Quarterfinal Gildarts Clive vs Wahl Icht

[Crimson Ice]

sill Wahl for me. don't care for the hype or anything else until he appears and shows us what he can do.

This. In my books, Gildarts isn't Spirggan tier unless Tenrou Gildarts who was worn out completely after fighting Bluenote was Spirggan tier.

 

[Tirl]

M.Attack: Gildarts << Wahl
F.Attack: Gildarts >>> Wahl
Defense: Gildarts >> Wahl
Stamina: Gildarts >>> Wahl
Speed: Gildarts <<< Wahl
Versatility: Gildarts = Wahl
Intelligence: Gildarts >> Wahl
MP: Gildarts >>> Wahl (Sorry all who think that spriggans have more mp, Gild for now is strongest mage on Ishgar side and he doesnt need to train for past year do defeat embarrass like Wahl)

Gildarts >> Wahl

Gildarts will win.
Difficult - 0-2\10

Gildarts can destroy much of Wahl spells, he has strange to destroy mount\island with his casual simply punch, and he made Natsu...

Spoiler: Gil aura

It is just part of his aura, like mages scared when meet Brandish and August. So, it is just small part of it.

 

[Brandish μ]

I think Wahl's being underrated vastly here. I can't see him being pushed to high diff let alone facing the prospect of losing.

Unfortunately for Gildarts, he's stuck with pre-skip feats and has virtually no hype (you could gleam some from him when Cana said she tracked him down - maybe there is some training there). You'd have to hype Gildarts generously to put him in the same class as Wahl.

Acknowledging the difference in power in X792
Hades was defeated by Laxus who was almost spent. Bluenote was oneshotted by Natsu. The GoI and Jura were defeated by God Serena. All 6 of those characters by pre-skip standards can give Gildarts a run for his money. Heck the GoI are hyped enough to be above Gildarts. Jura could probably give Gildarts a high diff fight (give or take). Hades too, without Heart, should at least be able to push Gildarts to a high diff fight. There is a huge difference in power between pre-skip and current characters, and Wahl is outside the scope of power for a pre-skip character. Tanks like Mard Geer should be rather easily accounted for by powerhouses in the current arc.

Gildarts v Wahl
In CQC Gildarts is very strong, but Wahl can basically match Laxus until the latter uses Red Lightning. The physicality of the punches Laxus/Wahl used were on a different level than Gildarts/Bluenote in my opinion, though the effect of Gildarts/Bluenote's magic clashing was certainly impressive. Wahl would likely dictate terms here, but I can see Gildarts standing his ground. I'd back Wahl's Assault Mode power over Empyrean here though.

Gildarts durability and endurance are still relevant, but it's likely not Spriggan tier. He's probably on the same level as Jura or the GoI. So if Wahl went into Assault mode, Gildarts could endure a few of those attacks, but after 4 or more I'd say it's very unlikely he continues or can continue unencumbered.

Disassembly would work if the attacks are done at range and Gildarts is able to do something about it. Gildarts disassembled a roar at medium range, but at close range he cannot do this. Moreover he used this against an opponent who was leagues below him in Tenrou Natsu. Saying he could disassemble all/most of Wahl's moves isn't acknowledging the attack prowess of Wahl imo, and it's assuming that Gildarts will always be in a position to defend. And Wahl can spam large attacks thanks to his vast MP.

I think anyone claiming Gildarts wins less than high-diff is either hyping Gildarts far too much, or is saying Wahl is about as capable as Bluenote. Pre-skip Gildarts is at best Hyberion's level, someone Wahl could dispatch of rather easily. With some hype I can put Gildarts above that, to the point of giving Wahl a mid diff fight. Now if Gildarts actually made a comeback it would change things and I reckon he'd be above Wahl... but he hasn't yet.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 15, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 15, 2016 ---

It is just part of his aura, like mages scared when meet Brandish and August. So, it is just small part of it.

I think we're forgetting that Gray compared Brandish' MP to Makarov's. This indicated Brandish > Makarov > Gildarts for MP. Fighting ability is a different matter though, Gildarts would likely defeat Makarov.

Also, it's current Natsu who is being scared. He's already sensed Gildart's MP and learned a lesson from that. When Hades released the power of his Eye back on Tenrou that amount of MP was enough to scare Erza. Hades MP (w/Heart) would almost certainly be above Gildarts but Natsu remained calm thanks to Gildarts lesson. So, it took the immense MP of someone like Brandish to actually scare Natsu a little bit, and he is obviously much more powerful now.

That said sensing MP has only become a big deal in this arc, and it's mainly to hype the Spriggans. So I don't factor this in a great deal.

 

[GokuSSJG]

Gildarts is soooooo overhyped that its not even believable. Wahl take this unless he shows us something.

 

[Tirl]

This indicated Brandish > Makarov > Gildarts for MP. Fighting ability is a different matter though, Gildarts would likely defeat Makarov.

Gildarts always been above Makarov in MP. Like Gild >> Makarov. + Makarov has his high limit of training while Gild still "young".
In manga Gild never show his full power. Makarov said that Jura on GMG can give Gild a mid battle. But Laxus beat him and Gild ofc far above Laxus. So all Makarov's words about Gildarts are just his UNknowledge (maybe this word is incorrect, but "ignorance" is not right here)

 

[Hermit]

Wahl takes this...Assault Wahl simply has more offensive power than Gildarts...also base Wahl can assess Gildarts' weakness and make a Cana robot which I don't think Gildarts can fight...

 

[Arjuna]

Gildarts can easily destroy Wahl's proxy Bots.But against Real Wahl he will have face his lasers,Rail gun and Fire Attacks.So Wahl wins high difficulty.Makarov believed GMG Jura's MP was on the level of Gildarts.So he lags behind a Spriggan level.He may be stronger than before but until tgen Wahl wins.

 

[Nemispelled]

Do you guys know what portrayal is?

Saying stuff like "Gildartz has shown us nothing" is inaccurate in itself. Obviously Gildartz has had little feats, but that doesn't automatically mean he is weaker than Wahl.


I think Mashima made it clear enough that Gildartz is one of the strongest in the Fairy Tail Guild.


He has been Natsu's mentor figure the entire series up until now.


There is almost no reason to assume that Gildartz all of a sudden slacked and fell way behind over the last 1 year.


It's highly unlikely that Gildartz became a fodder when he was always leagues/tiers above Natsu since the beginning of Fairy Tail.





The problem that I see in this tournament is that the majority of the members depend solely on

- Manga Scans/Pages

- Proof

- Hardcore Evidence



These same words are repeated every single day.



Those "manga scans/pages" and "evidence" that you speak of are RESOURCES.


They are NOT the DETERMINING FACTORS to a battle.





Battles are won by more than tangible pages.


What we see may not be everything there is to it.


A good battle determiner is a person who uses common sense and abstract simulation/logic.


They are not dependent on "manga scans/pages only".


That's a resource, not a given factor.







After saying this, here is how the actual portrayal goes:


** Look at the actual difference between their portrayal.





GILDARTZ


- Always seen to be Natsu's mentor figure. Natsu looks up to him and respects his power since the beginning of the series.

- His character was heavily stressed to be the most powerful FT Mage because he is the only wizard ever known to take SS-Class Quests and Century-Long Quests.


- His portrayal in the entire series goes without saying. Besides Acnologia, he is arguably ranked #2 on most hyped.




WAHL


- Wahl was beaten by a sick Laxus whose element Wahl was immune to. If Laxus was not sick and had another element, Wahl would have been a goner very quickly.


Mashima did this on purpose to show that Wahl is not insanely powerful.


Although he is a Spriggan, the fact that he couldn't beat an opponent with a disadvantage clearly shows that he was not meant to be extremely skillfull, in contrast to Gildartz who was portrayed to be just that.





In conclusion, to those that vote Wahl:


I highly encourage you to consider changing your vote. Nobody is going to attack you for it, especially if you do it secretly.

It's a blind poll, so nobody can tell, especially me.


Going off manga pages/scans shouldn't be what you use to determine the victor of the battle.



Just because you haven't seen it... it doesn't mean that you can negate it.

 

[Hermit]

Do you guys know what portrayal is?

Saying stuff like "Gildartz has shown us nothing" is inaccurate in itself. Obviously Gildartz has had little feats, but that doesn't automatically mean he is weaker than Wahl.


I think Mashima made it clear enough that Gildartz is one of the strongest in the Fairy Tail Guild.


He has been Natsu's mentor figure the entire series up until now.


There is almost no reason to assume that Gildartz all of a sudden slacked and fell way behind over the last 1 year.


It's highly unlikely that Gildartz became a fodder when he was always leagues/tiers above Natsu since the beginning of Fairy Tail.





The problem that I see in this tournament is that the majority of the members depend solely on

- Manga Scans/Pages

- Proof

- Hardcore Evidence



These same words are repeated every single day.



Those "manga scans/pages" and "evidence" that you speak of are RESOURCES.


They are NOT the DETERMINING FACTORS to a battle.





Battles are won by more than tangible pages.


What we see may not be everything there is to it.


A good battle determiner is a person who uses common sense and abstract simulation/logic.


They are not dependent on "manga scans/pages only".


That's a resource, not a given factor.







After saying this, here is how the actual portrayal goes:


** Look at the actual difference between their portrayal.





GILDARTZ


- Always seen to be Natsu's mentor figure. Natsu looks up to him and respects his power since the beginning of the series.

- His character was heavily stressed to be the most powerful FT Mage because he is the only wizard ever known to take SS-Class Quests and Century-Long Quests.


- His portrayal in the entire series goes without saying. Besides Acnologia, he is arguably ranked #2 on most hyped.




WAHL


- Wahl was beaten by a sick Laxus whose element Wahl was immune to. If Laxus was not sick and had another element, Wahl would have been a goner very quickly.


Mashima did this on purpose to show that Wahl is not insanely powerful.


Although he is a Spriggan, the fact that he couldn't beat an opponent with a disadvantage clearly shows that he was not meant to be extremely skillfull, in contrast to Gildartz who was portrayed to be just that.





In conclusion, to those that vote Wahl:


I highly encourage you to consider changing your vote. Nobody is going to attack you for it, especially if you do it secretly.

It's a blind poll, so nobody can tell, especially me.


Going off manga pages/scans shouldn't be what you use to determine the victor of the battle.



Just because you haven't seen it... it doesn't mean that you can negate it.

I'm sorry but no,I think you're severely underestimating Wahl and overestimating Laxus a little here...even a full health Laxus won't one shot Wahl...case in point,at the beginning of their battle Laxus was at full health and his blows did nothing to Wahl...even physical blows...Wahl isn't as weak as you are insinuating...even the lightning immunity...it isn't such an overwhelming advantage that if its removed Wahl will get one shotted instantly....
My point is,Wahl isn't as weak as you make him out to be...at all...

 

[Rain Cloud]

I mean, just looking at the Traveling Alone II shows that even with "second origin", Tartarus Natsu suffered the exact same fate as tenrou Natsu. And Gildarts knocked out an entire mountain easily. At that point, I speculate that he's still around or above current Laxus. I'm not saying Wahl can't defeat Gildarts. His etherion cannon was incredible, and he's had excellent portrayal in comparison to most spriggans, but if Laxus can defeat Wahl with two disadvantages (lightning immunity, and missing internal organs) I highly doubt Gildarts would be unable to find a way to win. From a writer's standpoint, the only reason to keep Gildarts away for so long is to prevent him from being in battles that would make our MCs presence and development null. For example if Gildarts was at the GMG, he could have solo'd the all of the guilds (assuming he was still a cut or so above Laxus, which again is speculation).

And besides, Laxus's mercury fulminate attack looked like a horizontal version of Gildart's Crushing Evil Spreading the Truth: Empyreon, and in terms of power portrayal, pretty equal.

Wahl just lost too easily to Laxus the moment Laxus got over his lightning immunity, which Gildarts doesn't have to deal with in the first place. And that travelling alone chapter, though short, is enough to power-scale.

Gildarts

 

[Geralt of Rivia]

Wahl would have about as much trouble with Pre-TS Gildarts as he would with Current Jura (keeping portrayal in mind). Which wouldn't really be any trouble at all. Assault Mode or not.
Hyberion is much stronger than Current Jura. He's quite a bit above Wolfeim and Warrod too. He was the only one who actually affected God Serena. And Assault Wahl should be comfortably above Hyberion being one of the stronger Spriggan shown so far imo.

Also, I don't buy Current Jura being GoI level just because he was lying on the ground alongside them against Serena.
Wendy and Lucy were seemingly in the same shape Natsu, Gray and Erza were against Hades too. That doesn't mean they were on the same level as them, though.

Spoiler

Lucy and Happy were still conscious like Gray and Natsu were after Zero was done with them, still doesn't mean they were on the same level as the other two.

Spoiler

Wendy wasn't even close to Natsu and Gajeel's level yet she was somehow still in the game against Dorma Anim.

Spoiler

The GoI were always portrayed to be above Jura. Even in this current arc. There's no proof Jura went down at the same time the other GoI did in their off-panel fight v Serena. It's very possible Jura took a few spells and couldn't go on anymore while the GoI took 5~15 and only then collapsed and what we saw was the end result of all of them lying on the ground. Jura himself said he was pretty much useless in that fight, anyway.

Spoiler

Pre-TS Gildarts is no match for Assault or even Base Wahl. If Gildarts improved as much as Laxus did though, he'd have no problem taking him down. But I'd rather keep speculations to a minimum, so until Gildarts shows up and proves he's still up there, I'd go with Wahl.

 

[GokuSSJG]

lol now people will persuade other people to vote for the other character because they say so.

Wahl and Laxus are underestimated here while Gildarts is overestimated. Laxus was heavily handicapped against Wahl because Wahl was 100% immune to lightning. Laxus' punches just knocked back Wahl while the lightning behind the punch was 100% nullified (while being sick). we saw Laxus' nuke which was his casual and weakest attack which doesn't even have a name. imagine what would happen to Wahl if he wasn't immune. after he found a way to bypass his immunity he was one shotted.

Wahl can summon many bots here to distract Gildarts while Wahl charges up his Etherion or Anti - Material Magic Cannon and defeats Gildarts. his Assault mode would be enough because Gildarts didn't show much of his strength.

 

[Tirl]

Wahl can summon many bots here to distract Gildarts while Wahl charges up his Etherion or Anti - Material Magic Cannon and defeats Gildarts. his Assault mode would be enough because Gildarts didn't show much of his strength.

Gildarts blow up mountain\island. Wahl's bots nothing for him.
And why you think that Gild cant negate Wahl shots?? He destroed even Black Hole

 

[GokuSSJG]

Gildarts blow up mountain\island. Wahl's bots nothing for him.
And why you think that Gild cant negate Wahl shots?? He destroed even Black Hole

he can just summon Cana and he is done for. no damage here.

Bluenote is non factor here and his Black Hole is not a real Black Hole. its ridiculous to even mention him here. Etherion does a far bigger damage than Gildarts if you consider AoE damage.

 

[kira]

if wahl got taken out by an element he was supposed to be immune to then I don't see how he's gonna survive gildarts' firepower. the guy made natsu give up by his sheer aura and made natsu stop wanting to train. even if it was at the start of the 1 year skip, I still think gildarts got stronger as he seemed to have been going on a training journey as well. I don't know how strong wahl's etherion is, but if gildarts managed to survive against acno, I doubt he'll be taken out by any of wahl's spells. natsu was even itching to fight august! I'm not saying gildarts is stronger than august(until we see proof!) it was the start of the skip that they had a friendly bout after all.

unless you include gags. summoning hot babes will not work. if anything, it might just piss gildarts and one shot wahl. :P

 

[Char]

I strongly agree with @Nemispelled here.

I also agree with @Geralt of Rivia in that the fact that mages fall against the same opponent doesn't directly put them all on the same level. Very nice pages to exemplify. I mean it's always been clear to me that the GoI are exponentially more powerful. Hyberion >>>>> Wolfheim >>> Warrod >> Jura or something along those lines. People tend to think of the GoI as 3 Juras, making it God Serena vs 4x Jura. It's not like that changes a lot though, they still lost to Base Serena in round 1, and seemingly had the upper hand in round 2; although when Serena got a little serious they were fodderized.

Although the portrayal of all Spriggans is to be equally powerful except for August and Irene, battles and feats in them have showed us there are more powerful and weaker Spriggans. IMHO, Wahl is below God Serena. I don't see Laxus winning against God Serena; not because of a counter/weakness thing, but just because God Serena is superior to me.

I mean, I think that even Hyberion would've given Wahl a good battle, even pushed him to high difficulty. People will most likely never accept such a thing since, portrayal wise, God Serena = Wahl and therefore, Wahl >>>>>>>>> Hyberion.

Glidartz, as has very well been pointed out, has one of the best portrayals in the entire series. Like, literally, he's always been the strongest or second strongest mage in Fairy Tail. During the GMG we simply assumed Laxus was superior because Glidartz was not shown. In my head, thanks to portrayal and growth ratio/powerscaling, Glidartz was stronger than Laxus during the GMG/Tartaros events.

It is only now, in Alvarez, where I could actually grasp the concept of Laxus being AT THE SAME LEVEL of Glidartz even if Glidartz has trained this year. Just for the concept of 'age', and if 'prime' has anything to do with it, then Glidartz's growth ratio shouldn't be as great as Laxus'.

However, I'm extremely sure that Glidartz will make a comeback being vastly superior to his before-timeskip self, and being slightly superior to Laxus, or more than just slightly.

On a less gag-gy note, I'd like to add that the weakness of a beloved one (Elfman for Mira) was just a gag. Glidartz may have reservations on actually defeating a machina that looks like her daughter, but he should/would be able to overcome the gag in order to save the world...

 

[Takuan]

You guys' posts (@Nemispelled, @kira, @Char, and others) gave the exact reasons why i'm voting for Gildarts. Thanks =)

I can understand why people wouldn't want to vote for Gildarts because of his lack of feats. But for someone who has been hyped the entired series as being leagues above Natsu, i don't see why his portrayal shouldn't be taken into consideration.
As @kira pointed out, Gildarts was seemingly going for a training journey at the start of the one year. There's no reaason to assume that he turned into Droy all of a sudden due to lacking off.

And this gag about Gildarts losing to Wahl's robot of Cana doesn't make any sense. It's like saying Mira would lose 1v1 to Elfman.

 

[BluePegasus]

Gildarts is absolutely not going to win this.

The only thing Wahl has to do is to create a Weakness robot so Gildarts magic becomes restricted. Then Wahl has all the time to load his Etherion cannon and destroy him with it.

Wahl wins low diff.

 

[Tirl]

he can just summon Cana and he is done for. no damage here.

Why? Gildarts noob? He just crash her.

 

[GokuSSJG]

Why? Gildarts noob? He just crash her.

he summons it in secret without Gildarts knowing. he won't even notice.