Quarterfinal Gildarts Clive vs Wahl Icht

[Arjuna]

I know that Acno didnt oneshot country, but he still destroy it with his power, not hax like Brandish or Dimaria.
When August and others destroyed a country? They just go across country and maybe kill thence people (in manga Worren said that 1m army go from east, I think it was mistake but what if not?).

I didnt say that Wahl is not city lvl, his etherion maybe can blow city. I was argue for another points.
And where in hell Sting is city lvl???? On GMG he was weaker than Natsu who is not city lvl.

Other people said that.
As you say Wahl etherion is mountain lvl (well mountain is equal to city, but if mountain needs strong attack, city needs huge aoe), than Gildarts must be stronger than him. Etherion is strongest spell of Wahl while Gildarts blow low-mid mountain with simple punch

i)Sting overpowered a city buster attack from a city buster canon with his roar in "Twin Dragons of Sabertooth".His roar should be stronger than that attack to overpower it.I brought this to prove Wahl can do better feats.
ii)Destroying a mountain takes more energy than a city.According to powerscale
Mountain level>City level>Town level>Multi City Block Levels.

 

[Kacchan]

Let's not be confused by the AoE of the Magic and the damage it can dealt. Wahl's Etherion might be smaller than the usual. It doesn't mean that it's just as strong as Jupiter. Etherion >>> Jupiter

 

[DAIMorrigan]

Wahl takes this imo.

 

[kira]

there's a weakness to every magic but there's also a limit to every magic. Mira might be weak to DeS magic but wahl isn't capable of creating one. I doubt he's capable of creating one with Bairo's capability to completely negate gildarts magic or anyone. otherwise he could have just created puppets that negate magic and render every mage on FT magic-less. I don't see him pushing gildarts to the extent where gildarts can't move and he can charge that etherion cannon to finish him off but gildart's firepower should be enough to beat wahl who got defeated by a stronger version of an element that he's supposed to be immune to.

 

[Tirl]

or illusionary magic (macbeth)

It is not weakness. Macbeth's magic works on eyes, so it works on all people if they are not blind. Gildarts has only one weakness - Bairo. And there is no one who is same him. Wahl can make bot with antimagic but that antimagic will be allow on bots too, so they are cant exist.

Not all magic have weakness. Yeah, Bayro is weakness for all magic, but forget it. How robot with black magic can be trouble for Evergreen??? How robot with light magic can negate Bixlow magic?? And when the hell Bixlow got black magic? So, why Bixlow cant use his soul kids to control all robots?
Why Lisanna lose to strength robot? Bs she is fast? She is not fast after all and she has bunny soul which big like Elfman. How Elfman lose to speed robot? His beast in far past defeated Mira... How Gray lose to fire? He able to freeze Hell's Flame of Rufus.
Those weakness robots are ridiculus.

 

[Kacchan]

Wahl Icht + His Proxy Bot + Weakness-created Bots VS Gildarts. It took Raijinshu + Ichiya to defeat the Proxy Bot and some of weakness-created bots. The proxybot can even explode. Gildarts would have a hard fight.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Really?

Because which is a better feat?



Beating Natsu without laying a finger on him.


or


Losing to Laxus even after going full power.




And I don't want the bullshit of "You can't compare the two" because both are in their respective timeskips, so it it fair:


Tenrou Gildartz vs. Tenrou Natsu


Alvarez Wahl vs. Alvarez Laxus



It's pretty fair.

Uggh im getting tired with these shitty replies. Pushing Current Laxus to high did is wayyyyy better than than stomping Tenrou Natsu

You can't compare the two, then both being in their time respective time skips doesn't matter. Laxus vs Wahl are two top tiers fighting eacother, Gildarts vs Natsu is a top tier vs a mid tier. Stupid comparison and Wahl still has better feats.

 

[Brandish μ]

@Brandish I think you're mistaken on the Wahl cancelling Particle types...Freed's Runes aren't made of particles...they are runes...the only particles Wahl cancelled were Magic Barrier Particles...and that's solely because he had auto-targeted Laxus as soon as he entered Assault Form...
Also,pretty sure Mavis called Wahl's magic 'Nullification Magic',not 'Magic Barrier Particle cancelling Magic'
There is no way in hell Gildarts is tanking an Etherion cannon...seriously?Its freaking ETHERION here..

Well I assume that runes are made of magic particles. Mavis assumed there was a magic canceler when there was a hole in the Jutsu Shiki. And when Wahl used this against Laxus he called the spell/weapon a 'particle canceler' (from the Crunchyroll translation). So it took out the Jutsu Shiki and anti-magic particles, and is called a particle canceler, so I just followed that logic to assume Justu Shiki is made of particles.

I could be wrong, and there's a good chance since I'm only using the name of Wahl's weapon to make an assumption.

I doubt anyone is tanking Etherion. But that anti-matter cannon that Christina stopped is definitely tankable. The power of that anti-matter cannon is a lot below Jupiter, as seen when Ajeel scattered Jupiter it took out a lot of Alvarez' ships.

 

[Char]

Every magic in ft has a weakness, otherwise a magic without flaws is god-like!
For example Gildarts' crush magic can only destroy things with a solid or at least a physical form. So against negation magic (Byro) or illusionary magic (macbeth) his power is useless! Gildarts has no feats that he can use a different magic and it's also unsure if he could cancel an illusion spell ( Erza only could do that 'cause of her artificial eye)
Mirajane turns into demons when she activates her take-over, so any kind of devil-slayer magic (Gray, Silver) is her counter. Besides when she uses her take-over, she has incredible speed, high mp and great attack power but her defense and durability abilities are low!

You are right. But let me put it this way:
Element based magic has weaknesses: the opposite element.
CQC based magic has weaknesses: if you're strong but slow, your weakness is speed; if you're fast but lack offensive power, your weakness is offensive power. But if you're like mira, with both attack and speed, then you can easily dodge enemies and hurt them. So there's seemingly no weakness here.

In some cases, the only "possible" weakness is for your opponent to be superior to you. That is to say, the weakness machina sould be stronger/faster than Mira, and since it was not possible due to the limitations of the machinas, the most suitable option for it was to create an elfman machina. The machina couldn't use devil slaying magic either, so it was not an option.

So, of course, every magic "should" have a weakness, but if your opponent cannot make up for it, then it's useless. Think of Dimaria. Now that Urtear is no more, who could counter her timestop? No-one, pretty much. And Wahl cannot create an anti time-stop machina, can he?

So, as you very well point out, Crash magic has weaknesses, but they are not 'direct' weaknesses (water vs fire), rather collateral weaknesses (antimagic is the weakness of all magic, if you put it that way / illusionary magic is not a counter for any magic, it's just a magic from which you cannot protect yourself).

Even without magic, Glidartz CQC abilities are just simply absurde. I mean one punch of his, without even trying, is ridiculously strong.

 

[kkck]

I am going for wal itch. Overwhelmingly easy victory at that. Wal is a freaking springan, the power gildarts has shown so far is simply fodder to them in general. It is plausible gildarts has grown in strength over the past year however that is not something that has appeared in the manga so far. Gildarts as we last saw him would not even win against natsu, he is certainly not beating any springan. Gildarts looses as fodder.

 

[Char]

Let's not be confused by the AoE of the Magic and the damage it can dealt. Wahl's Etherion might be smaller than the usual. It doesn't mean that it's just as strong as Jupiter. Etherion >>> Jupiter

How can you be so sure? We didn't see the effect of that etherion.

I am going for wal itch. Overwhelmingly easy victory at that. Wal is a freaking springan, the power gildarts has shown so far is simply fodder to them in general. It is plausible gildarts has grown in strength over the past year however that is not something that has appeared in the manga so far. Gildarts as we last saw him would not even win against natsu, he is certainly not beating any springan. Gildarts looses as fodder.

It's worth mentioning we are giving Glidartz the benefit of the doubt and in this thread, most likely all of those who vote for Glidartz, me included, are taking into account that he's undergone the same progression as the other powerhouses. So mostly I'm putting Glidartz at the same level or slgihtly above Laxus'. So we're powerscaling.

That also happened in the God Serena vs Natsu. Current DF Natsu, who still hasn't been showed, was allowed; so I'm going by that same token.

 

[kkck]

It's worth mentioning we are giving Glidartz the benefit of the doubt and in this thread, most likely all of those who vote for Glidartz, me included, are taking into account that he's undergone the same progression as the other powerhouses. So mostly I'm putting Glidartz at the same level or slgihtly above Laxus'. So we're powerscaling.

That also happened in the God Serena vs Natsu. Current DF Natsu, who still hasn't been showed, was allowed; so I'm going by that same token.

Well, it is possible that gildarts has grown stronger but... It's not a fact. It makes sense to consider gildarts as we last saw him for the most part. Any pretense that gildarts can even match a springan implies specifically a completely imaginary gildarts. Gildart is over 40 years old, we also have to consider the possibility that he already peaked. The level gildarts has shown so far is already outclassed or matched even by multiple guys in the main gang. Natsu, grey and erza at least easily have him beat and it is entirely possible even lucy has a decent change. Gildart as we last saw him is simply worthless. The only version of gildarts that beats a springan as of now is completely imaginary.

 

[DAIMorrigan]

Tbh this tournament was basically made so that Natsu can win. DF Natsu practically unbeatable. Maybe Fairy Law can take him but even that is arguable.

I'm still for Wahl. Gildarts is overhyped.

 

[Stormsfury]

Tbh this tournament was basically made so that Natsu can win. DF Natsu practically unbeatable. Maybe Fairy Law can take him but even that is arguable.

I'm still for Wahl. Gildarts is overhyped.

If God Serena, the guy who should basically be immune to his fire can't win dispite all the advantages then of course Natsu's going to win

Wahl will take this imo.

 

[Kacchan]

How can you be so sure? We didn't see the effect of that etherion.



It's worth mentioning we are giving Glidartz the benefit of the doubt and in this thread, most likely all of those who vote for Glidartz, me included, are taking into account that he's undergone the same progression as the other powerhouses. So mostly I'm putting Glidartz at the same level or slgihtly above Laxus'. So we're powerscaling.

That also happened in the God Serena vs Natsu. Current DF Natsu, who still hasn't been showed, was allowed; so I'm going by that same token.

How can you be so sure when you're also assuming? So, your point is? You can assume but we can't? The name Etherion stands for itself.

 

[kkck]

It is not outright impossible for gildarts to have had a similar progression to the rest of the characters however I do think that logically it should at best be extremely unlikely. Gildarts is a middle aged man whereas the gang are a bunch of teenagers or young adults at large not even at their physical prime. As in, the main cast has already either surpassed or matched gildarts as we last saw him and are still not in their physical prime. Every member of the main cast grew more during the last time skip than they did over the entire of past manga events. Gildarts having the potential to have such a power boost in of having been at the whole magic thing literally decades more than the rest of the cast is sort of a weird development. And its not like it is a small or otherwise normal boost, the springan have shown to be well stronger than him as we last saw him. Frankly, I don't think gildarts as we last saw him is stronger than makarov and we know makarov for the most part falls short of springan. Gildarts is a character who should be more or less at his prime, unless the manga completely ignores aging.

 

[Mirage]

Gildarts.

Scaling should put him above the likes of Jellal who is portrayed to be > Laxus.

Gil wins.

 

[kira]

seeing as how august is such a beast even at his age, I don't believe gildarts won't progress that much. Do you guys really believe that gildarts would just go around without focusing on getting stronger after he saw the threat that acnologia possess? he would have trained really really hard to help as much as possible against acnologia. He might even have searched for Dragon lacrimas in order to help fight against acnologia or acquired new magic like eileen that surprised even acno.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Gildarts.

Scaling should put him above the likes of Jellal who is portrayed to be > Laxus.

Gil wins.

Jellal isn't above Laxus nor is Gildarts portrayed to be above Jellal, this isn't Tenrou anymore.

 

[Char]

How can you be so sure when you're also assuming? So, your point is? You can assume but we can't? The name Etherion stands for itself.

Of course you can, no-one is impeding you. There'll be those who think something and those who think the opposite. That's what assuming is about.

It is not outright impossible for gildarts to have had a similar progression to the rest of the characters however I do think that logically it should at best be extremely unlikely.

Logic proves your point, but FT logic works the other way round. I bet you'll all be surprised when Glidartz comes back. Or not, we're just assuming.

seeing as how august is such a beast even at his age, I don't believe gildarts won't progress that much. Do you guys really believe that gildarts would just go around without focusing on getting stronger after he saw the threat that acnologia possess? he would have trained really really hard to help as much as possible against acnologia. He might even have searched for Dragon lacrimas in order to help fight against acnologia or acquired new magic like eileen that surprised even acno.

That's more like FT logic, thanks!