Or do you believe Natsu in his Base state casually melted a city sized stadium,can't destroy a buliding size Guildhall with a strong attack with all M.P. concentrated in his strongest form?
Well that's because he doesn't need to use a large AOE attack against a single person.
Oh... Natsu's flame aura wipes water and rocks. In guild he doesn't need to destroy everything with his final strike, everything must blow eventually by his flame aura and punch wave.
I didn't say he used aoe against them, he melted stadium by flame aura, I said he used aoe in 1x1 fight. Don't you think so? His roar against Bluenote? Was it small or something?
Fire is not damaging magic, mage can't hit someone with megapower strike with fire, but can make mega blow or aura. Natsu still strong without fire, but his attack must be huge bs with his clear hands he can't do much damage. Natsu is not Jellal or Makarov type wizard, he can't compress his magic into small sphere or strike to do directed damage.
Oh... Natsu's flame aura wipes water and rocks. In guild he doesn't need to destroy everything with his final strike, everything must blow eventually by his flame aura and punch wave.
I didn't say he used aoe against them, he melted stadium by flame aura, I said he used aoe in 1x1 fight. Don't you think so? His roar against Bluenote? Was it small or something?
Fire is not damaging magic, mage can't hit someone with megapower strike with fire, but can make mega blow or aura. Natsu still strong without fire, but his attack must be huge bs with his clear hands he can't do much damage. Natsu is not Jellal or Makarov type wizard, he can't compress his magic into small sphere or strike to do directed damage.
He used Demolition Fist against Jacob(in FDKM state) and against Ikusa-Tsunagi in Base which by attack itself is not large AOE compared to Dragon's roar.
And 7 DS in GMG were exhausted and weak that time.Still their performance was better than non DS Mages.Like Sting and Rogue performed better than Jura in GMG against Dragons.
But compare here,END is not as strong as GMG Dragons like Motherglare or Atlas Flame and Gray is much stronger than GMG Sting and Rogue.
Actually, I don't think Gildarts used crash against August. He probably used disassembly, which was the same spell he used against Natsu during Tenrou. That spell wasn't really lethal. It just divide the target up into smaller chunks. In any case, I doubt Gildarts would have been able to kill August because when he landed his true heaven attack August simply tanked it. August wouldn't have had any defense from this attack because it was technically holder magic. In terms of attack power, this attack was definitely weaker than DF Demolition Fist. Even if Zeref didn't think he needed to guard against DF Natsu's demolition fist, he didn't guard against IgNatsu's punch either.
It does look similar, but i doubt it was the same spell. We could literally see August's body begin to fall apart, while Natsu on the other hand just split into a bunch of mini Natsu's. August recognized True Heaven as a threat, like Kana's cards.
Im 90% sure August let himself be cubed
IgNatsu according to Zeref was actually capable of killing him, DF Natsu on the other hand was recognized as not good enough to do the job. The feats are against me, but from Zeref's statements/hype, portrayal and plain logic there should be no way for DF Natsu to be superior to IgNatsu. Maybe Zeref was just showing off his new powers? Im grasping at straws here i know, but there is no way DF Natsu couldve actually killed Zeref, FH or no, he wouldve survived.
It does look similar, but i doubt it was the same spell. We could literally see August's body begin to fall apart, while Natsu on the other hand just split into a bunch of mini Natsu's. August recognized True Heaven as a threat, like Kana's cards.
But im 90% sure August let himself be cubed
IgNatsu according to Zeref was actually capable of killing him, DF Natsu on the other hand was recognized as not good enough to do the job. The feats are against me, but from Zeref's statements/hype, portrayal and plain logic there should be no way for DF Natsu to be superior to IgNatsu. Maybe Zeref was just showing off his new powers? Im grasping at straws here i know, but there is no way DF Natsu couldve actually killed Zeref, FH or no.
DF Natsu used all his M.P. in a single attack.But IgNatsu on the other hand even after such a large scale attack,had another attack left and had fought Zeref in Base state before also.
It does look similar, but i doubt it was the same spell. We could literally see August's body begin to fall apart, while Natsu on the other hand just split into a bunch of mini Natsu's. August recognized True Heaven as a threat, like Kana's cards.
But im 90% sure August let himself be cubed
IgNatsu according to Zeref was actually capable of killing him, DF Natsu on the other hand was recognized as not good enough to do the job. The feats are against me, but from Zeref's statements/hype, portrayal and plain logic there should be no way for DF Natsu to be superior to IgNatsu. Maybe Zeref was just showing off his new powers? Im grasping at straws here i know, but there is no way DF Natsu couldve actually killed Zeref, FH or no.
The reason August was cut up into chunks is the reason why I think is disassembly. If it were crash and August's body was really harmed then I would have expected there to be blood, or like August's organs. The way I interpreted the situation was that August got caught off guard, and Gildarts managed to disassemble August. August wasn't killed so, he had time to copy Gildart's magic. Then he manipulated himself to attack Gildarts as chunks, and then dispelled disassembly. I don't think simply copying crash would grant you the ability to manipulate the chunks of your body, and I don't think dispelling it would heal it back up after it was already shattered. Like if Natsu burned some August's skin by catching him off guard, I don't think being able to negate Natsu's attacks would be able heal the burn if it already happened.
I can accept it if you're skeptical that DF Natsu wouldn't be able to kill Zeref. Maybe DF Natsu wouldn't have been able to kill Zeref, but he probably could have scattered his body. Maybe Zeref would be able to heal back up from that, but having Fairy Heart probably speeds up the process considerably. I would say that if Zeref took DF Natsu's punch, he would be rendered unconscious. His immortality might kick in and heal him back up, but he would be effectively "knocked out". DF Natsu should do considerable damage to anyone who isn't immortal.
Sorry, but that's bullshit. Zeref just split up into particle and gathered himself. It is like Brad or KiSu, something like Zeref's body is not piece of meat but mass of magic.
And 7 DS in GMG were exhausted and weak that time.Still their performance was better than non DS Mages.Like Sting and Rogue performed better than Jura in GMG against Dragons
But none other wizards besides Makarov were fighting with dragons. Yeah, they did several punches and DS were better, but DS were still nothing for dragons.
Sorry, but that's bullshit. Zeref just split up into particle and gathered himself. It is like Brad or KiSu, something like Zeref's body is not piece of meat but mass of magic.
Oneshots two spriggan like nothing.
Erase two prehigh spriggan.
In what state she was after direct hit into heart?
Wall is not weak to lightning, lightning do nothing to him, how you read it??
No, he didn't. Randy's magic did work on Natsu and didn't work on Neinheart. When Natsu beat him he start geting End power. Now he has not it.
Like many people said before - if he can, he should do that.
Yes, and else she destroy meteor and dragon. That's MS can easily block Zeref's attack's or Acno's roar. Just serious.
1) Since when was it confirmed that Zeref's body was simply a mass of magic? He didn't say that at all. In fact, it was implied that Zeref simply reversed time with the way he also restored the wall. He even says that time and space are things that he controls now, and that this was the power of Fairy Heart. In fact, Zeref is nothing like Bloodman or Keith. He's not a demon, nor made out of demon particles. 2) When has Laxus oneshot 2 Spriggans? He beat Wall after a fight, and Ajeel was never technically oneshotted. Even if I grant you the fact that Laxus would oneshot Spriggans, really so would Natsu. Both Jacob and Neinhart were defeated without much effort at all. 3) Are you saying Irene's sword enchantments are Spriggans? They're not comparable to a historia of a Spriggan, if I'm being honest. They had the powers of rope and glue. Mirajane's injury was healed by Brandish, and she's had a night to rest. Natsu went through his heart stopping due to the demon seed, and still managed to oneshot Jacob. 4) Machias are naturally weak to lightning. Wall modified himself to be able to absorb it for power. Wall wasn't able to find a way to absorb red lightning, so he should be as vulnerable to red lightning as a regular machias is to lightning. Red lightning is still lightning, and so Wall should be weak to it. 5) Brandish didn't enlarge Natsu's tumour until after he fought and beat Neinhart. There was absolutely no indication that it was END's power. If Natsu was using END's power, Hiro would have made it obvious by making the flames black. 6) God Serena's attacks were doing like no real damage to Natsu. Even if he just stood there and took God Serena's attacks, God Serena wouldn't have been able to damage him more than Zeref did. If Natsu can enter DF when he's trapped by Zeref's black magic, then he can definitely have entered DF when Serena was attack him. 7) Erza didn't destroy the meteor with her bare hands, now did she? She also had a slayer advantage against Irene. This isn't even remotely close to being able to stop an attack with her bare hands. If you think Erza could block Acnologia's roar or Zeref's attack barehanded, that says a lot about your power-ranking.
DF Natsu used all his M.P. in a single attack.But IgNatsu on the other hand even after such a large scale attack,had another attack left and had fought Zeref in Base state before also.
The reason August was cut up into chunks is the reason why I think is disassembly. If it were crash and August's body was really harmed then I would have expected there to be blood, or like August's organs. The way I interpreted the situation was that August got caught off guard, and Gildarts managed to disassemble August. August wasn't killed so, he had time to copy Gildart's magic. Then he manipulated himself to attack Gildarts as chunks, and then dispelled disassembly. I don't think simply copying crash would grant you the ability to manipulate the chunks of your body, and I don't think dispelling it would heal it back up after it was already shattered. Like if Natsu burned some August's skin by catching him off guard, I don't think being able to negate Natsu's attacks would be able heal the burn if it already happened.
I can accept it if you're skeptical that DF Natsu wouldn't be able to kill Zeref. Maybe DF Natsu wouldn't have been able to kill Zeref, but he probably could have scattered his body. Maybe Zeref would be able to heal back up from that, but having Fairy Heart probably speeds up the process considerably. I would say that if Zeref took DF Natsu's punch, he would be rendered unconscious. His immortality might kick in and heal him back up, but he would be effectively "knocked out". DF Natsu should do considerable damage to anyone who isn't immortal though.
You make a good point here, however it doesnt explain why instead of being scattered into miniature versions of himself, August was instead sliced into chunks of meat. Natsu was never sliced up like that, he just disappeared into a bunch of mini Natsu's.
But you see in August's case, especially in the bottom left panel, he literally starts falling to pieces.
Logically August shouldnt be able to move the chunks anyway since Crash doesnt allow Gildarts to control what he disassembles beyond repairing them.
The lack of blood i attribute to FT being a relatively child friendly manga, i mean blood splatter from a sword wound is one thing, but being diced up like a chunk of beef? This aint Mortal Kombat.
I can believe Zeref's body wouldve been blasted apart, however im not of the opinion that it would have led to Zeref's defeat.
Zeref was too confident in Dragon Force's inability to beat him, and while Zeref isnt all knowing, he can usually tell when things get dangerous. Can something Zeref doesnt even acknowledge as a threat, really beat him?
I agree with everything here. Dont think Zeref wouldve died though.
You make a good point here, however it doesnt explain why instead of being scattered into miniature versions of himself, August was instead sliced into chunks of meat. Natsu was never sliced up like that, he was just burst into a bunch of mini Natsu's.
But you see in August's case, especially in the bottom left panel, he literally starts falling to pieces.
Logically August shouldnt be able to move the chunks anyway since Crash doesnt allow Gildarts to control what he disassembles beyond repairing them.
The lack of blood i attribute to FT being a relatively child friendly manga, i mean blood splatter from a sword wound is one thing, but being diced up like a chunk of beef? This aint Mortal Kombat. Logically August should never have been cubed in the first place since he's immune to magic, but whatever.
I can believe Zeref's body wouldve been blasted apart, however im not of the opinion that it would have led to Zeref's defeat.
Zeref was too confident in Dragon Force's inability to beat him, and while Zeref isnt all knowing, he can usually tell when things get dangerous. Can something Zeref doesnt even acknowledge as a threat, really beat him?
I boil that down to August having control over disassembly magic. Natsu was sliced up, but those pieces all turned into a bunch of mini-Natsu's. As for why August was able to resists that, it's because by then August was able to negate Gildart's magic from working. Again if August was really cut apart in pieces by crash, then even being able to negate magic shouldn't be able to reverse the damage. I don't think the kid-friendly argument really works, because Hiro can get pretty gory with some of his wounds. Maybe not to the extent that gore can be seen from inside August's body, but I would expect to see the parts of August's "insides" to be inked to imply blood in instead of just pure white. You know, something to indicate that it's his flesh.
Zeref wants Natsu to kill him though. He's immortal, so he knows that given enough time he will always come out on top. I think that blasting Zeref's body apart, would at least render him unconscious for a few hours. He may have eventually recovered, but it wouldn't have been nearly as fast as with Fairy Heart. Think of the time Zeref was knocked out by Ultear on Tenrou Island. I think DF Natsu would do something like that.
When has Laxus oneshot 2 Spriggans? He beat Wall after a fight, and Ajeel was never technically oneshotted. Even if I grant you the fact that Laxus would oneshot Spriggans, really so would Natsu. Both Jacob and Neinhart were defeated without much effort at all.
Yes, Natsu can. But not like Laxus. Laxus did it like nothing (and with Wall too, I don't see it like not oneshot, not one Laxus' attack damaged Wall, he has absolute immune to lightning while Laxus got his red spark). If Laxus didn't oneshot Azir, so Natsu didn't wipe Zeref.
Yes, I saying exactly it. You don't think so? Your right.
Irene's berserker soldier was equal to Erza who is low-spriggan lvl. You still think Irene's strongest duo weaker than soldiers?
It was joking. I don't get this Erza's bullshit seriously. She never be able to pick a fight with someone Irene's lvl. We can cut these chapters and burn it in pentagram
If Natsu realy destroyed him so how he can reverse himself??
Yes, Natsu can. But not like Laxus. Laxus did it like nothing (and with Wall too, I don't see it like not oneshot, not one Laxus' attack damaged Wall, he has absolute immune to lightning while Laxus got his red spark). If Laxus didn't oneshot Azir, so Natsu didn't wipe Zeref.
Yes, I saying exactly it. You don't think so? Your right.
Irene's berserker soldier was equal to Erza who is low-spriggan lvl. You still think Irene's strongest duo weaker than soldiers?
August almost died after sword attack and Brandish healing. The strongest mage.
Fire DS survived flame attack. It's make sense.
In preEND state.
Realy? Machine? Maybe electronic machine? Machine is just heap of metall. Lightning can't do anything to metall that it can do to something other.
It was joking. I don't get this Erza's bullshit seriously. She never be able to pick a fight with someone Irene's lvl. We can cut these chapters and burn it in pentagram
1) Natsu destroyed his body, but he wouldn't have killed Zeref. Zeref won't die even if he's decapitated. It stands to reason that he can stay alive even if he was just in smaller chunks. Having infinite magical power also helps. 2) Laxus' attack never reached Ajeel, even if we speculate that it would have oneshotted Ajeel. Natsu's attack actually scattered Zeref's body. The situations are not comparable. Also, Natsu gave less effort in taking out Jacob and Neinhart than Laxus did in taking out Wall. 3) Irene's army of berserker soldiers were able to temporarily push back Erza. Individually they were weak. Irene's swords are no army, and they never matched a Spriggan either. I don't get your point about August and Brandish. My point was that Mirajane was obviously healed, and Natsu was also dying before fighting Jacob. Then he went on to do a bunch of things before fighting Zeref again. In comparison, Mirajane spent way too long fighting Jacob. 4) Pre-END state? How is that not just Natsu without END powers? 5) Machias (マキアス), as in the name of Wall's species. They are weak to electricity.
1) Natsu destroyed his body, but he wouldn't have killed Zeref. Zeref won't die even if he's decapitated. It stands to reason that he can stay alive even if he was just in smaller chunks. Having infinite magical power also helps. 2) Laxus' attack never reached Ajeel, even if we speculate that it would have oneshotted Ajeel. Natsu's attack actually scattered Zeref's body. The situations are not comparable. Also, Natsu gave less effort in taking out Jacob and Neinhart than Laxus did in taking out Wall. 3) Irene's army of berserker soldiers were able to temporarily push back Erza. Individually they were weak. Irene's swords are no army, and they never matched a Spriggan either. I don't get your point about August and Brandish. My point was that Mirajane was obviously healed, and Natsu was also dying before fighting Jacob. Then he went on to do a bunch of things before fighting Zeref again. In comparison, Mirajane spent way too long fighting Jacob. 4) Pre-END state? How is that not just Natsu without END powers? 5) Machias (マキアス), as in the name of Wall's species. They are weak to electricity.
1) And how Zeref should reverse himself without FH if someone erase him?
2) Natsu technicaly oneshoted Jacob (with Nein it wasn't his power), Laxus also oneshoted Wall when become able to damage him.
3) They are Irene's girls. That's enough for me. Just imagine how much MP Irene enchant into 1 million soldier and what if she enchant it into two girl-sword.
4) he-he. PreEnd is like End but in not full mode (yes, there is no full End, I mean part of power when Natsu start to transform).
5) Where you found that he is weak to electricity? Maybe I missed it
It isn't really an issue of it being taxing, more than it being an actual usage of magic. Enchantments work by affixing magic onto an object/person. This is going by Acnologia's explanation, who is someone that's lived for more than 400 years and seen several magic come and go, Lost Magic included:
Zeref himself also noted that the quality of magic inside the earth had changed, and this was right after Irene began her preparations to encounter Acnologia. Meaning Irene had already affixed her magic in the earth itself:
Plus look what happened after Irene died:
"The effects of Universe One are being reversed."
Translation-The effects of Irene's magic are being reversed.
Why wasn't it reversed before? Because she's actively using her magic to keep the spell in check. Think of it like Ur's Iced Shell on Deliora, Ajeel's Sand World or Mavis's Fairy Sphere on Tenrou Island. Magic is used to keep the spell active until it runs out, or the wizard dies/gets knocked out. In Irene's case, it's the second.
Invel's blizzard was a direct result of his magic.A loose comparison of this is like how when Silver met Natsu in Tartaros, Natsu said that the temperature of the room became colder all of a sudden. Yet Silver wasn't using any spells then. But in Invel's case, it's a little different since he was engaged in battle with Gray. Which would mean that he's releasing magic power in the fight, displayed by a blizzard.
Well, I don't see how the panels really explain anything.
Acnologia said Irene affixed her magic onto the continent, which is true, but it was never said that the enchantment taxes her power.
Like I said, almost every wizard changes the environment like Irene, so they are practically "affixing" their magic power on the environment. They're just not enchanting anything.
But the manga never said that enchanting continually decreases a wizard's magic power.
All the panels you provided just explained that Irene used her magic on the continent. Nothing says that she loses power afterwards.
Those same fodders proceeded to overpower the likes of Erza after being enchanted. It's an impressive feat in hindsight. Plus they would have gone on to slaughter everyone else if Makarov hadn't used Fairy Law.
Neinhart was overpowering an entire harbor by himself before. He isn't fodder if we go by feats. And in his enchanted form, he proceeded to overpower Brandish, a natural hax user, by the virtue of his magic being more than hers. That is Irene's magic at work there.
Her magic is enchantments. It's like saying Lucy isn't allowed to summon Spirits because they tax her MP The very essence of her magic relies on summoning Spirits, same as Irene with her enchantments.
That doesn't mean it costs a lot of magic to enhance those fodders. Nor does it mean that Irene will continue to lose MP after enchanting them. Once she is finished enchanting objects, then the objects run off of their own MP.
Her MP has nothing to do with the fodders/objects' MP afterwards. She is simply multiplying their magic power (Like Ultear's Second/Third Origin)... not giving them her own magic power.
I'm pretty sure we both agree that Natsu and Gray's second origin is not running off of Ultear's MP.
That'd be absurd. And the situation is pretty much identical to Irene's enchantments. Ultear and Irene are basically just opening up another vessel of magic power, not transferring it.
Erza fought a total of 3 Spriggans in the war, Ajeel, Neinhart, and Irene, in that order. She fought Neinhart in 482, and the Irene fight didn't start till Chapter 513. Meanwhile Irene fought Sabertooth and Blue Pegasus in the North, proceeded to fight Acnologia, cast Universe One, terrorize the king and his daughter, overpower Mira, and even when in the Guild Hall, she was taxed with extracting Fairy Heart. While Erza was actually sleeping and resting between chapters and fights. She obviously has more chances to make a full recovery than Irene.
She fought Historia Ezel after Dimaria actually.
Then her other fight was with Irene, like Erza, in 513. 30 chapters in between
I'm not saying that she was magic deficient, I'm simply saying she wasn't at 100% MP in the fight. Proven by all her actions between the start of the war and her final stand. So now imagine her using her strongest move (Deus Sema) , and then being attacked by her natural kryptonite in that state. She'll obviously go back to normal.
Now imagine a 100% Irene going against any of the contestants here? She easily manhandles any of them.
My mistake, I messed up the chronological order of events. I was wrong on that. But that wasn't my point to begin with. What I was trying to say was that Wendy fought a strong Spriggan like Dimaria and had to fight Historia Ezel while exhausted.
And actually, no, Wendy did not get 30 chapters of rest in between.
Now that... costs a lot of magical power. Each line is like a single human being. And this is not even it.
Guess who she had to revive? None other than Juvia, who was on the edge of death.
That's a lot of healing and fighting for a girl like Wendy.
She was already exhausted from 2 battles. Fighting an army and healing Juvia back from the Doors of Death must've been more taxing on her MP than most people on the entire battlefield.
I said if. Purely speculation. Considering she sustained Universe One, combated Zeref's enchantment, sustained other enchantments like those two little girls and Neinhart, and still had immeasurable amounts of magical power, I highly doubt she was exhausted.
What does Wendy's magic have to do with anything? The only reason she possessed Wendy's body was to restore her own humanity.
Irene is a much more experienced dragon slayer than Wendy, but Wendy has a smaller magical reserve which is why Wendy in Irene's body is so powerful.
We're talking about Acnologia because he's our only other frame of reference of 400+ year old dragon slayers that lost their humanity.
They're the closest to one another than anyone else in the series.
You actually do need to show me Irene's low pain tolerance. Since you made the claim, the burden of proof lies on you.
DS magic being fused with the blade allowed it to penetrate Irene's scales. It has nothing to do with Erza. Romeo could have been swinging that sword for all it matters.
It's not meaningless. Her dragon form is her base form. It's not some kind of power. She fights Zeref's enchantment that made her appear human so that she can retain that form.
Her human form, whose magical power was enough to manipulate the entire country, is weak? She was capable of dominating Wendy and Erza while just toying with them.
How can it be cancelled by five dragon slayers? That's never stated in the series.
That's why we should use feats. And according to the manga, Irene was reverted by Wendy's dragon slaying magic. Erza was crippled and couldn't move. So in this battle, Irene's dragon form would also be reverted by Wendy and all the other dragon slayers in the match.
Wendy Belserion >> Irene Marvell. That's my point.
I'm not saying Irene is a less experienced dragon slayer (although it could be possible).
I'm saying that Wendy's dragon slaying magic can revert Irene's dragon form. That you can't deny because it's already been proven canonically.
This pretty much goes for all the other dragon slayers in this match.
What do you mean that Irene cannot be reverted by dragon slayers? This was proven when Irene lost her dragon form after Wendy's dragon slaying magic connected with her dragon body.
I don't see why I need to show you proof that Irene's pain tolerance is low, but here it is:
And yes, Pain Tolerance is directly related to Being Reverted.
That's why Acnologia didn't revert when dragon slayers attacked him, but Irene did.
By ur logic Wendy can damage acno i never said advantage doesn't matters i said it doesn't determine the winner all the time we have seen characters that have advantages lose a fight. And no I disagree using enchantent to enchant the solders and using universe one all drain her MP. Ajeel using sand world drain his mp it doesn't matter if he didn't look exchausted remember sprrigans have a lot of MP anyways I told u Irene can blitz Wendy from the get go but u haven't given a good counter argument of why she can't. Wendy never outclass her just the counter her magic there is a major difference show me panel when Wendy outclassed her with enchantment
1) And how Zeref should reverse himself without FH if someone erase him?
2) Natsu technicaly oneshoted Jacob (with Nein it wasn't his power), Laxus also oneshoted Wall when become able to damage him.
3) They are Irene's girls. That's enough for me. Just imagine how much MP Irene enchant into 1 million soldier and what if she enchant it into two girl-sword.
4) he-he. PreEnd is like End but in not full mode (yes, there is no full End, I mean part of power when Natsu start to transform).
5) Where you found that he is weak to electricity? Maybe I missed it
Zeref wouldn't reverse time. He would just heal. Who says Irene used the same power in enchanting the swords that she did with the 1 million soldiers? And what the is pre-END? Natsu didn't beat Neinhart with END's power. His demon seed was still shrunken at that point. Brandish enlarged his seed after he beat Neinhart. Then he fainted, then END's power awoke when Dimaria attacked Lucy.
But I didn't talk about Natsu vs. Serena, just Natsu vs. the other two. Pretty much established that Serena would beat Natsu. Natsu at best would come in third place in this fight.
Second origin doesn't give them MP, it gives ... origin for MP.
Third origin doesn't give MP, it allows person to grow up instantly and get magic from the future.
Enchanting means take magic and put it into something. Wendy always did this. She takes her magic and put into wizard with some attribute (healing, speed, power), so after that she lost her MP more and more while she will restore it.
Zeref wouldn't reverse time. He would just heal. Who says Irene used the same power in enchanting the swords that she did with the 1 million soldiers? And what the is pre-END? Natsu didn't beat Neinhart with END's power. His demon seed was still shrunken at that point. Brandish enlarged his seed after he beat Neinhart. Then he fainted, then END's power awoke when Dimaria attacked Lucy.
She use only one power - enchantment - put her (or another) magic into object.
Wall said that he can absorb lightning and metall is weak to it. But first, metall is not weak to lightning, not more than something else like meat, ice or tree.
He can absorb it, other can't. But it must still doesn't work on them.
But I didn't talk about Natsu vs. Serena, just Natsu vs. the other two. Pretty much established that Serena would beat Natsu. Natsu at best would come in third place in this fight.
Second origin doesn't give them MP, it gives ... origin for MP.
Third origin doesn't give MP, it allows person to grow up instantly and get magic from the future.
Enchanting means take magic and put it into something. Wendy always did this. She take her magic and put into wizzard with some attribute (healing, speed, power), so after that she lost her MP more and more while she will restore it.
I boil that down to August having control over disassembly magic. Natsu was sliced up, but those pieces all turned into a bunch of mini-Natsu's. As for why August was able to resists that, it's because by then August was able to negate Gildart's magic from working. Again if August was really cut apart in pieces by crash, then even being able to negate magic shouldn't be able to reverse the damage. I don't think the kid-friendly argument really works, because Hiro can get pretty gory with some of his wounds. Maybe not to the extent that gore can be seen from inside August's body, but I would expect to see the parts of August's "insides" to be inked to imply blood in instead of just pure white. You know, something to indicate that it's his flesh.
Zeref wants Natsu to kill him though. He's immortal, so he knows that given enough time he will always come out on top. I think that blasting Zeref's body apart, would at least render him unconscious for a few hours. He may have eventually recovered, but it wouldn't have been nearly as fast as with Fairy Heart. Think of the time Zeref was knocked out by Ultear on Tenrou Island. I think DF Natsu would do something like that.
Able to negate being turned into mini August's but still cubed in the first place? Makes it sound like they're two different spells. Dunno man, seems a bit odd to me. From what i saw August was just cubed and slowly started falling apart, pretty different from what happened to Natsu who just instantly vanished. The only real similarity between the spells was the "square" shape of the blast that was fired at Natsu.
Not like Zeref's reformation had any gore either, half his torso was missing and there wasnt a drop of blood or any inked portions to speak of.
I can see Natsu knocking Zeref out like Ultear did, except in multiple pieces. However only if Zeref sits there and willingly takes it.
Not the same. Enchanting up person's power by caster's power (or by another power) for now. SO doesn't up power. It is just vessel for mp. TO also doesn't, it bring all person's magic from the his future.
My bad for the very late response man. Haven't gotten the chance to get on until now.
Well, I don't see how the panels really explain anything.
Acnologia said Irene affixed her magic onto the continent, which is true, but it was never said that the enchantment taxes her power.
Like I said, almost every wizard changes the environment like Irene, so they are practically "affixing" their magic power on the environment. They're just not enchanting anything.
But the manga never said that enchanting continually decreases a wizard's magic power.
All the panels you provided just explained that Irene used her magic on the continent. Nothing says that she loses power afterwards.
The fodders overpowered Erza because of fatigue.
That doesn't mean it costs a lot of magic to enhance those fodders. Nor does it mean that Irene will continue to lose MP after enchanting them. Once she is finished enchanting objects, then the objects run off of their own MP.
Her MP has nothing to do with the fodders/objects' MP afterwards. She is simply multiplying their magic power (Like Ultear's Second/Third Origin)... not giving them her own magic power.
I'm pretty sure we both agree that Natsu and Gray's second origin is not running off of Ultear's MP.
That'd be absurd. And the situation is pretty much identical to Irene's enchantments. Ultear and Irene are basically just opening up another vessel of magic power, not transferring it.
My mistake, I messed up the chronological order of events. I was wrong on that. But that wasn't my point to begin with. What I was trying to say was that Wendy fought a strong Spriggan like Dimaria and had to fight Historia Ezel while exhausted.
And actually, no, Wendy did not get 30 chapters of rest in between.
Now that... costs a lot of magical power. Each line is like a single human being. And this is not even it.
Guess who she had to revive? None other than Juvia, who was on the edge of death.
That's a lot of healing and fighting for a girl like Wendy.
She was already exhausted from 2 battles. Fighting an army and healing Juvia back from the Doors of Death must've been more taxing on her MP than most people on the entire battlefield.
We only stare at Erza's butt because Mashima forces us to.
Leave it to me, and I'd be staring at Mira's butt 24/7.
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Well, I can speculate the same as you.
That's why we should use feats. And according to the manga, Irene was reverted by Wendy's dragon slaying magic. Erza was crippled and couldn't move. So in this battle, Irene's dragon form would also be reverted by Wendy and all the other dragon slayers in the match.
Wendy Belserion >> Irene Marvell. That's my point.
I'm not saying Irene is a less experienced dragon slayer (although it could be possible).
I'm saying that Wendy's dragon slaying magic can revert Irene's dragon form. That you can't deny because it's already been proven canonically.
This pretty much goes for all the other dragon slayers in this match.
What do you mean that Irene cannot be reverted by dragon slayers? This was proven when Irene lost her dragon form after Wendy's dragon slaying magic connected with her dragon body.
I don't see why I need to show you proof that Irene's pain tolerance is low, but here it is:
And yes, Pain Tolerance is directly related to Being Reverted.
That's why Acnologia didn't revert when dragon slayers attacked him, but Irene did.
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No, she can't damage Acnologia because Acnologia's pain tolerance in dragon form is extremely high.
Wendy has not reached that point yet.
Irene was shown to have low enough pain tolerance that she was reverted.
And that's my point, Irene is not the same as Acnologia.
They are two completely different wizard, with dragon forms on different tiers.
Same logic apply with Wendy that's like saying if Romeo had devil slaying magic he would no diff base mard geer because gray did the samething. No it doesn't work that Way Wendy enchant erza sword to able to damage Irene doesn't mean Wendy can do the same. Well I could argue that since anco hasn't fought a ds slayer yet this arc then it's possible that He can get damage by a ds slayer like Irene.u have no evdence that acno doesn't have the same lower pain tolerance than Irene. but I know what ur gonna say "tenrou ds couldn't hurt anco so his durability is better" remember that that was the only time the ds faced anco and also after that GMG the DS till couldnt hurt a dragon but since this Alaverz Wendy it's mean she can put damage on Irene??? "well he blitzed god Serena" well Irene can do the same to Wendy (which I'm trying to say to u all this time) advantage or not she gets blitzs. And if Wendy was that powerful to fight Irene she would have told erza that she can handle Irene herself but nope she needed her help she would easily get no diff(Low diff at best that me being nice). And no Irene Marvell>Wendy balserion. Wendy clearly said it and was able to get her body back
It's funny how when Wendy was able to counter Irene enchant she wasn't struggling but when Wendy was in Irene body she easily able to get her body back. PIS/hiro PL BS
1) Since when was it confirmed that Zeref's body was simply a mass of magic? He didn't say that at all. In fact, it was implied that Zeref simply reversed time with the way he also restored the wall. He even says that time and space are things that he controls now, and that this was the power of Fairy Heart. In fact, Zeref is nothing like Bloodman or Keith. He's not a demon, nor made out of demon particles. 2) When has Laxus oneshot 2 Spriggans? He beat Wall after a fight, and Ajeel was never technically oneshotted. Even if I grant you the fact that Laxus would oneshot Spriggans, really so would Natsu. Both Jacob and Neinhart were defeated without much effort at all. 3) Are you saying Irene's sword enchantments are Spriggans? They're not comparable to a historia of a Spriggan, if I'm being honest. They had the powers of rope and glue. Mirajane's injury was healed by Brandish, and she's had a night to rest. Natsu went through his heart stopping due to the demon seed, and still managed to oneshot Jacob. 4) Machias are naturally weak to lightning. Wall modified himself to be able to absorb it for power. Wall wasn't able to find a way to absorb red lightning, so he should be as vulnerable to red lightning as a regular machias is to lightning. Red lightning is still lightning, and so Wall should be weak to it. 5) Brandish didn't enlarge Natsu's tumour until after he fought and beat Neinhart. There was absolutely no indication that it was END's power. If Natsu was using END's power, Hiro would have made it obvious by making the flames black. 6) God Serena's attacks were doing like no real damage to Natsu. Even if he just stood there and took God Serena's attacks, God Serena wouldn't have been able to damage him more than Zeref did. If Natsu can enter DF when he's trapped by Zeref's black magic, then he can definitely have entered DF when Serena was attack him. 7) Erza didn't destroy the meteor with her bare hands, now did she? She also had a slayer advantage against Irene. This isn't even remotely close to being able to stop an attack with her bare hands. If you think Erza could block Acnologia's roar or Zeref's attack barehanded, that says a lot about your power-ranking.
True, CSK has only proven himself agains base Mard, but similarly Mard has only proven that he can dodge CSK long enough for Tartaros Lucy to run out of MP(after oneshotting Jackal with the power he gave her)
But dodging his attacks is his way of fighting that shouldn't discredit him. It's not like he is dodging to run away he was attacking back. I mean he did tank a tartrous DF natsu
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The very essence of her magic relies on summoning Spirits, same as Irene with her enchantments.
