Discussion About Aura Combat & How Nen Works

[uberfayt]

I would agree on most parts, with the exception of this " What you are suggesting here would be like saying you manipulated nen to make an object stronger... which is not manipulation but rather enhancement. ".
In the wiki, if they're correct, states "Manipulators are also the Nen users who can pour the most aura into an object" and is supported by this whole issue.
http://mangafox.me/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v09/c082/1.html

However, on different issues, "http://mangafox.me/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v15/c145/1.html" It clearly is an enhancer's trait.

This is mainly just for me(confused), and will try to clarify it for the sake of readers who might find it useful.
So based on these, I guess it's safe to say... I'm still confused, little help here?

Wiki intended to say that out of all nen users who would pour a lot of aura in some objects, the majority would be manipulators, because of how their category works, but they didn't phrase it very well IMO. Let me try to clear any confusion:

We know that almost all manipulators rely on some object for their hatsu. There are cases where the objects are controlled directly (like Guido's tops) or used as a medium to control something else (illumi's needles). Now in both cases, the nen user has to put some percentage of his aura into the object to achieve some degree of control on it, and the more aura there is the more effective it will be. However this doesn't mean at all that manipulators have more aura than other nen users.
Now here is where it'll get interesting: the object shrouded with aura will also be reinforced !. Here is an example to illustrate the actual difference :

Nen user A is an enhancer, nen user B is a manipulator. Both of them want to fight by controlling a real chain. A shrouds the chain with some amount of his aura, the chain becomes very tough and powerful, but his control over the chain is sloppy. B pours the same amount of aura into the chain, it becomes less powerful than A's, but he can controll it with ease and very well.

So, are we all in agreement that it takes Transmutation to Shape the Gorillas, 13 demons, and HK? and that to actually "Separate" the shaped nens is under emission? Because if you look at it, they are just basic nen manipulation/techniques, meaning they are not enhanced by conditions, just the mastery of different categories.

No we are not in agreement. It should be an advanced aspect of Emission which is used for those abilities. As Demonspeed and Shionoro said, Transmutation is not just for shaping aura, but to give it the property of something else (substance, item, animal etc...). Also if we take my "dragon" analogy, Transmutation hatsu tends to be transparent like Zeno's dragon, while beasts created through Emission would look like Shenron, i.e. lifelike and with colors.

 

[howdydodah]

Which aspect of Emission exactly does it allow to shape nen? Transmutation can shape nen and imbue properties at the same time or just shape it without actually transmuting properties all together as we saw Gon practice making a zero/circle.

Transmutation and Conjuration are consistent with shaping. Just because we see emitters summoning puppets automatically makes their hatsus completely just emitter based.

 

[uberfayt]

Which aspect of Emission exactly does it allow to shape nen?

This is what we were trying discuss for the past few days, because we don't know which aspect exactly. But the hints and feats involving nen-beasts we have seen so far in the manga point strongly towards either Emission or Conjuration, rather than Transmutation.

The problem here is that you are trying to pass your own conception and interpretations of nen categories as actual facts. That's were we disagree, cuz Togashi left most aspects of the nen system open or unprecise, so the best we can do is give our opinions and speculate.

 

[howdydodah]

"The problem here is that you are trying to pass your own conception and interpretations of nen categories as actual facts. "
When did this happen? just because I'm confident with my assumption doesn't stop it from being an assumption.

They specifically state shaping an aura is a feat of transmutation and creating real world objects conjuration, where does it say emission has this aspect?

Ok let's try to break this down even more.

Nen Category = Talent
The actual technique = Ren Hatsu Zetsu and Ten

http://mangafox.me/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v15/c148/2.html
in this link, as you can see, it doesn't call "maintaining the aura" emission she calls it ten and ren, it's the actual technique.
Just like the skill of drawing is under the category arts, so is the skill and effeciency of ten and ren under under emission if nen is actually separated from the body.

 

[uberfayt]

When did this happen? just because I'm confident with my assumption doesn't stop it from being an assumption.

Then no problem. So please make your statements look like actual assumptions by using words like "probably" or "I think...", otherwise people might get the wrong idea ^^

http://mangafox.me/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v15/c148/2.html
in this link, as you can see, it doesn't call "maintaining the aura" emission she calls it ten and ren, it's the actual technique.
Just like the skill of drawing is under the category arts, so is the skill and effeciency of ten and ren under under emission if nen is actually separated from the body.

I know about this, and I agree. The problem at hand is that nen-beasts do not look like a product of Transmutation. Even If we suppose that to shape nen beasts we need Transmutation (and mind you I have no problem with that), then how do you give it that solid image, or colors if you prefer?

Not by conjuration, otherwise normal people will be able to see it. So we have concluded (before) that there could be either a new technique/concept involved, or it is an advanced aspect of Emission in the sense that you project your mental image of the beast within the aura. This latter fact is backed in this scene, where Biske is talking about the beast disintegrating.

However, eventhough that advanced aspect of giving its image to a nen-beats could be due to transmutation, it goes against the fact that Gorein or Lazor are Emitters, since their affinity with transmutation is not that high.

 

[kkck]

@kkck I'm not too sure if HK is separate from Netero...

I would agree on most parts, with the exception of this " What you are suggesting here would be like saying you manipulated nen to make an object stronger... which is not manipulation but rather enhancement. ".
In the wiki, if they're correct, states "Manipulators are also the Nen users who can pour the most aura into an object" and is supported by this whole issue.
http://mangafox.me/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v09/c082/1.html

However, on different issues, "http://mangafox.me/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v15/c145/1.html" It clearly is an enhancer's trait.

This is mainly just for me(confused), and will try to clarify it for the sake of readers who might find it useful.
So based on these, I guess it's safe to say... I'm still confused, little help here?

I'll just throw this one, might help. Enhancer's enhances objects, manipulators put high degree of aura into an object so that they're control is maximized and not necessarily to enhance it.
Basically,,, Manipulators have higher Aura distribution potential than Enhancers, but is limited to controlling it, and would still be limited by 60% in terms of reinforcing the said object?

So, are we all in agreement that it takes Transmutation to Shape the Gorillas, 13 demons, and HK? and that to actually "Separate" the shaped nens is under emission? Because if you look at it, they are just basic nen manipulation/techniques, meaning they are not enhanced by conditions, just the mastery of different categories.

I still stand by Netero having achieved specialist though, he's just too fast it's impossible to do it without conditions like Killua's. Here he basically just trained and suddenly got to a point where everything is in slowmo.

The alternative would be that there is something that directly connects netero to kannon however the manga never evidenced that IIRC.

I am guessing it is the purpose that is different as you suggesting. enhancers don't usually need their aura to independently stick to whatever they are using after all.

Netero is fast though I don't think it is his speed that makes his nen special. It is what makes his nen deadly of course but nen wise there are other details that make it odd. Mainly that it does not seem to have anything that makes it reinforcement. On top of that it would need at least 2 or 3 nen categories to work on its own, none of which is enhancement and on top of that perhaps the most unusual bit is the sheer damage output it has.Normal nen users consume aura merely by standing with their ren on. Moving and such things consumes even more. We saw that much in detail when knuckle fought gon. No amount of nen netero can possibly have justifies kannon. Netero threw literally hundreds of thousands of punches with each one being capable of leaving a crater on the ground. Netero using 1 unit of nen for each attack would still suggest him having a much greater amount of nen than what would make sense.

 

[howdydodah]

Then no problem. So please make your statements look like actual assumptions by using words like "probably" or "I think...", otherwise people might get the wrong idea ^^



I know about this, and I agree. The problem at hand is that nen-beasts do not look like a product of Transmutation. Even If we suppose that to shape nen beasts we need Transmutation (and mind you I have no problem with that), then how do you give it that solid image, or colors if you prefer?

Not by conjuration, otherwise normal people will be able to see it. So we have concluded (before) that there could be either a new technique/concept involved, or it is an advanced aspect of Emission in the sense that you project your mental image of the beast within the aura. This latter fact is backed in this scene, where Biske is talking about the beast disintegrating.

However, eventhough that advanced aspect of giving its image to a nen-beats could be due to transmutation, it goes against the fact that Gorein or Lazor are Emitters, since their affinity with transmutation is not that high.

I too thought transmuted aura should only look somewhat intangible, but nowhere did it say that transmuted energy shouldn't have color, Nonetheless as I've previously stated, it must be just for "aesthetics" for the vieweres(us) eyes.
To the characters it should look like intangible ghost like nen beasts, but to us it should look normal, coz there's just no appeal for an intangible gorilla(maybe).

Or since by definition, transmuters can transmute properties to nen, color is a property, it shouldn't be a problem.

Zeno is a transmuter with a profeciency of emission(40). It depends on the character, Gureino might have a love for apes, that's why it's represented in his nen. To break it down, it doesn't require much of transmutation since the gorilla is just a shape, he might have mastered creating the shape but didn't add any other properties to it except color maybe. So the power still relies in his emission. My first assumption was conjuration, because it had all the qualities of a conjured object, but his last gorilla disappeared when he was hit by the ball and got ko'd. There's nothing left but transmuted shape and colors.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 1, 2017, Original Post Date: Aug 1, 2017 ---

The alternative would be that there is something that directly connects netero to kannon however the manga never evidenced that IIRC.

I am guessing it is the purpose that is different as you suggesting. enhancers don't usually need their aura to independently stick to whatever they are using after all.

Netero is fast though I don't think it is his speed that makes his nen special. It is what makes his nen deadly of course but nen wise there are other details that make it odd. Mainly that it does not seem to have anything that makes it reinforcement. On top of that it would need at least 2 or 3 nen categories to work on its own, none of which is enhancement and on top of that perhaps the most unusual bit is the sheer damage output it has.Normal nen users consume aura merely by standing with their ren on. Moving and such things consumes even more. We saw that much in detail when knuckle fought gon. No amount of nen netero can possibly have justifies kannon. Netero threw literally hundreds of thousands of punches with each one being capable of leaving a crater on the ground. Netero using 1 unit of nen for each attack would still suggest him having a much greater amount of nen than what would make sense.

I agree, the first thing that made me question the HK, was that it never was a reinforcement hatsu. I even thought it was stupid, and just have no reason at all for him to get that kind of hatsu. 3 categories that aren't his main category is just a bad move, unless you count the speed factor.

". No amount of nen netero can possibly have justifies kannon. "
It might be his efficiency at work, small movements great power that kind of stuff. He's mastered his technique so much that it requires little energy.
"the most unusual bit is the sheer damage output it has"
As Genesis stated, it might be his base stats as well. But it's still a stupid decision to go that route and it shouldn't be that great. The only reason this can all makes sense is that Netero's base stats is beyond monstrous levels and I don't ever see that as true.

 

[kkck]

I agree, the first thing that made me question the HK, was that it never was a reinforcement hatsu. I even thought it was stupid, and just have no reason at all for him to get that kind of hatsu. 3 categories that aren't his main category is just a bad move, unless you count the speed factor.

". No amount of nen netero can possibly have justifies kannon. "
It might be his efficiency at work, small movements great power that kind of stuff. He's mastered his technique so much that it requires little energy.
"the most unusual bit is the sheer damage output it has"
As Genesis stated, it might be his base stats as well. But it's still a stupid decision to go that route and it shouldn't be that great. The only reason this can all makes sense is that Netero's base stats is beyond monstrous levels and I don't ever see that as true.

Efficiency does not justify kanon at all. We are talking about each palm hitting each time with enough strength to leave a crater in the ground. As far as pure numbers go, gon's jajanken had more or less that effect and knuckle made the point it had about 1800 worth of nen. During that explanation knuckle also made the point just sustaining ken consumes it... Now, netero might not need ken when using kannon however it is more than reasonable to suggest each movement consumes nen. With that in mind, there isn't an amount of nen netero can have that makes sense with his sheer damage output. Each hit could consume 1 unit of nen (which is an astonishing 1799 less than gon's hatsu) and even then the amount of nen netero would have would be in the hundreds of thousands and perhaps millions. This is well beyond being efficient. And we know royal guards, who had much more nen than netero, were at 700k+. Hyakushiki kannon does not play by any rules, it simply doesn't give fuck. The way I see it, it completely defies categories and nen as we understand them.

 

[uberfayt]

Efficiency does not justify kanon at all. We are talking about each palm hitting each time with enough strength to leave a crater in the ground. As far as pure numbers go, gon's jajanken had more or less that effect and knuckle made the point it had about 1800 worth of nen. During that explanation knuckle also made the point just sustaining ken consumes it... Now, netero might not need ken when using kannon however it is more than reasonable to suggest each movement consumes nen. With that in mind, there isn't an amount of nen netero can have that makes sense with his sheer damage output. Each hit could consume 1 unit of nen (which is an astonishing 1799 less than gon's hatsu) and even then the amount of nen netero would have would be in the hundreds of thousands and perhaps millions. This is well beyond being efficient. And we know royal guards, who had much more nen than netero, were at 700k+. Hyakushiki kannon does not play by any rules, it simply doesn't give fuck. The way I see it, it completely defies categories and nen as we understand them.

I guess your answer was directed to @howdydodah ^^

While I do agree that HK is hax for a human's aura (no matter how trained he is), I think that with "contracts and serments" (like what Gon or Kurapika did) its strength can be explained. Netero sacrifices his defences to perform his prayer, which I consider as the condition allowing his HK to reach its insane level. Note that the prayer needs 5 to 6 seconds to be achieved for a normal person, and during a fight it's suicide to stay defenceless that much. Netero then with his insane punching "gratitude" training reduced that time, and by doing so I kinda feel that's how he cheated his own set condition.

 

[Demonspeed]

Which aspect of Emission exactly does it allow to shape nen? Transmutation can shape nen and imbue properties at the same time or just shape it without actually transmuting properties all together as we saw Gon practice making a zero/circle.

Transmutation and Conjuration are consistent with shaping. Just because we see emitters summoning puppets automatically makes their hatsus completely just emitter based.

And we saw Gon shaping his aura into a ball and throw it for Emission. When Razor is not using his Devils, he simply throws a Nen canonball. Leorio's Hatsu has the shape of punches when he attacks with it and so on.

Why are you assuming that you definitely needs Transmutation to give a shape for your aura? Giving a certain shape to your aura doesn't mean you are using Transmutation. It is is simply a matter of aura control. You are taking things too literally, especially for a category like Hatsu.

The better your Ten, the better you can maintain the shape of the projected aura, the better your Ren, the farther you can project it. That's what she said. Being more consistent with shaping doesn't really mean anything, Transmuters mimics properties, Conjurers conjure things, it's only natural that you'd see more abilities with common shapes from these two types, they are not close for nothing.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 1, 2017, Original Post Date: Aug 1, 2017 ---

Efficiency does not justify kanon at all. We are talking about each palm hitting each time with enough strength to leave a crater in the ground. As far as pure numbers go, gon's jajanken had more or less that effect and knuckle made the point it had about 1800 worth of nen. During that explanation knuckle also made the point just sustaining ken consumes it... Now, netero might not need ken when using kannon however it is more than reasonable to suggest each movement consumes nen. With that in mind, there isn't an amount of nen netero can have that makes sense with his sheer damage output. Each hit could consume 1 unit of nen (which is an astonishing 1799 less than gon's hatsu) and even then the amount of nen netero would have would be in the hundreds of thousands and perhaps millions. This is well beyond being efficient. And we know royal guards, who had much more nen than netero, were at 700k+. Hyakushiki kannon does not play by any rules, it simply doesn't give fuck. The way I see it, it completely defies categories and nen as we understand them.

How? Gon is not Netero. Netero's aura is far superior to him.You spend less energy the better you get at controlling your aura, control of your aura flow does it as well. With HK, Netero can't maintain Ken, or if he does it is very weak. Because HK is his aura and it's emitted outside so his body is weaker(see what happened when Razor absorbed his Devils for example). Netero is just that powerful.

Nen users get more stamina by practicing their Ren. That's why the basics are so important. Tsezguerra was stronger than Gon and Killua, but he still had inferior Nen control and stamina than them, because he neglected the basics.

 

[kkck]

How? Gon is not Netero. Netero's aura is far superior to him.You spend less energy the better you get at controlling your aura, control of your aura flow does it as well. With HK, Netero can't maintain Ken, or if he does it is very weak. Because HK is his aura and it's emitted outside so his body is weaker(see what happened when Razor absorbed his Devils for example). Netero is just that powerful.

Nen users get more stamina by practicing their Ren. That's why the basics are so important. Tsezguerra was stronger than Gon and Killua, but he still had inferior Nen control and stamina than them, because he neglected the basics.

Netero not being gon is irrelevant here. The implication here would be that netero's individual kannon punches consume about as much aura as a ko from uvo (at least judging by the damage) and yet the aura usage is... 1. Normal enhancers don't throw "1" aura into such attacks since ko is performed by concentrating your ken into a single point. I understand netero being better than others at nen. But it makes zero sense that he is able to use attacks that powerful while using 1/1800 worth of nen compared to others for roughly comparable damage. Not to mention that even if netero did consume precisely 1 unit of nen per punch, the implication would still be that netero has hundreds of thousands if not millions worth of nen. And we know for a fact netero does not have anywhere near that amount of nen, the manga went well out of its way to tell us netero did not have anything resembling the nen volume the royal guards have. It makes sense netero to be more efficient than other nen users but if his attacks consume 0 nen then something entirely different is going on here.

 

[howdydodah]

Essentially what kkk was trying to say is the efficiency ratio doesn't add up. It's too far from the other master level, it's too "effortless".

Can't quote on phone too annoying.

As I explained earlier, nen users can't pull off shape creation without the talent for transmutation/transformation.
I swear the naming convention is baffling which is which, I wish I can read japanese.
http://m.mangafox.me/manga/hunter_x_hunter/v15/c146/11.html

 

[Demonspeed]

Netero not being gon is irrelevant here. The implication here would be that netero's individual kannon punches consume about as much aura as a ko from uvo (at least judging by the damage) and yet the aura usage is... 1. Normal enhancers don't throw "1" aura into such attacks since ko is performed by concentrating your ken into a single point. I understand netero being better than others at nen. But it makes zero sense that he is able to use attacks that powerful while using 1/1800 worth of nen compared to others for roughly comparable damage. Not to mention that even if netero did consume precisely 1 unit of nen per punch, the implication would still be that netero has hundreds of thousands if not millions worth of nen. And we know for a fact netero does not have anywhere near that amount of nen, the manga went well out of its way to tell us netero did not have anything resembling the nen volume the royal guards have. It makes sense netero to be more efficient than other nen users but if his attacks consume 0 nen then something entirely different is going on here.

I don't think it's a good way to gauge this in the first place. I didn't have the impression that a single palm attack was as strong as Uvo's punch but he should be able to control the amount of power he wants to use in his attacks when using HK, the crater from his 99th Hand was certainly not as big as something you would expect from 99 BBIs. And if we are talking about craters, Uvo's BBI against the Shadow Beasts seemed much less powerful than Gon's Rock at GI, would you say that Gon had more power than Uvo then?

The amount of aura he spends is impossible to gauge, Uvo is not comparable to Netero either, no Human is comparable right now with their feats. Yes, he should have much less than 700K Aura, but the aura consumption rate should be much less than 1 Aura/S as well(could be 0.00001 Aura/S for all we know). Netero was 120+ and we know how dedicated he was to training. It's simply impossible to gauge all of this, we lack too much details. Nothing says others can't do this as well with training since there is no ceiling.

 

[kkck]

I don't think it's a good way to gauge this in the first place. I didn't have the impression that a single palm attack was as strong as Uvo's punch but he should be able to control the amount of power he wants to use in his attacks when using HK, the crater from his 99th Hand was certainly not as big as something you would expect from 99 BBIs. And if we are talking about craters, Uvo's BBI against the Shadow Beasts seemed much less powerful than Gon's Rock at GI, would you say that Gon had more power than Uvo then?

The amount of aura he spends is impossible to gauge, Uvo is not comparable to Netero either, no Human is comparable right now with their feats. Yes, he should have much less than 700K Aura, but the aura consumption rate should be much less than 1 Aura/S as well(could be 0.00001 Aura/S for all we know). Netero was 120+ and we know how dedicated he was to training. It's simply impossible to gauge all of this, we lack too much details. Nothing says others can't do this as well with training since there is no ceiling.

Was there a crater when he used 99th hand? IIRC that hit meruem. Or was that the attack that collapsed the ground they were on and opened the way to the ruins? because that seemed pretty gigantic.

Why would you think BBI seemed inferior to rock? At least to me on results alone BBI seemed vastly superior even to gon's rock during the chimera ant arc.

I do agree with the idea that netero would have been remarkably efficient with how he used nen. What I do not agree with is that two people could be THAT different when it comes to using an equal amount of nen. 1 of nen for 1 person is exactly the same amount of energy as one of nen for another. It's not even about efficiency at that point, it's about simply not having the energy for something. What you are suggesting here is the equivalent to powering up a rocket to the moon with a single AAA battery.

 

[Copy Panda]

Why would you think BBI seemed inferior to rock? At least to me on results alone BBI seemed vastly superior even to gon's rock during the chimera ant arc.

Wait if you claim this, how would BBI fare against Youpi?

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 2, 2017, Original Post Date: Aug 2, 2017 ---

@ talk about aura consumption

I was thinking that Zeno's speech on Netero and his aura being so quiet was to illustrate exactly that; that his nen consumption is very efficient and so can accomplish relatively more with less

 

[kkck]

Wait if you claim this, how would BBI fare against Youpi?

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 2, 2017, Original Post Date: Aug 2, 2017 ---

@ talk about aura consumption

I was thinking that Zeno's speech on Netero and his aura being so quiet was to illustrate exactly that; that his nen consumption is very efficient and so can accomplish relatively more with less

It's not like we have a direct way to compare but even then BBI seems consistently stronger than gon's rock. The attack did not even kill genthru on greed island. Meanwhile when uvo used the attack on the ground it looked like a meteor had hit the place. I would assume that none of the royal guards would suffer meaningful damage from it but still well more than what gon could have dreamed of. Of course, that goes for kid gon, adult gon in an entirely different real.

The issue here is not merely about efficiency. What some here are suggesting efficiency can do is equivalent to powering up a nuclear bomb with a pack of batteries you can buy at a farmacy. That's... not what efficiency even is in this context.

 

[Copy Panda]

im kind of busy rn ill respond properly to that comment in a bit, but i do want to point out that unlike anyone from the royal guard, netero has bound himself to vows; he has to pray every time he uses the statue and even Mereum pointed out how amazing it is that it took him 10 years to amass this kind of power

 

[uberfayt]

Don't you guys think "Pain packer" is too broken ? The condition for its activation (i.e. Fei Tan's anger) is too light for such devastating results. I mean the pain from a broken arm is equivalent to a miniature sun (basically nuclear fusion) radiating for 15 seconds or so...

Same goes for "Ripper cyclotron", if for instance Phinx were to be hidden by Meleoron's "God accomplice" the combo would be unstoppable (but only as a surprise attack though). Phinx would have one minute or so to perform his arm rolls, so lets say minimum 60...just as Meleoron would go for breath he would hit the target. I think even Meruem would be killed by it if taken off guard.

 

[kkck]

Don't you guys think "Pain packer" is too broken ? The condition for its activation (i.e. Fei Tan's anger) is too light for such devastating results. I mean the pain from a broken arm is equivalent to a miniature sun (basically nuclear fusion) radiating for 15 seconds or so...

Same goes for "Ripper cyclotron", if for instance Phinx were to be hidden by Meleoron's "God accomplice" the combo would be unstoppable (but only as a surprise attack though). Phinx would have one minute or so to perform his arm rolls, so lets say minimum 60...just as Meleoron would go for breath he would hit the target. I think even Meruem would be killed by it if taken off guard.

Pain packer is without a doubt powerful but we really have no idea of what the conditions behind it are. Without knowing that crucial bit of information we can't know if it's too broken. That said, based on the one time we saw it we do know there are conditions to its activation, it is not something pheiten can do at will. That alone could justify it's power.

As for ripper cyclotron, I don't think it is too broken. The technique seems to be a simple ko. Ko is a powerful technique but more importantly it is a risky technique. Using it implies leaving your entire body defenseless. So you have phynx who uses a variation of ko which presumably leaves him defenseless and on top of that he has added the condition that he needs to spin his arm to power it up. There is no way this is broken IMO. Unless the technique works by a method distinct from what I said.

 

[Demonspeed]

I would not call Pain Packer broken from what we have seen. He needs to be injured to activate it. He has other variants but the Rising Sun technique can be stopped before he uses it, Zazan was too scared to do anything.

Same for Ripper Cyclotron. Not sure he uses Ko though. The way it works he should be able guard the rest of the body and power up to eventually surpass Ko attack if he has time.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 5, 2017, Original Post Date: Aug 5, 2017 ---

We are starting to see abilities invisible to anyone but designed targets. Kurapika's transfer with his Steal Chain and Momoze's beast which can become invisible to anyone but its target. Do you think it's In or another type of power? Can they be seen with Gyo?