Discussion About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

[uberfayt]

So about what happens to aura after the death of its owner, now I arrived to a definite conclusion. Before stating it, let me first tell you about how I used to view this matter.
I always thought that in most cases aura just fades away after death (based on the fact that it is defined as life energy). Moreover, I believed that in some exceptional cases the aura did remain on the corpse, and in some even rarer cases that aura could get stronger. This is according to what Phinx says:

​

Now, my new conclusion is that aura always remains on the corpse of the deceased, and does not entirely fade away. Then, either it gets stronger or it stays the same. The former is what is known as "nen getting stronger after death".

What lead me to this conclusion are some events which transpired during the chimera ants arc:

• Meruem's ability allows him to get stronger by consuming a nen user' aura. Well the user is obviously dead while being eaten, but his aura is still there and gets absorbed by the King of ants.
• The fact that even after getting turned into minced meat, The queen (and eventually Merumem who was inside her) could get a taste of the aura of Pokkle.
• Eventhough Kaito was dead, Knuckle still needed to seal his nen away. This means that his aura still remained on his corpse.
• Ikalgo can enter corpes of the dead to control them, and even use their nen ability. This at least means that a trace of the dead body's aura remains, because it has records of the ability itself.

These are not definite proofs, but I'm convinced aura does remain after death, although it doesn't go well with the fact that it is life energy...

 

[NenMaster]

So about what happens to aura after the death of its owner, now I arrived to a definite conclusion. Before stating it, let me first tell you about how I used to view this matter.
I always thought that in most cases aura just fades away after death (based on the fact that it is defined as life energy). Moreover, I believed that in some exceptional cases the aura did remain on the corpse, and in some even rarer cases that aura could get stronger. This is according to what Phinx says:

​

Now, my new conclusion is that aura always remains on the corpse of the deceased, and does not entirely fade away. Then, either it gets stronger or it stays the same. The former is what is known as "nen getting stronger after death".

What lead me to this conclusion are some events which transpired during the chimera ants arc:

• Meruem's ability allows him to get stronger by consuming a nen user' aura. Well the user is obviously dead while being eaten, but his aura is still there and gets absorbed by the King of ants.
• The fact that even after getting turned into minced meat, The queen (and eventually Merumem who was inside her) could get a taste of the aura of Pokkle.
• Eventhough Kaito was dead, Knuckle still needed to seal his nen away. This means that his aura still remained on his corpse.
• Ikalgo can enter corpes of the dead to control them, and even use their nen ability. This at least means that a trace of the dead body's aura remains, because it has records of the ability itself.

These are not definite proofs, but I'm convinced aura does remain after death, although it doesn't go well with the fact that it is life energy...

Yeah this is sorta what I thought, except I also think that the person's Nen can exist and become stronger outside of someone's body after death too. For instance the troupe was scared of the judgement chain becoming stronger after Kurapika potentially dies, this aura has nothing to with Kurapika's main body of Aura otherwise we could assume him just using Zetsu would release the judgement chain.
The pot that was said to be made by the first King of Kakin strikes me as something that could fall into this category too if he did infact make it. He created the pot with his Nen, and when he died it became incredibly powerful.

There are alot of Buddhist ideas in HxH and Nen is kind of like the soul in Budhism, when a person dies their life energy never really leaves the universe unless they attain 'Nirvirna' on earth and depending what kind of life they led they are reborn as different life forms, a never ending cycle based on karma. Although it seemed pointless to some people, Koala's speech, and Kite's rebirth signified Togashi's playing with this idea, what is the soul? And 'what' is Nen? I think we will find out in the truth in the DC when we finally get there.

 

[uberfayt]

Yeah this is sorta what I thought, except I also think that the person's Nen can exist and become stronger outside of someone's body after death too. For instance the troupe was scared of the judgement chain becoming stronger after Kurapika potentially dies, this aura has nothing to with Kurapika's main body of Aura otherwise we could assume him just using Zetsu would release the judgement chain.
The pot that was said to be made by the first King of Kakin strikes me as something that could fall into this category too if he did infact make it. He created the pot with his Nen, and when he died it became incredibly powerful.

Yes I agree. Usually the aura targets other people when it becomes stronger, precisely because it is animated by a strong desire and emotion. However if the aura didn't become stronger, then I believe it just stays on its user's corpse.

Yeah also feel like the DC should hold the answers to many questions about nen, you know in those kind of ruins guarded by the weapon Buron.

 

[Demonspeed]

I disagree. I don't think a corpse has aura. Nen affects the mind and body, Nen users live longer etc. Recently we even learned that there are more physical changes and stuff. Obviously eating a Nen user would be better. A corpse can't produce aura unless said aura is strengthened after death. There is no life force in it. The queen and Meruem were not eating aura. Aura affected the Nen users's bodies this way and Meruem is able to add their aura to his own when he eats them, that's the condition. Meruem can't eat aura itself.

Kaito was able to use his Nen via Pitou's Manipulation ability which is "to control living and non-living things". For Manipulators the people/objects Manipulators are a medium through they can use their powers. Ikalgo's case is not really different.

 

[uberfayt]

Shouldn't conjuration based visible to naked eye?. I don't know, I just assumed he concealed it with In

Not necessarily. We had many instances of invisible conjured things/beasts, and not necessarily hidden with In. This should not be a surprise since a conjurer can just make its item with the added rule: "[Item] is invisible to non nen users" and compensate with some crazy ass limitation.

A good example of this is the princes' nen beasts, Rihan's predator, Ushohi's mosquito, Pitou's puppets etc...

I honestly thought Knuckle was an Enhancer or Emitter because of the range plus the Aura transfer. I don't see how it's Conjuration. Can Potclean be seen by everyone?

We don't really know as there was never an instance of a non-nen user nearby when Potclean was out, but my guess would no.

Him having that crazy range as conjurer is IMO counter balanced with all the trouble he has to go through to finally put his target into forced Zetsu (I mean, Kurapika can achieve the same result by just sucking the aura of his target with his index chain).

The "aura transfer" would certainly make more sense as an Emitter, but that depends if the user takes from their own aura and gives it to the target via emission. I think Potclean's "lending" and "paying back" of aura works more like Morena's ability, in the sense that the aura increase/decrease in the target is due to the ability itself and is intrinsic to the target, meaning it doesn't come from an external source of aura.

Also, in Knucle's case since the target has to pay back their debt, it makes more sense to let the ability take care of "the transfer" rather than doing it with emission (this avoids technical issues like the target not knowing how to emit aura).

 

[Uriel]

Let's remember that the actual difference between conjuration and emission is that conjuration is actual physical material while emission is just nen-made.

The conditions that you do before that (like invisibility) are most likely a Transmutation effect (Although IIRC Meleoron is specialist)

 

[Demonspeed]

Let's remember that the actual difference between conjuration and emission is that conjuration is actual physical material while emission is just nen-made.

The conditions that you do before that (like invisibility) are most likely a Transmutation effect (Although IIRC Meleoron is specialist)

Is he though? We need to rethink about a lot if things. Even conjured items can become invisible with In.

 

[Uriel]

Is he though? We need to rethink about a lot if things. Even conjured items can become invisible with In.

Well, that's true, with the latest image of Hatsu we could be very easily mistaken. I hope the exhibition clarifies some of our doubts about Nen. In, as I understand it, it's the ability to make your aura subtle.


In my mind, when using In with a conjured object what you would achieve is hiding the aura signature on it...But the object itself will still be there. i.e: I conjure a sword, and that sword seems to be a normal one as you cannot see the aura of it.

 

[uberfayt]

The conditions that you do before that (like invisibility) are most likely a Transmutation effect (Although IIRC Meleoron is specialist)

This seems very unlikely to me.

Just recently Kurapika pretty much confirmed that conjured objects can be hidden via a rule or condition. I'm talking about when he explained that the princes' nen beasts are conjured and require a tremendous amount of aura to stay hidden from normal people and princes. This pretty much implies that there is a condition imposed on them.

 

[XXGenesis]

Well, that's true, with the latest image of Hatsu we could be very easily mistaken. I hope the exhibition clarifies some of our doubts about Nen. In, as I understand it, it's the ability to make your aura subtle.


In my mind, when using In with a conjured object what you would achieve is hiding the aura signature on it...But the object itself will still be there. i.e: I conjure a sword, and that sword seems to be a normal one as you cannot see the aura of it.

A Conjured items are still nen even if it has physical form…Ex. Kurapika’s Chains.

They are conjured chains, They are visible to non-nen users. Kurapicka used IN on his Jail chain vs Uvo, & wrapped Uvo in it without his knowledge…
Uvo didn’t use GYO on his eyes because he was outwitted. But if he did he would have saw it coming..

 

[Uriel]

ns, They are visible to non-nen users. Kurapicka used IN on his Jail chain vs Uvo, & wrapped Uvo in it without his knowledge…
Uvo didn’t use GYO on his eyes because he was outwitted. But if he did he would have saw it coming..

Exactly, although I would not take that fight as an example as Togashi evolved Nen a lot.

Nowadays you wouldn't have any experienced fighter not using Gyo at all times.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 29, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 29, 2022 ---

Just recently Kurapika pretty much confirmed that conjured objects can be hidden via a rule or condition. I'm talking about when he explained that the princes' nen beasts are conjured and require a tremendous amount of aura to stay hidden from normal people and princes. This pretty much implies that there is a condition imposed on them.

Imposing a condition, as I understand it, helps a technique to have special effects...but those effects are still part of a category. If you would like to teleport, you will need Emission. You can impose a condition on your technique to allow you to do that but the actual effect belongs to that category. Not sure If I'm explaining here.

 

[Tavore]

So if I'm getting this right hybrids like Machi can master both of there Nen categories to a 100%?

 

[Uriel]

So if I'm getting this right hybrids like Machi can master both of there Nen categories to a 100%?

I'm questioning myself the same.

It could be that or that their techniques fall into that. I'm leaning towards the first option though, if it were technique per se some of them would be multiple-hatsus.

Maybe your aura has an inclination for one but you "grow" into the other. How life experiences are taken into account with this?

 

[uberfayt]

Imposing a condition, as I understand it, helps a technique to have special effects...but those effects are still part of a category. If you would like to teleport, you will need Emission. You can impose a condition on your technique to allow you to do that but the actual effect belongs to that category. Not sure If I'm explaining here.

It's true in most cases, like with Kurapika's chains. But it still boils down to the same: you can infuse a conjured item with a special ability (regardless of which category it falls under) as long as you balance it out with an adequate restriction. That's how I see it in most cases.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 29, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 29, 2022 ---

So if I'm getting this right hybrids like Machi can master both of there Nen categories to a 100%?

Who knows. Though, my guess is you can only maximize the category you found out through water divination (regardless of where you stand on the nen spectrum).

 

[Uriel]

It's true in most cases, like with Kurapika's chains. But it still boils down to the same: you can infuse a conjured item with a special ability (regardless of which category it falls under) as long as you balance it out with an adequate restriction. That's how I see it in most cases.

LOL we're saying the same then.

I'm just saying that invisibility, as a technique, feels like something in the Transmutation category. You can achieve the same effect in other ways (Like conditions or specialization)


I say this because I don't think that applying In to things is making those stuff invisible, just the aura around the object is very hard to detect unless you use Gyo.

 

[Demonspeed]

So if I'm getting this right hybrids like Machi can master both of there Nen categories to a 100%?

I don't think so. You can't master two categories at 100% but they might change categories later in life depending on what happens?

 

[XXGenesis]

Exactly, although I would not take that fight as an example as Togashi evolved Nen a lot.

Nowadays you wouldn't have any experienced fighter not using Gyo at all times.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 29, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 29, 2022 ---

Imposing a condition, as I understand it, helps a technique to have special effects...but those effects are still part of a category. If you would like to teleport, you will need Emission. You can impose a condition on your technique to allow you to do that but the actual effect belongs to that category. Not sure If I'm explaining here.

No that fight wasn’t an advanced/Evolved Nen fight. In comparison to what we are seeing now.

The fight’s outcome was largely due to the psychological misstep Kurapicka made Uvo assume because of his haxx hatsu…..Not because Uvo is dumb. He was tricked into thinking he didn’t need to use it.

IN does make stuff invisible as Kurapicka did with his chain….Of course there needs to be a counter so GYO is the counter to IN.

But if you are talking about undetectable…

The Ability that is killing People around Prince Woble , is conditioned to be invisible. I believe that is a Conjuration ability..

IN does make stuff invisible. It’s just detectable to GYO. For nen to be truly invisible a condition & restrictions must be set.

 

[Tavore]

I don't think so. You can't master two categories at 100% but they might change categories later in life depending on what happens?

Hopefully we'll see in this arc. Makes me think Morena or one of Nasbui legitimate children might have a duo Nen categories.

 

[Aeneas]

Do you know the meaning of the red dots? I don't want to say what I think because I think I'm wrong.

From VeraciousCake's translation:

About Nen users placed right 'in between' two Types

- Everyone is born with one fixed Nen type. However, there exist Nen users who, in terms of talent, are placed right in between [their innate Type] and another Type. These users can efficiently learn/pick up both Types of Nen.
- By honing their skills exclusively on their original Type over a long period of time, one can relatively easily develop more aptitude toward their innate Type.
- One's placement within the scope of the Type they belong to may change depending on their training method/intensity, living environment, changes to their mind/body, and other factors.

 

[Demonspeed]

So interesting!

So people in the middle like Killua, Machi, Franklin etc can learn the other Category they are good with just as quickly as their main one but since it's secondary it won't be as good. At least it still means that you can only become a Specialist later in life.

Great, Excellent, Genius and Ultimate are the ratings for their skill level but it's specifically related to their Hatsu. Not Aura Volume, control etc.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 30, 2022, Original Post Date: Oct 30, 2022 ---

Focusing only on your type may allow you to get more skilled faster but since the conditions to reach the Ultimate level vary iI understand why Biscuit said the ideal training method is the bell curve. And she reached it.

EDIT: Or the last paragraph only applies to Specialists?

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 31, 2022 ---

Reading these notes it seems that Shapeshifting is considered Transmutation in general so it doesn't affect just the properties of the Aura? I always thought it was a Manipulator thing. Since they can control bodies. Pouf and Illumi are able to do things like this too for example.

I still need to reconsider a lot of things but with Hanzo being confirmed a Transmuter, Knuckle being a Conjurer isn't that strange. I was confused by Hanzo's ability to make his clone intangible but it works well with Transmutation and Conjuration, especially with that reveal that he is good at both.

Also curious about the different ways to create Nen Creatures/Beasts.