Spoiler Akatsuki no Yona Spoiler & Chapter Discussion

[mmmrazorz]

There must be a reason why Yona and Soo Won were not allowed to enter the mausoleum together. Yona was in there alone and nothing happened. Soo Won was in there alone and nothing happened. So what happens when both enter?

Oh wow.

WOW.

I think you just found something. I got goosebumps now.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 7, 2019, Original Post Date: Nov 7, 2019 ---

Wow you want that? To me it all just looks pretty pathetic. I wanted more action and conflict between them before we jump on the the ‘sad for Soo-won train’. I mean all we’ve had was a few passing meetings, glares, and wistful looks between the 3. You would think it’s building up to some climax, before we start feeling sorry for Soo-won wasting away. Sure that’s juicy drama, but we should have more before we get to it. It’s like having cake frosting without the cake.

Yeah i also want some climax between Soo Won - Yona -Hak before soo won abdicate the throne. But i think soo won pity party is inevitable at this point. Soo won's past will probably become the saddest sob story out of all characters in akayona.

Now that i think about it, i agree that the final boss probably wont be Kai empire or Soo won. Now i'm starting to believe the split soul theory ( i know its an old theory). That both yona and soo won are king hiryuu or his reincarnation. I mean if you add soo won's face + yona's hair, you got Hiryuu. Maybe if they enter mausoleum together, their memories when they were Hiryuu will awaken. Maybe the final boss will be Hiryuu himself, and after he is defeated, the dragons will become norman human no more dragon curse.

 

[@Aylinn]

Kashi wasn’t just a casualty and victim wife who knew nothing. She was someone who knew important things then later died. I’m more in the camp Yu-hon had something to do with it. According to the fanbook timeline, they died the same year too.
My best guesses on how Kashi died was that either she found out something she shouldn’t have and was killed to silence her, or that she died trying to prevent or protect something.

So little is known about the whole past that anything could happen, for example perhaps Il and Kashi marriage was not successful and they had differing opinions on many topics, from how to bring up their daughter (perhaps Kashi did not want to keep Yona in a golden age and ignorant and wanted to educate Yona?) to how Il is handling the country and conflicts with neighbours. Il saw in both Kashi and Yu-hon people who would oppose his passive approach and preferred to eliminate them from the picture.

I would like this to be true, because it would not reduce Kashi to the role of wife and mother, however, perhaps this is too daring for a shoujo story?

 

[mmmrazorz]

for example perhaps Il and Kashi marriage was not successful and they had differing opinions on many topics

I like this theory but i think this manga will not go there. It's a shoujou afterall, they cant tell their audience that marriage is actually hard and not all roses and rainbows.

 

[lightningsha]

He must have some kind of connection to the Dragon Warriors since Kija is unable to attack him similarly to Yona in the beginning. And neither of the Dragon Warriors seem to mind him. It was also Jae ha who protected him from Hak, even though it could have been just an unconscious influence that prevented greater harm from him.There are also a few scenes which show either similar or contrary events regarding Soo Won and Yona.

I feel it could go either way for me. Kija isn’t someone who would brutally murder someone who is being a nice guy even if he told himself he would earlier. He did say Soo-won reminded him of Yona, so there could be some supernatural Hiryuu stuff there, or it could be that that is just the character traits those two have in common. Resolution, leadership, selflessness, etc...

To me, I think it was more Jae-ha protecting Hak from himself more than anything. Kija later tells Jae-ha he knows what Jae-ha was trying to protect (that exchange didn’t look like it was Soo-won at all). Also Hak was seconds away from murdering Soo-won. If the compulsion to protect Soo-won was supernatural, how come the other dragons didn’t intervene? Kija even hesitated when Jae-ha asked for help in restraining Hak.

There could be supernatural elements to this, but I still don’t think I’ve seen anything concrete enough that can’t be explained away with mundane stuff.

I agree. I think barely anybody believes King Il´s story about robbers who killed his wife. I still wonder to this day what the parents intended to do with their daughter. King Il spoilt is daughter, but had hardly time for her. He was the last to see her, when she was sick.

Queen Kashi must have been really gentle towards her daughter, since she slept with the 6 year old girl in one bed. I just wonder, why the author didn´t show us Kashi´s full face. What was the reason? Strange.

By the way, I wonder if either Kashi or King Il were able to speak with the gods similarly to Ik soo or if Ik soo visited the king and told him about his daughter. He had once gold if I remember correctly and there were few people who are so well-off in those times.

Yes I agree. Il and Kashi definitely had some priestly intel to know all this about Yona. It could be that one of them also could speak with the gods. I’m leaning more toward Kashi (maybe that’s a reason she was killed?). Even though Il was very religious himself and took great in knowing his daughter was Hiryuu reincarnated

I do think that Yu hon was ambitious...the question is if that what he told Soo Won was true: If his presence alone was a hindrance for King Il and he decided to get rid of him, since the soldiers most likely preferred to follow Yu hon. That was the case, if it was true or if he held a grudge against is brother for his ascension to the throne. He could have posed a physical threat for King Il and got eliminated.

The third possibility is that Yu hon respected his brother, but was against Yona´s presence. Yu hon was the one who drove the priests out in order to strengthen the position of the king.

I think it is pretty interesting that you also believe that King Il didn´t treat Soo Won so well, like Yona suggested in the beginning. He could have seen the father in him and Soo Won did rebel against King Il. You can see it, when he asked Yona if she didn´t want to rid the horse even though King Il hated it.
I know a bunch of people who think he was merely strict, but still didn´t mistreat Soo Won.

There must be a reason why Yona and Soo Won were not allowed to enter the mausoleum together. Yona was in there alone and nothing happened. Soo Won was in there alone and nothing happened. So what happens when both enter?

Yes I think so too. I think maybe a combination of some of those. Yona and the Hiryuu thing definitely fits in there somehow too.

The mausoleum thing. I first took it that Il just hates Soo-won (though not enough to kill a child for it) and won’t let Soo-won on things he considered sacred (Il visited the mausoleum often so he was very spiritual). Also whatever Yu-hon’s stance on Yona’s Hiryuu thing and ambitions for his son bled into what Il felt for Soo-won. Soo-won was probably therefore tainted in Il’s eyes. Well that was my first impression anyway.

The split-soul theory just sounds so weird to me I guess. Like a soul is supposed to be the core of person, stripped down to its barest form. The thought that a soul can be split feels wacky. Though if there is some other explanation to both Yona and Soo-won having Hiryuu-ness I would start to buy it I think. Anything other than ‘half a soul’

Yeah i also want some climax between Soo Won - Yona -Hak before soo won abdicate the throne. But i think soo won pity party is inevitable at this point. Soo won's past will probably become the saddest sob story out of all characters in akayona.

Lol that is most likely what’s going to happen.

Now that i think about it, i agree that the final boss probably wont be Kai empire or Soo won. Now i'm starting to believe the split soul theory ( i know its an old theory). That both yona and soo won are king hiryuu or his reincarnation. I mean if you add soo won's face + yona's hair, you got Hiryuu. Maybe if they enter mausoleum together, their memories when they were Hiryuu will awaken. Maybe the final boss will be Hiryuu himself, and after he is defeated, the dragons will become norman human no more dragon curse.

hahaha! Hiryuu being the final villain!? It’s twisty but I kind of like it. I do want the final conflict to be supernatural in nature like the prophesy is. If it’s true we are finished with other countries being a threat, then everything would be an internal crisis from here on.

So little is known about the whole past that anything could happen, for example perhaps Il and Kashi marriage was not successful and they had differing opinions on many topics, from how to bring up their daughter (perhaps Kashi did not want to keep Yona in a golden age and ignorant and wanted to educate Yona?) to how Il is handling the country and conflicts with neighbours. Il saw in both Kashi and Yu-hon people who would oppose his passive approach and preferred to eliminate them from the picture.

I would like this to be true, because it would not reduce Kashi to the role of wife and mother, however, perhaps this is too daring for a shoujo story?

Il killing Kashi!? That’s something I haven’t heard before! I like it because it’s a twist and adds more intrigue. Though like you said, it might be too daring to show if she gets cast in more of a dark light.

Il’s stance on Yona being Hiryuu is hard to pin down. He seemed to have pride in what his daughter was, and he was a very spiritual man who believed and worshipped the gods. He was very protective of Yona, and wouldn’t let her handle weapons/pursue violence. He must have known that if she pursues her destiny being Hiryuu and finding the dragons, that it only be full of fighting so maybe he had some refusal of her destiny.

We know less of Kashi’s stance. Only that she seemed to accept that Yona with the dragons was an inevitable thing.

 

[mmmrazorz]

The split-soul theory just sounds so weird to me I guess. Like a soul is supposed to be the core of person, stripped down to its barest form. The thought that a soul can be split feels wacky. Though if there is some other explanation to both Yona and Soo-won having Hiryuu-ness I would start to buy it I think. Anything other than ‘half a soul’

This theory reminds me of cardcaptor sakura. You know that manga version of ccs where Clow reincarnated into two person, one has his magic ability and memories and the other one only has his soul and nothing else i guess. It's unusual but its been done before so i don't know maybe this will be same case?.

If it’s true we are finished with other countries being a threat, then everything would be an internal crisis from here on.

I hope we're not finished yet with Kai. The last arc with Kai has been underwhelming. We need 1 last arc with Kai before final arc with the dragons and phophecy revealing arc. This whole situation with Kai can be summarized as follows :
Soo won : we must prepare for war against kai, i'll kill my uncle, usurp the throne, unite the tribes and make xing and sei as vassal states this is urgent matter
Also soo won : aww kai just attacks, send kye syuk *continue sipping tea

 

[SamuelDean]

I feel it could go either way for me. Kija isn’t someone who would brutally murder someone who is being a nice guy even if he told himself he would earlier. He did say Soo-won reminded him of Yona, so there could be some supernatural Hiryuu stuff there, or it could be that that is just the character traits those two have in common. Resolution, leadership, selflessness, etc...

Go back to Sei Arc: Kija fully intended to attack Soo Won in order to take revenge, but he couldn´t do it. Something hindered him from doing it. The scene is very similar to the one in the beginning, when he tried to attack Yona.

To me, I think it was more Jae-ha protecting Hak from himself more than anything. Kija later tells Jae-ha he knows what Jae-ha was trying to protect (that exchange didn’t look like it was Soo-won at all). Also Hak was seconds away from murdering Soo-won. If the compulsion to protect Soo-won was supernatural, how come the other dragons didn’t intervene? Kija even hesitated when Jae-ha asked for help in restraining Hak.

There could be supernatural elements to this, but I still don’t think I’ve seen anything concrete enough that can’t be explained away with mundane stuff.

Not everything can be explained with mundane stuff. Kija´s reaction for example cannot, since he fully intended to attack Soo Won, but couldn´t. That was interesting. Jae ha´s reaction could be explained like this. I agree. I merely considered it interesting that he protected also Soo Won.

 

[lightningsha]

This theory reminds me of cardcaptor sakura. You know that manga version of ccs where Clow reincarnated into two person, one has his magic ability and memories and the other one only has his soul and nothing else i guess. It's unusual but its been done before so i don't know maybe this will be same case?.

Lol! I didn’t read that particular story, but I do know of CLAMP to come up with the most mindbending things. It could be the same case if Kusanagi got ideas from CLAMP It’s still totally weird for me and messes with my concept of what a soul is.

How about this?: Soo-won may not necessarily be a ‘piece of Hiryuu’, but he can still have an important role in the gods’ plans? And that’s why we get questionable instances that could be supernatural?

I hope we're not finished yet with Kai. The last arc with Kai has been underwhelming. We need 1 last arc with Kai before final arc with the dragons and phophecy revealing arc. This whole situation with Kai can be summarized as follows :
Soo won : we must prepare for war against kai, i'll kill my uncle, usurp the throne, unite the tribes and make xing and sei as vassal states this is urgent matter
Also soo won : aww kai just attacks, send kye syuk *continue sipping tea

Me too. I would rather another external threat came. Kai being the only feasible answer we can think of at this point....
The last arc did seem VERY ooc of Soo-won to not involve himself in Kuelbo’s invasion. Like what? Why just sit at the castle?

*queue theories Soo-won’s mysterious illness flared up and he had to hide the symptoms so he stayed behind*

Go back to Sei Arc: Kija fully intended to attack Soo Won in order to take revenge, but he couldn´t do it. Something hindered him from doing it. The scene is very similar to the one in the beginning, when he tried to attack Yona.

Not everything can be explained with mundane stuff. Kija´s reaction for example cannot, since he fully intended to attack Soo Won, but couldn´t. That was interesting. Jae ha´s reaction could be explained like this. I agree. I merely considered it interesting that he protected also Soo Won.

Just read the Kija/Soo-won encounter again. I agree it’s the most mysterious out of all. But still not impossible to explain away. Kija is not one to kill someone who wasn’t attacking him or anyone else, and not being antagonistic in the least.

I am one to believe Soo-won has an important role in the prophecy at the very least however. I’m not dumping this theory. It’s a good one. I just need more concrete evidence to believe it.

 

[SamuelDean]

[QUOTE="lightningsha, post: 5131087, member: 178251"


Just read the Kija/Soo-won encounter again. I agree it’s the most mysterious out of all. But still not impossible to explain away. Kija is not one to kill someone who wasn’t attacking him or anyone else, and not being antagonistic in the least.

I am one to believe Soo-won has an important role in the prophecy at the very least however. I’m not dumping this theory. It’s a good one. I just need more concrete evidence to believe it.
[/QUOTE]

I have read this particular point already quite often so I do know that there is no hint, that Kija didn´t wish to attack Soo Won.

"Upon he who caused the princess and Hak to suffer, I should be taking revenge."
"And yet why can´t I move."

This doesn´t look like he feels pity for him, but rather something prevents him from the attack. Kija is unable to understand it.

There are other instances which are quite interesting:
The moment, when Yona could hear Soo Won talking from quite a distance during her sleep.
Jae ha: "He is the one we should be the most wary of, but if we lose focus, I feel like we forget that. Like we lose our balance."

The instance where King Il says that Soo Won is different from Yona could even be a blatant lie of the king.
Or why did he prevent Soo Won from entering the mausoleum together with Yona? There was no harm in allowing it and even Yona thought that it was a strange reaction from her father.

The instance when Zeno sees Soo Won for the first time. Granted it could be that he merely realized who he is, but there would be also another possibility.

Zeno´s rather pointless question if Soo Won wishes to use the Dragon Warriors, since they are bound to Yona. Without Yona´s wish the Dragon Warriors could not be used by anybody else. So what was the point of the question?

Even in the beginning they argued if the king was supposed to be Yona or Soo Won. My guess would be it is Hiryuu, but that doesn´t matter here.

 

[lightningsha]

I have read this particular point already quite often so I do know that there is no hint, that Kija didn´t wish to attack Soo Won.

"Upon he who caused the princess and Hak to suffer, I should be taking revenge."
"And yet why can´t I move."

This doesn´t look like he feels pity for him, but rather something prevents him from the attack. Kija is unable to understand it.

Kija couldnt attack because the better nature of Kija got a hold of him? To suddenly find it hard attack a defenseless and unobtrusive guy and question why. I’ve seen that in lots of media

You really are a really staunch supporter of the Soo-won/half-Hiryuu theory huh?

While I still like to find alternate explanations until I can be convinced, I do have a headcannon it was them god’s subtle influence keeping him from it, even though I’m being a contrarian. I do find it more interesting that Soo-won has a unique relationship with the dragons than not. I’m still not on the ‘he’s half Hiryuu’ train though.

There are other instances which are quite interesting:
The moment, when Yona could hear Soo Won talking from quite a distance during her sleep.
Jae ha: "He is the one we should be the most wary of, but if we lose focus, I feel like we forget that. Like we lose our balance."

Which scene is the Yona one? I don’t remember..

Hmm? Wasn’t it because Jae-ha knows to be on guard of Soo-won, the king who betrayed Yona and Hak? And he’s worried they will lose their balance because being in Hiryuu castle is influencing them to feel comfortable when they probably shouldn’t—> thus hard to stay cautious and wary of dangerous people like Soo-won.

It doesn’t look like he said Soo-won himself is making him feel unbalanced. I should look at the Japanese raw to see what it really says...if I can find it.

The instance where King Il says that Soo Won is different from Yona could even be a blatant lie of the king.
Or why did he prevent Soo Won from entering the mausoleum together with Yona? There was no harm in allowing it and even Yona thought that it was a strange reaction from her father.

I mentioned this earlier, but it could just be: Il being very spiritual and religious, who visits the mausoleum often to pray, considered it a very sacred place that should not be sullied by tainted Soo-won (which came from whatever arguments happened with Yu-hon)? We all knew Il dislikes Soo-won very much, although Yona wasn’t very aware of it.

Zeno´s rather pointless question if Soo Won wishes to use the Dragon Warriors, since they are bound to Yona. Without Yona´s wish the Dragon Warriors could not be used by anybody else. So what was the point of the question?

Isn't it because Soo-won is a king? And Zeno being well-versed in knowing leaders wanting to use the dragons as weapons of war to further their power...could ask a preemptive question like that.

I do think Zeno knows something about the whole Il, Yu-hon..and thus Soo-won history though.

 

[mmmrazorz]

How about this?: Soo-won may not necessarily be a ‘piece of Hiryuu’, but he can still have an important role in the gods’ plans? And that’s why we get questionable instances that could be supernatural?

I do think he is the king of prophecy not yona. What if...there is only one hiryuu's reincarnation, and the other one is a decoy? Kind of like usagi - minako princess serenity situation in sailor moon? I mean we got these facts that :

1. Hiryuu and Soo Won both love and trust human
2. Both don't mind wars to expand territory not just for defensive (chapter 102 i think?)
3. They kinda look alike
4. Zeno's weird reaction when first met soo won.
5. Both actually dont want protection from dragons
6. Other dragons reaction when they met soo won
7. Yona herself didnt think she is hiryuu's reincarnation
8. King Il's weird persistance than yona is king hiryuu's reincarnation and soo won is different

Maybe hiryuu create decoy to release himself from the dragons, so dragons will protect the decoy instead of him? Because he believe in human therefore in his next reincarnation he wish to be completely free from other dragons and be 100% human? Does it make sense hehehe

 

[SamuelDean]

Kija couldnt attack because the better nature of Kija got a hold of him? To suddenly find it hard attack a defenseless and unobtrusive guy and question why. I’ve seen that in lots of media

You really are a really staunch supporter of the Soo-won/half-Hiryuu theory huh?

Em. But that is not what is shown. There is no sign of pity or wish to spare him. Usually a thought like " but should I strike a guy without a sword down?" or something like that would be described. Nothing like this here. Not to say that Soo Won was not defenseless, since a bunch of guys with arrows and other weapons were pointed at Shin ha and Kija. In the same instance Soo Won is compared to Yona. This comparison is demonstrated during the entire manga. I consider this theory as pretty likely.

While I still like to find alternate explanations until I can be convinced, I do have a headcannon it was them god’s subtle influence keeping him from it, even though I’m being a contrarian. I do find it more interesting that Soo-won has a unique relationship with the dragons than not. I’m still not on the ‘he’s half Hiryuu’ train though.

Everybody has their own opinions. I see no problem with that, but you wished for evidence and I show you the one I have found.

Which scene is the Yona one? I don’t remember..

The scene directly after Soo Won is crowned. In this scene he defied the gods, while Yona shortly after is described to use the power of the gods.

Hmm? Wasn’t it because Jae-ha knows to be on guard of Soo-won, the king who betrayed Yona and Hak? And he’s worried they will lose their balance because being in Hiryuu castle is influencing them to feel comfortable when they probably shouldn’t—> thus hard to stay cautious and wary of dangerous people like Soo-won.It doesn’t look like he said Soo-won himself is making him feel unbalanced. I should look at the Japanese raw to see what it really says...if I can find it.

Strange that they do have no problems with Keishuk and feeling comfortable. This doesn´t seem the case, since Jae ha connected this feeling especially to Soo Won. Usually there is no problem with being on guard with a dangerous person, just if the person tends to have rather positive feeling towards another for whatever reason, then there is a problem. And having positive feelings towards Soo Won is strange, because
a) they know what he did
b) they do not know him personally.

Why I say this: Because the bond influences the feeling of the Dragon Warriors and Jae ha is the one person who is especially aware of it.

"Thinking of the king that wouldn´t move anymore, the four dragon warriors cried. Was it because they lost somebody precious to them? Or was it because the dragon´s blood inside of them was crying for Hiryuu. They did not know"

This scene appears twice in the manga, therefore I think it is pretty important that the bond is able to influence the feelings of the Dragon Warriors. They feel sort of disconntected from their feelings. They do not know, why they do this. This reminded me of Kija and his reaction to Soo Won.

Now to Jae ha: "I need to hurry and get out of here. But why can´t I move?" "Why do I feel like...it´s so difficult to leave?"
(This sounds similar to Kija´s scene. What Jae ha experiences here. He wishes to do something, but cannot. He cannot move. He is frozen.

"That figure and even that voice are sweetly alluring. But that is just how it is for the dragon´s blood within me."

Another interesting instant: Jae ha´s instinct told him, he could trust Soo Won. So here we have the subconscious again.

I mentioned this earlier, but it could just be: Il being very spiritual and religious, who visits the mausoleum often to pray, considered it a very sacred place that should not be sullied by tainted Soo-won (which came from whatever arguments happened with Yu-hon)? We all knew Il dislikes Soo-won very much, although Yona wasn’t very aware of it.

I am not quite sure, since Soo Won tells us at the beginning, that he had loved King Il, too. So it seems that there was a better relationship before. And actually no in the fandom I am, there are a lot of people who don´t think that Il had to hate Soo Won. Obviously King Il demonstrated to his daughter that he treated Soo Won rather well.

Isn't it because Soo-won is a king? And Zeno being well-versed in knowing leaders wanting to use the dragons as weapons of war to further their power...could ask a preemptive question like that.

I do think Zeno knows something about the whole Il, Yu-hon..and thus Soo-won history though.

How is a king supposed to use them? They are only able to do so if they somehow influence or persuade Yona. She is the reincarnation and is supposed to be the only boss of them. So why bother with a king that has 0 influence if Yona doesn´t want to.

It would have been more clever of Zeno to ask Yona then. Another reason could be that Soo Won has also a connection with Hiryuu and would have been able to use them as well, if the story had developed differently.

I agree that Zeno knows more, but this scene is given a lot of place. 3 pictures where Zeno stares at Soo Won. Given that Zeno was more connected to King Hiryuu than the other Dragon Warriors I wonder. Because Zeno like the rest of the Dragon Warriors (except for Kija and even he is unable to attack) don´t think of Soo Won as enemy.

 

[lightningsha]

I do think he is the king of prophecy not yona. What if...there is only one hiryuu's reincarnation, and the other one is a decoy? Kind of like usagi - minako princess serenity situation in sailor moon? I mean we got these facts that :

1. Hiryuu and Soo Won both love and trust human
2. Both don't mind wars to expand territory not just for defensive (chapter 102 i think?)
3. They kinda look alike
4. Zeno's weird reaction when first met soo won.
5. Both actually dont want protection from dragons
6. Other dragons reaction when they met soo won
7. Yona herself didnt think she is hiryuu's reincarnation
8. King Il's weird persistance than yona is king hiryuu's reincarnation and soo won is different

Maybe hiryuu create decoy to release himself from the dragons, so dragons will protect the decoy instead of him? Because he believe in human therefore in his next reincarnation he wishto be completely free from other dragons and be 100% human? Does it make sense hehehe

Why is it that it’s suddenly strange for the dragons to have a first impression of someone and that it has to be therefore supernatural in nature is what I’m asking? Like you can have instincts about someone, and not chalk it up to dragon blood. The only obviously supernatural reaction was theirs with Yona. I’m not saying there isn’t a more subtle supernatural reaction with the dragons and Soo-won, it could be there, but it’s just that they still can be explained with mundane reasons in my eyes...until I get something more concrete.

The decoy theory sounds a bit more fun than the split soul theory to me for some reason. I do agree soo-won kind of looks like Hiryuu. But it somehow feels even less likely than the split-soul theory.

I also agree Hiryuu and Soo-won share the same stance on needing the dragons. And he’s right. There has been a lot of focus on Yona recognizing this too though. Well it’s more that their existence causes more strife and contention than the good they bring. Not to mention they suffer the whole time because of it. I’m sure this is leading up to Yona (and maybe Soo-won) to try to find a way to end the cycle. That there really shouldn’t be any ‘gods on earth’, and religion is best kept at more of a distance.




But aside from the Soo-won theories, I am interested in Hiryuu’s reason for coming back. Based on Zeno’s thoughts, he concluded the dragon cycle was continuing because Hiryuu was going to come back. He also questioned what Hiryuu’s purpose or will was for coming back. There is confusion to me on whether the dragon cycle and also the protection of the castle was more based on Hiryuu or if it was the 4 other dragon gods.

I see good theories that Hiryuu’s will in coming back was to end the dragon cycle, but then why did it even continue after his death in the first place if that was the case?

I’m confused about that, and also confused on whether the castle’s spiritual center point is Hiryuu’s spirit and will, or if it’s a spiritual center for the other dragon gods. It’s been said it was the other at different instances.

Em. But that is not what is shown. There is no sign of pity or wish to spare him. Usually a thought like " but should I strike a guy without a sword down?" or something like that would be described. Nothing like this here. Not to say that Soo Won was not defenseless, since a bunch of guys with arrows and other weapons were pointed at Shin ha and Kija. In the same instance Soo Won is compared to Yona. This comparison is demonstrated during the entire manga. I consider this theory as pretty likely.

I don’t see why it needs to be said in his thoughts though for it to be true or not? Soo-won was still not being an aggressor at all, and I’ve never seen Kija outright kill someone on the spot if they didn’t instigate it first.

The scene directly after Soo Won is crowned. In this scene he defied the gods, while Yona shortly after is described to use the power of the gods.

Hahaha I chose an early chapter at random and found it on the first try (ch11)
Oh yeah Yona in her dreams definitely is having some sort of psychic sight there. I do remember it now. That could be hints she is connected to him by the soul or just cause he’s the main focus on everybody’s mind.
She also had that dream with the dragons being sad for her and they were actual little dragons in that dream.

Hiryuu, while definitely appearing more human than the dragon warriors, still has something more subtle that is supernatural. For example her somehow ‘having a feeling’ who the dragons are when she meets them, feeling comfortable around them, and having strange dreams. Actually that more proves she’s Hiryuu than just a normal girl....

Strange that they do have no problems with Keishuk and feeling comfortable. This doesn´t seem the case, since Jae ha connected this feeling especially to Soo Won. Usually there is no problem with being on guard with a dangerous person, just if the person tends to have rather positive feeling towards another for whatever reason, then there is a problem. And having positive feelings towards Soo Won is strange, because
a) they know what he did
b) they do not know him personally.

Why I say this: Because the bond influences the feeling of the Dragon Warriors and Jae ha is the one person who is especially aware of it.

But did Jae-ha point out in his thoughts that he had no trouble feeling uncomfortable around Kyesook or anyone else? I didn’t see that. Again just because it’s not said, doesn’t mean it’s not true.
In fact later right before the tournament starts he references how the castle is making them comfortable, when they mentioned the possibility of escaping. Like a cradle for the dragons. That’s him being concerned about the castle affecting their sense of danger. And he was talking about it in general..no reference of Soo-won in particular.

Jae ha is really savvy about knowing and understanding people. He knows Soo-won is the one to watch out for the most, despite Kyesook’s front. So having him point it out in his thoughts is not surprising to me.

I am not quite sure, since Soo Won tells us at the beginning, that he had loved King Il, too. So it seems that there was a better relationship before. And actually no in the fandom I am, there are a lot of people who don´t think that Il had to hate Soo Won. Obviously King Il demonstrated to his daughter that he treated Soo Won rather well.

I thought Soo-won was talking about his previous relationship with Il. Before the whole Yuhon thing went down. They could have had a good relationship up until the drama happened, right?

How is a king supposed to use them? They are only able to do so if they somehow influence or persuade Yona. She is the reincarnation and is supposed to be the only boss of them. So why bother with a king that has 0 influence if Yona doesn´t want to.

It would have been more clever of Zeno to ask Yona then. Another reason could be that Soo Won has also a connection with Hiryuu and would have been able to use them as well, if the story had developed differently.

I agree that Zeno knows more, but this scene is given a lot of place. 3 pictures where Zeno stares at Soo Won. Given that Zeno was more connected to King Hiryuu than the other Dragon Warriors I wonder. Because Zeno like the rest of the Dragon Warriors (except for Kija and even he is unable to attack) don´t think of Soo Won as enemy.

That’s true, we know the dragons won’t follow anyone but Yona. But no other groups don’t seems to take that into account when they target the dragons. It seems to be a recurring thing now that people just objectify them as weapons and don’t even take into account that they are people with wills of their own.
Or they do recognize their connection with Yona, but just decide to use her as a hostage to control them (which we know still doesn’t really work at all long term). As we saw with the latest arcs. We know this, but that doesn’t seem to be the case for others in the manga.

Zeno’s reaction to Soo-won is tied for me. I think it’s equally likely he recognizes ‘Hiryuu‘ in him or that he just recognizes him as Soo-won. Also his behavior later seems to hint he knows Soo-won is the king and knows Yona and such, while the whole time nobody seems to get Yona’s strange behavior toward him, but Zeno. That hints more toward him spying on them in the past.

 

[SamuelDean]

Why is it that it’s suddenly strange for the dragons to have a first impression of someone and that it has to be therefore supernatural in nature is what I’m asking? Like you can have instincts about someone, and not chalk it up to dragon blood. The only obviously supernatural reaction was theirs with Yona. I’m not saying there isn’t a more subtle supernatural reaction with the dragons and Soo-won, it could be there, but it’s just that they still can be explained with mundane reasons in my eyes...until I get something more concrete.

It is strange that a person has positive feelings towards another person that gravely hurt a person that is important to them. Yona (and Hak) are nearly a part of a family to them. Jae ha even said that he regretted to have meddled and hindered Hak. So it seems that he consciously could have lived with the fact that Hak would have beaten Soo Won to a pulp or even killed.

Considering this this reaction that Jae ha fears that they cannot keep their distance, sounds awfully strange.

I may have to say it: I don´t mind, if you don´t agree, but I like presenting my point of view. I am fairly convinced that Soo Won has a connection with the Dragon Warriors be it the "Hiryuu theory", "Ouryuu theory" or other theories which are related.

The decoy theory sounds a bit more fun than the split soul theory to me for some reason. I do agree soo-won kind of looks like Hiryuu. But it somehow feels even less likely than the split-soul theory.

I also agree Hiryuu and Soo-won share the same stance on needing the dragons. And he’s right. There has been a lot of focus on Yona recognizing this too though. Well it’s more that their existence causes more strife and contention than the good they bring. Not to mention they suffer the whole time because of it. I’m sure this is leading up to Yona (and maybe Soo-won) to try to find a way to end the cycle. That there really shouldn’t be any ‘gods on earth’, and religion is best kept at more of a distance..

What I don´t like about the Dragon Warriors is that this whole suffering of them is actually pointless. Why bother creating more and more Dragon Warriors that have no use for King Hiryuu and only suffer since they are different from the rest of humanity? The dragon blood could have awoken when Hiryuu came down to Earth and everything would have still made sense.

But aside from the Soo-won theories, I am interested in Hiryuu’s reason for coming back. Based on Zeno’s thoughts, he concluded the dragon cycle was continuing because Hiryuu was going to come back. He also questioned what Hiryuu’s purpose or will was for coming back. There is confusion to me on whether the dragon cycle and also the protection of the castle was more based on Hiryuu or if it was the 4 other dragon gods.

I see good theories that Hiryuu’s will in coming back was to end the dragon cycle, but then why did it even continue after his death in the first place if that was the case?

I’m confused about that, and also confused on whether the castle’s spiritual center point is Hiryuu’s spirit and will, or if it’s a spiritual center for the other dragon gods. It’s been said it was the other at different instances.

I don’t see why it needs to be said in his thoughts though for it to be true or not? Soo-won was still not being an aggressor at all, and I’ve never seen Kija outright kill someone on the spot if they didn’t instigate it first.

Because then it is up to interpretation, why Kija is not able to attack Soo Won. Why bother showing that Kija is unable to attack Soo Won and not demonstrate that this reaction happened due to him being a nice person? One sentence and it would be clear. Or else the whole thing just takes unnecessary space in a manga where every scene should make a point. Afterwards Shin ha connects Soo Won´s attitude to Yona´s, their master.

Also something different happened between Yona and Kija and Shin ha. Jae ha wanted to leave but couldn´t. Considering this instances it sounds rather strange to not connect these instances.

As it is, we do interpret this scene differently, but I have evidence that the bond influences feelings and that something similar happened between Yona and the dragon warriors and I still deem it strange if they have to remind themselves to keep a distance to that guy.

Hahaha I chose an early chapter at random and found it on the first try (ch11)
Oh yeah Yona in her dreams definitely is having some sort of psychic sight there. I do remember it now. That could be hints she is connected to him by the soul or just cause he’s the main focus on everybody’s mind.
She also had that dream with the dragons being sad for her and they were actual little dragons in that dream.

Hiryuu, while definitely appearing more human than the dragon warriors, still has something more subtle that is supernatural. For example her somehow ‘having a feeling’ who the dragons are when she meets them, feeling comfortable around them, and having strange dreams. Actually that more proves she’s Hiryuu than just a normal girl....

Yup. The dragons that are connected to her by the bound, you mean. Yona could really hear Soo Won. It was not a memory, but a scene that actually took place, which points to a connection. It is also interesting since the priest brings up the prophecy in the same instance and Yona chose a way contrary to the one Soo Won chose.

And yup, the bond influences the feelings of Hiryuu(Yona) and the dragon warriors.

But did Jae-ha point out in his thoughts that he had no trouble feeling uncomfortable around Kyesook or anyone else? I didn’t see that. Again just because it’s not said, doesn’t mean it’s not true.
In fact later right before the tournament starts he references how the castle is making them comfortable, when they mentioned the possibility of escaping. Like a cradle for the dragons. That’s him being concerned about the castle affecting their sense of danger. And he was talking about it in general..no reference of Soo-won in particular.

He mentioned Soo Won earlier, so he did connect it to Soo Won in particular.
How is " He is the one we should be the most wary of but..." and "If we lose focus I feel like we forget that" not connected to Soo Won? The mausoleum or castle is is not mentioned. Jae ha refers here to be wary of (especially) Soo Won and expresses his impression that they may forget this.

If he meant the castle he would refer to the location, but he didn´t. It really refers to Soo Won.

If Keishuk is not mentioned then Jae ha might refer to Soo Won and not Keishuk, don´t you think? The mangaka is trying to make a point here. She wants to show us something. If she had wished to underline that only the mausoleum influences them, then Jae ha would have mentioned it. If a reaction is only bound to a location, it would influence the feelings towards more people than one. But here Jae ha focuses on a person and not on a location. Jae ha even connects this two sentences with "but". So the two parts of the sentences are connected and the second part refers to the first part, aka Soo Won.

That’s true, we know the dragons won’t follow anyone but Yona. But no other groups don’t seems to take that into account when they target the dragons. It seems to be a recurring thing now that people just objectify them as weapons and don’t even take into account that they are people with wills of their own.
Or they do recognize their connection with Yona, but just decide to use her as a hostage to control them (which we know still doesn’t really work at all long term). As we saw with the latest arcs. We know this, but that doesn’t seem to be the case for others in the manga.

Zeno’s reaction to Soo-won is tied for me. I think it’s equally likely he recognizes ‘Hiryuu‘ in him or that he just recognizes him as Soo-won. Also his behavior later seems to hint he knows Soo-won is the king and knows Yona and such, while the whole time nobody seems to get Yona’s strange behavior toward him, but Zeno. That hints more toward him spying on them in the past.

But what sense does it have then that Zeno asked? Soo Won could even lie about using them? So why bother?
That they are not weapons is only half-true. They are bound to follow Yona if they want it or not. That was the reason Jae ha refused at first.

And Soo Won was part of that group who was present, so he might have realized this.

But I agree that it could be both cases.

 

[lightningsha]

It is strange that a person has positive feelings towards another person that gravely hurt a person that is important to them. Yona (and Hak) are nearly a part of a family to them. Jae ha even said that he regretted to have meddled and hindered Hak. So it seems that he consciously could have lived with the fact that Hak would have beaten Soo Won to a pulp or even killed.

Considering this this reaction that Jae ha fears that they cannot keep their distance, sounds awfully strange.

I may have to say it: I don´t mind, if you don´t agree, but I like presenting my point of view. I am fairly convinced that Soo Won has a connection with the Dragon Warriors be it the "Hiryuu theory", "Ouryuu theory" or other theories which are related.

Because then it is up to interpretation, why Kija is not able to attack Soo Won. Why bother showing that Kija is unable to attack Soo Won and not demonstrate that this reaction happened due to him being a nice person? One sentence and it would be clear. Or else the whole thing just takes unnecessary space in a manga where every scene should make a point. Afterwards Shin ha connects Soo Won´s attitude to Yona´s, their master.

I’m not denying Kusanagi is bringing in literary tools here to put emphasis on Soo-won and the dragons developing relationship. Soo-won is a titular main character, and the dragons seemed destined to meet Soo-won as much as they were for Yona and Hak. I do agree he is (has to be) part of the prophecy as well. So it is indeed an important event to see how they interact with eachother. Hence the emphasis. I’m just not convinced yet that this all means he is ‘Hiryuu’ or ‘half-Hiryuu’. I need something more concrete.

Jae-ha had no idea that Soo-won was the object of Hak’s sadness and kill-lust, he only started realizing that during the fact. He only knew Soo-won as the amiable guy (Lily’s bodyguard) that they temporarily allied with. So he sees Hak doing a dangerous thing for his sanity while bleeding at the same time aiming at a guy they were allying with and interferes. He wondered later if he shouldn’t have interfered in such very personal matters. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

What I don´t like about the Dragon Warriors is that this whole suffering of them is actually pointless. Why bother creating more and more Dragon Warriors that have no use for King Hiryuu and only suffer since they are different from the rest of humanity? The dragon blood could have awoken when Hiryuu came down to Earth and everything would have still made sense.

Yeah I don’t like or understand it either. Like wouldn’t it be easier just to let the first dragons die off, the powers return, instead of keeping the power hoping bodies for 2000 years?
Like why not just make them again when Hiryuu comes back? Zeno even mentions over the centuries he found it strange how the villages, despite facing much trouble and destruction, were never destroyed completely and the bloodline maintained. He concludes it’s the gods influence. So the gods were actively putting in effort to keep it going.

To me it seems it would be easier to just make more warriors by offering blood once Hiryuu returns. But we don’t know the exact mechanics anyway.
Feels like there is an important explanation to this we haven’t gotten yet.

He mentioned Soo Won earlier, so he did connect it to Soo Won in particular.
How is " He is the one we should be the most wary of but..." and "If we lose focus I feel like we forget that" not connected to Soo Won? The mausoleum or castle is is not mentioned. Jae ha refers here to be wary of (especially) Soo Won and expresses his impression that they may forget this.

If he meant the castle he would refer to the location, but he didn´t. It really refers to Soo Won.

If Keishuk is not mentioned then Jae ha might refer to Soo Won and not Keishuk, don´t you think? The mangaka is trying to make a point here. She wants to show us something. If she had wished to underline that only the mausoleum influences them, then Jae ha would have mentioned it. If a reaction is only bound to a location, it would influence the feelings towards more people than one. But here Jae ha focuses on a person and not on a location. Jae ha even connects this two sentences with "but". So the two parts of the sentences are connected and the second part refers to the first part, aka Soo Won.

Huh? You kind of lost me. Are you saying that it is In fact Soo-won that is making them feel comfortable?
It’s been far and beyond established that it’s the Castle (mausoleum being the epicenter) that’s has an effect on them. It’s been referenced multiple times before they got there. And when they got there they literally all said it indeed does make their hearts feel at ease.
Or maybe you are saying it’s both?

Jae-ha didn’t mention Kyesook in that instance because everyone was talking about Soo-won being interested in Zeno’s powers and how it reminded them of Mizari. So he’s like, ‘yeah we should definitely be wary of him, but damn is it hard to to stay on alert here here....’
If Jae-ha suddenly brought Soo-won out of nowhere then mentioned the feeling, I would be convinced.

You’re saying Jae-ha didn’t reference the location making them feel this way but he did. He literally said the castle is like a cradle for the dragons after their talk of possibly escaping the castle. It’s literally hard for them to stay on guard/feel danger at the castle.

We both agree that Jae-ha (Zeno aside) is the most intent on trying to distinguish the influence of the dragon blood from his own personal feelings and impressions. We knew that from his introduction. So he constantly tries to remind himself that he shouldn’t forget to distinguish the two, despite it being so difficult to. So in both instances of being wary of Soo-won, and possibility of deciding to run, he tries to remind himself that being at the castle is fuddling those feelings.

But what sense does it have then that Zeno asked? Soo Won could even lie about using them? So why bother?
That they are not weapons is only half-true. They are bound to follow Yona if they want it or not. That was the reason Jae ha refused at first.

And Soo Won was part of that group who was present, so he might have realized this.

But I agree that it could be both cases.

Because Soo-won is king of, not just any country, but the very country they are supernaturally bound too? He wants to get a read on what he can expect from Soo-won and their inevitable relationship with him (he has foresight enough to know them trouncing around the country openly will lead them to Soo-won, the king of Kouka). That’s the impression I got when I read it. Not to mention Zeno’s earlier knowledge of Soo-won growing up at Kuuto with Yona and Hak.

 

[mmmrazorz]

Why is it that it’s suddenly strange for the dragons to have a first impression of someone and that it has to be therefore supernatural in nature is what I’m asking? Like you can have instincts about someone, and not chalk it up to dragon blood. The only obviously supernatural reaction was theirs with Yona. I’m not saying there isn’t a more subtle supernatural reaction with the dragons and Soo-won, it could be there, but it’s just that they still can be explained with mundane

I can buy Jae Ha and other dragons reactions as non supernatural, just reaction from meeting someone charismatic. But Zeno's reaction imho isnt that simple. But right now it's all speculation, let's just wait until next chapters hehehe.

By the way i just read chapter 183 again and now i have some question...

- when geun tae and soo won talk about soo won's heir, both Kye Suk and Ju Doh didn't say anything...weird, we all know Ju Doh never hesitate to interrupt Soo Won before but why they both silent, do they know something?, right now a lot of fans are speculating Hak as Soo Won's heir, but do you think Ju Do and Kye Syuk will accept Hak ( if we assume Soo Won had already told them before). Both Kye Syuk and Ju Doh are Soo Won's most loyal subordinates, will they acknowledge other people as king that easily?. Even Geun Tae seems a bit pissed off about this heir thing. Their (lack of) reaction is interesting.

- Who do you think is in Soo Won's mind when they talk about next heir? Is he really thinking about hak? Aside from Soo won, who has the capacity to be king in this manga?

- citizen of kuuto are really chill, they will cheer at you even after you throw rocks at them lol. I'm still bitter about the fact that Jae ha and Kija didn't suffer any consequences

 

[BlackstarSkywalker]

I can buy Jae Ha and other dragons reactions as non supernatural, just reaction from meeting someone charismatic. But Zeno's reaction imho isnt that simple. But right now it's all speculation, let's just wait until next chapters hehehe.

By the way i just read chapter 183 again and now i have some question...

- when geun tae and soo won talk about soo won's heir, both Kye Suk and Ju Doh didn't say anything...weird, we all know Ju Doh never hesitate to interrupt Soo Won before but why they both silent, do they know something?, right now a lot of fans are speculating Hak as Soo Won's heir, but do you think Ju Do and Kye Syuk will accept Hak ( if we assume Soo Won had already told them before). Both Kye Syuk and Ju Doh are Soo Won's most loyal subordinates, will they acknowledge other people as king that easily?. Even Geun Tae seems a bit pissed off about this heir thing. Their (lack of) reaction is interesting.

- Who do you think is in Soo Won's mind when they talk about next heir? Is he really thinking about hak? Aside from Soo won, who has the capacity to be king in this manga?

- citizen of kuuto are really chill, they will cheer at you even after you throw rocks at them lol. I'm still bitter about the fact that Jae ha and Kija didn't suffer any consequences

Yona in the not too distant future could be a good ruler. He has leadership and many capacities. He understands people and reaches his heart.

Soo Won in this last chapter has a more liberal thought, insinuating that not necessarily a possible son of his is a good King just by carrying his blood. It is there where the merits come in.

 

[mmmrazorz]

Yona in the not too distant future could be a good ruler. He has leadership and many capacities. He understands

Yeah i think politic, administration, etc are something that she can learn while she's in training to be the heir. I think Yona needs someone like Kye Syuk as adviser if she's about to run a country. I know this fandom hate Kye Suk but that guy is actually capable and professional (judging from how he handle KyoGa and HHB in the last chapter) and intellectually i think he is on par with Soo Won. He could be great help. From what i see Yona's group don't have many intellect people who understand how to run a country. Yoon has a potential to become an adviser but right now he's way too young and inexperienced.

I do think a leader doesn't have to be an expert in economy, politics, aar strategy etc, as long as they have capable subordinates under their rule. You can always delegate task to competent people.

But i think Kye Suk is so loyal to Soo won, i can't imagine him helping Yona. Or maybe Zeno can become her adviser?

 

[BlackstarSkywalker]

Yeah i think politic, administration, etc are something that she can learn while she's in training to be the heir. I think Yona needs someone like Kye Syuk as adviser if she's about to run a country. I know this fandom hate Kye Suk but that guy is actually capable and professional (judging from how he handle KyoGa and HHB in the last chapter) and intellectually i think he is on par with Soo Won. He could be great help. From what i see Yona's group don't have many intellect people who understand how to run a country. Yoon has a potential to become an adviser but right now he's way too young and inexperienced.

I do think a leader doesn't have to be an expert in economy, politics, aar strategy etc, as long as they have capable subordinates under their rule. You can always delegate task to competent people.

But i think Kye Suk is so loyal to Soo won, i can't imagine him helping Yona. Or maybe Zeno can become her adviser?

I agree Yoon having a correct education could be a good counselor in the future.

Kye more than intelligent, is cunning.

 

[mmmrazorz]

I agree Yoon having a correct education could be a good counselor in the future.

Kye more than intelligent, is cunning.

Yeah right now her team is all brawn rather than brains while Soo won's team is more balance by having both Soo won and Kye syuk.

And the other thing is, while a leader don't have to be an expert, they must have a vision. Up until now, i never saw a panel in this manga in which Yona think about what kind of country she want to build. All of her time was spent thinking about her dragon's safety.

Now that she's in Hiryuu castle, she can learn from Soo won and she already has charisma and talent to lead, so if she can have soo won as her mentor, i think she can be a good ruler eventually.

 

[lightningsha]

I can buy Jae Ha and other dragons reactions as non supernatural, just reaction from meeting someone charismatic. But Zeno's reaction imho isnt that simple. But right now it's all speculation, let's just wait until next chapters hehehe.

Yeah we should wait and see. Now that the dragons and Yona are living in the castle with Soo-won, we should be able to to get more hints on what the author intends within a few chapters or so.

By the way i just read chapter 183 again and now i have some question...

- when geun tae and soo won talk about soo won's heir, both Kye Suk and Ju Doh didn't say anything...weird, we all know Ju Doh never hesitate to interrupt Soo Won before but why they both silent, do they know something?, right now a lot of fans are speculating Hak as Soo Won's heir, but do you think Ju Do and Kye Syuk will accept Hak ( if we assume Soo Won had already told them before). Both Kye Syuk and Ju Doh are Soo Won's most loyal subordinates, will they acknowledge other people as king that easily?. Even Geun Tae seems a bit pissed off about this heir thing. Their (lack of) reaction is interesting.

- Who do you think is in Soo Won's mind when they talk about next heir? Is he really thinking about hak? Aside from Soo won, who has the capacity to be king in this manga?

Ah you bring up a good point! To see a lack of reaction on Kyesook and Joo-doh about Soo-won’s reservations on marriage and an heir imply they’ve already had this discussion before and know more about what is up with Soo-won. It’s hard to tell if they know so far as who Soo-won intends to succeed him though...

I just can’t think that Soo-won has anyone else in mind bedsides Yona (and Hak since they are in love and it’s inevitable they will marry). He has seen the people’s love for her and the influence she has had over solving many of the country’s conflicts so far.
There really isn’t anyone else that could compare.
Sure, I agree we have seen no evidence of her having any skills in the actual administration of ruling a country (especially with Hak). But if Soo-won is dying or something and he doesn’t have much time to search he would choose them. After all, not every ruler comes into power ready. They could learn along the way and with an advisor as you guys say. They are both still teenagers with plenty of time to get better

- citizen of kuuto are really chill, they will cheer at you even after you throw rocks at them lol. I'm still bitter about the fact that Jae ha and Kija didn't suffer any consequences

Yeah I think this chapter shows the dragons are a bit too exalted as holy beings to receive judgement by the general populace lol