the very 1st chapter we know that there s no ethnic barrier in the orphanage, so children have been raised without any racial prejudice. Also Demons & humans antagonism reminds a lot chimera ants vs human in HxH, demons are depicted as evil but meeting Sonju and Musica make us realize that they are basically like humans. Those children met with demons that were kinder and more attentive to them, and who didn't betray them while humans did. I think one of the possible conclusion we can draw is probably similar to Chimera's ants, human can likely in TPN universe be like or even worse than demons.

- Human condition
Human condition is one of the main aspect, one of the 1st disturbing we were introduced to, are the tattooed codes on children neck, which already hinted us there s something wrong, children are labelled as cattle/marchandise, delicacies, its all about subjection/objectified humans/slavery, its even more disturbing when we know about batteries farms, and its even worse than in other mangas like Snk or Tg because it's involving very young children. Theres also some eugnics experiments implied all along the story, with which reminds a lot Monster (Urasawa)
So again the story is Spartacus-like, kind of senslaved children trying to look for freedom to escape their inhuman fate.

Spoiler

Misc
- Horror
TPN feat some incredibly mature topics, even if it's not too graphic it's still very disturbing. People tend to think of tpn as a fake dark manga, but horror is not necessary visual, it can be implied, horror bein evocative more than graphic doesn't mean it doesnt exist, it can sometimes be even more powerful than pure gorenography. Tpn is about human and more precisely children traffic, it shares also many similitudes at least at the start with Bratherley no Basha from Samura except BnB is extremely graphic & disturbing.

Spoiler: BnB

Spoiler: Please think it over before opening spoilers tags- very disturbing stuff- at your own risk

In Bnb things are very graphic which increases a lot the shock value, but there are some other works that handle such topics like children abuse and so without showing that much sometimes without showing anything, that's for instance the case of Ima Soko ni iru Boku (anime) we know very well what's happening but we don't get to see the most disturbing things, but it still an anime tagged horror with some creepy scenes.
In Neverland tthings are quite balanced we saw from chapter 1 some visual stuff with Connie's death

Spoiler: Connie & farm

But is the manga lighter or a so called fake dark manga because we haven't seen more deaths or more graphic things ? i would say no, we know its still a manga about children abuse, anthropophagy, and so with its worst and darker side, we also get some main cast being mutilated. I think Neverland is close to Madoka magica in terms of portraying horror, it does still exist we are hinted or showed some stuff, but its somewhat "candifed" by the tale aspect of storytelling (cute characters, children, idealistic main char., sheer optimism, and art aspect).

- Writing/art
Promised Neverland contrary to Vagabond which is an historical manga, is a more like Fantasy/tale like. The word Neverland ofc reminds Peter pan, its, i would call it a kind of thriller tale, it shares some similitudes with children stories (involving demons, "oni" in Japanese) but still is incredibly mature. Thats why the art can't be compared to Vagabond, as an historical manga, Vagabond has to be very "realistic" art-wise, it s about a martial artist so it has to focus on the character gesture, actions, charism and on the sword art/battle aesthetics, while Tpn as a mind games story with very little actions, has to focus more on emphasized facial expressions to convey emotions.

- credibility
Despite being an imaginary fiction with fantastic aspects, authors try to be as much credible as possible, for instance calandar is true to real time calendar see pic above ( https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/monthly.html?year=2045&month=10&country=1 ) regarding human capacities there's no superhuman powers, everything which is introduced is plausible. For instance, there's non instant recovery afer bones breaking, Emma coudn't walk for 2 months after Isabella broke her lag, no limbs regrowing either.