Group Group A

[Nemispelled]

We don't actually know the effectiveness of the enchantment, just like we don't know the effectiveness of artificial dragon slaying magic. It's a hot topic of debate, but we saw Laxus' and Erik's magic was just as effective against the dragons, even if they were poorly paired (Cobra's not having a nose but still getting knocked to the ground, and Laxus' having no correlation to lightning but still getting sent flying). Wendy's enchantment seems a more natural source than DS lacrimas unless the lacrimas come from dragons themselves. But Wendy enchanting the blade with DS magic rendered Irenes scales asunder, which is how Erza was able to cut through.

Even Acnologia was afflicted by DS magic on Tenrou, but it was the combined force of three dragon slayers just to knock him back. While Irene isn't as powerful as Acnologia, Wendy isn't as powerful as Wendy, Natsu, and Gajeel put together. In Irene's human form, their magic is just as effective on her as normal fire, wind, metal, etc. and base Irene hilariously outclasses Wendy, no matter if she's DF or not.

Erza's right side got shattered when she got non-commitally bitch-slapped. Now imagine Irene trying to kill Erza and Wendy. They're field mice trying to beat an eagle.

But there is a large difference between Acnologia and Irene.

Acnologia has shown to maintain his dragon form with severe injuries.

Irene has shown to be reverted by a 95% broken boned Erza with a simple DS-enchanted sword.

Even though everybody likes to speculate about DS magic, I find there is a pretty obvious difference between the two situations.

Back on Tenrou and GMG, the dragon slayers were all very weak. Since Alvarez, most of them have mastered their magic.


If we go by actual feats, then Irene's dragon form will be knocked out here. It was actually shown in the manga, that isn't speculation.

Different dragons have different thresholds for pain tolerance.

Canonically, Irene has low pain tolerance in her dragon form, which will result in her body reverting back to a human.

 

[Brandish μ]

Well, that ultimately depends on whether this is a fight to the death or not. If it is then there is no reason for at least lucy's spirits bitch slapping sense into her. A sad lucy is preferable to a dead one after all. Which is not to say her sadness isn't a tragedy but still.

That's a fair point, though I'd say even in the face of death sacrificing a key is still a tough decision for her. In a battle royale she may not have the luxury of time. She also has Horologium to save her from death, I guess.

 

[kkck]

That's a fair point, though I'd say even in the face of death sacrificing a key is still a tough decision for her. In a battle royale she may not have the luxury of time. She also has Horologium to save her from death, I guess.

Well, it is the exact same scenario as in the manga. Lucy didn't want to, virgo bitch slap sense into her, stellar spirit king gets summoned, shit gets wrecked. Heck, a battle royale is a better scenario than she had when she first summoned the spirit king. She wasn't in a battle royale, she was fighting multiple tartarus demons at the same time.

 

[Seven777]

This is how I see things:
CSK's overall power = Lucy's magic power + CSK's own magic power - power necessary to maintain the gate
Meteor Blade's damage = How much power the Spirit King can convert into strength or magical damage.
DF Natsu's power = Natsu's magical power
DF Demolition Fist's damage = How much magic power Natsu can convert to flames and dragonize
This is what I think you're saying:
Lucy's power = CSK's power
10x Lucy's power = 10x CSK's power
Galaxia Blade = Directly drains Lucy's power

I don't think I'm misunderstanding your point, I just don't agree with it. To me, the first interpretation just makes more sense because all the magic power is accounted for. Most summons are only worth it if the magic power the spirit brings to the table outweighs the MP lost in summoning him. The stronger the mage gets, the more power she can add to the spirit gradually making it stronger. I don't think Lucy ends up giving a large majority of her power to her spirits. With Celestial Spirit Magic, the emphasis has always been on the opening and closing of gates. I don't think higher magical power and more effective MP-to-strength is mutually exclusive. The CSK can have higher magical power than Lucy and use a stronger type of magic than the rest of her spirits. I don't believe you can simply multiply Lucy's power level and expect to see the same ratio of improvement with all spirits. Aquarius' star dress provided Lucy with Aquarius' magical power, not the CSK's. CSK should have gotten a power-up if his power was directly proportional to Lucy's as a percentage. He didn't though.

Close, but not quite. For me its:
Lucy level=CSK's level, like in a game.
Level 30 Lucy summons a level 30 CSK, level 99 Lucy summons a level 99 CSK. They dont necessarily have the same amount of MP. So Lucy would start with 200 in Tartaros, CSK would start with 2000. Lucy boosts her strength in Alvarez to 300, so CSK scales to 3000.
Also for me Galaxia Blade doesnt drain Lucy's MP, it drains the CSK's. What is draining Lucy's power is keeping the CSK's Gate open, the difficulty of which is decided by CSK's overall combat output and efficiency. So the cost of CSK=3 spirit as a whole, whether he used Meteor Blade or nothing.

But their is MP missing in your interpretation too. If its as you say "Spirit Power=Spirit's MP+Lucy's MP" and the reason for a spirit growing stronger is Lucy adding more of her MP to them as she improves, that would mean that the amount of MP Lucy is spending on a spirit actually increases as Lucy grows. If thats the case, then how is it that she eventually reaches a level that can summon 2 at once? If the MP cost of a spirit increases as Lucy gets stronger, she should never reach a level that can summon more than one.
As far as i've seen in this manga, the cost to maintain a spirit has always remained the same, thats why despite her spirits getting stronger, Lucy eventually reaches a level that is capable of summoning 3 spirits at a time.
Was still the CSK giving it to her though, its his spell, bringing forth Aquarius' magic at a level above when she was summoned by Lucy. There's a reason why Lucy couldnt do it herself without a year of training. At best the extra MP she gained wouldve let him stay longer had she not used it up on Jackal.

 

[Axiomus]

Close, but not quite. For me its:
Lucy level=CSK's level, like in a game.
Level 30 Lucy summons a level 30 CSK, level 99 Lucy summons a level 99 CSK. They dont necessarily have the same amount of MP. So Lucy would start with 200 in Tartaros, CSK would start with 2000. Lucy boosts her strength in Alvarez to 300, so CSK scales to 3000.
Also for me Galaxia Blade doesnt drain Lucy's MP, it drains the CSK's. What is draining Lucy's power is keeping the CSK's Gate open, the difficulty of which is decided by CSK's overall combat output and efficiency. So the cost of CSK=3 spirit as a whole, whether he used Meteor Blade or nothing.

But their is MP missing in your interpretation too. If its as you say "Spirit Power=Spirit's MP+Lucy's MP" and the reason for a spirit growing stronger is Lucy adding more of her MP to them as she improves, that would mean that the amount of MP Lucy is spending on a spirit actually increases as Lucy grows. If thats the case, then how is it that she eventually reaches a level that can summon 2 at once? If the MP cost of a spirit increases as Lucy gets stronger, she should never reach a level that can summon more than one.
As far as i've seen in this manga, the cost to maintain a spirit has always remained the same, thats why despite her spirits getting stronger, Lucy eventually reaches a level that is capable of summoning 3 spirits at a time.
Was still the CSK giving it to her though, its his spell, her actual strength hadnt improved, there's a reason why Lucy couldnt do it herself without a year of training. At best the extra MP she gained wouldve let him stay longer had she not used it up on Jackal.

I don't think it works like that. Again,I might believe this if Lucy had to physically create the spirits. That's not what Lucy is doing, she is simply pulling them from one dimension to another. There's no reason that relationship should cause the CSK's power level to change multiplicatively. There's no magical power missing from my interpretation. The MP that Lucy gives the spirit changes with the percentage, but the cost of opening the gate doesn't. I'll give an example, assuming Lucy gives 10% of her power to her spirits (10mp).

Lucy: 100mp
Loke: 300mp
Opening the gate: 50mp
Loke (summon himself): 250
Loke (summoned by Lucy): 310
Lucy (after summoning Loke): 40

Now assume second origin doubles Lucy magical power. Lucy actually has enough for another summon and almost a third one. Let's assume Virgo is like 180, and Aquarius is 350. If we factor in POF that would explain the 3rd summon as well. The amount of power Lucy gives to her spirits remains 10% (20mp)

Lucy: 200mp
Loke: 300mp
Virgo: 180
Aquarius: 350
Opening the gate: 50
Loke (summoned by Lucy): 320
Virgo (summoned by Lucy): 200
Lucy (summoning 2 spirits): 60

You can play around with all these figures, but Lucy summoning 2 spirits should be no problem. It's also worth mentioning, I don't believe the gate only needs to be opened once. Lucy probably has to spend constant effort to keep it opened, totally around 30%-40% of her power for the duration of a fight

 

[Hermit]

But wouldn't that go for Wendy and Erza as well?

Irene only used Universe One, that's not much.

Erza fought Ajeel, nearly died, fought Historias, then blocked END and DeS Gray's punch at the same time.

Wendy fought Historias at Hargeon Port and also fought Dimaria with Chelia. She was also quite exhausted by that time.

If anything, I would bet Irene had a lot more magic power to start out with compared to Erza and Wendy, who each already fought another Spriggan.

Irene used Universe One and enchanted the whole country, mind you that's her affixing her magic onto the country. After her death, the effets of Universe One were undone. That obviously mean that the whole time she was using her magic to keep the spell in check. All that while moving around within the shrunken continent and:
-Transmuting Hisui.
-Enchanting the Berserker army (keep in mind this was an army of 1 million people (?) ) And she affixed her magic onto each and everyone of them.
-Enchanting Neinhart. Mind you this is a whole other Spriggan, someone on the same team as her, and not a foot soldier like Marin.
-Juliet and Hynhe were her own enchantments, meaning they were also running off her MP.
Erza was healed after every fight, meaning she had time to recover her MP. Wendy had a break of nearly 20 chapters between the Historia Ezel fight and the Irene fight. That's more than enough time to make a full recovery.
She had more MP to start than them by virtue of her being a Spriggan, and the top 2, but ultimately, she started out the fight at less than 100%. The only time this arc she was at 100% is the fight with Acnologia, and you saw how well she performed against him there.

 

[Seven777]

I don't think it works like that. Again,I might believe this if Lucy had to physically create the spirits. That's not what Lucy is doing, she is simply pulling them from one dimension to another. There's no reason that relationship should cause the CSK's power level to change multiplicatively. There's no magical power missing from my interpretation. The MP that Lucy gives the spirit, but the cost of opening the gate doesn't. I'll give an example, assuming Lucy gives 10% of her power to Loke.

Lucy: 100mp
Loke: 300mp
Opening the gate: 50mp
Loke (summon himself): 250
Loke (summoned by Lucy): 310
Lucy (after summoning Loke): 40mp

Now assume second origin doubles Lucy magical power. Lucy actually has enough for another summon and almost a third one. If we factor in POF, that would explain the 3rd summon as well.

Lucy: 200mp
Loke: 300mp
Opening the gate: 50mp
Loke (summon himself): 250
Loke (summoned by Lucy): 320
Lucy (after summoning Loke): 130

So after Lucy doubles her own MP, Loke only gets a 3% increase in power? I find that very hard to believe. Loke when first summoned by Lucy was having trouble with Bixlow, and relied pretty heavily on Lucy to win. In Tartaros, Loke did better against Torafuzar than the Thunder Tribe combined did against Tempester. Definitely a lot more than a 3% increase going on, in fact saying that Loke has only doubled his strength since Bixlow is underrating him imo.

As for why their relationship should cause a spirit strength to scale to Lucy's, i have no concrete answer, perhaps something to do with how closely they are connected by both love and magic. But regardless i feel that it is what the manga has shown. Lucy's spirits have always appeared to be at a level of strength proportionate to her own strength, especially now in Alvarez with Loke, Scorpio and Gemini's fairy impressive performance.

 

[Axiomus]

So after Lucy doubles her own MP, Loke only gets a 3% increase in power? I find that very hard to believe. Loke when first summoned by Lucy was having trouble with Bixlow, and relied pretty heavily on Lucy to win. In Tartaros, Loke did better against Torafuzar than the Thunder Tribe combined did against Tempester. Definitely a lot more than a 3% increase going on, in fact saying that Loke has only doubled his strength since Bixlow is underrating him imo.

As for why their relationship should cause a spirit strength to scale to Lucy's, i have no concrete answer, perhaps something to do with how closely they are connected by both love and magic. But regardless i feel that it is what the manga has shown. Lucy's spirits have always appeared to be at a level of strength proportionate to her own strength, especially now in Alvarez with Loke, Scorpio and Gemini's fairy impressive performance.

The numbers can be changed. The higher Lucy is in proportion to her spirits, the greater the increase. If we used your figures Lucy being 100 and Leo being 150, then Leo would increase to 160, and then to 170 with second origin. Loke had trouble against Bixlow because he needed to keep his eyes shut against his doll magic. Bixlow himself wasn't that strong, and got oneshotted by Regulus impact. Torafuzar isn't Tempesta, and wasn't in his etherious form like Tempesta was. Also Loke actually beat Bixlow, he didn't against Torafuzar.
.

 

[Seven777]

The numbers can be changed. The higher Lucy is in proportion to her spirits, the greater the increase. If we used your figures Lucy being 100 and Leo being 150, then Leo would increase to 160, and then to 170 with second origin. Loke had trouble against Bixlow because he needed to keep his eyes shut against his doll magic. Bixlow himself wasn't that strong and got oneshotted by Regulus impact. Torafuzar isn't Tempesta, and wasn't in his etherious form like Tempesta was.

So what? You changed it to 5% increase instead of 3% for Lucy doubling her powers? Does that not seem ridiculously low to you? A 5% increase shouldnt even let Loke tackle Zoldeo/Caprico, but taking on Torafuzar, even for a limited amount of time?
And what about Gemini? Is Marin only 10-20% stronger than OS Lucy?
And Scorpio? Is Brandish only 10-20% stronger than Kain?
Sorry, but to me its seems like Lucy's spirits scale near perfectly to Lucy's own increase in strength, her Tartaros/Alvarez feats line up too well with her second origin/year of training. A 5% increase for her spirits after doubling her own magic power? I just cant see it.
But anyway, we've taken this argument pretty far, and it seems like we have very different opinions, i think at this point it might be time to agree to disagree.

 

[Unnamed Namesake]

But there is a large difference between Acnologia and Irene.

Acnologia has shown to maintain his dragon form with severe injuries.

Irene has shown to be reverted by a 95% broken boned Erza with a simple DS-enchanted sword.

Even though everybody likes to speculate about DS magic, I find there is a pretty obvious difference between the two situations.

Back on Tenrou and GMG, the dragon slayers were all very weak. Since Alvarez, most of them have mastered their magic.


If we go by actual feats, then Irene's dragon form will be knocked out here. It was actually shown in the manga, that isn't speculation.

Different dragons have different thresholds for pain tolerance.

Canonically, Irene has low pain tolerance in her dragon form, which will result in her body reverting back to a human.

Acnologia had his arm ripped off. If Irene was forced back into human form, it could have been because of dragon slaying magic or her magic exhausting.

Erza's physical state has nothing to do with it. Laxus destroyed Ajeel's tidal wave without moving and can throw city-busters by just raising his hand. Mobility doesn't matter. So long as she can move, broken bones don't amount to anything.

Obvious difference by an individual occurrence? So far, this is the only use of DS magic we've seen on a dragon this arc. For all we know, this could be a testament to both Wendy's DS abilities as well as her enchantments.

How were they all very weak? Natsu soloed shadow drive Rogue and white drive Sting while they were both using Dragon Force. Gajeel could most likely have done the same. Even then, the combined force of Natsu, Gajeel, and Wendy would have been more powerful than present day Wendy. Wendy and Natsu (literally happened last chapter) are able to enter Dragon Force at will. Gajeel still can't, and until they're at Acnologia's level they'll never have master DS magic.

Again, we don't know if she was forced out of her form or if she voluntarily left it, since she was disadvantaged against DS magic.

Show me, literally anywhere in the series, where it's stated they have different thresholds.

Again, show me where Irene has low pain tolerance. The dragon form is her natural state, while the human form is an enchantment by Zeref. If anything, she'd have a lower pain tolerance in the unprotected human form.

 

[Axiomus]

So what? You changed it to 5% increase instead of 3% for Lucy doubling her powers? Does that not seem ridiculously low to you? A 5% increase shouldnt even let Loke tackle Zoldeo/Caprico, but taking on Torafuzar, even for a limited amount of time?
And what about Gemini? Is Marin only 10-20% stronger than OS Lucy?
And Scorpio? Is Brandish only 10-20% stronger than Kain?
Sorry, but to me its seems like Lucy's spirits scale near perfectly to Lucy's own increase in strength, her Tartaros/Alvarez feats line up too well with her second origin/year of training. A 5% increase for her spirits after doubling her own magic power? I just cant see it.
But anyway, we've taken this argument pretty far, and it seems like we have very different opinions, i think at this point it might be time to agree to disagree.

I really don't see what was so impressive about Loke's performance against Torafuzar. He blocked a cut for Lucy, and then exchanged a few blows. Then Jackal oneshotted him. I could argue that Jackal was weaker than Tempesta. It wasn't as if Bixlow was particularly strong either. Loke wasn't struggling to tank his attacks or knock him out. He just had to keep his eyes shut. I never felt like Loke was capable of doing anything he wasn't since the fighting festival arc to be honest. I will concede that Scorpio had a significant improvement compared to Tenrou Island with Brandish. But then again, Brandish was purposely holding back against Lucy to deceive Dimaria into thinking that there was actually a fight going on.

I suppose it is time to agree to disagree. Our votes are probably already casted, anyways.

 

[Brandish μ]

Well, it is the exact same scenario as in the manga. Lucy didn't want to, virgo bitch slap sense into her, stellar spirit king gets summoned, shit gets wrecked. Heck, a battle royale is a better scenario than she had when she first summoned the spirit king. She wasn't in a battle royale, she was fighting multiple tartarus demons at the same time.

Yea but the guild was on the line, that level of motivation exceeds this setting. It depends on how you see this scenario playing out. If God Serena/Natsu start to spam, Lucy wouldn't even be in the position to summon a spirit let alone break a key.

I take 2 approaches to Battle Royales - for this one I've opted to split the contestants into battles, and decide who would fall first. The other approach is to factor the amount of different battles that could take place (given it's chaotic), and select the 4 most likely/probable to clear it. In both approaches I'd have Lucy 6th, and she wouldn't summon CSK in either.

If she did summon CSK, she could clear it if I used the same scenario I did for this (she has to beat Mira/Wendy).

 

[(⌐■_■)]

Yo this is a no-brainer
Natsu
Probably gonna steamroll the entire event bar Zeref & Acno
Irene
No need to explain
God Serena
I put him in mid tire Spriggan level
Sting
Low tire Spriggan level (Eat a dic* Lacrhead)

 

[kkck]

Yea but the guild was on the line, that level of motivation exceeds this setting. It depends on how you see this scenario playing out. If God Serena/Natsu start to spam, Lucy wouldn't even be in the position to summon a spirit let alone break a key.

I take 2 approaches to Battle Royales - for this one I've opted to split the contestants into battles, and decide who would fall first. The other approach is to factor the amount of different battles that could take place (given it's chaotic), and select the 4 most likely/probable to clear it. In both approaches I'd have Lucy 6th, and she wouldn't summon CSK in either.

If she did summon CSK, she could clear it if I used the same scenario I did for this (she has to beat Mira/Wendy).

I mean, if she is about to die then the motivation setting is not all that different. Even if lucy would rather literally die than break a key there is the issue that her spirits could as well force or otherwise persuade her.

I would think it is completely fair to just assume her full power which in this case would involve the stellar spirit king. Honestly, if the stellar spirit king comes into the equation beating mira shouldn't be that big an issue either way. Back in the tartarus arc mira struggled with sayla.... Who was by any logic far inferior to mard geer. Lucy managed to fight 3 tartarus members at once... Then summon the stellar spirit king, destroy alegria and finally nuke jackal. That is far more than measly ever did in the arc. Even wendy kinda had a better time with her enemy than mira did back then. Mira is a character whose status has been diminishing through the entirety of the manga. She went from legitimate erza rival to being outdone by good old dragon force wendy and lucy.

Not to mention that lucy doesn't have lag issues when it comes to her magic. It's not fair to assume she is just going to be blitz in a battle. That never happens. And in this unreasonable scenario, lucy gets an extra life from hologrium which should give her the chance to summon anything she needs.

 

[CaptainTorch]

After giving it more thought, I change my place from Sting to Lucy. If Lucy can summon CSK, the neven if he is Mard Geer level he'll give WSDM Sting an extreme difficulty fight. Add Lucy herself with Star Dress, and they barely beat him. Besides, Sting's WSDM most likely has a time limit.

 

[LaGOAT]

Irene blitz Erza because Erza isn't a dragon slayer.

With Wendy, it's different. Her magic directly counters Irene, so it would be a poor move for Irene to activate her dragon form in front of Wendy.


Irene actually admitted that Wendy's body was a downgrade.

And when Wendy took possession of Irene's body, her magical power became a lot stronger.


While Irene may have naturally more power than Wendy, Wendy has better skill than Irene.

That's why Base Wendy was beating Human Irene in the manga.

If you factor in Wendy's DF (which she didn't use against Irene in the manga) and you take into account the super-effectiveness of Wendy's DS magic against Irene's Dragon form, then Wendy would be the clear winner.


I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree.

The way I see it, Wendy outclasses Irene in both her human and dragon form.

In fact, all the Dragon Slayers in this group would outclass Irene's dragon form.

doesn't matter if she a DS if she doesn't give her the time to attack then she finished it's like saying since cobra has hearing magic he no diff any1 cause he hear peoples thought. but we saw that jellal blitzes him. Having an advantage doesn't determine the winner all the time if that the case Tartarus gray>mard geer the wind guy that fought natsu in the beginning of the arc (can't remember his name)>natsu wall>laxus etc. just like my fellow brothers been saying and I was trying to say the same thing too) Wendy enchant erza sword to damage Irene doesn't mean Wendy her self can do the same thing. That's like saying she can damage acno becuase she gotten stronger in the TS. Also Shoutout to @Emperor Spriggan for being this up Irene wasn't at 100% cause she been constantly use Mp all war. Erza and Wendy had time to rest be4 trying to inflate the guild. Irene didn't. Also Wendy did use DF vs Irene. And also was helping erza to increase her strength to even fight on par with Irene. Wendy by herself isn't close to Irene level just becuase she has enchantment.

 

[Nemispelled]

Irene used Universe One and enchanted the whole country, mind you that's her affixing her magic onto the country. After her death, the effets of Universe One were undone. That obviously mean that the whole time she was using her magic to keep the spell in check. All that while moving around within the shrunken continent and:
-Transmuting Hisui.
-Enchanting the Berserker army (keep in mind this was an army of 1 million people (?) ) And she affixed her magic onto each and everyone of them.
-Enchanting Neinhart. Mind you this is a whole other Spriggan, someone on the same team as her, and not a foot soldier like Marin.
-Juliet and Hynhe were her own enchantments, meaning they were also running off her MP.
Erza was healed after every fight, meaning she had time to recover her MP. Wendy had a break of nearly 20 chapters between the Historia Ezel fight and the Irene fight. That's more than enough time to make a full recovery.
She had more MP to start than them by virtue of her being a Spriggan, and the top 2, but ultimately, she started out the fight at less than 100%. The only time this arc she was at 100% is the fight with Acnologia, and you saw how well she performed against him there.

Universe One isn't taxing on Irene's MP. I think people are misunderstanding the way enchantments works.

When Invel casted a blizzard on Magnolia, he wasn't losing any MP afterwards. Same with Ajeel's Sand World. They don't lose MP from changing the environment.

Once a spell is finished being casted, then the wizard can rest. And that's exactly what Irene did. She rested by sitting on the throne at Mercurius Palace.


And enchanting berserkers is enchanting fodders. That's expected of Irene. If she couldn't do that, she shouldn't be a Spriggan. Neinhart is the most fodder example as well. Enchanting fodder Spriggans and soldiers isn't exactly something to be proud of.

All of Irene's enchantments don't cost much MP. If they did, Irene should be smart not to summon them.

Wendy enchants top-tiers like Natsu, Gray, Gajeel, and Erza all the time with her own spells, and she has no problem with it.

Irene should have no excuse enchanting fodders, in my opinion.


And I doubt Erza was in perfect condition. After fighting a Spriggan, she no doubt had some injuries or exhaustion.

Wendy actually fought Dimaria after the Historias. So she still fought a Spriggan like Erza.

The difference here is that Wendy and Erza actually took damage and fought in real fights.

Irene was just mocking the king, bossing people around, and laughing.


If anything, Irene was in as great of a condition as Wendy and Erza were at the beginning of their fight... if not, better.

She doesn't really have any excuse there. Her skill just lacked in performance.

And her pain tolerance has proven to be low.


Her MP wasn't the problem in the fight.

She wasn't magic-deficient or low on magic power.

It was simply her skill.

Wendy countered her magic left and right, several times.

And when Erza destroyed the meteor, Irene stared at Erza's butt for 7 panels straight, which also implies low intelligence.

 

[LaGOAT]

I honestly picked

Irene
Lucy
Natsu
Sting(?)



Celestial Spirit King is beyond Marde Geer level even in Tartarous. Using the excuse that Marde Geer was able to dodge some attacks are stupid because by that same logic Irene would just be Erza and Wendy Level. Unless you are trying to imply Wendy>CSK.

By Combat Feats the CSK trumps everyone in this group and by magical feats Irene trumps everyone.



The Spirits power is correlated with the summoners magic. Not only has it been flat out stated in the manga the stronger the Celestial Wizard becomes the stronger than Spirit becomes it has been shown.

Spoiler

I don't even understand why this is even a debate.

Also Virgo never opened her own gate using her own magic. She opened her gate by herself like Loke but she was still using Lucy's magical power like Loke. Passing through the gate on thier own doesn't mean they are using their own magical power. Look at the Fighting Festival arc when Lucy fought Bicklow. Loke opened his own gate but it was clear as day that he was still using Lucy's magical power as it was stated.

But what's funny with ur argument is this is base mard geer in fact a unserious base mard geer that just playing around. CSK was actually more serious than mard geer and I'm saying that to be lieant that he on mard her lvl cause they have fought in the past.

 

[Nemispelled]

Acnologia had his arm ripped off. If Irene was forced back into human form, it could have been because of dragon slaying magic or her magic exhausting.

Erza's physical state has nothing to do with it. Laxus destroyed Ajeel's tidal wave without moving and can throw city-busters by just raising his hand. Mobility doesn't matter. So long as she can move, broken bones don't amount to anything.

Obvious difference by an individual occurrence? So far, this is the only use of DS magic we've seen on a dragon this arc. For all we know, this could be a testament to both Wendy's DS abilities as well as her enchantments.

How were they all very weak? Natsu soloed shadow drive Rogue and white drive Sting while they were both using Dragon Force. Gajeel could most likely have done the same. Even then, the combined force of Natsu, Gajeel, and Wendy would have been more powerful than present day Wendy. Wendy and Natsu (literally happened last chapter) are able to enter Dragon Force at will. Gajeel still can't, and until they're at Acnologia's level they'll never have master DS magic.

Again, we don't know if she was forced out of her form or if she voluntarily left it, since she was disadvantaged against DS magic.

Show me, literally anywhere in the series, where it's stated they have different thresholds.

Again, show me where Irene has low pain tolerance. The dragon form is her natural state, while the human form is an enchantment by Zeref. If anything, she'd have a lower pain tolerance in the unprotected human form.

Saying "Irene was forced back into human form because her magic was exhausting" proves my point that she is weak...

We've seen Irene revert to Wendy's dragon slaying magic.

So as far as I'm concerned, Wendy can do the same in this match. This is canonically proven.

I don't know why we keep talking about Acnologia, when this match is talking about Irene.

Irene and Acnologia aren't the same. That's my point.

Using Acnologia as an example is pointless.


I don't need to show you that Irene has low pain tolerance.

That's proven when a 95% crippled Erza was able to revert her back to human with a DS-enchanted sword. It's in the manga.

Saying her dragon form is her natural state is meaningless.

Her human form is weak, and that's all that matters.

And her dragon form can be canceled by 5 dragon slayers in this match, so it's useless.

 

[**Silver**]

the power difference between August and Lucy is bigger than Compared to (Tartaros/Lucy and Mard geer) so i cant really understand how Csk is somehow August level???

Mard--->Lucy easy-Medium difficulty
August---->Lucy one-shot

Lucy is below Jura level so how CSK IS AUGUST OR ZEREF LEVEL?