TV Game of Thrones (A Song of Ice and Fire - TV Adaption)

[xi0]

We have a separate thread for House of the Dragon now, just in case people were going to watch

TV - House of The Dragon

This Thread is for discussing everything related to it.

mangahelpers.com

 

[kkck]

No, people know Rhaegar "kidnapped" her. That's THE event that triggered Robert's Rebellion. Brandon Stark, Rickard Stark, Jon Arryn's heir, as well as members of House Royce and Mallister were put to death by Aerys II after they came looking for answers concerning Rhaegar's actions. Then he demanded Jon Arryn to kill Ned and Robert (they were his wards) as well and he refused, declaring war on the crown by calling his banners.

I understand your point, but that doesn't explain them supporting Dany either, as he's sister to the man who "betrayed" them. The reality is Doran isn't some hotheaded vengeful moron, he knows who killed his daughter and her children and he wants them dead. He's waited years to do it. He has no real affection for Targaryens as people.

And I have to strongly disagree, they would support literally anyone before a Lannister. I don't really see it as them picking between Aegon, Dany, or Jon. I don't think they'll all be in competition at the same time. Cersei will likely have to flee or be killed when Aegon conquers the Iron Throne. How Dany and Jon figure into that later I'm not really sure. If we go by the show, King's Landing will burn and both Aegon and Dany will most likely die.

True, but the martell's never learned how far rhaegar took things. As in, annulling his marriage to elya and marrying lyana. They just knew what everyone else knew, that he kidnapped lyana. Well, it is possible they knew more if elia managed to pass on more information to them before the mountain got to her. And then, the martels did support the targaryan during the rebellion albeit somewhat unwillingly apparently. In any case, I would still make the point that the shred of uncertainty in all of this is what made them eventually support the targaryans. If they had known for a fact that the marriage was annulled or it became public knowledge I'd think the situation would have been very different. Say, not supporting the targaryan cause at all (though them supporting robert also seems like a stretch at that point).

I mean, if its between the three of them and aegon's identity is confirmed then the martell's will support aegon 100%. Since he is elia's kid. It's more of a question what happens when they have to choose between jon and dany considering they have plenty of reasons to dislike both of them.

 

[xi0]

True, but the martell's never learned how far rhaegar took things. As in, annulling his marriage to elya and marrying lyana. They just knew what everyone else knew, that he kidnapped lyana. Well, it is possible they knew more if elia managed to pass on more information to them before the mountain got to her. And then, the martels did support the targaryan during the rebellion albeit somewhat unwillingly apparently. In any case, I would still make the point that the shred of uncertainty in all of this is what made them eventually support the targaryans. If they had known for a fact that the marriage was annulled or it became public knowledge I'd think the situation would have been very different. Say, not supporting the targaryan cause at all (though them supporting robert also seems like a stretch at that point).

I mean, if its between the three of them and aegon's identity is confirmed then the martell's will support aegon 100%. Since he is elia's kid. It's more of a question what happens when they have to choose between jon and dany considering they have plenty of reasons to dislike both of them.

See, I don't think the nature of Rhaegar and Lyanna's relationship would matter to Doran. Whether he kidnapped and raped her, or he legitimately loved her and married her. Jon exists either way. The Martells made a point to show that they don't hold children accountable for the actions of their family, that's why Myrcella was safe in Dorne (until Darkstar decided otherwise). If you were going to hold Jon accountable for being a product of Rhaegar's second marriage, then you would hold Dany accountable for being Rhaegar's brother. The only reason she had a claim worth supporting is because her older brother's children were/are dead. Doran supports Dany and maybe fAegon because he wants the Lannisters to pay for their crimes against their family. You'll notice that they weren't exactly warm towards the Baratheons, Doran has been biding his time with his plans ever since Elia was killed. Wedding Viserys to Arianne, or Quentyn to Dany... Hell, he'd probably support Jon outright if fAegon didn't exist and he took Arianne as his wife IMO. It would mean people with Martell blood would sit the Iron Throne, as they should have if the rebellion never occurred.

That's true, and I think that is what will happen in the books. Dany isn't going to be fighting Cersei, Aegon will already do that for her. Dany is going to take out Aegon IMO, and that is where the Mad Queen will come from.

 

[M3J]

No, because Bran has no power over the North. If Bran legitimizes someone, Sansa doesn't need to recognize it at all.

The Dragon Has Three Heads is a specific Targaryen prophecy. Dany hears her brother Rhaegar say it during a vision in The House of Undying in Qarth (one of the things not shown in the show). Most likely in reference to Aegon and his sisters. It's why the Targaryen sigil is a three-headed dragon. It could have a lot of different meanings. But at this point the most popular idea is that it's Dany, Aegon, and Jon. Some others people bring up is Bran or Tyrion. We're not sure if they have to be Targaryen, or if they'll be dragonriders.... we don't really know. But it's an important part of The Prince That Was Promised.

Oh true.

That's interesting. Makes me wonder if it's like with religion, where each religion takes a story and adds their own twist to it.

 

[xi0]

That's interesting. Makes me wonder if it's like with religion, where each religion takes a story and adds their own twist to it.

Melisandre mentions TPTWP almost interchangeably with Azor Ahai, so they might be more similar than others. The similar theories aren't linked to religion though, it's more about culture. Azor Ahai is linked to the faith of R'hlorr but it originated in Asshai. It being similar to TPTWP is interesting since Targaryens seem to favor it. There's more than enough evidence that dragons and even Valyrians themselves are from Asshai and the Shadow Lands... so the similarity might not be a coincidence.

 

[Rikudou King]

There are far too many contenders for the throne now. If Jon is accepted as a Targaryen, and Dany, Aegon, or Stannis are no longer in the picture, Bran would be Jon's heir, as his oldest living male relative. And if it's something like the show it won't matter either way if he's chosen for some reason

Why would Jon be accepted as a Targaryen though? While I'm sure that reveal will be coming thanks to Howland Reed still being around somewhere, that doesn't mean it'll be accepted. More to the point, Jon's a bastard, even with that reveal, thus looked down upon by the majority of folk. Going by that logic, Gendry and the rest of Robert's hundred of other bastards all have just as much claim. This also requires that Jon would choose to make Bran his heir, instead of thinking of his own potential children, which we know he did have a wish for when Stannis was making him the offer of becoming lord of Winterfell.

I don't think it's being pushed by the Children, their existence might be their fault but I don't expect them to be allied with them. They're an out of control Frankenstein's monster.

Northern King if that's even a thing. Remember, there is no King in the North after Robb's death. Jon is dead for now. The North becoming independent doesn't even make sense in the show, and I'm not sure how it could be made to make sense in the books if Bran is king. If Jon is king it still makes no sense to me either.

Don't know how much say Dorne would have, I'm expecting Dany to take out Aegon most likely. If Dany dies, who would Dorne support over Jon? There isn't anyone. If Aegon is an impostor, Dorne would not support him IMO. Doran is so willing to support fAegon over Dany because he thinks he is his nephew.

You misunderstand. The belief that the Children are behind this war centers on the idea that the Others aren't some evil undead force, but as their naming implies, simply another group of beings. It's based on GRRM's anti-war beliefs and the idea that he wouldn't name them that given what it means in a sociological sense, and the small clues hinting at there being more to the conflict then it appears. Basically, the Children are the real villains pushing two different people to go to war with each other so that they can claim the spoils.

Technically, there is a northern king cause Robb left a will naming his heir, though he might have just named his mother given the way the conversation went. As for the reasoning behind independence, the same reason most of the other kingdoms would likely split if given the chance, because they can. Without the threat of basically a nuclear weapon, and without any alliances, there's no reason for them to remain joined to a single kingdom.

Dorne has the only other major army at this point in time, so that along would make their words carry weight. And why would Dorne support Jon? They were already on shaky ground with House Targaryen before, and Doran was already pissed with how Rhaegar abandoned his sister to "kidnap" Lyanna. I don't think learning he knocked her up and this child will now be king is gonna go over well. Remember, Dorne only became a part of the Seven Kingdoms through marriage and a bunch of nice concessions. Dorne, out of all the kingdoms, is most likely to go back to independence if given the opportunity and there wouldn't be anything the Iron Throne could do to stop them.

Yeah but here is the thing: Game of thrones characters have a thing were they are all almost surprisingly knowledgeable about westeros' history. As in, an uncanny number of times you can see characters contextualizing stuff which is happening now by explaining something that has happened in the past. And from that we learn an important thing: That westeros has had more or less its current political dynamic for thousands of years (even if we assume noble houses fudge history to their convenience). Certainly the iron throne is relatively new (300 years) but that doesn't change how static their culture appears to be in general. So to me it seems like a pretty big jump to say this minuscule, but important, point in time in westeros history is specifically where the political system gets turned on its head. Overall, events just as important as what we are seeing now happened 300 years ago when aegon took over. And equally important events happened a number of times over the roughly 8000 years of westeros history that we have some knowledge of.

That's a good point, what rheagar did does sound like something that would substantially strain the kingdom's relationship with dorne. if not straight up ruin a relationship that is hundreds of years old. I suppose the question then would be whether jon can get enough people outside the north who aren't dornish so as to maintain his claim.

True, while one can say events repeat themselves, the current situation has enough key differences that change is likely coming. Daenerys alone is quite different from Aegon, and only wants the throne because she believes it's her duty. But she's been shown not caring about being royalty and much preferring the life among the Dothraki. More importantly, she abhors slavery, and serfdom is only a step up from that.

It did strain their relationship, which is why Ella and her children had to be used as hostages to keep Dorne in line, and even that barely worked.

I'm not really understanding the point about straining relationships with Dorne. Everyone already knew Rhaegar and Lyanna were a thing. What would particulars really matter? It would only matter if all three heads of the dragon are around and there's zero chance that will last for long. If Doran held such a grudge, why would he wish to support Dany when her brother betrayed Elia Martell? The same logic sort of applies there, you see? The point is Doran wants Targaryens back in power as revenge against the Lannisters.

Does Doran want to support Dany, or is he simply playing a larger game? Remember, both he and Oberyn had connections all over Essos, including Oberyn's sellsword company. If they actually had wanted to help Viserys and Dany, they could have easily given them the support they needed. Instead, the Princes allowed Viserys to go around begging for help and on the run. And now, the so-call pact relies upon a marriage contact that doesn't have any weight or law behind it, since only lords are able to make them, and only for the stated people. Not to mention, why would Doran wait til now to reveal it, when the Lannisters had been in power for years?

 

[kkck]

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True, while one can say events repeat themselves, the current situation has enough key differences that change is likely coming. Daenerys alone is quite different from Aegon, and only wants the throne because she believes it's her duty. But she's been shown not caring about being royalty and much preferring the life among the Dothraki. More importantly, she abhors slavery, and serfdom is only a step up from that.

It did strain their relationship, which is why Ella and her children had to be used as hostages to keep Dorne in line, and even that barely worked.

Does Doran want to support Dany, or is he simply playing a larger game? Remember, both he and Oberyn had connections all over Essos, including Oberyn's sellsword company. If they actually had wanted to help Viserys and Dany, they could have easily given them the support they needed. Instead, the Princes allowed Viserys to go around begging for help and on the run. And now, the so-call pact relies upon a marriage contact that doesn't have any weight or law behind it, since only lords are able to make them, and only for the stated people. Not to mention, why would Doran wait til now to reveal it, when the Lannisters had been in power for years?

Dany IIRC sees herself as the rightful queen because she is a targaryen. Dany might be different from aegon but... so are most people anyways. Dany is ultimately playing into the system, she isn't doing much of anything to disrupt it. Even her freeing the slaves.... That's just because of her westeros culture. I doubt you'd find a single lord in westeros who objects to freeing slaves. As far as I can tell nothing dany has done or said in the books would really be all that disruptive to the westeros political system if she were to become queen. All she does is reclaim her "rightfull" house seat.

 

[xi0]

Why would Jon be accepted as a Targaryen though? While I'm sure that reveal will be coming thanks to Howland Reed still being around somewhere, that doesn't mean it'll be accepted. More to the point, Jon's a bastard, even with that reveal, thus looked down upon by the majority of folk. Going by that logic, Gendry and the rest of Robert's hundred of other bastards all have just as much claim. This also requires that Jon would choose to make Bran his heir, instead of thinking of his own potential children, which we know he did have a wish for when Stannis was making him the offer of becoming lord of Winterfell.

Well, I did say "if" though. I think a part of the reveal is that Jon actually isn't baseborn - that Rhaegar was married to Lyanna, etc. I think there's a good chance that that isn't a show invention.

Technically, there is a northern king cause Robb left a will naming his heir, though he might have just named his mother given the way the conversation went. As for the reasoning behind independence, the same reason most of the other kingdoms would likely split if given the chance, because they can. Without the threat of basically a nuclear weapon, and without any alliances, there's no reason for them to remain joined to a single kingdom.

Dorne has the only other major army at this point in time, so that along would make their words carry weight. And why would Dorne support Jon? They were already on shaky ground with House Targaryen before, and Doran was already pissed with how Rhaegar abandoned his sister to "kidnap" Lyanna. I don't think learning he knocked her up and this child will now be king is gonna go over well. Remember, Dorne only became a part of the Seven Kingdoms through marriage and a bunch of nice concessions. Dorne, out of all the kingdoms, is most likely to go back to independence if given the opportunity and there wouldn't be anything the Iron Throne could do to stop them.

Well, that hinges on who he named. But even then, the North would need to be taken back from the Boltons/Lannisters in order for it to matter. Let me rephrase, only the North becoming independent while a Stark rules in King's Landing doesn't make sense to me. Of course the most realistic thing is several kingdoms opting out if any do. But then you have to wonder if they'll even be involved in selecting a new ruler if it happens close to how it happened in the show.

Dorne is the only other major army that hasn't committed it's forces either way, yes. But the actual size/strength of Dorne's military is all over the place. It's been lied about for strategic reasons and they have no naval forces.

I don't disagree about Dorne being most likely to be independent. I just don't see Doran being against Jon only because of Rhaegar's actions. If him being king is beneficial to Dorne, I don't see him opposing it. Oberyn is the one that cursed Rhaegar, but Oberyn is dead.

Does Doran want to support Dany, or is he simply playing a larger game? Remember, both he and Oberyn had connections all over Essos, including Oberyn's sellsword company. If they actually had wanted to help Viserys and Dany, they could have easily given them the support they needed. Instead, the Princes allowed Viserys to go around begging for help and on the run. And now, the so-call pact relies upon a marriage contact that doesn't have any weight or law behind it, since only lords are able to make them, and only for the stated people. Not to mention, why would Doran wait til now to reveal it, when the Lannisters had been in power for years?

We know next to nothing about Oberyn's company or if it even exists anymore (unless the whacky theory about the Brave Companions is true), and the Second Sons are already in Dany's forces. The Golden Company is willing to break it's contract with Myr for the first time ever in order to go to Volantis to support Aegon. The implication there is some sort of Blackfyre connection. Nothing similar exists for Oberyn and his connections in Essos IMO. Plus, the entire point of Quentyn's journey was secrecy. If Doran shelled out a shitload of gold to send a sellsword company Dany's way, he'd want some assurances... which he wouldn't really have in order to take the risk. If that info got out he'd be in open rebellion against the crown. That's not the type of risk Doran would take without ever even meeting Dany.

I mean, the marriage pact wouldn't need to be recognized by their adversaries. Might makes right, or so they say. I think Doran intended to keep this plot to himself until he knew Quentyn made contact with Dany. He only revealed it Arianne now in order to keep her in line.

 

[Static]

Did you guys hear about Elden Ring?! It's a collab game between Martin and FromSoftware!

I had my suspicions since Martin had posted on his blog the possibility of a ASOIAF game 'outside of Japan' but didn't think it would be true, let alone this early.

 

[xi0]

There was a rumor some months ago about him collaborating with FromSoftware, and he kind of confirmed it when he mentioned consulting on a game in Japan in a blog post a couple weeks ago.

 

[Rikudou King]

Dany IIRC sees herself as the rightful queen because she is a targaryen. Dany might be different from aegon but... so are most people anyways. Dany is ultimately playing into the system, she isn't doing much of anything to disrupt it. Even her freeing the slaves.... That's just because of her westeros culture. I doubt you'd find a single lord in westeros who objects to freeing slaves. As far as I can tell nothing dany has done or said in the books would really be all that disruptive to the westeros political system if she were to become queen. All she does is reclaim her "rightfull" house seat.

Right she was taught by her brother that as a Targaryen, they should rule. But I don't believe Dany herself cared about the Iron Throne before her attempted poisoning, and then it was largely an act of revenge to retake it. I don't think you could say she's freeing slaves because that's how it is in Westeros, given she only would know what Viserys told her, and he wasn't exactly against slavery. As for disrupting the system in Westeros, I think it would depend on how the nobility first react, as we've seen how vindictive Dany can be to those who oppose her actions, and whether their treatment of the lower class will be accepted by her.

Well, I did say "if" though. I think a part of the reveal is that Jon actually isn't baseborn - that Rhaegar was married to Lyanna, etc. I think there's a good chance that that isn't a show invention.

Wouldn't he still be considered a bastard, since polygamy isn't accepted and is looked down upon, especially by those who worship the Seven.

Well, that hinges on who he named. But even then, the North would need to be taken back from the Boltons/Lannisters in order for it to matter. Let me rephrase, only the North becoming independent while a Stark rules in King's Landing doesn't make sense to me. Of course the most realistic thing is several kingdoms opting out if any do. But then you have to wonder if they'll even be involved in selecting a new ruler if it happens close to how it happened in the show.

Dorne is the only other major army that hasn't committed it's forces either way, yes. But the actual size/strength of Dorne's military is all over the place. It's been lied about for strategic reasons and they have no naval forces.

I don't disagree about Dorne being most likely to be independent. I just don't see Doran being against Jon only because of Rhaegar's actions. If him being king is beneficial to Dorne, I don't see him opposing it. Oberyn is the one that cursed Rhaegar, but Oberyn is dead.

Well that's why I don't believe Bran (or anyone) would take the Iron Throne. Of all the remaining forces currently active, I would say only Stannis would not accept a split kingdom. And true, Dorne's actual force is small then everyone thinks, but since everyone thinks they have a large force, the threat is still there.

Doran was also stated to have been angry at Rhaegar, just better at hiding and waiting. I suppose that's the thing, I don't really see Jon being king being beneficial, especially compared to the three other options Doran has in addition to independence.

We know next to nothing about Oberyn's company or if it even exists anymore (unless the whacky theory about the Brave Companions is true), and the Second Sons are already in Dany's forces. The Golden Company is willing to break it's contract with Myr for the first time ever in order to go to Volantis to support Aegon. The implication there is some sort of Blackfyre connection. Nothing similar exists for Oberyn and his connections in Essos IMO. Plus, the entire point of Quentyn's journey was secrecy. If Doran shelled out a shitload of gold to send a sellsword company Dany's way, he'd want some assurances... which he wouldn't really have in order to take the risk. If that info got out he'd be in open rebellion against the crown. That's not the type of risk Doran would take without ever even meeting Dany.

I mean, the marriage pact wouldn't need to be recognized by their adversaries. Might makes right, or so they say. I think Doran intended to keep this plot to himself until he knew Quentyn made contact with Dany. He only revealed it Arianne now in order to keep her in line.

That argument could work for Dany, but what about Viserys? The idea that Doran had this master plan involving Viserys and Dany, while also doing nothing to make sure they stay alive, much less survive, seems really out of character for someone as smart as Doran. He would basically be relying on random chance that not only did they survive, but they would manage to actually gather the forces needed to take the throne before recieving any help from him. Doesn't make much sense, especially when he had the means to supply them with the means to take the throne from the beginning. And Dorne is massive, so it's not like he couldn't have hidden them closer. Then there's the question of why now? The argument about revenge against the Lannisters make sense before, but the Lannisters are already beaten down at this point, and the one person he would have wanted revenge against the most is dead. Plus if there was a plan in motion already, I doubt Oberyn would have went to King's Landing for revenge when he did.

The marriage pact isn't recognized by ally either. Barristan points out that it has no force behind it, nor incentive to be accepted.

 

[xi0]

Wouldn't he still be considered a bastard, since polygamy isn't accepted and is looked down upon, especially by those who worship the Seven.

Based on what we know from the books, yes. Rhaegar's marriage is annulled in the show though, and that's what makes Jon a Targaryen. I guess we have to ask ourselves whether that is a show contrivance, and if it is, what purpose did it serve? To further Jon's role as a stand-in for fAegon? I don't really see that being the case, since D&D repeatedly show no care towards the political and social machinations that feature in GRRM's work. If they had, Ellaria Sand and her daughters would have been put to the sword after killing the Martells, Same with Cersei when she blew up the Sept of Baelor. I'd lean more towards Jon actually not being baseborn at all, but being forced into living life as one. That sounds exactly like classic GRRM to me.

Well that's why I don't believe Bran (or anyone) would take the Iron Throne. Of all the remaining forces currently active, I would say only Stannis would not accept a split kingdom. And true, Dorne's actual force is small then everyone thinks, but since everyone thinks they have a large force, the threat is still there.

Doran was also stated to have been angry at Rhaegar, just better at hiding and waiting. I suppose that's the thing, I don't really see Jon being king being beneficial, especially compared to the three other options Doran has in addition to independence.

Dorne has almost always been a defensive kingdom in nature. The only time they've displayed an aggressive nature is when supporting Targaryens. I just don't see Doran Martell calling his banners to march North to fight Jon, if such a situation ever occurred. Which I doubt will every happen, to be fair. I don't really see Jon ruling.

That argument could work for Dany, but what about Viserys? The idea that Doran had this master plan involving Viserys and Dany, while also doing nothing to make sure they stay alive, much less survive, seems really out of character for someone as smart as Doran. He would basically be relying on random chance that not only did they survive, but they would manage to actually gather the forces needed to take the throne before recieving any help from him. Doesn't make much sense, especially when he had the means to supply them with the means to take the throne from the beginning. And Dorne is massive, so it's not like he couldn't have hidden them closer. Then there's the question of why now? The argument about revenge against the Lannisters make sense before, but the Lannisters are already beaten down at this point, and the one person he would have wanted revenge against the most is dead. Plus if there was a plan in motion already, I doubt Oberyn would have went to King's Landing for revenge when he did.

The marriage pact isn't recognized by ally either. Barristan points out that it has no force behind it, nor incentive to be accepted.

How exactly does Doran have the means to ensure their survival though? They fled to Essos for good reason, as Robert was obsessed with having them killed. Like I mentioned before, there are clear risks in openly doing this. He took enough risks making the pact with Willem Darry with the Sealord of Bravos present. There might have been more collaboration but Darry died not long after. Illyrio seemed to help Viserys and Dany after that, but as we know now, Illyrio had his own plans with Aegon.

Barristan's opinions on stately matters are kind of naive IMO. Either that or he said what he said for the benefit of the boy. Quentyn informed Dany about the pact in order to prove he was acting in good faith, it wasn't about it being some sort of legally binding document. If Dany sailed to Westeros with Quentyn and they married, that would be that. It didn't go down that way though because of Dany marrying Hizdahr out of necessity. She herself says it could have been different if he had arrived sooner.

Are you trying to imply that Doran has some other sort of motivation other than revenge? I can't really see what that would be, other than marrying into the ruling family of Westeros.

 

[Rikudou King]

Based on what we know from the books, yes. Rhaegar's marriage is annulled in the show though, and that's what makes Jon a Targaryen. I guess we have to ask ourselves whether that is a show contrivance, and if it is, what purpose did it serve? To further Jon's role as a stand-in for fAegon? I don't really see that being the case, since D&D repeatedly show no care towards the political and social machinations that feature in GRRM's work. If they had, Ellaria Sand and her daughters would have been put to the sword after killing the Martells, Same with Cersei when she blew up the Sept of Baelor. I'd lean more towards Jon actually not being baseborn at all, but being forced into living life as one. That sounds exactly like classic GRRM to me.

Obviously nothing can be said to 100 percent, but as far as we know, there are specifically requirements for an annulment that doesn't fit here, and it couldn't be done "in secret". I do feel like the annulment was a show invention, simply because Rhaegar was attempting to fulfill prophecy and either that didn't require require the children to be by his wife, in which there's no need to marry Lyanna, or it did, in which annulling his marriage to Elia would ruin that. The whole marriage in Dorne by the High Septon also seems highly unlikely. I would imagine if they got married, it would have been with the Old Gods.

Dorne has almost always been a defensive kingdom in nature. The only time they've displayed an aggressive nature is when supporting Targaryens. I just don't see Doran Martell calling his banners to march North to fight Jon, if such a situation ever occurred. Which I doubt will every happen, to be fair. I don't really see Jon ruling.

And even in that situation, it was only because Elia was being used as a hostage. So I agree, Dorne likely wouldn't actually go to war over Jon, but putting out the idea that they would is the kind of thing they would do. More then likely, they would simply secede.

How exactly does Doran have the means to ensure their survival though? They fled to Essos for good reason, as Robert was obsessed with having them killed. Like I mentioned before, there are clear risks in openly doing this. He took enough risks making the pact with Willem Darry with the Sealord of Bravos present. There might have been more collaboration but Darry died not long after. Illyrio seemed to help Viserys and Dany after that, but as we know now, Illyrio had his own plans with Aegon.

Barristan's opinions on stately matters are kind of naive IMO. Either that or he said what he said for the benefit of the boy. Quentyn informed Dany about the pact in order to prove he was acting in good faith, it wasn't about it being some sort of legally binding document. If Dany sailed to Westeros with Quentyn and they married, that would be that. It didn't go down that way though because of Dany marrying Hizdahr out of necessity. She herself says it could have been different if he had arrived sooner.

Are you trying to imply that Doran has some other sort of motivation other than revenge? I can't really see what that would be, other than marrying into the ruling family of Westeros.

Same way Littlefinger has protected Sansa, hiding them in an isolated castle with trusted allies. Dorne is huge but sparsely populated, so keeping them a secret wouldn't be hard. And Dorne would be the least likely place Robert would have looked, we were specifically told after the war he kept his distance. The only real wrinkle would be Varys' little birds, but that too could be solved by isolation.

But Quentyn was offering something that he didn't have, Dorne isn't weak but they don't have a large of a force that was being offered to Dany. I doubt she would have been happy to be lied to. More importantly, the pact wasn't really necessary if the goal was a marriage offer. It didn't add anything to the situation.

I do think Doran has more on his mind then just revenge. A part of that likely is marrying into the ruling family, as we literally see him potentially setting up each of his children with a potential ruler (Don't forget, Oberyn also pushed the idea of Myrcella being made queen, and I question him doing that if the only plan was to support Viserys/Dany or even doing it without Doran's input), But I definitely think he's playing a greater game, because at this point, Doran has more or less gotten his revenge. Nearly everyone involved with his sister's death has been killed, and the Lannister's are on their last leg. He has pretty much gotten his revenge without having to ally with anyone.

 

[syx]

I know I'm late to the game, but I don't want to withhold these stuff from you.

Source

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Source

Bran - the ultimate villain
Video

Greta vs. Westeros
Video

 

[xi0]

They also cancelled the first prequel Pilot that was ordered, The Long Night. Seems like it wasn't well-received. I think that's a good thing, since it seemed more original than something based on Fire & Blood. Making a series based on it will probably be an easier task since all of important stuff has already been laid out.

People speculate that it might be an Anthology-type series, since F&B spans several hundreds years and contains many stories. I'm not sure about that choice or if just focusing on an event like Greens vs Blacks (The Dance of Dragons) or the whole Blackfyre saga is best. But I guess if it is an anthology it could start with Aegon's Conquest too.

 

[gnut]

Gary....is there in-depth history of the 1st Andals?
Would love to see more primeval Weteros...and the early Starks.

 

[xi0]

Gary....is there in-depth history of the 1st Andals?
Would love to see more primeval Weteros...and the early Starks.

Not "in-depth" necessarily, but there's a good chunk of it in The World of Ice and Fire. A lot of information about Starks too.

 

[gnut]

Not "in-depth" necessarily, but there's a good chunk of it in The World of Ice and Fire. A lot of information about Starks too.

I'd watch that xD
Kinda off the inbred dragon nutcases

 

[xi0]

Uhhh... still not really sure about Matt Smith playing Daemon Targaryen, and I don't really know why Corlys Velaryon is black. A Baratheon might have made more sense, if you were going to pick a house with blood of old Valyria in it.

 

[kkck]

Matt smith looks like an off brand LOTR elf.

 

[xi0]

He looks like a more stoic version of Viserys from the first show. Nothing about him really screams Daemon to me, but hey, maybe he'll blow me away.