Shounen Undead Unluck

[lexx]

"Fight until you run out of ammos." Kinda contrived but that was a good chapter.

The next one should be good as well.

Not only oddly contrived, but the commander speaking to Undecrease via comlink knew that Undecrease had manifested - thus the taunting about having plenty of ammo. Methinks a new party has entered the fray, somehow with knowledge of negators and manifestation.

 

[Nie Li]

Untell's an interesting character. I think they're the first Negator in this story whose ability is entirely a deficit with no possible upside.

It's even worse than Unknown's. I was complaining to myself these past weeks about Creed's being so easily exploitable and my boy Unfade not having a combat application and here comes Unknown to make me appreciate those other powers.

However, he was somehow communicating in the previous loop with some sort of technology, wasn't he? There must be some workaround.

 

[Hermit]

Interesting evolution, i always thought Unseen's ability was one of the least useful in the series. Making him be able to turn others invisible as well makes him more useful to the group
Also I NEVER expected them to get a backstory as well Holy smokes Tozuka going all out with this second loop.

 

[Nie Li]

Interesting evolution, i always thought Unseen's ability was one of the least useful in the series. Making him be able to turn others invisible as well makes him more useful to the group
Also I NEVER expected them to get a backstory as well Holy smokes Tozuka going all out with this second loop.

After how much development Void got, I think we can expect something similar for every single negator, including those from Under who barely got a name in the previous loop, and probably an extended backstory for Ruin. As a negator himself, I won't be surprised if Fuuko tries to make peace with him as well.

 

[lexx]

Kinda figured that unseen would be able to do more than just make himself invisible when his own eyes were closed. The science department will probably hook up some cybernetic eyes directly to his optic nerve in order to make his ability voluntary without blinding him as the demerit.

 

[Demonspeed]

Interesting evolution, i always thought Unseen's ability was one of the least useful in the series. Making him be able to turn others invisible as well makes him more useful to the group
Also I NEVER expected them to get a backstory as well Holy smokes Tozuka going all out with this second loop.

Negator abilities are obviously not equal but as Andy said it's mostly about experience and imagination.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 13, 2023, Original Post Date: Mar 8, 2023 ---

The fight is over already? Plus Billy understood the situation really quickly. Looks like this arc will end fast once they get disc.

 

[Hermit]

Good chapter.

Feel like Billy will lose on purpose though. He's far too strong for Fuuko currently. He was actually manhandling three negators by himself (Despite being blind), thats extremely badass

 

[Nie Li]

Good chapter.

Feel like Billy will lose on purpose though. He's far too strong for Fuuko currently. He was actually manhandling three negators by himself (Despite being blind), thats extremely badass

The man isn't even a negator yet nor has any knowledge about powers being a thing.

The only shame is that unless he somehow evolves his interpretation of unfairness he won't be getting any stronger than this, without any negator hating him or seeing him as an enemy.

 

[Demonspeed]

Fuuko should make things less complicated. She talks as if everyone had read the spoilers...

 

[lexx]

I think Billy's already a negator but hasn't figured out how to use his abilities.
It's not realistic (or fair?) that his revolver destroyed the finger's of Unavoidable's gauntlet, crafted by Unbreakable.

I just had a thought about "Remember". What if Fuuko applied it to the entire goddamned planet? Other than the "spoiler alert" of all of humanity simultaneously knowing every previous loop's surprises, betrayals, etc, you'd also have a situation where all of humanity that lived to see Ragnarok's last 20 cycles might be galvanized to fight God. So not just the Union but ALL NEGATORS EVERYWHERE. Well except for the fanatic apocalypse maniacs like Unruin.

 

[Hermit]

Still not sure how I feel about Billy being secretly good this whole time (In the previous loop). I think he was initially meant to be evil, but then the author decided to scrap the idea when he realized he couldn't write any of the other Under members except Rip with realistic motivations to be evil. So now all these Billy flashbacks feel somewhat forced and hamfisted.
Great Fuuko characterization though. Kinda pissed at how much Andy took away from her characterization last loop. Genuinely glad he isn't there this time.

 

[Nie Li]

Still not sure how I feel about Billy being secretly good this whole time (In the previous loop). I think he was initially meant to be evil, but then the author decided to scrap the idea when he realized he couldn't write any of the other Under members except Rip with realistic motivations to be evil. So now all these Billy flashbacks feel somewhat forced and hamfisted.
Great Fuuko characterization though. Kinda pissed at how much Andy took away from her characterization last loop. Genuinely glad he isn't there this time.

Really? That's interesting, we feel opposite about Billy's stuff. This is only my perception, but I always thought something was off about his betrayal; mostly how he started copying some powers at that moment but not all (Unluck) and the manga wouldn't explain why or how he was copying them and why not earlier, and also his plot with Tatiana, so the "good guy with ulterior motives" reveal kind of felt anticipated to me.

What does bother me a bit about him is stuff like that ricochet shot he got into Creed's gatling. He "sees" better than Daredevil with no explanation. That goes well beyond skill.

Anyway, I'm happy his Unfair got reinterpreted. He was either not going to have Unfair now (like Fuuko suggested, they could have accidentally prevented his abilities manifesting) or he was going to be just as weak by being friendly with all 20+ future Union negators. With his current version of Unfair he'll have most of their powers at his disposal and become stronger than he was in the previous loop.

That the powers depend on personal interpretation and can be as wide or as resctricted as the wielder believes them to be is my favorite part of this manga. It solved the many complaints I used to have before that concept was introduced regarding how Fuuko's strokes of unluck varied between being "more lethal", "more convenient for Fuuko", or even "more potentially lethal... but ultimately convenient for the victim". However... in Billy's case, since the condition for copying powers can vary so widely, it's pretty much like not having a condition.

 

[Hermit]

Really? That's interesting, we feel opposite about Billy's stuff. This is only my perception, but I always thought something was off about his betrayal; mostly how he started copying some powers at that moment but not all (Unluck) and the manga wouldn't explain why or how he was copying them and why not earlier, and also his plot with Tatiana, so the "good guy with ulterior motives" reveal kind of felt anticipated to me.

I have no issue with his betrayal, my biggest issue was making him the leader of Under. In fact this latest chapter kind of makes the whole Under thing look weird in hindsight. Billy believes in the strong have to protect the weak, shouldering everything by himself, it makes no sense that he is the leader of an organization of such strong people. In fact his whole reasoning for betraying Union and leaving them behind is because he wanted their abilities and didn't think they were strong enough to fight god, which he wanted to do himself. So why go ahead and make an equally strong and important group? Unless he thinks that the Under members are expendable and doesn't care for them. Which again...contradicts his personality that we've seen in recent chapters.
Not sure if im making sense. I just feel like his character would be better if he was a sole negator.

That the powers depend on personal interpretation and can be as wide or as resctricted as the wielder believes them to be is my favorite part of this manga. It solved the many complaints I used to have before that concept was introduced regarding how Fuuko's strokes of unluck varied between being "more lethal", "more convinient for Fuuko", or even "more potentially lethal... but ultimately convinient for the victim". However... in Billy's case, since the condition for copying powers can vary so widely, it's pretty much like not having a condition.

Lmao, I remember our back and forths on this Fuuko unluck issue within this same thread Kinda awesome how the manga has lasted so long since then, this second loop is similar to the first chapters of the series.

 

[Nie Li]

I have no issue with his betrayal, my biggest issue was making him the leader of Under. In fact this latest chapter kind of makes the whole Under thing look weird in hindsight. Billy believes in the strong have to protect the weak, shouldering everything by himself, it makes no sense that he is the leader of an organization of such strong people. In fact his whole reasoning for betraying Union and leaving them behind is because he wanted their abilities and didn't think they were strong enough to fight god, which he wanted to do himself. So why go ahead and make an equally strong and important group? Unless he thinks that the Under members are expendable and doesn't care for them. Which again...contradicts his personality that we've seen in recent chapters.
Not sure if im making sense. I just feel like his character would be better if he was a sole negator.

I got you now, I agree it's not written perfectly, but I think I understand what the author was going for and I like the concept. Let's see if I can explain it away.

If I understand Billy correctly... this chapter implied he saw Union's members as mentally weak (because they were too good hearted and trusting, on top of too young), and not weak as in being necessarily weak in a fight (he certainly respected Juiz and Andy/Victor for sure). Kind of like "not up to the task of doing what must be done". Going by his perception, it makes sense that he would respect other veterans like Creed and Tella to joing the real group as strong-willed individuals who can shoulder the real responsibilities while the rest just gets protected. I think the reason why he needed a team and couldn't go fully alone or just with those two is... because to fight God Billy needed both the table and to fill the seats that Juiz had created for it? Was it ever stated that the seats must all be occupied? I can't remember but it would make sense.

What doesn't make sense is that Billy would invite guys like the invisible guy to Under, unless he really invited that one to be expendable filler. I think he had become a low life criminal in the original loop, right? He doesn't fit the "extreme determination" criteria but he does fit the fodder criminal criteria.

Well, anyway, what has changed now is his perception of strength. He got pretty much talked no jutsu into acknowledging the bonds and trust others put on Fuuko is another form of strength.

Lmao, I remember our back and forths on this Fuuko unluck issue within this same thread Kinda awesome how the manga has lasted so long since then, this second loop is similar to the first chapters of the series.

I haven't been active on the thread since my complaining days, glad you remember them, but I'm enjoying this loop a lot. Loved how they are exploring every character, from "nobodies" like Void and Unseen to "Aizens" like Billy.

The only one I feel is getting neglected is Yusai. I still don't understand the rules to Undraw and that bothers me.

And, well, Feng too, but we'll get that on Shen's arc.

 

[Hermit]

What doesn't make sense is that Billy would invite guys like the invisible guy to Under, unless he really invited that one to be expendable filler. I think he had become a low life criminal in the original loop, right? He doesn't fit the "extreme determination" criteria but he does fit the fodder criminal criteria.

He had also sent Rip and Latla to recruit Chikara in the auction arc, and we've seen Chikara is nothing like the Under members
But yep, Billy is a solid character. Honestly his redemption has been handled well, it's just hard to look past the Under background. I liked the backstory we got from him this chapter about his daughter and wife, that felt more like how his character was always meant to be.

I haven't been active on the thread since my complaining days, glad you remember them, but I'm enjoying this loop a lot. Loved how they are exploring every character, from "nobodies" like Void and Unseen to "Aizens" like Billy.

That Void backstory is still my favorite section of this new loop. I honestly didn't expect him to even be remembered by the author, he was such a throwaway character. But Fuuko fighting with him Beautiful writing.

The only one I feel is getting neglected is Yusai. I still don't understand the rules to Undraw and that bothers me.

We havent seen their backstory yet iirc? Or we did and I forgot?

 

[lexx]

I’m unclear on the new activation conditions for unfair. Does Billy get the ability if he recognizes the strength of the negator, or does he get it if the negator recognizes Billy’s strength?

The particular list of three negation abilities he unconsciously manifested during his duel with Fuuko were only the ones best suited to the duel, so it could be either case.

 

[Nie Li]

We havent seen their backstory yet iirc? Or we did and I forgot?

I guess... not. Okay, Unseen had his moment chapters after being recruited so the same can still happen to Yusai. It's just that Yusai is already shining strength-wise so it feels a bit overdue to me.

I’m unclear on the new activation conditions for unfair. Does Billy get the ability if he recognizes the strength of the negator, or does he get it if the negator recognizes Billy’s strength?

The particular list of three negation abilities he unconsciously manifested during his duel with Fuuko were only the ones best suited to the duel, so it could be either case.

Going by the text and context it now depends on Billy's perception of the person.

Unseen would have also been best suited to duel Fuuko now (and perfect for Billy) but he has no respect for the person or power either.

 

[Demonspeed]

??? Billy's daughter is Lucy i.e Unhealthy?

 

[Nie Li]

??? Billy's daughter is Lucy i.e Unhealthy?

She's blonde and has a snot but her name is Betty and she's supposed to be dead (at least she was in the previous loop). I don't think it's her.

 

[Hermit]

Phil actually getting an arc.....every week I'm genuinely blown away by how good the writing has been in this second loop.